53 replies to this topic

[Library Cat]

I noticed this article when I signed into MSN today, and was curious to see what some of you might think of it.

http://moms.today.co...chool?GT1=43001

The school bans all toys and books that reinforce gender stereotypes and discourages addressing other people as "him" or "her". They say their goal is to create a genderless world.

Personally, I think they're way overboard, but I wanted to hear from other people.

[The Great WTF]

Creating a genderless world seems a little too over-the-top for my taste. Removing gender stereotype is one thing, but creating a genderless world while people still have obvious defined gender is silly. I love the idea of a school that does not teach that girls play with barbie dolls and boys play with cars. I really love the idea of a school that is accepting of gender neutral people and ideas, but shoving gender neutrality down a child's throat is, to me, no better than forcing gender stereotypes.

[Kestin]

I'm going to get lynched for this, but I would honestly kill to have gone to that preschool. And if I ruled the world, I would make sure everyone went to one just like it. The next generation needs to be taught that people are people first. I always have said that the only way to fully make the world an equal place is to remove distinctions from people's minds, and that needs to start in early childhood or it will be locked in there forever. So if every kid in the world starts out not knowing about gender roles, prejudice (which is currently inevitable) will be reduced to .01% of what it is now.

Extreme measures need to be taken to flush bias from the mind. Education on differences and how everyone is equal isn't enough; people need to start out not realizing these things at all.

[Beta]

It may be a bit extreme, however they should continue to prevent enforcing gender roles on students, and allow students to express themselves freely in that manner.

[Knight Mayor]

I think they have good intentions, but that it's a little extreme, especially the book banning.

Furthermore, if children in the school do happen to identify as (fe)male, it should be allowed to address them with (s)he.

I personally wouldn't mind going to a school like that, though, because I wouldn't be called (s)he anymore.

[D.J.]

I agree's (am I trying to be a Lolcat?) with Strawberry. I would pay so much to go in a gender-neutral school .Yes I did mean a gender-neutral school. A school were you could be a girl, a boy or a genderqueer person (Sorry, but I didn't know what else to call it). I think that it's kinda wrong to force genderless stereotypes on kids. You shouldn't force anything like that on people.

[`Silver]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

[Member 35376]

As I live in Sweden I can make at least a comment about this. Ehh.. not gonna be long. The situation in Sweden concerning these things (connected with feminism) is... and this is my highly personal opinion.. extraordinary complex. That is my comment!

[never odd or even]

as a wild tomboy kid, i wanted to be a boy up until a year or two ago (i'm nearly 19 now) identifying with masculinity was important to me, and i needed that, without the prejudice that went with it.

so i'm all in support, but i dont think they should stop enforce only gender neutrality, but encorporating the entire spectrum in between as part of the education.

however, i do very much approve of the abolishment of cinderella why are there no boy stories like that other that fucking prince charming? or any girl stories that isnt snow white?

i pity the kids that will get lynched by meat headed brat kids who persecute anyone smaller of different than them simply because a girl acts like a BOY or a boy acts like a GIRL. POOH!! i can surely live without that!

[Raccoonwolf]

That article is exxagerating everything; I've read a few others, and they're not "banning" gender. They have both "boys'-" and "girls' toys", and the anatomically correct dolls etc. are so because they're not trying to deny the biological differences. I don't know whether they're going too far, because there isn't much information, and all the articles I read were against the idea from the start.
I wish there was a TV documentary about this, because then there'd be better information. Still, I don't think they're telling the kids "genders don't exist" or "you can choose whatever gender"; they're letting the children do whatever they want regardless of their gender.
About the books, I guess it'd be nice if they had cinderella and stuff, but I'm pretty sure they'll hear traditional stories from their parents, and if they don't, they're not missing anything important in my opinion. Who actually thinks Sleeping Beauty is a great piece of literature?

[Deremna]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

[WhatGhost]

While I do think it's great that kids are given the opportunity to not be limited by gender stereotypes, I think it should be an individual's choice and not something that a school regulates. That said, it would be cool to go to a school that accepts people from all across the gender spectrum, so I do think the intentions are good.

[The Vampire Queen]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

Yes. This is the way I was brought up. I had both Barbies and Hot Wheels and wore both boy and girl clothes. I was never taught to "act like a girl", but I was taught to simply "use good manners". I know my parents did not intend to raise me as a genderless individual, but that's how I turned out. Identity should be discovered over time, not instilled from childhood.

