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A gynecologist recently got his license revoked for having consensual sexual encounters with patients. Why does the mainstream media have trouble understanding that sexual relations between journalists and the subjects that they cover represents a conflict of interest? (thesmokinggun.com)

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[–]unsafeideas 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (70子コメント)

Call me contrarian, but consensual sexual encounter between him and patient should not be ground for license revocation. Consensual sexual encounters between adults are not other peoples business (with exception of cheated on spouses), regardless of how much you disagree with that sex. This is just an example of powers to be moving towards puritanism trying to police private and sexual lives of adults.

When journalist or reviewer gives positive coverage, he/she should disclose also non-sexual relationships. Undisclosed positive coverage or review of close friend game is a problem even if those two never had sex.

[–]cha0s 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (69子コメント)

No. A doctor is in a position of authority over his patients. This is completely inappropriate and labeling criticism 'Puritanism' is incredibly immature and reckless.

[–]unsafeideas 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Define position of authority? His job is to cure me and give me health advice. He can not get me fired. He can not arrest me. He can not do anything except what is already his job and I can change the doctor easily.

So yeah, as long as it is consensual and not during paid time, he can have sex as he pleases.

Labeling whole categories of consensual non-problematic human relationships as punishable offenses just because someone somewhere could theoretically act in bad faith is immature and reckless. While you are making it easier to punish something bad when that bad happen, you are also making it way to easy to punish a lot of non harming behavior.

The goal should not be to punish as many people as possible, the goal should be to punish those who harm and abuse others.

[–]cha0s 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

He can have you committed to a mental institution, for one.

[–]unsafeideas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Gynecologist? No, he can not. And generally speaking, bar for putting someone into mental institution against his will is very high in USA.

[–]cha0s 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why don't you read this http://www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/21170.asp

I am absolutely dumbfounded that you can feign interest in 'ethics' and then advocate for doctor-patient relationships.

[–]Chris23235 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (62子コメント)

Adults are free to have sex with each other. Revoking a license over consensual sex between adults is saying a doctor doesn't have the same rights to choose his sexual partner like everybody else. It's wrong.

[–]dreadlordgigex 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (45子コメント)

He should stop seeing her as a patient.

Then there is no problem.

[–]Chris23235 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (44子コメント)

Why? If my wife is a doctor, she is of course allowed to treat me as a patient.

[–]chungEchungs 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (30子コメント)

I'm guessing your wife didn't make a pass at you on the examination table though which is a crucial difference.

[–]Chris23235 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (29子コメント)

That's something you can fire a doctor for, but it's not something you should revoke his/her license for.

[–]chungEchungs 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Quit moving the goalposts its unethical behavior either way.

[–]Chris23235 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (27子コメント)

No, this has nothing to do with ethics and a lot to do with moral values, it's against your moral values, that's all.

[–]chungEchungs 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (26子コメント)

Why don't you take a look at the document that Chaos linked. Its very much unethical behavior. If you can get fired for it its probably pretty unethical.

Or here have a look at this: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics/opinion10015.page

[–]cha0s 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

the decision to treat by the physician may compromise good care for his or her spouse. It is recommended that physicians and their spouses have an alternative, nonrelated physician to care for their health.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6726135

[–]Chris23235 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

recommended

not forbidden. Many things are recommended and physicians don't get their license revoked, if they don't do it, e.g. it is recommended, that a physician doesn't smoke, but is the license of a doctor is revoked, if he is caught smoking?

[–]cha0s 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Why are you even in KiA when it's obvious your preference for ethics is essentially nil? Serious question.

[–]chungEchungs 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This guy has absolutely no idea what he's talking about in regard to ethics. Its really embarassing that this stuff is getting upvoted.

[–]cha0s 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey, we take the bad with the good. I'd rather have people allowed to express themselves than banned even if their ideas are bad.

[–]Chris23235 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Could you define ethics to me? It seems you confuse it constantly with moral views.

[–]dreadlordgigex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is she allowed to put the hospital in legal jeopardy by fucking you in her office too?

