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I'm Allowed to Rob You (youtube.com)

go1dfish0% Tax ~3000? Calorie Daily CryptoUBI が 投稿

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[–]Concise_PirateTech & green business, USA 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Indeed, there is a similar argument against any taxation, let alone taxes used to redistribute wealth (welfare, basic income).

The counterargument is that every member of a society benefits from the use of our shared resources (e.g. military protection, roads, school system, police, etc.) and so should be paying the owners -- all the citizens. But many people reject that counterargument.

[–]go1dfish0% Tax ~3000? Calorie Daily CryptoUBI[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

and so should be paying the owners -- all the citizens. But many people reject that counterargument.

AnCaps like myself don't reject that argument; we just think they should be payed in non-coercive ways. A CryptoUBI is a way we could fund general welfare without the need for the coercion of taxation.

And yes, this is an argument against all taxation, not just taxation in service of a UBI.

[–]Concise_PirateTech & green business, USA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Hmm, I find the idea of a voluntary UBI hard to picture working, considering the magnitude of funds involved.

Also, if you accept the "paying the owners" argument, coercion is called for -- it's enforcing the payment for services consumed, which even in a pure libertarian world is a function of government.

[–]go1dfish0% Tax ~3000? Calorie Daily CryptoUBI[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Also, if you accept the "paying the owners"

Is the systematic genocide and sequestering of a race of people a legitimate way to acquire property? I would argue that it is not.

it's enforcing the payment for services consumed

The problem is that the government provides the services without consent and then forcefully demands payment. Like a bum who starts washing your windows of his own accord and wonders why you won't pay him for it.

If services were provided on condition of payment, or through voluntary contributions it doesn't require the coercion that taxation represents.

[–]smegko 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, you didn't have an election to give the bum the power to demand payment. The Constitution is very explicit (Article 1, Section 8): government has unlimited taxation powers.

Taxation is not theft, until you change the Constitution.

However, we don't have to use the tool of taxation to fund a Basic income; we should use the tool of money creation instead. The Modigliani-Miller theorem of Finance tells the private sector that financing does not matter; the ideas matter. We should not ask, "how will we finance this?", but "is it a good idea?" We can pay for anything we want, because money is our creation, not a God that we must practice human sacrifice to.

[–]go1dfish0% Tax ~3000? Calorie Daily CryptoUBI[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Taxation is not theft, until you change the Constitution.

I disagree here and it's the main point of the linked video that no document can grant the moral authority to steal.

No, you didn't have an election to give the bum the power to demand payment.

Nor did we have any election for which I could choose to invalidate the document you claim to gives authority to rob me.

However, we don't have to use the tool of taxation to fund a Basic income; we should use the tool of money creation instead.

I absolutely agree here, Inflation is similar to taxation, but to the extent that use of the inflated currency is not coerced; it is a more moral alternative to taxation.

I think a CryptoUBI would best function by distributing funds realized through planned monetary inflation.

We can pay for anything we want, because money is our creation, not a God that we must practice human sacrifice to.

Absolutely; but the power of money creation is a strong one indeed and gives those who wield it god-like ability to influence an economy for better or worse (See Dotcom, Housing, Student Loans)

For that reason, it should not be delegated to the subjective decisions of political appointees.

[–]Concise_PirateTech & green business, USA 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would like to visit the libertarian world you describe. I understand it almost certainly won't happen in my lifetime.

Given the strength of the smaller-government arguments (at least in the USA), presumably a UBI that is entirely funded through savings in other social programs has a better chance.

[–]hnice 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Like a bum who starts washing your windows of his own accord and wonders why you won't pay him for it.

Right. While you sit waiting at the privately-funded stop light, on the privately-funded road. Got it.

[–]go1dfish0% Tax ~3000? Calorie Daily CryptoUBI[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What's so bad about privately funded roads if everyone is guaranteed enough of a UBI to pay the necessary tolls?

[–]hnice 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nothing. Except that they don't exist. On that point, they fail miserably.

It was just funny because you proposed a real-world comparison that depends on two things that have, in like every single case, been paid for by the government. Without roads and stoplights, that bum annoying you by trying not to starve, he has no windshield to wash. Of course, you probably don't have a car because where would you drive it, but I guess that's not a sure thing.