[D.J.]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

Yes. This is the way I was brought up. I had both Barbies and Hot Wheels and wore both boy and girl clothes. I was never taught to "act like a girl", but I was taught to simply "use good manners". I know my parents did not intend to raise me as a genderless individual, but that's how I turned out. Identity should be discovered over time, not instilled from childhood.

When I was younger (8-10 years. I don't remember how old) my father told me that I shouldn't do some stuff because I was a girl (I can't remember what it was). Then I asked him why me being a girl had anything to do with the case. Then he answered that it was more because I was wearing a dress/skirt. I do remember that he didn't tell me anything when I was wearing pants.

[The Great WTF]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

Yes. This is the way I was brought up. I had both Barbies and Hot Wheels and wore both boy and girl clothes. I was never taught to "act like a girl", but I was taught to simply "use good manners". I know my parents did not intend to raise me as a genderless individual, but that's how I turned out. Identity should be discovered over time, not instilled from childhood.

When I was younger (8-10 years. I don't remember how old) my father told me that I shouldn't do some stuff because I was a girl (I can't remember what it was). Then I asked him why me being a girl had anything to do with the case. Then he answered that it was more because I was wearing a dress/skirt. I do remember that he didn't tell me anything when I was wearing pants.

I remember my parents telling me not to flips or jump out of the swing in a dress because people could see my underwear, that's about it. Well, that and "Please, for the love of God, don't wear anything white if you're going to be playing in the mud." For some reason I always wanted to wear my best dresses for playing in the mud.

My teachers, though... oooh. That was nasty. My kindergarten teacher outright told me once that because I was a girl I should be playing with dolls with the other girls and not "bothering" the boys by wanting to play dinosaurs with them. Granted, that was the same teacher that wrote me off as a dumb blonde.

[D.J.]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

Yes. This is the way I was brought up. I had both Barbies and Hot Wheels and wore both boy and girl clothes. I was never taught to "act like a girl", but I was taught to simply "use good manners". I know my parents did not intend to raise me as a genderless individual, but that's how I turned out. Identity should be discovered over time, not instilled from childhood.

When I was younger (8-10 years. I don't remember how old) my father told me that I shouldn't do some stuff because I was a girl (I can't remember what it was). Then I asked him why me being a girl had anything to do with the case. Then he answered that it was more because I was wearing a dress/skirt. I do remember that he didn't tell me anything when I was wearing pants.

I remember my parents telling me not to flips or jump out of the swing in a dress because people could see my underwear, that's about it. Well, that and "Please, for the love of God, don't wear anything white if you're going to be playing in the mud." For some reason I always wanted to wear my best dresses for playing in the mud.

My teachers, though... oooh. That was nasty. My kindergarten teacher outright told me once that because I was a girl I should be playing with dolls with the other girls and not "bothering" the boys by wanting to play dinosaurs with them. Granted, that was the same teacher that wrote me off as a dumb blonde.

WTF indeed.

[Rivan Vox]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

Yes. This is the way I was brought up. I had both Barbies and Hot Wheels and wore both boy and girl clothes. I was never taught to "act like a girl", but I was taught to simply "use good manners". I know my parents did not intend to raise me as a genderless individual, but that's how I turned out. Identity should be discovered over time, not instilled from childhood.

When I was younger (8-10 years. I don't remember how old) my father told me that I shouldn't do some stuff because I was a girl (I can't remember what it was). Then I asked him why me being a girl had anything to do with the case. Then he answered that it was more because I was wearing a dress/skirt. I do remember that he didn't tell me anything when I was wearing pants.

I remember my parents telling me not to flips or jump out of the swing in a dress because people could see my underwear, that's about it. Well, that and "Please, for the love of God, don't wear anything white if you're going to be playing in the mud." For some reason I always wanted to wear my best dresses for playing in the mud.

My teachers, though... oooh. That was nasty. My kindergarten teacher outright told me once that because I was a girl I should be playing with dolls with the other girls and not "bothering" the boys by wanting to play dinosaurs with them. Granted, that was the same teacher that wrote me off as a dumb blonde.

When I was little, I pranced about in a pink fairy outfit swishing my magic and wand and singing "someday my prince will come!" in crowded supermarkets.

At preschool, I cried when the boy crushed a ladybug while I was looking at it, was scared by that Dr.Seuss book about the haunted pants, and wouldn't make halloween candy spiders because they were too scary. I also played blocks with pretty much any and all.

