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On how we communicate. (self.GamerGhazi)

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[–]rarebittWhy does reality have such a bias against GamerGate? 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (28子コメント)

There is something else that need to be addressed. I've seen people who were concerned with the use of ableist language to describe GG people i.e. calling them crazy, insane, deranged etc.

We should avoid using such epithets. These people are aware of their actions and have agency.

[–]Enleat+1;dr 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We should also avoid any language that might shame someones sex life. That is never okay. It doesn't happen that much, but it is never okay in any measure to virgin shame or slut shame anyone.

GG was started on that, and people need to be better than that.

[–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

absolutely on this as well. there’s a difference between pointing out that someone doesn’t understand a woman’s perspective, and accusing them of owning body pillows because they’ve never touched a woman in their life.

it shames body pillows, it shames people that might have social awkwardness or anxiety, and it reinforces the toxic belief that sex and physical intimacy needs to be put on a pedestal. I can’t even describe how obsessed I was with thinking I was a loser for being a virgin until college when other kids in my school lost it by sophomore year. that’s not healthy, and we don’t need to contribute to that stigma.

[–]Enleat+1;dr 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you so much <3

Agreed with absolutely everything you said. I was also bullied and shamed for being socially awkward, especially around girls. My social awkwardness and lack of experience led to some uncomfortable moments, and still does.

It is simply never ever okay to insult someone based on their sex life.

[–]MarioNecromancer 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Deluded? Stupid? In denial? Self-deceptive? Which negative psychological descriptors are okay and which are ableist?

I'm genuinely asking, because I'm genuinely not sure.

[–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don’t really think deluded is ableist, because people can be fooled without being mentally ill. stupid I don’t really think is ableist because you can lack common sense without being mentally ill. same thing with self-deceptive.

but stuff like “wow this person is a psychopath” “wow what a crazy fucker” “wow this person needs to be in a psych ward” is harmful in my opinion because, obviously, we’re not psychiatrists in a position to diagnose anyone and, obviously, someone being mentally ill doesn’t mean they’re prone to bad behavior.

[–]MarioNecromancer 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cool. I had to look up "deluded" to be sure it isn't a psychiatric term. Apparently it really just means "deceived" which isn't quite what I thought.

I'm just going to keep calling gators stupid and evil.

[–]rarebittWhy does reality have such a bias against GamerGate? 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Isn't a deluded person somebody who's suffering from delusions which isn't necessarily a mental illness?

[–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

impose a misleading belief upon (someone); deceive; fool: too many theorists have deluded the public | (as adj. deluded) : the poor deluded creature.

that’s deluded and

an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder: the delusion of being watched. • the action of deluding someone or the state of being deluded: what a capacity television has for delusion.

that’s delusion

so yeah, technically delusion could be associated with mental illness. I don’t know for sure how to approach this one, because a delusion isn’t a requirement of mental illness, as someone can still hold a belief that is completely wrong in all regards (“black people are dumber than white people genetically”) without having to be mentally ill to believe so.

but at the same time, it has the association.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

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    [–][削除されました]  (0子コメント)

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      [–]NeonBlack666 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (16子コメント)

      Wait, we can't use words like crazy? Ok...this really is kind of like saying we can't use the word stupid cause it's offensive to stupid people.

      I mean, is it possible people are reading too much into words?

      [–]rarebittWhy does reality have such a bias against GamerGate? 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Ok...this really is kind of like saying we can't use the word stupid cause it's offensive to stupid people.

      Menatal illness is real and is a serious thing and is very different that somebody saying something outrageous. "Stupid" on the other hand isn't.

      [–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (14子コメント)

      this really is kind of like saying we can't use the word stupid cause it's offensive to stupid people.

      nobody has said that. please stop making that comparison and address the point at hand. please tell us exactly why you think calling someone “crazy” is an ok insult that doesn’t associate bad behavior with being mentally ill.

      [–]NeonBlack666 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (13子コメント)

      It is the same thing.

      You could say stupid is offensive to people who are mentally handicapped.

      Just like some people here seem to think crazy is offensive towards people who have mental disorders.

