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all 44 comments
[–]narrenburg"Self-hating" man -38 points-39 points-40 points  (2 children)
It's almost as if the Third Reich had started building concentration camps before the war. And it's seems as if there were many camps all over Europe manned by a complex bureaucracy. And it's like the Holocaust is simply a name to refer to the notable use of incinerators, and not everyone was thrown into crematoria.
[–]-unquote-jar of mayonnaise -22 points-23 points-24 points  (0 children)
because fuck research beforehand
[–]NobodyMinus -16 points-17 points-18 points  (0 children)
That's a little misleading: The camps made before the war were actual concentration camps as opposed to death-camps like Treblinka and Auschwitz, and the largest and worst camps were built in occupied Poland (again, Treblinka and Auschwitz). Incinerators weren't introduced until the Soviets discovered the mass graves from the Katyn massacre in 1943, before that they engaged in mass-burials. The Germans only resorted to incinerators when they started to fear discovery.
One of the more disturbing things about the holocaust is that it wasn't this preplanned thing that only four or five people were responsible for coming up with: It evolved as a result of the actions of many, many people.
[–]megadethbobtail -49 points-50 points-51 points  (5 children)
Incineration is so energy intensive that no one in the world is cremated when they die. Plus, steel beams cannot be melted with burning jet fuel, therefore 9/11 was an inside job. Planes didn't even hit the twin towers. It was manipulated by the government media. Just like the holocaust was.
[–]witheld◕‿◕❀ -9 points-10 points-11 points  (3 children)
Cremation takes several hours and does not completely destroy some bones(about an hour per 100lbs on the best equipment). I really don't know how they were burned in 20 minutes as claimed, but I assume those reports of the time specifically are just flawed due to the emotional toll of everyone getting incinerated(what does an hour feel like while standing in line to die?)and no one having a watch
[–]Mqzp -7 points-8 points-9 points  (0 children)
I think the cremation process in a modern crematorium is a bit different than the Nazi camps. It isn't like they gave the ashes over to grieving relatives. They just needed to reduce the corpses enough to be able to get the next load in. 20 minutes is probably referring to the interval between loading.
[–]starmartyr -4 points-5 points-6 points  (0 children)
The 20 minute claim is inaccurate.

BIG FUCKING TRIGGER WARNING:

It took roughly 90 minutes according to the Vrba-Wetzler report, but that was only for those cremations done in industrial ovens. Earlier cremations were simply placing corpses in trenches, dousing them in gasoline, and torching them.
Cremation was generally not used as a method of execution and prisoners did not generally know that they were about to die until just before their execution. Early in the war they were marched to the edge of mass grave pits and shot. When this became too costly and inefficient the gas chambers were developed.
10% of the Jewish men and 5% of the women sent to death camps were put to work. The rest were sent to "showers". They only realized their imminent doom when the gas was released. Three minutes later they were dead.
[–]megadethbobtail -11 points-12 points-13 points  (0 children)
Yeah, I don't either. I just don't know why people can doubt one of the most studied and documented events in history occurred (or so what if it's not exactly 6 million or 12 million or whatever). Their antisemitism is usually showing though.
[–]HumanMilkshake -2 points-3 points-4 points  (0 children)
For some reason I read that in Eric Cartman's voice, and it made the reply much funnier.
[–]kwykwy -65 points-66 points-67 points  (4 children)
Literal holocaust denial bullshit gets 200 upvotes? What the fuck, reddit.
[–]robin-gvx -48 points-49 points-50 points  (2 children)
But they aren't denying anything! They're just asking questions! /s
[–]TortugaNeve2The Keeper of Boobies -24 points-25 points-26 points  (1 child)
[–]narrenburg"Self-hating" man -14 points-15 points-16 points  (0 children)
[–]Spam4119[S] -25 points-26 points-27 points  (0 children)
In particular in the comments surrounded by people going "I can't believe people actually DENY the holocaust!" and this one "sneaks" in.
