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Cheating in MLTP (self.MLTP)

Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet が 投稿 - stickied post

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[–]GriefSeedsYe 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (64子コメント)

I have never used a bot in MLTP. I don't understand. Cflakes messaged me his bot but I told him myself that I never used it. What proof do you have? Checknate told me he would feel ditry if he used it. I'm shaking right now. I never used that stupid thing. I ignored it. Please, I don't understand.

edit: fine now, thanks for all who were worried :)

[–]PrivateMajorPrivateMajor - Rollin' Golden Boulders 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you want to discuss this matter, please send a modmail to the commissioners at /r/MLTP

[–]peckx063 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This has potential to go really badly

[–]SamSims- 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe its an elaborate scheme by yours and Checknate's parents to get you and him off tagpro, they pmed PrivateMajor paying him to make this post, Ballzilla was also paid off to make it more believable. They just want you to go outside and experience life!

[–]Splanky222BBQchicken 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"JIMMY, IT'S TIME TO GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY WITH YOUR FRIENDS!!"

"BUT MOM I NEED TO FINISH PLAYING WITH MY OTHER FRIENDS' BALLSSSS!"

[–]NotaSomeball 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For some strange reason i could imagine being told that and saying "ok, just be back before lunch."

[–]DanB23SirDan [Knights of Capalot] [Radius] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Grief ... your name makes sense now :(

[–]Thotfully_YoursMr. Thot 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fine now? Do tell.

[–]marmaris74WowSuchPro 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol, inb4 so much more drama.

[–]Lej 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

u not goin 2 jail i got u

[–]GriefSeedsYe 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Edit: Fine now ;)

[–]RiverHorsez 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Good thing this sub is loaded with 26 year old law students- I'm sure this will get sorted out grief.

[–]FaithNHumanityStatus 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Aren't we 27 now?

[–]StraightZlatCapernicus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ah what i would give to be 27 again, oh wait...

[–]king_jacobiwayne/Bop'em Plock'em Showbots 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This drama has brought River back!

[–]TPShabba 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

u r stil ok

[–]checknate1CHECKNATE// s6 & s7 Capitalists 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please is dead, use pls, pls

[–]nwokkyN Shark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

How can MLTP ban him when he claims he has not used a bot. How did you find out?

[–]Nnats 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (4子コメント)

How can MLTP ban him when he claims he has not used a bot.

is that your measurement to determine if someone has cheated or not? whether or not they admit it?

[–]SoconyPengWin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

True,

I would be lying if I said I did not suspect grief of using the bot and I was somewhat surprised when you see MLTP commishes throw the ban hammer down but yet when you see Grief sounding very genuine and claiming he did not use them, I could not help but feel a little bad for him knowing this is all sort of smoke and mirrors kind of deal. However, I still believe that the punishment was just because I doubt all five commissioners and however many devs, including LuckySpammer, would all be corrupt.

[–]BilldaCat10 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pengwin pls in IRC yesterday when i brought this up you denied it was even a possibility

[–]SoconyPengWin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah because Ash told me in mumble that I was being way too accusatory and then I was like maybe I should just avoid perpetuating the rumors until it was true, deep down I still suspected it though.

how are you talking? aren't you a racrairarroooon?

[–]nwokkyN Shark 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i guess. maybe i trust people too much

[–]-EasterEggs 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (19子コメント)

I thinks its easy to jump on this train cause he is that good. We need proof.

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet[S] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Proof has been shared with the devs and commissioners alike, as with every other case. We will not be revealing any methods used.

[–]SUpirateThePirate / 30SMB 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Is it proof of use during an MLTP game?

[–]Air_M_Jordan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would love some more transparency too, but I guess it'll come with time as botters are identified sooner and public statements are more clear.

[–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

i love how they didn't reply. smh

[–]Ballymandias// S7 Lagprone Captain // S6 KGB // 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

d0pe, eventually when people are asking questions along these lines, it's going to get to a question they cannot answer.

Ballzilla's team wasn't docked wins because he didn't use the script in an mLTP game. The same was not the case with GRIEF and CHECKNATE

[–]SUpirateThePirate / 30SMB 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This seems like the answer to the question I asked. Not sure why it would be implied but not overtly answered when asked.

The only reason I cared is because its important information in deciding if we should replay the games we lost to these teams.

[–]Ballymandias// S7 Lagprone Captain // S6 KGB // 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This seems like the answer to the question I asked.

It was answered in the OP.

Bella Flag and the Flagtones will not be replaying any matches, as we have shown that Ballzilla was not using the bot during competitive play.

