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Cheating in MLTP (self.MLTP)

Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet が 投稿 - stickied post

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[–]rke12Ballzilla 116 ポイント117 ポイント  (52子コメント)

I just want to clear the air here about myself.

When cflakes left and deleted all of his scripts, I pulled up cached copies of them through google with the intent to rehost them incase anyone we looking for them, such as the honking script. I basically just copied the code and pasted all of the ones i could find into tampermonkey. One of these happened to be the very basic starter bot that was available on r/tagprobots. I was testing the scripts on newcomptes maptest server, kind of weeding through them. This bot wasn't even something thats usable in an actual game. It literally just sits on flag, then runs into spikes and gates if someone gets the flag. Not one of the polished bots that others have had.

Well, I join a pub the other day, and notice that I can't move my ball. Its just sitting there, someone gets flag and it goes after them. It then hit me what was up, the bot script was on. I turned it off in tampermonkey, refreshed, and kept playing.

All of this was done on my work pc, which I sometimes jump into games during lunch or breaks to get a few in. I haven't even been playing with stats on when I play here due to often getting lag bad enough I have to leave the game. I know there is 0% tolerance of having any kind of bot active in pubs, so if I'm banned from tagpro I understand. In no way was I using a bot to cheat or get any kind of advantage.

[–]adhi-modSOHB | 2K1ASA 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

dude, that sucks. i believe you personally and i hope this can be resolved.

[–]stu-Stu. 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

when I saw you got banned without doing it competitively, I was thinking of the scenario where you prob just kinda googled it or something, and tried it out for a few pubs 'cause maybe you were curious how it worked and then immediately stopped. I was thinking if you got banned permanently for that then that would really really suck.

This explanation seems way more innocent and honestly what I expect to be true (though I obv wouldn't know) and I really hope you can talk to the devs/comissioners about it.

[–]AMorporkAnkhMorpork | Ankyloblepharons 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Accidentally left on or not makes no difference to the TagPro ban. We are adopting a 0 tolerance policy.

As for the league front, that's up to the commissioners. We don't directly interfere in league proceedings.

[–]stu-Stu. 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, the TagPro 1 month ban or whatever is fine. If it was an accident, fine, just wait a month. We'll accept the reality that there will be accidental punishments in order to bring the greater good. Whatever.

The commissioner decision, though, is very different.

[–]-Time-LP^2 >> BNB >> retired 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Doesn't that leave a lot of room for abuse?

Say someone posts a script to the subreddit that they claim does one thing, but it's actually a bot. Would anyone who unwittingly installs and uses the script, even for just a minute before they realize it's actually a bot, also receive a zero tolerance 3 month ban?

I know no javascript myself, so if it were a particularly long and complex script, I certainly wouldn't be able to check and make sure it was what the person claimed it was if they were lying and it was a bot in an attempt to get people banned.

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is something that everyone should take note of.

Scripts can be dangerous. You should ALWAYS make sure you trust anything you install on your computer, especially if you have information on that computer that you find important or private. If you use your computer for work, doubly so.

I would think officially approved scripts would be ideal, but that is up to the devs. It would help people who don't know what they're looking at with scripts.

[–]nolanizerCosine 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would think officially approved scripts would be ideal

Indeed, especially considering that in the words of the developers, "there are no approved scripts."

[–]Aaron215MLTP: Streamer for Roll Models // USC: Cappin' Planet[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I think that's fair though. They release the game as it is intended, and modders do what they will with that.

Do many other games have officially approved mods? I think we as a community could self manage the wiki to be safe, and separate it to include league approved and pub approved scripts. Then maybe notes on them if one is not approved for the other, and some way to confirm they are safe. The issue is that the wiki can be edited with anyone who has over a certain level of comment karma on the subreddit, and anyone can change a link to a malicious script. We'd need it hosted offsite securely and then by someone people trust, which I would say again would ideally be devs. You see the issue here :-P If they don't want to do it, that's totally their call, and a fair one in my opinion. I just think people need to be WAY more careful in picking up scripts. Always check it, or run it through some people in #tagproscripts or whatever it is on IRC.

[–]SoconyPengWin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do many games have officially approved mods?

No but not many games' own devs write their own mods and then release it to the public either.

[–]dccarlove 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think based on the fact that even the rules committee admits you weren't using the bots in any competitive games and you are still being banned is a little absurd to me. I can understand a few weeks or even the season if you will for using the bot in a PUB, but for life is a bit harsh for something that had no effect on the outcome of the games.