[–]cordis_melumshilling for BRD all day every day -21 points-22 points-23 points  (2 children)
*FACEPALM*
Not everyone who died in the Holocaust was cremated, damn it! Early on, we actually see mass graves and firing squads! Part of the reason why the Nazis switched to gas chambers was because they didn't want to waste bullets on the Jews! GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
[–]NobodyMinus -12 points-13 points-14 points  (1 child)
It was actually a good deal more gruesome than that: The switch from bullets to gas happened because too many officers were offing themselves over guilt. They first switched to "mobile gas chambers", trucks that vented their exhaust into the section for passengers, in order to ameliorate this effect. The large gas chambers didn't come until later, and were all about exterminating people in larger numbers than was previously possible.
tl;dr: It was much worse than you thought.
[–]cordis_melumshilling for BRD all day every day -7 points-8 points-9 points  (0 children)
Hence, part of the reason, not the whole reason.
But UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
[–]rosconotorigina -4 points-5 points-6 points  (1 child)
Haven't people been cremating remains since long before the Holocaust? Weren't mass cremations carried out with victims of the plague? Doesn't it stand to reason that industrializing the process would use less energy per body than respectfully incinerating each set of remains one by one? Don't places like industrial steel foundries generate temperatures comparable to crematoria and pump out product around the clock? What do they think all those big crematoria at the concentration camps were for? I can't even laugh at this one. This makes so little sense my brain hurts. Why does it have so many upvotes?
[–]SovAtman -4 points-5 points-6 points  (0 children)
Burning bodies is like literally one of the first things sapien species started doing when they discovered fire 1.7 million years ago. We fucking cremate livestock it's so cheap and efficient. The whole struggle is to do less of it because it produces so much pollution.
So yes. The entire premise of the question is so outrageous, that all those upvotes are terrifying. I think when people want their racist, hateful biases confirmed they just literally resist thinking about things.
[–]TortugaNeve2The Keeper of Boobies -33 points-34 points-35 points  (10 children)
why is the Holocaust beyond all free speech and question?
Did /r/conspiracy leak or something??
[–]manhatingthrowaway -36 points-37 points-38 points  (3 children)
Yet doing a feminist critique of video games is literally Nazism.
[–]TortugaNeve2The Keeper of Boobies -12 points-13 points-14 points  (0 children)
[–]SovAtman -3 points-4 points-5 points  (0 children)
but literal nazism is considered reasonable critique.
oh.... my god.
[–]irritatingrobot -15 points-16 points-17 points  (0 children)
When they say Anita Sarkeesian is a nazi what they mean is that she did nothing wrong.
[–]cordis_melumshilling for BRD all day every day -14 points-15 points-16 points  (5 children)
Did /r/conspiracy leak or something??
It's always leaking. You should see the banhammers flying when a post about the Holocaust reaches /r/all in /r/history. It is glorious.
[–]TortugaNeve2The Keeper of Boobies -6 points-7 points-8 points  (4 children)
It was a rhetorical question :P
Of course, that sub is leaking everywhere; some of them even were JAQing off in that Holocaust survivor's AMA.
[–]cordis_melumshilling for BRD all day every day -8 points-9 points-10 points  (3 children)
I know a thread about the Holocaust hits /r/all when I check my mod mail inbox and see "stormfront might be leaking again" as the message header.
Ahh, AutoModerator.
[–]TortugaNeve2The Keeper of Boobies -3 points-4 points-5 points  (2 children)
AutoMod is part of the cabal!!
[–]cordis_melumshilling for BRD all day every day -3 points-4 points-5 points  (1 child)
Duh. Do you see how many subs AM mods?
[–]TortugaNeve2The Keeper of Boobies -3 points-4 points-5 points  (0 children)
[–]Spam4119[S] -15 points-16 points-17 points  (3 children)
I had to edit the comment to fit it into 300 characters (even the one part I was trying to submit). Here is the full comment,
"There is hardly anyone who says it didn't happen. What people have argued is that the numbers were inflated and some of the stories that were taken as facts were exaggerated. For example, one valid question to ask is how the Nazis could have incinerated so many people when incineration is extremely energy intensive and they were already facing resource shortages from the blockade. Incineration on a mass scale is unheard of because of how much energy and resources it would require to carry it out. Even with all the modern technology we have, we cannot afford to incinerate people on a that scale. Regardless of whether you think they could or couldn't have pulled this off, can we agree that it shouldn't be a criminal offense to wonder about things like that? Asking questions like this is a very different thing to saying the Holocaust didn't happen, yet it all gets lumped in with outright Holocaust denial.
