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Thank you, Vivacious (versaceslut.tumblr.com)

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[–]dumpster_high_dive 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (153子コメント)

I don't understand why some feel the need to defend the gay community by degrading straight people. It's not delicious.

edit - Also I don't know the context this was said in. Just my gut reaction.

[–]itspluto 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (70子コメント)

She's not degrading anyone here, just stating facts. She may have generalized but it is a real phenomenon. Do you know how often I see people on mainstream TV say "throwing shade" nowadays? A looot.

[–]hikariluanEvahaHahaHahaHahaHa 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

There's a problem with this. I do want something similar to the "straight lifestyle" for my life, but I also do want to do drag and express myself trough it. I also want to keep writing because I love it. Wanting to follow a more "straight lifestyle" doesn't mean I'm not creative or that I'm not able to be an artist or that I do care about what society think of me. If I did I would be listening to the guys who criticize my way of thinking and my wishes, while I think it's just a different decision. The thing she's wanting to say is: we, as gay people, are more free than any other people because we dont really care about what society thinks. This makes us able to be free to create in a way that most straight people aren't. It comes especially from the older generation, they really had to gave up everything and don't give a shit to society rules. Nowadays there's no limitation, while I agree, gay people are really creative, we have straight creative people too. I'm cool with her thinking, but it also leads to one way of thinking that I'm bothered by, the one that stereotypes gays into working only in creative jobs or being only the creative people.

[–]MoreDblRainbowsI don't wanna read U 2 filth, but I will. Sit Down #MuvaRose 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

SHe is not saying that gay people are the only creative people. She's pointing to a phenomenon that happens to almost every minority community. Pushed to outskirts and shamed, so forced to create and then shunned for that. Then out of nowhere, mainstream takes it and what was "faggy" on you is cool to them. Its BS and happens over and over and over again.

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NobleSavage

[–]sweetnessalive 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know if this really fits here

[–]autotrope_bot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Noble Savage

They have things like the Atom Bomb So I think I'll stay where I am Civilization! I'll stay right here! — Danny Kaye and The Andrews Sisters , "Civilization".

A character who is, due to their race or ethnicity, a member of abarbaric or savage tribe(or a group simply<em> perceived</em>as such by others), and because of it portrayed as nobler or of higher moral fibre than the norm. (Often regarded as living theGood Old Ways). In American works, the savages in question are quite often American Indians. In European works, native African people tend to be more common. Rare nowadays, except as aSci-Fialien- though it has made something of a comeback with the idea ofMagical Native Americanpeople being more in tune with nature than the greedy white people.

Read More

I am a bot. Here is my sub

[–]SayceGards[🍰] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Why aren't straight people allowed to say "throwing shade?" It's like... appropriation is the hipster of non-mainstream cultures. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds a lot like "oh, I heard their music before they got famous."

Edit: I'm not tryna be ignant (even though I totally am), I just truly don't understand why little things like that matter so much. Bullying matters, murdering gay people for being gay matters, burning down people's houses because they're gay matters, driving people to homelessness and suicide matters... but saying "throwing shade?" That's what we're going to get up in arms about?

[–]MoreDblRainbowsI don't wanna read U 2 filth, but I will. Sit Down #MuvaRose 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Its not about the words or the gestures or the costumes whatever. ITs reductionist. Mainstream culture picks and chooses what they find "cute" about gay people, takes them but without ever really inviting us to the party. You can go on TV and be "faggy" because that's funny but god forbid you have sex or don't conform to this image of what a gay person is from the outside perspective. We become caricatures and caricatures aren't deserving of respect or equality.

[–]SayceGards[🍰] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you for answering honestly and without being mean. I know when saying things about nor understanding appropriation people tend to get... heated. I appreciate your restraint.

This makes me understand more. Thank you

[–]MoreDblRainbowsI don't wanna read U 2 filth, but I will. Sit Down #MuvaRose 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha no restraint was necessary, I think the best thing people can do is ask questions.

I also think one of the worse things to come of this fairly new "Pop Sociology" movement is people who A. Use terms incorrectly and B. Use their "knowledge"(which is usually incorrect or lacking nuance) to shame others.

[–]dumpster_high_dive -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (41子コメント)

Yeah, the whole "us and them" mentality is counterintuitive to the whole situation though. Why are straight people the enemy? What am I missing?

[–]AngelaVisalia 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (32子コメント)

well gay people aren't the ones who won't let us get married. Gay people aren't the ones who beat us up on the street. Gay people aren't the ones who kick us out of the house at 15 for telling them who we are. Gay people aren't the ones who bully us so badly it drives us to commit suicide. Gay people aren't the ones making it illegal to exist in their countries. Gay people aren't the ones imprisoning and murdering us literally for being who we are. Gay people aren't the one's who enforce and create and perpetuate all the real oppression, not just talk. Straight people are the enemy because straight people literally are the enemy. Not all straight people are the problem, but all of the problems are from straight people. That's why.