EDIT: I also understand being banned from tagpro for using bots in PUBs and I stand by the Devs in saying bots will not be tolerated at all. That said. If you are telling the truth and you only had the bot on in a PUB for a few seconds and it had no major effect on that PUB, then being banned from tagpro is also a little harsh. You are basically being pushed for being forgetful at that point more than for using a bot in game. Again. I am saying all this based on the fact that your story is truthful.

[–]Nnats 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, there definitely needs to be a distinction from players who cheated in competitive play (permanent ban is fitting IMO) and players who cheated in pubs (a season ban would be more than enough to me).

[–]dccarlove 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Much agree. I think Balls ban stems most from the ban from tagpro if you are caught using a bot in PUBs, and like I said. I can stand behind that. But if he really only did use a bot for a matter of only a few seconds. Then is banning him from tagpro really appropriate? As I said. It seems like at that point he is being punished greatly just for being forgetful.

[–]BeardMilk -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

players who cheated in pubs

This is still incredibly selfish and shitty behavior. A permanent ban for these assholes is fine by me.

[–]RonSpawnsonTP 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ballzilla, the starter bot from CFlakes you are mentioning is purposefully designed to only run on test servers. The header would have to have been manually edited to allow it to run on production servers.

[–]quassuscrosky | Tears 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Is this true?

[–]goodygood_274ballparts // 4Os 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

it definitely wasn't always true. he may have changed it, but when i downloaded it around the time of the bot battle, it had http://tagpro-*.koalabeast.com:* in the header.

[–]ProfessorTag 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to every cached and forked copy that I can find, this is not true.

Edit: Here is a revision history of the starter bot from its creation date (Sep 2, 2014):

https://gist.github.com/justinpchang/e298ac2a3cbf286c5a7a/revisions

The @include lines change once to include NewCompte's Oceanic and North American servers.

http://tagpro-*.koalabeast.com:* was never included.

[–]RonSpawnsonTP 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You must be thinking of a different starter bot. Ballzilla was explicitly clear that this was cflakes starter bot and as already stated, if you see the revision history no production servers were ever included in the header.

I wanted to believe ballzilla as much as the next guy, but this certainly could make a guy second guess his story.

[–]goodygood_274ballparts // 4Os 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah that's very possible. I didn't think about that. I don't remember whose I downloaded or where it came from. The version I have has the header info I posted and tampermonkey says I haven't edited it since like late september (and I definitely didn't add in the production servers myself), so I assumed it was the same script.

Edit: Yeah that makes ballzilla's story seem less credible to me.

[–]teddbearteddybear 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whatever the truth may be, I hope this is looked into more.

[–]MofoSamson 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think that the ban on you caught most people off guard. From what I'm gathering, no one has ever suspected you of cheating or botting. It sounds like a "wrong script, wrong time" sort of mistake. Your stats from MLTP don't reflect even the slightest of cheating in game. I want to believe that you wouldn't do this. You seem to be another one of those players that has too much pride to choose cheating in order to win. You've always struck me as the type to appreciate knowing you tried your best, regardless of the outcome. I always enjoyed our pubs on Origin. Definitely one of my favorite partners and least favorite opponents. I can only hope the mods have some sort of appeal so you can explain yourself and clear your name. This is all assuming that there isn't more evidence against you. I, and so many others, want your disclosure to be the complete truth. Dark times....

[–]ButterChurnButter Churn 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Your stats from MLTP don't reflect even the slightest of cheating in game.

ouch

[–]MofoSamson 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Lol Not what I meant but season stats don't really carry a lot of weight when it comes to who is a good player or not. But if someone was cheating effectively their stats would reflect as such. The only explanation would be picking your mistakes to lower your game stats. I don't believe 'zilla would do this. He has a lot of respect for this game and community.

[–]dandeliondreamerE / LagProne 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can just say it. I carry the Flagtone defence.

[–]MofoSamson 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant. Forget all that other stuff.

[–]ButterChurnButter Churn 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I agree, it just sounded funny.

[–]BallerOnABudget_d0pe 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Speaking as someone who used to play with Zilla many times weeks back, you're definitely not the type of dude to go about cheating. You're super humble and honestly one of the few people I've met that are genuinely skilled enough on D but still slip up and make mistakes. I was really surprised to see your name on the list because you're not the type of dude to cheat. I believe your story...

[–]-EasterEggs 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think i can speak for Pi players in general when we say we know Ballzilla doesn't cheat ;).

His O is why he shines.

