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Are these chem-trails? (i.imgur.com)

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[–]Drytruth -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (48子コメント)

Condensation trails. They're water vapor and jet engine exhaust.

[–]PatriotsCheatedAgain -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (47子コメント)

If they stay there all day they aren't condensation trails.

[–]dennabebotnoos 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Why would that matter?

[–]Alcorr -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Contrails dissipate fast. Chemtrails do not.

[–]dennabebotnoos 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Source? Because that doesn't make any sense.

The persistence of contrails is entirely related to the conditions (temperature and humidity) at the level they are formed. If conditions are good for cloud formation, then the trails will stick around. If not, they fade.

[–]unkycornfat -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Most all commercial jet engines employ a high bypass ratio now, which effectively render contrails non-existent anymore...

[–]dennabebotnoos 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Source?

[–]unkycornfat -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

" The back pressure at the turbine exit of a high bypass turbofan that maximally converts thermal energy into mechanical energy should be close to ambient pressure (around the engine) because the increased thrust derived from the ducted fan more than compensates the low direct jet propulsive efficiency of such an engine. In a high-bypass turbine engine, the gas turbine uses thermal energy from combustion to turn a ducted fan that slightly increases the velocity of a large amount of air."

Essentially saying the engine requires less combustion to operate the fan at a more efficient rate, because of the ducting around the engine, air coming out of a high bypass turbofan engines is very similar to the conditions of the medium the plane is traveling in. Contrails are generally the result if hot, combusted air coming through the engine. These engines simultaneously call for less combustion, and more cold air to pass through the engine, while gaining thrust from the cooler air.

[–]dennabebotnoos 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Contrails result from water vapor created as a byproduct of burnt fuel. As long as these planes are burning fuel with jet engines, they are capable of creating contrails.

[–]Drytruth 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What makes you think that?!

[–]Alcorr -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Physics. In most cases contrails will dissipate relatively fast.

[–]Drytruth 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So why don't regular cloud dissipate quickly?

[–]King-Hell 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are bullshitting. Contrails are simply artificially created cirrus cloud and they will persist just as long as any other cloud in that area. How long that is depends on temperature, pressure, and humidity, and nothing else.

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    [–]Ibanez7271[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (18子コメント)

    They just look like clouds now

    [–]120z8t 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (17子コメント)

    That is what a contrail is, an artificially created cloud.

    [–]AnonUSCiti -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

    What????? Since when do jet turbines create clouds? LMAO. Wow, contrails definition sure has changed over the years. I feel sorry for ya bud

    [–]King-Hell 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

    Since when do jet turbines create clouds?

    Since the day they were first designed. Jet fuel is very similar to paraffin (kerosene); it is a hydrocarbon. When it burns in air the carbon part combines with oxygen to expand into carbon dioxide gas (CO2) and the hydrogen combines with oxygen to form water (Dihydrogen Monoxide, H2O). These two reactions give off a great deal of heat energy. 1 kilo of aviation fuel combines with oxygen to produce about 1.2 kilos of water which boils instantly into 1,600 litres of superheated steam. It is these rapidly expanding hot gases which push the aircraft forward. At high altitudes the steam will freeze into tiny ice crystals almost instantly. If the air is already saturated with water vapour then these crystals will grow many times in size into snowflakes through a process called deposition and can last for hours or even days in a distinct formation. This is a contrail. It does not require any sinister chemicals to make it form. How long a contrail lasts depends on temperature, pressure, and humidity, and nothing else.

    [–]AnonUSCiti 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    A contrail is NOT a cloud. Two different things. Say all you want, they are not clouds. But let science lead the way for your pathetic life!

    [–]King-Hell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    let science lead the way

    I will. Have fun making up your own reality.

    [–]unkycornfat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

    It was my understanding the advent of the high bypass ratio engines as a side effect render contrails almost non-existent anymore? Can you help me with that?

    [–]King-Hell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    That is not correct. I was a Royal Navy aircraft mechanic so I can tell you with authority that a high bypass gas turbine burns nearly as much hydrocarbon fuel as a pure jet. So it produces nearly as much water vapour. It's the amount of water vapour (humidity) in the ambient atmosphere and the temperature which dictates whether a contrail will be large or small and whether it will disspate or persist and spread acroass the sky.

    [–]unkycornfat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    I see, my understanding was that high bypass ratio releases the air in almost the same conditions as the ambient surroundings, this is how it made sense to me to explain why blatantly liveried passenger jets seemed to have very short trails, which seemed to come directly from the engines and dissipated quickly.

