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A post about the current situation (self.MLTP)

DinoSawyer_RAWRDino が 投稿

I did not want to post this, but I'm done and I can't sit by while injustices are happening. It's eating me and I can't take it anymore. The following are my opinions, and my opinions alone.

I am 100% sure that GriefSeeds did not use a bot, either in pubs or competitively. Yes, I was convinced by the evidence, we all were, and I agreed to the punishments. However, I have reconsidered this grave mistake. I fucked up. I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I personally fucked up in trying to avoid biases and not giving this huge deal its due diligence. I've been toiling with this all day, but I'm making this post because I think it's the right thing to do in order to make things right.

So these are my beliefs, and I personally know them to be true. GriefSeeds did not use a bot, and CHECKNATE or Ballzilla did not use a bot in competitive play, ever. If I'm wrong, which I 100% believe that I'm not, I am fully willing to go down with that ship.

I know that I shouldn't be posting this, but I can't take it anymore, and I apologize to the commissioners, the implicated parties, and the communities. I'd like to get this resolved, and this is the only way that I see to accelerate that process. This is NOT meant to incite a witch-hunt. EVERYONE has and had the noblest intentions of doing the best they can for the community. This is just my best attempt to right a wrong.

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[–]brgerdBG//Marble Madness 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (6子コメント)

What has changed in your eyes for the evidence? Just trying to understand since clearly all of the commissioners and you thought it was convincing and you at least have since changed your mind.

[–]DinoSawyer_RAWRDino[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Less new evidence and more that I realized that I was looking too deeply into evidence that didn't really matter, at least personally. It also involved a leap of faith due to knowing grief personally, but once I got past the "seeing what i wanted to see" stage, it was fairly simple to pick through the evidence and see that it didn't all add up.

[–]zachbarnettJesus / ALL CAPS 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Based on what you're saying here, it doesn't seem like you have very good evidence for the very strong statement you made in your OP:

I am 100% sure that GriefSeeds did not use a bot, either in pubs or competitively

Do you have evidence for this that you're not telling us?

Regardless, props for changing your mind and sticking up for what you think it is right.

[–]TnelsExquisite 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

pls jesus, look at yourself. he just wants to get grief back to win that title match against us..

jk

[–]goodygood_274ballparts // 4Os 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Based on what you're saying here, it doesn't seem like you have very good evidence

isn't that kind of the whole story of this mess though?

[–]zachbarnettJesus / ALL CAPS 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes!

If Dino had said "We just didn't have very good evidence, and I didnt' feel comfortable with it," then I wouldn't be complaining. Dino is saying he is 100% sure that Grief never used a bot outside of maptest, and I'm just wondering why he thinks so.

[–]goodygood_274ballparts // 4Os 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Me too, definitely. If Dino had all the same evidence that the others who decided on lifetime bans had and he's not convinced, it calls into question how convincing the evidence actually is. Every aspect of this situation and how it's been handled is just so deeply disappointing.

[–]ArtBall 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"I am 100% sure that GriefSeeds did not use a bot, either in pubs or competitively. Yes, I was convinced by the evidence"

what? Has new evidence come to light? If not, How is it possible that you go from believing the evidence to 100% certain he didn't cheat?

If theres no new evidence, this just seems like a half assed ploy to save your buddies cheating ass.

Either way, If they don't end up being banned for some reason, I'd love to see if their overall stats degrade after more anti-botting measures are put into place. Throw them the flag and yell "play for your freedom"

[–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Or let them show their stats stay the same and we all can realize they weren't ever botting.

[–]ArtBall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's why I said "if".

[–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My fault, I read "I'd love to see their overall stats degrade"

I apologize, however I adamantly disagree with this:

If theres no new evidence, this just seems like a half assed ploy to save your buddies cheating ass.

[–]ArtBall 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whether you disagree or not, Grief is on Dino's USC team, so he definitely has something to lose if grief is banned from that as well.

Either way, what I said has some merit.

I'm also viewing this from the standpoint of not knowing either of them, so I could be totally wrong. Who knows.