[–]dumpster_high_dive -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (31子コメント)

lol. Guess what? Plenty of straight people not doing those things. And the people making those decisions are making them because they are evil, not because of their sexual orientation. Gtfo of here with your fucking horseshoe theory.

[–]AngelaVisalia 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (26子コメント)

And yet the "good straight people" are attacking queers online instead of fighting the plenty of straight people who ARE doing and enforcing those things. The US is fluctuating on 50/50 with marriage equality, which doesn't even capture actual homophobia and transphobia. And it doesn't take much knowledge to know that most of the world is a lot less open to "the gays" than we are. So it's not just some straight people who feel like that and enforce that, its the vast majority of them. Gtfo of here with your fake ally bullshit.

[–]dumpster_high_dive -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (25子コメント)

Fake ally bullshit? Fuck off! I'm so fucking sick of the gay community being so exclusive. I used to dress like a boy in middle school. I was teased and made fun of, even by my parents. To this day I can't have a fulfilling relationship with a man because I get penis envy. So where exactly does this fit in the "straight world"? And even the gay community says gtfo because I'm a woman who favors men. Holy fucking shit

ivehadit.gif

[–]meldolphin#TeamJaycee 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Er, I'm a straight lady, grew up tomboyish, and I've never gotten the impression that gay people want us to get out. I think Vivacious' point is that the cute stuff goes mainstream without people understanding the struggle that went along with all of that. Y'know how it goes, gay slang gets "discovered" and people latch on because it's cool, some silly girls want a gay best friend to go shopping with, etc. Certain things from the gay community are seen as cool and exciting to the straight world while gay people are still treated badly. That's what she's getting at I think.

[–]SayceGards[🍰] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Isn't this the same for any minority group? It doesn't just exist in the gay community.

[–]macabragoriaDON'T TARNISH MY NAME 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No-one said it did, and I'm guessing as a black man Vivacious is aware of that.

[–]meldolphin#TeamJaycee 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh for sure, it happens in a lot of places.

[–]dumpster_high_dive -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

stuff goes mainstream without people understanding the struggle that went along with all of that

Totally did not get the first time I saw the gifset. I read something else into it. But that happens when you take 5 or 6 sentences out of what must have been a 1-2 hour convo!

[–]NumberOneStan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The reason the gay community is "exclusive" as you see it is because we're sick and tired of being insulted, rejected, stereotyped, looked down on, called sinners etc etc by straight people and because of this we would simply prefer to hang out with our own kind. That's the truth.

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't understand though these people are ALLIES!!!!! Anything they do to marginalise us or make us feel bad is out of love, but don't call them out on it, if you do they might think the homophobes are right after all!

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm so fucking sick of the gay community being so exclusive

Me too! Can straight people start treating us like equals?

[–]macabragoriaDON'T TARNISH MY NAME 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are embarrassing yourself so hard and fast in this post that I'm hoping it's intentional. Completely unsurprising that you would pull the "more oppressed-than-thou" card and evoke your petty teenage angst rather than attempt to see things from the perspective of those you claim to be such an ally of....

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I used to dress like a boy in middle school. I was teased and made fun of, even by my parents. To this day I can't have a fulfilling relationship with a man because I get penis envy. So where exactly does this fit in the "straight world"? And even the gay community says gtfo because I'm a woman who favors men. Holy fucking shit

[–]YubiOreBecause I am WHAT?! 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes.

[–]dreammarauderIs this America's Next Top Model? -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I think I've upvoted every comment you've made in this post.claps

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I've had a few people tell me that, but most of my comments here are at negative karma.

This is depressing...

[–]macabragoriaDON'T TARNISH MY NAME -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My money's on straight girl, owns a tumblr, thinks liking Drag Race makes her an "ally"...

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Somebody give this bitch a GLAAD award, I mean gay people don't deserve them, right?

[–]dnosebapps 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not really an "us vs them" more of just a statement. Queer culture is often replicated years after things are "in" and oftentimes the queer community is not given credit.

[–]dumpster_high_dive -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well that's a pretty fair statement, definitely not what I got from the gif set. I think it lacked context.

[–]dnosebapps 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meh, to me that's what I got. But I have seen the video too so I could tell it definitely was the context.

[–]MoreDblRainbowsI don't wanna read U 2 filth, but I will. Sit Down #MuvaRose 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When did she say straight people were the enemy. There would be no "gay community" if we weren't cast out of society like trash for decades (centuries).