[–]-EasterEggs 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Other than looking through the code, the only way i could think of you guys doing this is by using the script that shows what keys they are pressing.

[–]Nnats 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (9子コメント)

here is my guess (simplified a bit):

the devs are able to see game input data from each match. they look at the data from the person GriefSeeds is chasing, and they compare it to GriefSeeds movements. for the person Grief is chasing, they might see that he/she moved in x direction. then they look at Griefs movements and realize that he also moved in x direction one frame afterwards. considering human reaction time, that is physically impossible to do consistently. so they probably watched enough footage to see that Grief is mirroring his opponents in a completely unrealistic way far too often. that, to me at least, is sufficient evidence that a person is using a bot.

[–]adhi-adhi | RIP SOAS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

simply put:

  1. log chaser inputs 5 seconds before the return

  2. log fc inputs 5 seconds before the return

  3. log pings of both of the players

  4. compare the data.

[–]wacrover 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Simply

[–]TagProNoah 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

What if he was just predicting movement? That's what MLTP players do.

[–]Nnats 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's two big issues with that idea.

  1. Bots and micro-jukes.

Humans only predict larger movements, such as a complete change in direction. Humans don't predict micro-movements. It would be an awful idea and very ineffective to even try. Because of this fact, we can watch how a suspect defender "reacts" to these micro-movements. If they react within 1-2 frames, then that is very suspicious. Which leads me to my next point...

  1. Consistency

Consistency is a huge factor when it comes to this. If someone is reviewing my gameplay and sees that I reacted to a micro-juke in 1-2 frames, that isn't enough to call me a cheater. however, if they see that I react to every micro-juke from multiple players in 1-2 frames, that's very unrealistic and valid proof for botting.

[–]TagProNoah 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree with your point about consistency, but there are people who can be really accurate with their predictions. Turbo comes to mind.

And you can predict double jukes (pump fakes). It's not just single jukes that players predict.

[–]wacrover 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Predict vs foresee.

Predictions, by their nature, will be incorrect sometimes. If the predictions were consistently right, then it's almost impossible for it to have not been foresight.

[–]z_42Ballrog // CoSinners S4 mLTP Winners // Ballchimedes S5 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just to poke a hole in this theory:

Whatever scripts a player uses must act on the client-side, and so the information they get and the information they send is subject to a delay equal to the player's ping. There'd probably be more than one frame of "reaction time" even if it was a bot.

[–]Nnats 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

of course. as i said, it was simplified a bit for the sake of conveying a message.

with that being said, it doesn't change the overall point i was making in the slightest.

[–]adhi-adhi | RIP SOAS 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

would be so simple for devs to log ping and do the math

[–]nwokkyN Shark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seems kind of unfair tbh. but whatevs

[–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]slivr33Holdmaballs::Ghostboosters 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    The issue is that players get banned from tagpro for using bots in pubs. If he used it anywhere else it's offendable.

    [–]MoJoSto 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    the official statement implies that he was caught using it during a competitive match. Ballzilla's team will not be forced to replay their matches as he was not caught using one during any matches.

    [–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    that I never used it

    I never used that stupid thing

    [–]slivr33Holdmaballs::Ghostboosters 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    First he said in MLTP, then he said at all. Idk I'm skeptical at best.

    [–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There's no need to pick apart his statements. Please refrain from it.

    [–]BuckeyeLeavesBallDon'tLie 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think he was just restating that he never used it in MLTP, but I don't know maybe I'm reading it wrong.

    [–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    that is how i saw it too

    [–]DaEvil1 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    As far as I understand the devs didn't find proof that you were botting, and it was a decision made by the commisioners.

    EDIT: I've been told my original statement is mistaken by both commisioners and developers.

    [–]SUpirateThePirate / 30SMB 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This is directly contradictory to what has been stated officially. I want to give the benefit the doubt as much as possible, but I also don't think the leadership is dumb enough to do this without concrete proof.

    [–]DaEvil1 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes, I may be wrong here, or maybe I misunderstood what was said, but as far as I understood, this was a commissioner decision.

    [–]jjpoole7jjpoole 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Don't make shit up.

    [–]DaEvil1 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Newcompte told me like 10 minutes ago...

    [–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    NewCompte was not involved with Griefseeds' collection or review. I understand how he is uninformed on this case, but you are in fact wrong.

    [–]DaEvil1 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I just talked to Newcompte, and he confirmed there was evidence for this. Sorry for speaking too soon.

    [–]Thotfully_YoursMr. Thot 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Hold up, really?! That doesn't seem like reason enough to warrant a ban for life...

    [–]BuckeyeLeavesBallDon'tLie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    wait WHAT?!