In kindergarten we had blocks, and we played outside. I only had a half-day of kindergarten, so I spent most of my days playing adventurers with my friends. Now that I think about it, there wasn't much gender going on when I grew up.. except the older girls liked it when I did certain stuff to them, which I only realize several years into the future was some pretty heavy sexual petting. I was just liked 'weird, what bit them to make them so itchy there?"

[The Great WTF]

When I was little, I pranced about in a pink fairy outfit swishing my magic and wand and singing "someday my prince will come!" in crowded supermarkets.

At preschool, I cried when the boy crushed a ladybug while I was looking at it, was scared by that Dr.Seuss book about the haunted pants, and wouldn't make halloween candy spiders because they were too scary. I also played blocks with pretty much any and all.

In kindergarten we had blocks, and we played outside. I only had a half-day of kindergarten, so I spent most of my days playing adventurers with my friends. Now that I think about it, there wasn't much gender going on when I grew up.. except the older girls liked it when I did certain stuff to them, which I only realize several years into the future was some pretty heavy sexual petting. I was just liked 'weird, what bit them to make them so itchy there?"

You're like... the polar opposite of what I was when I was a kid. *would have beat up anyone who hurt a bug in front of me*

That's... wow. I've heard of kids experimenting, but wtf?

[Rivan Vox]

When I was little, I pranced about in a pink fairy outfit swishing my magic and wand and singing "someday my prince will come!" in crowded supermarkets.

At preschool, I cried when the boy crushed a ladybug while I was looking at it, was scared by that Dr.Seuss book about the haunted pants, and wouldn't make halloween candy spiders because they were too scary. I also played blocks with pretty much any and all.

In kindergarten we had blocks, and we played outside. I only had a half-day of kindergarten, so I spent most of my days playing adventurers with my friends. Now that I think about it, there wasn't much gender going on when I grew up.. except the older girls liked it when I did certain stuff to them, which I only realize several years into the future was some pretty heavy sexual petting. I was just liked 'weird, what bit them to make them so itchy there?"

You're like... the polar opposite of what I was when I was a kid. *would have beat up anyone who hurt a bug in front of me*

That's... wow. I've heard of kids experimenting, but wtf?

one day the girl found out about sex and wanted to try it out with me (she was at the age where you go to sex ed, i guess) and I was like "What's Sex?" and then I went home because something in my head told me I didn't want that. Sorta regret that decision, I wonder if I would have realized my aceness earlier.

[D.J.]

When I was little, I pranced about in a pink fairy outfit swishing my magic and wand and singing "someday my prince will come!" in crowded supermarkets.

At preschool, I cried when the boy crushed a ladybug while I was looking at it, was scared by that Dr.Seuss book about the haunted pants, and wouldn't make halloween candy spiders because they were too scary. I also played blocks with pretty much any and all.

In kindergarten we had blocks, and we played outside. I only had a half-day of kindergarten, so I spent most of my days playing adventurers with my friends. Now that I think about it, there wasn't much gender going on when I grew up.. except the older girls liked it when I did certain stuff to them, which I only realize several years into the future was some pretty heavy sexual petting. I was just liked 'weird, what bit them to make them so itchy there?"

You're like... the polar opposite of what I was when I was a kid. *would have beat up anyone who hurt a bug in front of me*

That's... wow. I've heard of kids experimenting, but wtf?

one day the girl found out about sex and wanted to try it out with me (she was at the age where you go to sex ed, i guess) and I was like "What's Sex?" and then I went home because something in my head told me I didn't want that. Sorta regret that decision, I wonder if I would have realized my aceness earlier.

What! In kindergarten?!

[Rivan Vox]

When I was little, I pranced about in a pink fairy outfit swishing my magic and wand and singing "someday my prince will come!" in crowded supermarkets.

At preschool, I cried when the boy crushed a ladybug while I was looking at it, was scared by that Dr.Seuss book about the haunted pants, and wouldn't make halloween candy spiders because they were too scary. I also played blocks with pretty much any and all.

In kindergarten we had blocks, and we played outside. I only had a half-day of kindergarten, so I spent most of my days playing adventurers with my friends. Now that I think about it, there wasn't much gender going on when I grew up.. except the older girls liked it when I did certain stuff to them, which I only realize several years into the future was some pretty heavy sexual petting. I was just liked 'weird, what bit them to make them so itchy there?"