      Crazy, nutty, insane, deranged, demented. It's weird to take offense at those things and then say that it's ok to use other words like stupid or idiotic. Which have the same same dictionary definitions...

      I'm pretty sure when someone calls someone crazy they don't mean "This person has depression and all people who have depression is a horrible person". Or insert any other mental illness.

      That is bringing the option of words down to a whole new level where it's like, ok what can we say anymore?

      [–]CirceMoonLiterally Whom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Words like "crazy" and "stupid" have become such a part of the vernacular that they are often not used to refer to intelligence or mental illness. When I say, "Prices at that store were crazy!" I mean that the prices were outside the normal realm of expectation. It has nothing to do with mental illness. Or, "That burrito was crazy good. It was insanely, stupidly good," again has nothing to do with mental illness or intelligence.

      I think that the other uses of these words should be recognized and a person shouldn't be virtually tarred and feathered for their use. It irritates me to no end (and prevents me from commenting or even reading the comments) that people on WHTM dogpile anyone who uses the word "crazy" in any capacity. If Ghazi starts doing so also, well... maybe I will need to do the same thing.

      [–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

      lacking intelligence or common sense: I was stupid enough to think she was perfect. • dazed and unable to think clearly: apprehension was numbing her brain and making her stupid. • informal used to express exasperation or boredom: she told him to stop messing with his stupid painting. noun informal a stupid person (often used as a term of address): you’re not a coward, stupid!

      I don’t see how being stupid has anything to do with being mentally handicapped.

      mentally deranged, especially as manifested in a wild or aggressive way: Stella went crazy and assaulted a visitor | a crazy grin. • extremely annoyed or angry: the noise they made was driving me crazy. • foolish: it was crazy to hope that good might come out of this mess. 2 extremely enthusiastic: I'm crazy about Cindy | a football-crazy bunch of boys. 3 (of an angle) appearing absurdly out of place or in an unlikely position: the monument leaned at a crazy angle. • archaic (of a ship or building) full of cracks or flaws; unsound or shaky. noun (pl. crazies) chiefly N. Amer. a mentally deranged person.

      yes, crazy can be offensive towards people with mental illness.

      Crazy, nutty, insane, deranged, demented. It's weird to take offense at those things and then say that it's ok to use other words like stupid or idiotic. Which have the same same dictionary definitions...

      then my dictionary must be broken.

      why are you so intent on using these words? why is this such an issue for you? this is the exact same logic used to defend the usage of “fag” and “gay” as insults. “but I don’t mean gay people are bad! it’s all about the intent!”

      if you take offense to the mods wanting to improve this community by reducing our usage of tired out language that serves no purpose but to imply someone doesn’t have control of their faculties, you’re free to not participate here.

      I’m not arguing this point any further. another mod can do so if they feel up to it.

      [–]NeonBlack666 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (10子コメント)

      then my dictionary must be broken.

      Idiot means a mentally handicapped person and has been used medically to mean that.

      why are you so intent on using these words? why is this such an issue for you? this is the exact same logic used to defend the usage of “fag” and “gay” as insults. “but I don’t mean gay people are bad! it’s all about the intent!”

      Personally I don't see the comparison. Sorry but I think this is one of those things where people are way over thinking something and applying their own emotions to something where they don't exist. I've never in my life heard that the word crazy is offensive.

      Unless someone said, "I have depression" and then someone immediately said "You are crazy then". Otherwise, I'm not following this logic at all.

      I'm sorry but I can see being a store and saying "that's faggy" and having the clerk look at me like I'm a dick. But if I said "that's crazy" no one would ever flinch.

      if you take offense to the mods wanting to improve this community by reducing our usage of tired out language that serves no purpose but to imply someone doesn’t have control of their faculties, you’re free to not participate here.

      I see it as very heavy handed. You ask for some feedback, tell me to elaborate on what I meant about comparing stupid/crazy, I do and then you tell me to get lost?

      I’m not arguing this point any further. another mod can do so if they feel up to it.

      Again, you asked me to elaborate. So I did. I'm definitely not trying to force you to reply or stress you out. I'm just explaining what I mean and obviously have some disagreements about some things. I don't expect anything to be catered to me personally but I felt the need to reply to some things.