[–]BilldaCat10 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

[DRAMA INTENSIFIES]

[–]FLY-moloFLYMOLO | Mythboosters 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What changed your opinion?

[–]TagProFelixFeelicks 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Am I in an episode of House of Cards?

[–]adhi-adhi | RIP SOAS 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

hm

[–]quassuscrosky | Tears 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Jesus this is getting messy.

  1. How can you claim with 100% certainty stance B without any new evidence brought to light when 24 hours ago you stood behind stance A?
  2. What exactly made you change your mind when Aaron and presumably the other mods still maintain the original position?
  3. This reeks of sloppy decision-making from the get-go.
  4. I was against it in the beginning because it would help other cheaters, but now that you've made this post publicly rejecting the decision of the rules committee you're a part of, it's become necessary that the specifics and evidence of the situation be divulged, else I don't know how we can have trust in the rules committee and this ruling any more. Surely it wasn't your intent but this post essentially makes it a Dino's word against the rest of the rules committee's word situation, and without proper evidence how are we to know who to believe?

[–]Hulzy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ill combine my comments from the other post and discussion I have had with aaron215.

I completely understand that it is not just video footage to determine if a player was botting, I know they have the software. I just don't understand why there hasn't been any confirmation that a bot was used specifically DURING an MLTP game. I know footage was reviewed for these games to determine/confirm that a bot was being used. It is apparent that you know whether or not is was used during an MLTP game based on Ballzilla's team not having to replay their games. All I'm asking for is video footage that shows botting during an MLTP game. I don't believe showing botting on a video of game play that was available to public would at all increase the chances of bot coders being available to avoid being detected in the future. I would also like to know, if you can tell me, was there any other means of detecting botting used DURING an MLTP game other than video evidence.

I believe these questions can be answered without giving away information that is sensitive to bot detection.

[–]BashIsFunserf 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welcome to (semi) democracy. :)

[–]PrivateMajorPrivateMajor - Rollin' Golden Boulders 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm on my phone almost back from a long work trip but I want to respond to your last point.

The commissioners and rules committee are chosen because the league leaders voted to give them the keys to safeguard the league. These people are supposed to be the most trustworthy and best people to ensure the success of the league.

So if you lose trust, the solution is to veto someone out, or several, and vote in people who you believe will better lead the league. Let them see these things and deal with them as the trusted committee sees fit.

This is an issue of league safety, and many parts of this mist be kept hidden in order to ensure the best things for MLTP. But if the decisions the commissioners and rules committee make, make you not trust them, vote in people you do trust.

[–]quassuscrosky | Tears 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's all well and good for future seasons of MLTP but will not help the current situation. The current situation is that party A from the rules committee, whom we are supposed to trust, and party B from the rules committee, whom we are supposed to trust equally, are making opposite statements. What's more, the opposite statements they are making aren't petty but concern the most monumental ruling in the history of MLTP.

Clearly one of these parties had a serious lapse in judgment at some point in the decision making process.

I guarantee you now that Dino has made this statement that if this is solved internally and without transparency nobody is going to have faith in the outcome. That is to say, if the rules committee divulges no further information and upholds the ruling, people will riot in the streets for Grief/Checknate's reinstatement; if the rules committee divulges no further information and the ruling is overturned, people will still riot in the streets because A. it means the rules committee made an egregious error and B. it's possible that they're letting a cheater continue to play.

The only course of action that will reinstate the people's trust in the rules committee is access to the evidence that was used to incriminate Grief and Checknate so we can decide for ourselves which party is the trustworthy party.

[–]bowtieTP 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

http://www.reddit.com/r/MLTP/comments/2vwg9i/is_anybody_going_to_be_streaming_the_rescheduled/colj64s

Now you want evidence?

[–]quassuscrosky | Tears 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You don't have to remind me what I said. I know what I said. It's a world of difference when the rules committee is acting in solidarity and when it's fragmented.