[–]cha0s 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

No that isn't what it says at all. It says you don't have a right to have a sexual relationship with someone you are in a position of authority over.

Is it perfectly okay for a police officer to fuck a girl and then coincidentally let her off with just a warning?

[–]unsafeideas -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Police officers are allowed to have kids, so yeah, male cops at some point fuck girls. Exchanging warning for sex is abuse of power. Demanding sex from arested is abuse of power or rape.

Police officers is in entirely different position then doctor.

[–]Chris23235 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Bad comparsion, a doctor is no police officer and of course any police officer is free to sleep with a woman, not on the police station, because being in custody means no sex, but if she decides to visit him at home the next day (or if she invites him to her home the next day) both are free to sleep with each other. Letting somebody off with just a warning, when a warrant would be appropriate is a violation of law, this has nothing to do with the question if both people had sex with each other.

[–]cha0s 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Letting somebody off with just a warning, when a warrant would be appropriate is a violation of law

It doesn't have to be "where a warrant is appropriate". How about for speeding? BJ for no ticket, that cool?

How about BJ for not having you committed for being crazy?

[–]Chris23235 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

To fast is to fast, to fast means ticket, if the officer doesn't hand out a ticket, when a ticket should be handed out, he is acting against the law.

[–]cha0s 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of discretion.

[–]Chris23235 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of discretion.

Firsts words in the article you linked:

Police discretion is a vague term that has an appropriately vague definition.

It's not a concept and it's not something an officer can rely on.

[–]cha0s 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Facepalm

[–]violentevolution 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

A better analogy is a professional, school appointed tutor. The authority is perceived by expertise, same as a doctor. There is no ethical breach of sleeping with a past student (if enough time passes to imply that said relationship was going on while teaching them). However, there is a huge ethical breach of fucking a current student. Just like journalism, you loose your perspective regarding the subject, and must recuse yourself

[–]Chris23235 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The student/tutor relationship is completely different and unique, the problem lies within the fact, that it's impossible to see if the grades are fair, or if they are because of the relationship. This problem can't be solved with a disclaimer like in journalism and it's not comparable to a doctor/patient relationship. The student has to live with the grades after he/she leaves school.

[–]violentevolution 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I did not say teacher. I said school appointed tutor. Tutors do not grade, they simply teach in a 1 on 1 basis. There are always other tutors or doctors one can go to, so recusal possible.

I will give an example of emotional bias regarding a doctor. You are in a relationship with someone who has a fear of things up their ass, and don't like colonoscopies. So only gets them the bare minimum. You do a colonoscopy on your gf, and find a large polyp. You have 3 options, remove it, biopsy it and remove it later, or setup and operation to remove part of the colon.

Your decision will be effected by your loss of perspective, good or bad. She has a fear that you do not want to trigger, as her bf, as a doctor you can not be effected by such things

[–]Chris23235 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My apologies, I misread what you said. With a tutor, I don't see any problem. At least not if we talk about adults here. It's always different with minors and we have laws that deal with it.

[–]violentevolution 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am referring to adults only. I made an edit with example in the previous post

[–]Chris23235 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I will give an example of emotional bias regarding a doctor. You are in a relationship with someone who has a fear of things up their ass, and don't like colonoscopies. So only gets them the bare minimum. You do a colonoscopy on your gf, and find a large polyp. You have 3 options, remove it, biopsy it and remove it later, or setup and operation to remove part of the colon.

Your decision will be effected by your loss of perspective, good or bad. She has a fear that you do not want to trigger, as her bf, as a doctor you can not be effected by such things

That's a pretty good example at first sight, but on second sight, you will see every doctor, is t affected by the fears of the patient. You can also argue, that a doctor in a relationship with the patient can act much more in the interests of the patient, vecause if your gf is afraid of colonoscopies, you as her bf knows best a) how often she does a colonoscopy and you can try to persuade her in doing it more often with a much bigger chance of success then any other doctor and b) talk with her about the available options much better then any doctor she is not in a relationship with, because you know her better then any other person in the world.

In the end, it's always her decision what of your 3 options she takes. The patient decides in the end about an operation, not the doctor.