[–]Teh42 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ballzilla is the bestest. <3

[–]DatBlizzard 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hmm. The ban in your case seems to come from the devs, which I assume would mean it's based on more than just reviewing footage of your playing. From your description of using a bot for all of 15 seconds, I find it hard to believe the devs would even detect your bot usage.

Now if the bot script was on, a guy grabbed, and you chased him down clearly mirroring his movement as only a bot can, then I can see how it happened. The devs could probably add in something server-side to check for cheating by detecting the time between the other ball's inputs and your own (and see if their mirror movements). So even if it only happened once that'd be enough.

Still though, you grabbed cached copies of cflakes scripts when he left, and then you join just 1 pub and quickly disable the script? And what was the time frame between "when clfakes left" and you downloaded his scripts and "the other day" when you joined a pub, you couldn't have played in between or you would've noticed the bot then? I don't know, just seems too minor to have resulted in a ban. Either you're not telling us everything or maybe the devs went overboard.

[–]LEBRONstarJAMES 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

or maybe the devs went overboard

[–]Kermit_leadfoot 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

#FreeBallzilla

[–]Extractum11 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ankh also mentioned that they were very conservative, so I'll agree that this sounds hard to believe.

[–]DatBlizzard 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he was referring to their methods of detection and not the frequency of abuse when he mentioned being conservative.

[–]Sosen 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are you kidding me right now?

Like, if you're being honest, which I strongly feel that you are, this is even more upsetting to me than the people who were using bots to cheat. :(

[–]rke12Ballzilla 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well, from the devs point of view there was a bot active in a pub under my account. I'm guessing they didn't know it was accidental or for such a short period of time. But it's their rules, and I understand where they come from on the subject.

I mean, you can see here that it was installed 16 days ago which was like a day or 2 after cflakes left. Also notice the Honk script, it was edited and re-installed after some reported an issue with it, so 11 days ago. I'm being completely honest when I was I was seeing if there were any useful scripts that needed rehosted, with no intent to bot or cheat. At the end of the day, I only put the honk script up, along with a howler script that the honk script needed. I decided the other scripts either didn't work in the new version of tagpro, or really shouldn't be available to players.

At the end of the day, I'm ok with whatever punishment the MLTP rules guys or the devs decide. It's their league/game, respectively. And I know there intent is to keep the game honest.

[–]the_sidewalk_endssidewalk // Probots // Captain 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry Ballzilla :(

You don't deserve this.

[–]tagproHELENSad Helen | ALL CAPS 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nah dude, if they're going to be dealing out these harsh-ass punishments without even opening dialogue with all the relevant parties to understand the whole context, then there needs to be an appeals process.

[–]BeastMode3333 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (6子コメント)

If that is true, which I believe it is, I think that any sort of ban you get is complete bullshit.

[–]Tim-Sanchez//ELTP 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (5子コメント)

How can mods prove if it is true or not? All they know is that he used a bot in pubs which is against the rules, they can't prove the circumstances. It's like when someone says "I didn't work against team/use offensive language, my brother logged on and did it!" That might be true, but all we know is that they broke the rules so got a ban.

[–]BeastMode3333 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I honestly have no clue how the mods can prove anything. I figured you would be able to find out because you were able to see that he didnt bot in mltp. However, if you cannot find out when exactly he botted, then this is an unfortunate situation, but y'all made the correct decision.

[–]Tim-Sanchez//ELTP 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not in charge of MLTP, I'm speaking in terms of the ban he receives in-game. That ban will be legitimate, he broke the rules on his account.

[–]piranhamoose25 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Couldn't they know if he only used it for one game, as he says?

[–]Tim-Sanchez//ELTP 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly have no idea how it is worked out. All I know is that they worked it out somehow. Maybe they could, maybe not.

[–]spacecadetjerDennit 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would find a safe house and lay low for a few days. Things are scary out here.

If what you said it true tho, that's an unfortunate series of events. If there was a way to work through and confirm that maybe the devs could work with you.

[–]ThatKid3219 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man that really sucks. I mean, I'm not one to argue with the ban because there's no way to technically "prove" you didn't do it on purpose, but if what you've said is true, which I believe it is, the ban is undeserved.

As long as I'm here, can I ask... If you're banned from the top-tier league, does that auto-ban you from the lower leagues such as NLTP?

[–]fozzyboyFozzy | Ghostboosters | Radius 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I doubt you had any intention to cheat and would be in favor of petitioning to appeal the ruling. Best of luck to you.

[–]NotaSomeball 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you were banned for that bot, it would be very sad because cheating means you're getting an unfair advantage, while that bot sounds like it was actually hurting, not helping, your level of play.