Then after this community was established out of necessity, mainstream comes and picks and chooses what they like and leaves with clean hands.

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Gay people need to stop being so mean :(

[–]YubiOreBecause I am WHAT?! -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Everybody's mean, it's not just gay people. Why is the onus on us to be so perfect? There's bitchy people in every group, but a few gays are mean, all of us are mean now. SHUT UP.

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm being sarcastic. I'm saying that these people think that gay people are being mean to them for disagreeing but not all of us are mean.

I literally mean the opposite of what I just said and am saying it as if that's what I mean to be funny, sorry if my intention was lost over text.

[–]ultravegan 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Why do you feel you have any right to call us degrading when you hang out on toxic ass cancer subreddits like /r/fatpeoplehate ?

[–]fauxh 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

From her post history she just seems like a horrendously toxic person. I feel bad for her.

[–]pukerockc'mon snow! c'mon frozen! c'mon sisters with magical ice powers! 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

oh shit!!!!

[–]bastettt 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (6子コメント)

i don't think she's degrading straight people at all.

she's talking about a younger generation of gay american people who have grown up in a world where homosexuality is becoming more and more tolerated. these people want to live the typical "straight" lifestyle, but with someone of the same sex. gay people who get married, adopt kids, and move behind a white picket fence just like everyone else.

she's critiquing this choice, because it completely ignores the rich culture gay people have created for themselves after so many years of living underground and in fear. it's not about degrading straight people, it's about wanting to preserve a uniqueness that comes with being gay that goes beyond just "person who has sex with someone of the same gender."

[–]SayceGards[🍰] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But what bout the gay people who choose to adopt ab have the white picket fence, because that's what they want? There's nothing wrong with that

[–]pridecock 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What in the world.

So what am I supposed to do to PRESERVE the UNIQUENESS that comes with being gay...?

Basically you are saying (or she is saying) that gay people are different from straight people, even though we've fought for years to be perceived as not different, but just someone who likes the same gender. What's so bad about that?!

[–]bastettt 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

you're not supposed to do anything you don't want to do.

vi comes from an older generation of gay people and she's seeing her culture disappearing. she's lamenting the fact that gay people would even want to be like straight people instead of celebrating what makes them different.

because gay people are different from straight people. in my opinion it's more important to celebrate differences than to just brush them all under rug and pretend like everyone is exactly the same.

we fought to be treated as if we are equal to straight people. fighting for equality and fighting against prejudice doesn't mean that we fought to be the same as straight people. to you, being gay might just mean liking the same gender, which is fine. but for me, and for a lot of other people, it's a lot more than that. it's a sense of community and culture and belonging, and all of that disappears when we conform to what straight people want us to be.

edit: wording

[–]Sparrow8907OPULENCE - You. Own. Everything. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for bringing this point up. It's what I got from Vi's statement too.

I remember my senior quantitative study was basically on this exact thing. And I sat there and watched every other group that presented get READ TO FILTH for trying to incorporate post-modernism into whatever they were doing (god, everyone was SO BORING in that class). So being the smart lad I am, I was like "Oh hell no, stay the fuck away from that."

Come round for our group to present, I do my gig, and the professor's giving feed-back, "Oh, you really need to incorporate post-modernism in this jawn."

Exsqueeze me, Queen?

I've been sitting here for DAYS watching you read these bitches for trying to incorporate postmodernism into their shit when A) they didn't need to and B) most wouldn't be smart enough to do it anyways. And now you come at me FOR NOT incorporating it.

I FEEL VERY ATTACKED RIGHT NOW!!!

But that was a really fun project, and people seemed to enjoy the presentations (and given some of the droners we had, it was nice knowing they enjoyed mine).

[–]riot_nrrdsmells like jungle juice and rush 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think you're looking at this correctly. The movement for equality isn't about sameness, it's about having the same rights and protections. it just so happens that to get those rights, gay people have to be "acceptable"

[–]Sparrow8907OPULENCE - You. Own. Everything. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's funny that the majority of the discussion this gif set has generated has been about "str8's stealing" or w/e, when the main message and critic was seemingly aimed at the younger queer generation who is currently experiencing the hegemonic forces that come along with "acceptance" by the masses.

[–]thebizcuitpick a side, switzerland 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Pointing out the tendency of bland, white, heterosexuals to appropriate elements from subcultures isn't exactly "degrading straights." It's just fuckin true.

[–]pukerockc'mon snow! c'mon frozen! c'mon sisters with magical ice powers! 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i'm literally living for this comment

[–]serialflamingo*White boy voice* I DO say Mawma :( -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tell it. These heteros seem to really hate heteros if this is the standard they hold themselves to.

[–]AngelaVisalia 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (64子コメント)

Cuz straight people are so oppressed and degraded in society