What I can't believe is that European countries throw people in jail and fine them for asking these questions, and then turn around and pretend to care about freedom of speech when it comes to printing cartoons demeaning to Muslims. It's not a crime to question the numbers killed by Stalin, or the numbers killed in WW1, or the atrocities committed by difference sides in WW2, why is the Holocaust beyond all free speech and question? The truth doesn't fear questioning, and by making the Holocaust unquestionable (under penalty of law), they actually reinforce the beliefs of conspiracy theorists."
Edit: Notice the lack of any form of sources to anything that is being said combined with lots of weasel words, "what people have argued"
[–]IAmTheShitRedditSaysWill hate cis for op money -11 points-12 points-13 points  (1 child)
Good on you, but the bot will quote the entire comment when it catches up with this submission, you don't have to worry about only having part of the comment in the title
[–]Spam4119[S] -3 points-4 points-5 points  (0 children)
Ah I forgot about the bot. I just wanted to make it especially clear that I really sliced and diced mid sentence and that I wasn't trying to edit it in a way that made it sound particularly bad. Wanted to draw attention that the sentences were really chopped up by me.
[–]soilbran -1 point-2 points-3 points  (0 children)
Holy fuck, I can't believe the poster combined "DAE Muslims are evil" AND holocaust denial in a single post.
[–]crabby_johnThe Content Curmudgeon -22 points-23 points-24 points  (1 child)
Things like the Holocaust happen precisely because freedom of speech is restricted. [+12]
Go Take A Hike Pal !! Go Take A Hike On The Pisscreek Trail, Up Poopcrap Shitmountain In Buttland Open Space Preserve
[–]tangibleghostI FEAST ON THE FREEZED PEACHES OF MINE ENEMIES -6 points-7 points-8 points  (0 children)
Don't forget you're not allowed to bring electronic devices into Mt. Asshole National Wilderness!
[–]8bitdeerJust a math lovin', joy killin' SJW -1 point-2 points-3 points  (0 children)
"how much energy and resources it would require to carry it out" because fuck physics and the fact that the holocaust was not all cremations, am I right, fellas? /s
[–]so_srs -2 points-3 points-4 points  (1 child)
The "r/til or r/conspiracy?" game is getting really tough.
[–]SovAtman -2 points-3 points-4 points  (0 children)
r/today-i-was-awakened-to-the-truth-and-i-am-a-sheep-no-longer-join-me-brothers
[–]thingsjusthappen -0 points-1 point-2 points  (0 children)
Interesting rhetorical question, but goes off the rails with the conspiracy bullshit.
[–][deleted]  (3 children)
[deleted]
    [–]SovAtman -4 points-5 points-6 points  (0 children)
    The basic premise of the question is completely flawed. Mass incineration is extremely energy efficient because the object being incinerated becomes fuel as soon as the fire reaches its initial cremation point.
    We've been burning bodies since we discovered fire. And it's so cheap that it's why we practice cremation on a mass scale for pets and livestock, and why its very popular with humans despite the cultural prevalence of coffin graves.
    In this particular instance the "resources" question is irrelevant because supply-chain problems referred to moving stuff, but fuel wood (and charcoal) literally grew for miles around the camps, and brick/clay was a long-lasting fuel source when used for those purposes.
    Plus the genocide is horrifyingly well documents because the Nazis made such meticulous paper records of all their operations. They used IBM punch card machines to track prisoners at the larger camps.
    What's insane is that the entire analytical core of the original post is so utterly nonsensical and easy to disprove, yet it still manages such a huge number of upvotes. It betrays an anti-semetic bias and that's terrifying.
    [–]IAMAStr8WhtCisManAMA<-- actually hates men[🍰] -2 points-3 points-4 points  (0 children)
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