[–]bowtieTP 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if all commissioners acted together, there were already comments being posted planting doubt in the ordeal. I wasn't saying to not believe what the commissioners said just that you shouldn't so fervently argue for them.

[–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's fair enough I think. However it does go to show that maybe we shouldn't blindly trust authority.

[–]quassuscrosky | Tears 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My faith in the rules committee was anything but "blind". It was the result of two years of the reputation for integrity of character they've built themselves in the community.

[–]dandeliondreamerE / LagProne 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We've been working really hard behind the scenes at USC dissecting and analysing all of the available information that we can possibly get our hands on. To imply that crosky was "blindly trusting authority" is actually quite offensive to me.

Edit: combined with this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/MLTP/comments/2vy6ya/a_post_about_the_current_situation/colyp26

[–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

and without proper evidence how are we to know who to believe?

We can't. I've been saying from the beginning that without evidence we shouldn't blindly trust anyone. You on the other hand clearly stated that we should blindly trust them.

[–]quassuscrosky | Tears 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As I said to bowtie, it's a world of difference when the rules committee is acting in solidarity and when it's fragmented. You guys are really going to give me shit for initially trusting a unified rules committee?

[–]slivr33Holdmaballs::Ghostboosters 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

not giving this huge deal its due diligence

This was my problem from the get-go. Right or wrong, how could we cancel a week, then drop this huge announcement without even talking to the accused? Why couldn't this issue be sorted out in private before this massive announcement that was hyped up by an entire week being post-poned? Why couldn't we release all of the names committing any kind of offense at once in a quick, concise, all encompassing post? Hindsight is 20/20, but I can't help but be mad because I just want to play.

Now this has all gotten way too out of hand be it from trolls or fake accounts or whatever. I for one think it's fucking bullshit. I just want to play tagpro at a competitive level.

I understand the need to some things hidden but with all of the discrepancies in reports from whoever, whenever, whatever.. if we want to move forward in any way we need TRANSPARENCY

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I should be going to sleep, but I know people are going to be anxious and I want to help with that..

Right or wrong, how could we cancel a week, then drop this huge announcement without even talking to the accused?

Because the devs required some secrecy to their method, and we respected that.

Why couldn't this issue be sorted out in private before this massive announcement that was hyped up by an entire week being post-poned?

We worked tirelessly among ourselves and with the devs on this in private. We didn't postpone the week to hype, we did it to help people not put their lives on hold for a game and then it get cancelled out from under them.

Why couldn't we release all of the names committing any kind of offense at once in a quick, concise, all encompassing post?

Because we are doing due diligence on every single person's case, and that takes time and care. While Dino may be saying he didn't take the care he wished he had, he told us he had, as he stated above, and that doesn't change that the other Rules Committee members did as well.

I just want to play tagpro at a competitive level.

That's the only reason the Rules Committee is doing this. We feel that cannot happen when there are people using cheating scripts and bots.

I understand the need to some things hidden but with all of the discrepancies in reports from whoever, whenever, whatever.. if we want to move forward in any way we need TRANSPARENCY

That has been and will be up to the devs. We will not compromise their efforts in order to make ourselves look better.

[–]slivr33Holdmaballs::Ghostboosters 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let me make one thing clear, I am in complete agreement that the devs are entitled to their right to secrecy when it comes to their methods of finding out about any form of cheating. Secondly I'd like to state that I still believe that there quite obviously was cheating in some forms.

With that being said, what I am asking is what does this have to do with the commissioners' responsibility to sort out all of the facts before dropping the bomb? Why could they not talk to Griefseeds, CHECKNATE, and Ballzilla? Why did this need to be done entirely in private after you had already accrued evidence?

I in no way shape or form believe you did anything for hype purposefully but this is obviously a result.

You have my support going forward, and I don't think I'd be able to do a better job, but what we need to do is take a step back and get all of the facts that we can out. This needs to be done quickly and concisely.

[–]SoconyPengWin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you want to go to bed, then you should. I know people want answers now but I'd rather not put hypothetical drama over Aaron's well-being.