      [–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Sorry but I think this is one of those things where people are way over thinking something and applying their own emotions to something where they don't exist. I've never in my life heard that the word crazy is offensive.

      well you’ve heard it from me, someone who’s tried to kill themselves three times in the last two years and refused to seek psychiatric help for years because I didn’t want to be called “crazy.”

      is that good enough for you? that someone was personally affected by the stigma of people using the word “crazy” to apply to anything bad they don’t like?

      [–]CuppaCi'm a women are cool people! 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I'm also affected by mental illness. I've been hospitalised, I've dealt with it for a very long time, psychotic symptoms and mood symptoms and all the other fun junk. While 'crazy' doesn't bother me as much as some epithets, it does bother me when I see people trying to defend their use of that language desperately in the face of fellow mentally ill people going "please don't do that". And there are definitely other people reading this right now who are affected by the root stigmas of 'stupid' or 'idiotic', too. We exist! We just don't say stuff most of the time because whenever we try, people say, 'god, what epithets are we even allowed to use any more, you're taking all the fun out of it'.

      [–]NeonBlack666 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      And there are definitely other people reading this right now who are affected by the root stigmas of 'stupid' or 'idiotic', too.

      That's kind of what I mean. There really isn't a difference. I know people who hate the word stupid.

      I know others don't agree and you don't agree but I think these words are very different than the racial/sexual slurs we've been trying to avoid in this sub.

      [–]CuppaCi'm a women are cool people! 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      There's a wide gulf in acceptance of racial/sexual slurs as bad and of ablist slurs as bad. (And of awareness of ableism in general.) I get that! It just kinda gets me down when someone goes "this bothers me" and gets a lot of "yeah but that's what everyone says" in return. I sometimes use those words, too, because I grew up with them (amongst other slurs), I get that changing your insults is a tough thing to do. But it gets a bit tiring to hear "it's ridiculous to care about these words" when someone actually tries to talk about it after a while.

      Anyhow, I should get back to lurking. i generally don't comment at all because of anxiety, which is hilarious in context

      (edit: oh yes i remembered how public commenting works: 'it's ridiculous to care about this' etc is hyperbole on my end, i'm not saying that's what you actually said; that's more a reflection on me thinking about how these conversations go in general. sorry!)

      [–]NeonBlack666 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I'm sorry about what you've been through. But I still think you are seeing something that's not there. Some of these words are so extremely common and used daily by people that they are even used on situations: "That was crazy what happened last night".

      Maybe I'm outside of a lot of internet circles but other than this thread, I've never heard any of these terms (crazy, deluded, insane) be declared as not PC.

      Many people are sensitive to words being used directly on them and if we were on a one on one I would never call you any of those words. I just think it's different on an online board where we talking about some wacky ass events and some words that are very common are bound to be used.

      But in any case, I know I can't convince you to not be offended.

      [–]HobbieKBeta Mangina White Knight 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Also as an actually Mentally Ill person, I find myself calling things "Crazy" or "Insane" all the time.

      I think Crazy doesn't bother me as much as insane does. And I think you should never use such words to describe actually mentally ill people.

      I think many people on KIA are completely fucking nuts. I think the guy who made that anti-feminism poster that appeared on We Hunted the Mammoth must be absolutely out of his mind to have written something like that.

      Maybe I have ableist language privileges because I am mentally ill though. I can say these words, but you abled bodied people can't.

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        [–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        we were talking bout the word ‘stupid’ and now you’re bringing up the word idiot which neither of us mentioned.

        no. you’re moving the goalposts already.

        I’ve said all I want to on this and am stepping away from this thread.

        [–]NeonBlack666 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Crazy, nutty, insane, deranged, demented. It's weird to take offense at those things and then say that it's ok to use other words like stupid or idiotic. Which have the same same dictionary definitions...

        I did definitely use the word idiot.

        [–][削除されました]  (0子コメント)

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          [–]lifestyledSardonic Jester of Woe[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          oh absolutely, and I think that goes without saying. I’ve never liked referring to them as being mentally ill because of the association that “this is what mentally ill people do”.