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[–]maxmercury -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (19子コメント)

In debate, the first rule for me is to remember Voltaire; for those who are uneducated, or have simply forgotten what free speech is, it goes thus:

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Why on Earth would I bring this up? Allow me a moment to be my usual Blunt self; I think most people on reddit are pathetic. I think most of the time they exalt the values of freedom of speech and expression, but only so long as it falls in line with a liberal society agenda.

You're permitted to say what you like about homosexuality, so long as you don't mention that you don't agree with it, and it's not your thing - a prime example of this was evident over the past year upon mentioning the subject of Gay marriage. You're allowed your opinion of Muslims, so long as it's a positive view that does not, under any circumstances hold a negative view of the society as a whole.

You're allowed your views of Israel, so long as you don't draw parallels with what they're doing to the Palestinians at this very moment to the way the Germans treated the Jews at the very beginning, before they began committing their atrocities.

Freedom of speech is nothing more than an illusion, and I had honestly - perhaps naively hoped that /r/britishpolitics would manage to avoid behaving in a way that happens all too often in /r/ukpolitics -it's fairly evident that the same bullshit has made its way here, in that anyone with an alternative view is down voted to oblivion and chastised for simply voicing an opinion. There's no discussion, no dialogue; not even the illusion of cordial discourse; simply diatribe for not subscribing to yet another liberal agenda pushing subreddit that gets their sensibilities offended the minute someone says or thinks something different from the status quo. Shame on you. Shame on you all - especially the mods who appear to have already forgotten why they wanted an alternative to /r/ukpolitics in the first place, and already shrugging off any pretence of impartiality.

edit: I have something more to say.

I want you to think about what the subreddit is for. Hell; I want you to consider what reddit is supposed to be for - it's supposed to be about discourse. It's supposed to be about gaining insight, seeing the different angles and discussing them evenly and not bandwagon voting for a fucking popularity contest.

You should welcome racists. You should welcome radical muslims, ex members of the IRA and even paedophile priests to the subreddit, because that's how you learn. That's how you understand why they think the way they do; celebrate the diversity and savour the challenge of someone with an opposing view that you stand a chance of maybe, just maybe changing the mind of by helping them see the flaws in their logic; or hell, even agreeing with them.

But then, I think that's probably what you're all scared of.

[–]weblypistol 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I don't have to defend what anyone says if I disagree. I can mock and taunt to my hearts delight.. I won't defend cunts.

How far has the white extinction gone. I don't think they are threatened. Give me numbers. And if my kids have brown babies so what? As long as they are good.

I am so tired of this weak piffle from racist numpties.

[–]MrFlabulousGlorious People's Republic Of Asbostan[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't have to defend what anyone says if I disagree. I can mock and taunt to my hearts delight.. I won't defend cunts.

...and that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. With just a couple of dozen words you are destroying any chance of clear, reasoned chat. The standards that the mods have set have excluded Joe yet you are allowed to hurl insults and get away with it. Your exchange with Max belongs somewhere else. Far, far away.

[–]weblypistol 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you are destroying any chance of clear, reasoned chat

This is not what you are after and a simple child could see it. I'm big enough to be able to not play let's pretend.

[–]Zanza_NUKIP[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm waiting until I'm home to make a proper response to this thread and such however, nobody will get away with throwing insults around as long as a mod sees the post. As I've mentioned to you in my PM, please report any posts which are breaching this rule.

If somebody continues to break rules after being warned then they will face consequences, regardless of their political view.

[–]MrFlabulousGlorious People's Republic Of Asbostan[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll not take this one further. Especially not in a thread with the title "free speech".

[–]TotesMessenger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

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[–]MrFlabulousGlorious People's Republic Of Asbostan[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Not often I agree with you.

By the way, some of my best friends are right wing. :D

[–]maxmercury -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

But the problem here is that I'm not even right wing; fundamentally I'm a socialist (I prefer to consider myself a humanist) - if you should choose to put labels on one. It's just that I also think that we should have an intelligent, open discussion on subjects such as foreign policy, immigration and our society as a whole, because I believe many of the problems we're having today is because there is no cultural immersion - our communities are segregated, and it causes discontent because there's no understanding or appreciation of the cultures that make the U.K. so wonderful and diverse.

[–]MrFlabulousGlorious People's Republic Of Asbostan[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ah, damnit! I've fallen into a pretty common trap and made an unfair assumption. Sorry 'bout that. So yeah, fair do's.

Some communities are segregated, sure. But I think that's as much the fault of the Brits as the immigrants. My position is that if we were a little more sympathetic then it would be easier for immigrants to adjust. Living in Sweden I see both sides. To some extent the Swedes do things far better than the UK, at least in some areas of immigration and multiculturalism. But equally there are some pretty hefty flaws with the system too. Although I have tried to adjust and integrate, even though my Swedish is actually not too bad and I try to join in with their fika etc. I do still feel excluded.

People are welcome to debate the issue, but where I think UKIP really fails is that there is no acknowledgement of the lack of understanding that the UK has generally. UKIP is very much rooted in tradition and conservatism and I honestly believe that their attitude, policies and overall thinking is suited more for 1955 than 2015.

Anyway, we Brits would find something else to squabble about if we had no problems with immigration I reckon. It's in our nature. It's why we were at war with France for hundreds of years!

[–]maxmercury -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, damnit! I've fallen into a pretty common trap and made an unfair assumption. Sorry 'bout that. So yeah, fair do's.

It's really no problem. Most of the time I keep my political alignment out of the discussion; it tends to taint the flow.

Some communities are segregated, sure. But I think that's as much the fault of the Brits as the immigrants. My position is that if we were a little more sympathetic then it would be easier for immigrants to adjust. Living in Sweden I see both sides. To some extent the Swedes do things far better than the UK, at least in some areas of immigration and multiculturalism. But equally there are some pretty hefty flaws with the system too. Although I have tried to adjust and integrate, even though my Swedish is actually not too bad and I try to join in with their fika etc. I do still feel excluded.

You see my insight comes from having lived in Germany for a good portion of my life; I'm not actually opposed to the idea of a federal Europe - in fact I truly believe that centrally administrating critical functions such as healthcare, benefits, policing etc. would benefit hugely from integrating these resources to a central location - I just also believe that UK citizens have a fundamental right to determine their own destiny; that involves europe, and my belief that it's well past time to dismantle the monarchy and parliament in exchange for a political system that's fit for purpose. UKIP for me suffers the same problem as every other party we have without exception; they're all out of touch, and they're all career politicans. Civil service should be a calling - not a job.