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Done. Good advice.

[–]SoconyPengWin 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sweet Dreams

[–]MrJoehobo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My latest conpiracy theory is that this is all going 100% acording to Private Majors plan to make a subredit drama push.

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Just a note for everyone: Dino has the best intentions for this league. I don't agree with everything he is saying here, and the other commissioners stand by the original decision 100%, but that does not mean that we do not respect him. I know that it is VERY hard to stand against a friend and not be able to give them proof why, and Dino having to do that was obviously very difficult.

TagPro is more than just MLTP, it's also a community, and I really do feel sorry that Dino was put in a tough spot choosing between the league he volunteered to help run, and his friends in the community.

All of that said, Dino, I know I disagree with you on a lot of issues, but I really think that having you as part of the Commissioners and the Rules Committee was vital in helping us challenge ourselves to come to the best decisions on every issue. I also respect you Dino for taking what I mentioned to you in modmail seriously. You have my utmost respect for that, and I don't have any ill-will towards you for making this post.

For everyone else, we still will not be commenting on any evidence that compromises the efforts of the developers, or the efforts of the commissioners, in the process of finding and removing people who are cheating in MLTP, any other league, or TagPro in general. I find that more important than efforts to save face.

Now it's my birthday. I'm going to go to sleep and take a break from all this. Do not expect personal replies today, but I will get back to as many as I'm able to comment on tomorrow if the other Rules Committee members have not already done so.

[–]SoconyPengWin 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey Happy Birthday buddy

[–]TagProTyrusTy | ALL CAPS | Pi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Happy birthday!

[–]checknate1CHECKNATE// s6 & s7 Capitalists 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Happy Birthday!

[–]memeganoob 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Dang, it's also NLTP's birthday, and PK's birthday lol

Happy birthday! Have fun tomorrow, don't deal with a stupid game lol

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm still here... TagPro why can't I quit you :-(

I already wished PK a happy birthday, but you all should too :-)

[–]lukemoolukemoo/S4 OR/S5 SoAS/S6 FoTP/S7 T4S 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

no, fuck pk

[–]memeganoob 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

pk literal hitler

[–]adhi-adhi | RIP SOAS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

pk literal hitler

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall // NLTP scrub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Omg what?!! its me, pk, and nltp's birthday?? this is crazy. also hbd aaron :)

[–]TagProStalin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Happy Birthday buddy! :D

[–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

happy birthday! as for questions... soo if a commissioner goes against the others opinions, don't you kinda feel this should be looked over a bit more? dino is a smart dude, what happens if he's right? or will his post be ignored and we all just keep those guys banned because the majority feels they should be?

and why wasn't this more organized? check holdma's comment to see what i mean. i don't mean it as a jab at anyone but honestly curious.

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

We have been trying to get some more info from Dino, but he's had a rough day with his own internal struggling with this. He has the very best intentions, and I at least will go over everything he wants to go over. I don't see holdma's comment, I'll need to refresh.

[–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

so is this post going to make y'all look back or do you stand by your original word? & you already replied to holdmaballs, thanks.

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

We stand by our original word and we'll hear anything that Dino brings forward. But from my understanding it wasn't new evidence that convinced him, it was his personal conversations with Griefseeds and having second thoughts about some video he used as evidence after we started looking into Griefseeds.

[–]bowtieTP 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What part did you have in this? You continually try to separate yourself from the situation saying things like:

about some video he used as evidence

That has been and will be up to the devs.

You also said

I personally didn't review the public videos for CHECKNATE. and GRIEFSEEDS

Did you actually look at any evidence yourself or believe in what others said?

[–]TagProStalin 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm so confused. Can somebody just explain to me what's going on? I've heard so many different things from so many people

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]TagProStalin 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    no, he answered nothing. Now there are unanswered questions for the commissioners and now there is huge ambiguity in the events that transpired. Good on Dino for doing this, but now it leaves a LOT of unanswered questions

    [–]brgerdBG//Marble Madness 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thank you, this raises far more questions than answering anything at all.