You're like... the polar opposite of what I was when I was a kid. *would have beat up anyone who hurt a bug in front of me*

That's... wow. I've heard of kids experimenting, but wtf?

one day the girl found out about sex and wanted to try it out with me (she was at the age where you go to sex ed, i guess) and I was like "What's Sex?" and then I went home because something in my head told me I didn't want that. Sorta regret that decision, I wonder if I would have realized my aceness earlier.

What! In kindergarten?!

Yeah?

[The Great WTF]

When I was little, I pranced about in a pink fairy outfit swishing my magic and wand and singing "someday my prince will come!" in crowded supermarkets.

At preschool, I cried when the boy crushed a ladybug while I was looking at it, was scared by that Dr.Seuss book about the haunted pants, and wouldn't make halloween candy spiders because they were too scary. I also played blocks with pretty much any and all.

In kindergarten we had blocks, and we played outside. I only had a half-day of kindergarten, so I spent most of my days playing adventurers with my friends. Now that I think about it, there wasn't much gender going on when I grew up.. except the older girls liked it when I did certain stuff to them, which I only realize several years into the future was some pretty heavy sexual petting. I was just liked 'weird, what bit them to make them so itchy there?"

You're like... the polar opposite of what I was when I was a kid. *would have beat up anyone who hurt a bug in front of me*

That's... wow. I've heard of kids experimenting, but wtf?

one day the girl found out about sex and wanted to try it out with me (she was at the age where you go to sex ed, i guess) and I was like "What's Sex?" and then I went home because something in my head told me I didn't want that. Sorta regret that decision, I wonder if I would have realized my aceness earlier.

What! In kindergarten?!

Yeah?

Stranger things have happened. I'm guessing you come from an area where they take the 'the younger they learn, the better' stance with sex ed.

[Marionetta]

The thing is, girls and boys are different. It's one thing teaching them to treat people as people but another to pretend genders don't exist because they are, in turn, forcing that upon them like they claim stereotypes are.
If a girl wants to dress up in a frilly pink dress and play with dolls, they are basically telling her "no, that's not genderless enough".

Look, some kids wanna act like their stereotypical gender. What's wrong with that? Nothing.

Personally, when I was growing up, I played with dolls, and I played with some boys toys as well.
Mostly they were small toys that got lost in my closet. Personally, i was more concerned with watching TV growing up. Oh people tried to get me to interact with others (before I found out about TV) and go play outside or play with toys. I was never interested.
So really, i didn't have much interaction with either gender growing up. I liked what I liked. Most of what I liked did not involve anything genderless.

That being said the only real time i interacted with anyone was a at daycare when DBZ came on and every time, one guy would always mention the fact only one girl was in the room.
However, I also interacted with girls when we decided to watch Sailor Moon... and then older guys came in and started being perverts during the transformation scenes.

...Basically, just let the kids be kids and teach them to respect others. Let them be themselves, don't force them to be genderless or stereotypical. Just teach them reading, writing, science, and math.

[Goldfish]

I believe their intentions are good but they're taking it the wrong way. It would be better to teach children that gender roles are stereotypes by giving them both typically masculine and typically feminine toys, not neither. Then they can choose whether they want to identify as male, female, both or neither, very simply.

This. Also letting them ID as whatever gender they want. I can't really see this being good for transkids honestly, if they're anything other than genderless, since this is yet another place where people don't refer to them by the right gender.

[Antares]

Expecting people to identify as genderless because you raise them without typically gendered words and objects it ridiculous - these kids are going to HAVE gender identities, and simply by majority probability, most if not all of them are going to be gendered, not genderless. Teaching kids that things like toys and clothes and ways of acting aren't inherently gendered is good, as is avoiding pronouns until the children can decide which pronouns they want used for themselves. But thinking that you've removed gender stereotypes and have therefore removed gender is just... wrong and bad.

[Nathan Blair]

Creating a genderless world is probably impossible, but disproving stereotypes? Sounds great to me.

[Porygon]

Man. I honestly feel like my childhood would have been a hell of a lot better if I had gone to a preschool like this one.

[Nathan Blair]

Man. I honestly feel like my childhood would have been a hell of a lot better if I had gone to a preschool like this one.

I agree ><

[henshin]

This looks awesome. This is the right way to teach children about how little gender matters to who you are. You can't give a 3 year old a talk about gender stereotypes. They are like sponges and absorb everything, if what they are absrobing is gender neutral then that is what will hopefully have an influential part to play in the way their thoughts about gender are organised in the future.

Go Sweden!

[weathered fair]

Best preschool in the universe ever.