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Democracy in Europe [960x747] (i.imgur.com)

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[–]RamblinRambo3 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Sweden where people get hunted down, harassed and fired for belonging to the wrong party should not be even close to the top.

[–]gefroy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (16子コメント)

I am not Swedish but are you talking about sverige demokraterna? Heard some rumours after last swedish elections that they didn't get all spots for standing commitees what they had right to as third largest party. Not sure about those but heard such rumours.

[–]RamblinRambo3 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Yes. Unions are kicking out people for having the wrong party membership, media calls employers asking why they have employees with a membership in the party and the list goes on. It's complete and utter harassment of people in a way that goes against any basic principles of democracy.

The government gives funds to an organisation named EXPO which hunts down people for posting wrong opinions online, the press shares them and so forth. Then we have the "presstöd" which is a government grant to newspapers "too big to fail" keeping them straight in the pocket of the political leadership.

Sweden also has the law "hets mot folkgrupp" that protects everyone against "agitation speech" but the Swedes themselves. What happened to the basic democratic principle of everyone being equal in the eyes of the law? As this wasn't enough the previous government amended the Swedish constitution in silence without making any fuss about it before it was already done.

The last elections truly showed the undemocratic state of Sweden. The third largest party is frozen out with a alliance of all other parties with the only aim to block any talks of the change a huge chunk of Swedes want to see.

Calling Sweden a democracy is a joke and an insult to anyone who truly believes in a free society where the people get to decide, where they can express themselves without persecution and belong to a party of their choice.

[–]KrukigTomte 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're confusing Democracy with other things.

  1. Hets mot folkgrupp exists in a host of other countries, not only Sweden (Norway, Denmark, Germany for example) and it also has nothing to do with democracy.
  2. So parties working together is now "undemocratic"? They are allowed to freeze out a single party if they do not want them to influence anything. As long as the Sweden Democrats have less than 175 mandates in the Parliament other parties can do whatever they want together.

[–]RamblinRambo3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hets mot folkgrupp exists in a host of other countries, not only Sweden (Norway, Denmark, Germany for example) and it also has nothing to do with democracy.

Free speech very much is the very foundation upon which democracy is built. Arguing against that is ridiculous. Germany and their laws suppressing free speech are not better. But Sweden is by fart the worst non Eastern European country when it comes to this.

So parties working together is now "undemocratic"?

Yes when it undermines the people in an absurd way as in Sweden. You don't need to look further than Denmark to find fellow politicians voicing worry about the situation in Sweden.

[–]xetal1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

tl;dr people like OP think it's undemocratic that the Sweden Democrats who got 12,8% in last election don't get to decide everything.

Media has been pretty hard on them yes, but calling it a persecution is ridiculous.

[–]RamblinRambo3 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (9子コメント)

tl;dr /u/xetal1 thinks it's democratic to persecute people for their political opinions.

A question for the rest of you. Do you think it's democratic to loose your job for being a member of a party that has representation in the parliament? Do you think laws should threat all citizens equally? Do you think the government should be allowed to compromise the media through financial means? Do you think it is democratic to change the constitution of a country while doing everything to keep it silenced until it's done? Do you think it is democratic for the government to fund organisations who through criminal means track down, publicly expose people who do not share the opinions of the political elite?

All of the above is what's going on in Sweden. Now ask yourself: Is Sweden democratic?

My answer is no.

[–]xetal1 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

A question for the rest of you. Do you think it's democratic to loose your job for being a member of a party that has representation in the parliament?

Yes it has happened that people have lost job/union because of political opinion which is regrettable and despicable but fortunately these are rather isolated instances, you make it seem like it's systematical.

Do you think laws should threat all citizens equally?

They do. Please give valid examples as to back up why you think they don't.

Do you think the government should be allowed to compromise the media through financial means?

Compromise? More like support it, all bigger news platforms get funding support on equal terms.

Do you think it is democratic for the government to fund organisations who through criminal means track down, publicly expose people who do not share the opinions of the political elite?

No, I agree with you that funds to organizations such as EXPO might come cross as wrong and should be revised.

All of the above is what's going on in Sweden. Now ask yourself: Is Sweden democratic?

While it's not perfect it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem. Also keep in mind that the map above is a relative scale; all the problems you described exist and are usually even worse in almost any other country.

[–]RamblinRambo3 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yes it has happened that people have lost job/union because of political opinion which is regrettable and despicable but fortunately these are rather isolated instances, you make it seem like it's systematical.

It is systematic. Just a few months ago a the Transport union went out and officially announced that they'll kick out any member from the union that is a member of SD: http://www.vf.se/nyheter/forshaga/sdare-utesluts-av-transport

And it's not the first case. It very much is systematic and it's been going on for years. As early as in 2006 a teacher got fired for being a member of SD: http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/sparkad-for-sina-asikter/

So don't come bullshitting around that it's not systematic.

They do. Please give valid examples as to back up why you think they don't.

They don't. A few years after the law was passed the Attorney General said the following:

...syftet vid tillkomsten av straffstadgandet om hets mot folkgrupp var att tillförsäkra minoritetsgrupper av skilda sammansättningar och bekännare av olika trosuppfattningar ett rättsskydd. Det fallet att någon uttrycker kritik mot svenskar torde inte ha varit avsett att träffas av straffstadgandet

Translated to English:

The aim at the advent of the law against agitation was to ensure minority groups of different compositions and confessors of different faiths legal protection. In the case where someone expressing criticism of the Swedes it is beyond the scope of the law

So again don't try to bullshit around the issue. That law has time and time again been confirmed to give special treatment to everyone except for native Swedes. At this point I might add that I'm not a Swede and I still think that law is beyond fucked up and undemocratic.

More like support it, all bigger news platforms get funding support on equal terms.

If the media relies on the government to survive it will please the government. Denying that it isn't the fact is to be honest way beyond delusional, it's outright stupid.

No, I agree with you that organizations like EXPO should not receive funds from the government.

So you agree that Sweden isn't a democracy and that it gives funds to organisations that persecute people who hold the wrong opinion.

While it's not perfect it's not nearly as bad as you make it seem.

It's exactly as bad as I say it is and I've proved it. The fact is that 99 % of Swedens don't get it because they live in that very lie. As someone who sees expat Swedes on a daily basis the current state of Swedish democracy is a constant talking point. All of them have one thing in common. They say that it took them a few years of living abroad to realise how fucked up it all is "back home".

[–]Nimonic -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Calling Sweden a democracy is a joke

I was going to point out what ridiculous hyperbole this is, until I realized you're a mod at /r/european.

Carry on.

[–]RamblinRambo3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you fail to argue the point.