    [–]Hulzy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    For the people if affected and their respective teams there were a LOT of unanswered questions from the start.

    [–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fair enough. I see your point and I was wrong.

    [–]checknate1CHECKNATE// s6 & s7 Capitalists 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Dude, even if you are wrong (which i believe isn't the case) and this post doesnt change anything, I just wanted to say you have a lot of guts for posting this. This shows you care a lot about this community.

    Thank you for that

    [–]the_winnerhoneybear | Pi Rats 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I have nothing but respect for you Dino. Yet, I'm still confused about this whole thing.

    [–]owlpharaohGinseng 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    lmaooooooooooooooo

    [–]king_jacobiwayne/Bop'em Plock'em Showbots 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    First off, it's saunuku.

    [–]tp_steveholt 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    but I've been posting that on all these threads! joke-stealer...

    [–]TagProTyrusTy | ALL CAPS | Pi 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I'm proud of you Dino. My upmost respect to you. Thank you for having the guts to post this.

    [–]Hulzy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Yeah took a lot of guts to stand against the opinions of the other commissioners, the community really owes him.

    [–]DinoSawyer_RAWRDino[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Please don't make this a me against commissioners thing. I really just couldn't sit here with all of the hate and misinformation being spread for another night.

    [–]Hulzy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't mean to make it you against them. Just stating that at this point your opinion differs from what the commissioners vocal in the thread have stated.

    [–]the_winnerhoneybear | Pi Rats 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    sooo what if this is like the honeymoon prank??

    [–]the_winnerhoneybear | Pi Rats 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    We're pretty sure this is a planned "drama" push

    [–]UndustedBrake | Novice League Scrub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    dibs on posting all of this to /r/SubredditDrama

    [–]dandeliondreamerE / LagProne 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Needs more dowvotes in the thread. People are being too respectful and not irrational enough.

    [–]vBongo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    This is a joke. If it is so hard to determine whether or not they used the bot then why don't you make a precedent about simply having the bot? If a major league player is seen to be in possession of the bot script than that in itself should be bannable. He admits he has it, that should be the reason he's banned. Anything beyond that is just someone's word against someone else's word.

    SIMPLY HAVING THE BOT SHOULD BE A BANNABLE OFFENSE

    [–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    SIMPLY HAVING THE BOT SHOULD BE A BANNABLE OFFENSE

    So everyone over at /r/tagprobots should be banned for using bots on the maptest servers? Which is actually allowed and encouraged by the way.

    [–]vBongo -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm talking about being banned from competitive play. So yes, if they are playing in a competitive league then they should be banned from the league if they have it.

    [–]memeganoob 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Problem is that it's impossible to be able to tell whether someone has the bot userscript or not unless they're actually playing.

    [–]manbareManbear | Pi Rats 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm not sure how I feel about this because it basically delegitimizes all of what the rules committee/commissioners have said, whether or not what they've said and done was fair. This only creates more dissent amongst the community, adds to the confusion, and makes everything more dramaitc than it needs to be. I respect you for sitting by your values, but this is making everything way more complex than this needs to be.

    [–]DinoSawyer_RAWRDino[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah. I know, which is why it took so long for me to post, because I don't know what can or can't be said, due to being given information confidentially. It was just the misinformation pissing me off and making others feel bad.

    [–]StraightZlatCapernicus 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Im just going to leave this here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6liY-143bGM

    *I just saw this, Im not saying Im convinced by the video, Im just giving you a visual

    **Can someone who's used the script give their input pls

    [–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    To be clear, I don't think watching stream footage can prove that someone is using a bot. Dino did use this footage extensively in his review of GRIEFSEEDS, and part of his problem was he took that odd movement to be proof of a bot (as did the video maker it seems). Dino believes it to be lag induced now, after the fact, and I agree. I don't think I've ever seen a ball (botted or not) move like that other than in a lag spike.

    [–]StraightZlatCapernicus -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    cool case cleared

    [–]dodsfall 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thats the same thing that happens when you boost at someone and it looks like you hit them and then go around them...