    Whereas when I see simultaneously ~5-6 bright white planes cutting x's and o's in the sky, it seems to start about 50 feet behind the wings, and can be turned on and off at will and stretch for miles. I just don't know what to make of that...

    [–]King-Hell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    However many thousand of photographs of straight-line contrails, criss-cross contrails, and U-turn contrails people post on the Internet, it does not make them chemtrails. In fact, the sheer number of them means they couldn't possibly be part of a conspiracy. Parallel contrails are simply due to pilots on busy routes not wanting to fly directly through the ice plume and turbulence of the aircraft in front, so they fly to one side of it. Air-traffic control frequently makes pilots fly in large oval circuits before slotting them into the landing queue. So why are looping contrails so impossible? Unusual events sometimes happen overhead. One aircraft may be leaving a contrail and another flying with it leaving none. Maybe the military were testing a fuel additive to prevent contrails, because they are a dead giveaway. Contrails may be intermittent. Wet and dry layers of air fold together like a marble cake giving us spectacular mackerel cloud formations. An aircraft flying through alternating wet and dry bands of air would quite naturally leave an intermittent contrail. Aircraft corridors cross, producing criss-cross contrails. There's always at least 1,000 feet vertical separation between them, but it's impossible to estimate relative altitudes from the ground.

    [–]120z8t 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (14子コメント)

    A condensation trail is just an artificially created cloud made from water vapor in the air being condensed. If the conditions are right at the altitude it is at it can stay there a very long time.

    [–]PatriotsCheatedAgain 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    a very long time.

    Ok....but not all day.

    [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]120z8t 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Just because I disagree with the assumption that these are chemtrails does not make me a troll.

      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]King-Hell 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        When did understanding science become "ignorant"?

        [–]120z8t -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Of course not all day, not even naturally formed clouds stay around all day. Go out and watch the sky for a few hours. Clouds pop up and dissolve.

        [–]AnonUSCiti -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        You just keep proving his point more and more...

        [–]scaredshtlessintx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        conditions are right? what are the conditions? because ive taken pics on days from 103F and days when its 30F.....blue skies go to hazy clouds after these trails and stay that way for hours.

        [–]King-Hell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It is always about minus 50 degrees at airliner cruising altitude, regardless of the surface temperature.

        [–]120z8t 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Temperatures on the ground are not the same as high up in the atmosphere.

        what are the conditions?

        The same conditions that sustain naturally formed clouds.

        because ive taken pics on days from 103F and days when its 30F.....blue skies go to hazy clouds after these trails and stay that way for hours.

        That would mostly be because the conditions at that alt were right for sustaining that type of cloud cover and a plane/planes happen to fly through it before the natural clouds formed.

        As for the conditions themselves, clouds form when air is cooled to its dewpoint or the temperature, if the air is cooled, it reaches saturation. Air can reach saturation in a number of ways. The most common way is through lifting.

        As a bubble or parcel of air rises it moves into an area of lower pressure (pressure decreases with height). As this occurs the parcel expands. This requires energy, or work, which takes heat away from the parcel. So as air rises it cools. This is called an adiabatic process.

        The rate at which the parcel cools with increasing elevation is called the "lapse rate". The lapse rate of unsaturated air (air with relative humidity <100%) is 5.4°F per 1000 feet (9.8°C per kilometer). This is called the dry lapse rate. This means for each 1000 feet increase in elevation, the air temperature will decrease 5.4°F. Since cold air can hold less water vapor than warm air, some of the vapor will condense onto tiny clay and salt particles called condensation nuclei. The reverse is also true. As a parcel of air sinks it encounters increasing pressure so it is squeezed inward.

        This adds heat to the parcel so it warms as it sinks. Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air, so clouds tend to evaporate as air sinks.

        [–]scaredshtlessintx -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        very scientific....heard it before.....what kind of plane does that? how come they turn it on and off? how come 2 planes can go almost side by side and only 1 has a contrail across the sky? how come the contrail spreads out, connects with other contrails and forms giant hazy clouds? how can they do it over and around an international airport airspace? you can copy and paste all the science you want...ive sat on my back porch every morning for 15 yrs and what is happening in the skies the last 2+ years you will never convince me its contrails.

        [–]King-Hell 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        ive sat on my back porch every morning for 15 yrs

        There's your problem.... Thinking that if it makes sense to you then it's obviously the right answer. Get off your porch and learn some physics if you want to be taken seriously.

        [–]Drytruth 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Advocating learning? You MONSTER!

        [–]scaredshtlessintx 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        good one.

        [–]Drytruth -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Why not?