    [–]checknate1CHECKNATE// s6 & s7 Capitalists 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I really hope you're being sarcastic here.

    a bot would move against xile, not move with him.

    this just looks like lag.

    [–]slivr33Holdmaballs::Ghostboosters 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Check, you're the last person who should be talking while this gets sorted, your credibility is shoddy til everything is figured out so whatever point you want to make won't be felt the way you want it to be felt. THAT BEING SAID, when TPR showed this clip to me not even in that video my initial reaction is that that move isn't within the physics of the game, it had to be lag, likely stramer lag. If Grief did it at another point in the game then i'd believe this evidence, but ONE time isn't enough for me to believe it isn't stream lag or something else.

    [–]StraightZlatCapernicus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    ah good to hear that from u

    [–]checknate1CHECKNATE// s6 & s7 Capitalists 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I mean it's preeeeetty obvious that this wasnt a bot making those movements

    [–]StraightZlatCapernicus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ah, ur more knowledgable about this subject that i am

    [–]bowtieTP 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Satire?

    [–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Must be

    [–]dodsfall -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    WE HAVE NEW EVIDENCE OF HACKER IN PUB!!! GRAB THE PITCH FORKS

    [–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Dino I'm really really proud of you. I know you told me in mumble that this would be very difficult for you, and I just want to say you did the right thing. The community thanks you.

    [–]itsacowitsacow 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    How did he do the right thing? He leaked in sensitive information that he was honor bound to keep. This statement will then only lead to more drama and more problems.

    [–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't agree with the facts of his post, but from what I see here, he didn't leak anything about the method that was used to catch people botting. I trust he hasn't elsewhere either, but those conversations he's had with others are private, and I hope that he'd at least give us and the devs a heads up if he did.

    [–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    He leaked information that shows that maybe, just maybe, we shouldn't be blindly trusting people only since they are in positions of power. Oh, and he might have insured that three innocent players could keep playing MLTP

    [–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    to be fair dino is in a position of power too

    [–]UndustedBrake | Novice League Scrub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ugh this whole thing is confusing. I would just like to see what makes the other commisioners so sure the people they banned are botting and also what makes you so sure they didn't.

    [–]AnarchismYookthen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Can everyone just release all of their evidence because otherwise its just some people saying their opinion and the rest of the community with no knowledge of what is going on.

    [–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That has been and will be up to the devs. We will not compromise their efforts in order to make ourselves look better.

    [–]AnarchismYookthen 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yea, but I think eventually its gonna have to happen. Too much drama and it isn't going to quiet down until everyone knows for sure.

    [–]bobby_gordon1TheBob18 || Glorious Knights of Cap-a-Lot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    well fuck

    [–]maxp0wer5might dino 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Bout to use this whole thing for a Polisci case study.

    [–]tagpro_t -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    How can you be 100% sure that they never used a bot? At least explain how you can come to this conclusion with such certainty. If you're going to go against all the evidence the devs and commissioners have given, at least back it up. You've said absolutely nothing in this post other than an opinion with no explanation or evidence.

    How can you be 100% confident they didn't bot, after agreeing that they did bot just a day or two earlier? What new evidence do you have?

    [–]mwb1234WHERESBALDO || ALL CAPS 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No throwaways please.

    [–]goodygood_274ballparts // 4Os 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    all the evidence the devs and commissioners have given

    must be satire

    [–]MrJoehobo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    DUUUUUUUUUUUde

    [–]Rudey_TagPro -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    This explains EVERYTHING! Thanks so much Dino! Case solved.

    [–]slivr33Holdmaballs::Ghostboosters 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    pls.

    [–]Rudey_TagPro -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm just glad that he took the time to bring some clarity to the situation.

    [–]bowtieTP -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    http://www.reddit.com/r/MLTP/comments/2vx52s/continuing_evidence_discussion/colomjk

    [–]BuckeyeLeavesBallDon'tLie -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Good for you, Dino.