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OCSexual Taboo Survey Results [OC] (i.imgur.com)

anthonyd3ca が 投稿

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[–]xGingerGiant 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (76子コメント)

I'm amazed by the number of men who wanna bang a child 14 or under. That's some fucked up shit.

[–]OmicronNine 186 ポイント187 ポイント  (19子コメント)

That wasn't the question. The question was whether the idea sexually arouses them.

It's entirely possible to be aroused by something sexual that also repulses you, and that you would never want to do. Sexual arousal is not really within conscious control.

[–]Natdaprat 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I can attest to having some shameful boners on my journey around the internet. Nothing quite like pedophilia, more like incest.

[–]smasters908 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (5子コメント)

We all have that hot cousin.

[–]MacheteDont 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

"– I didn't clean my room, mother. What are you going to do about it?" (To clarify: I'm only joking.)

[–]Gidding 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

WHAT YOU GONNA DO, BREAK MY ARMS??!

*wink*

[–]SerPuissance 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But is that cousin dangereuses?

[–]Kindness4Weakness 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or mom

[–]FartingBob 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

We've all fantasized about breaking our arms, right?

[–]SerPuissance 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every goddamn thread.

[–]MacheteDont 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, roughly 80% of internet pr0n will probably induce a shameful boner nowadays anyway, even with two consenting adults involved in the graphic act.

[–]austin101123 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Exactly. Look at all the people that said they get aroused by rape. (Getting raped or raping?)

Edit: but what the fuck those incest numbers.

[–]cnutnuggets 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah, someone with a rape fetish doesn't necessarily mean they actually want to get raped nor is that an invitation to rape.

Fetish =/= Wanting or doing something illegal or harmful

[–]austin101123 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Well if you had a rape fetish I think that means you would want to get raped.

This is just talking about arousal though.

[–]cnutnuggets 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well if you had a rape fetish I think that means you would want to get raped.

Preferably by an SO, with a safeword.

Not by a random schizophrenic hobo in a park with a threat of murder.

Fetish is basically sexual fantasy. It's a thing to arouse excitement in life, not something you get PTSD from.

[–]austin101123 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If it's by an SO with a safeword that sounds more like just forceful sex or something? Sounds like you'd be consenting then and therefore not rape.

[–]cnutnuggets 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are technically correct but that's not how fetish works. It's an intense obsession, not to the actual thing, but to the concept of it.

Otherwise people with Autassassinophila and Vorarephilia would all be dead.

[–]seemedlikeagoodplan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's also a huge difference between "I find X arousing" and "I would do X given the chance". I may find Anna Kendrick attractive, but I'm happily married and would never act on that even if I had the opportunity. I don't think that someone's attraction to underage girls or boys is really anyone else's business... unless that attraction is also paired with a dodgy moral compass, or poor impulse control.

[–]anthonyd3ca[S] 85 ポイント86 ポイント  (23子コメント)

I'll shed some more light on the data since it couldn't all be represented in this one graph. There were a total of 28 males who responded "Yes" to that question. 7 of them were aged 17 or lower. 15 of them aged 18-23. The other 6 were older.

[–]Nowin 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So 21 of the 375 men were over 18, which is 5.6%. The prevalence of pedophilia isn't known, but it's estimated to be under 5%, so these numbers aren't actually that surprising.

[–]MindStalker 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (5子コメント)

And only 3% of those over 23.

[–]gnathan87 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FWIW, your results in this category are pretty much exactly in line with existing research. I recently commented on this here.

[–]bankerman 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The study was also framed poorly in my opinion. Plenty of guys are into girls any time after puberty, so around 13 or 14 (still also within the definition of teenage). Pedophilia is specifically the attraction to pre-pubescent children. In my opinion it would've been smarter to draw the lines at 13-17 and then 12 and under.

[–]KingBebee 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Interesting fact: Anthropologically speaking, we're fairly certain that women did not menstruate until around the age of 18 in the pre-agriculture eras due to low-body fat.

I've always made the same argument you're making, and still could because you're not wrong, but it's interesting to note that the "age of consent" being proposed to be 18 is actually not far off from a historical truth concerning the age of menstruation.

Source - Chris Ryan's "Sex at Dawn," and a sidenote from material I've had to cover in my Child Psych class.

[–]OseanStratagy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the pre-agriculture eras due to low-body fat

that's interesting, so if I'm understanding correctly here: in hunter-gatherer societies (or pre-neolithic revolution societies) women menstruated around 18. Do we have any data about what age you were considered an adult (in whatever capacity that looked like) or when you were able to marry/have sex/etc?

Also do we have any data or insight into when menstruation began to happen earlier? And what the social ramifications of that were?

[–]austin101123 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But a lot of them menstrate way earlier now. My sister started at 9.

[–]KingBebee 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It has a lot to do with modern diets and lifestyles. Just because they do start early now, doesn't necessarily mean that they should start early. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. I really wasn't making an argument for anything. Just sharing some facts I've learned is all...

[–]whybother0 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't doubt that, but younger menstruation also means younger sexual development.

[–]KingBebee 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It might, but I wasn't really making any comment about such things. I was merely expressing an anthropological fact.

I will say though, that just because a young girl is experiencing a younger sexual development than her ancestors does not mean that she is experiencing her cognitive development at a faster rate also. I would tread lightly on the idea that just because they sexually mature faster means they are ready for sex.

[–]justahoustonpervert 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am curious as to how the data was collected. I'd hunt it down through the thread, but I haven't had my coffee yet.

[–]Lu_the_Mad 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did the other six share an IP from a private island owned by Jeffrey Epstein?

[–]robostanleys 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should have clearly separted out girls that were in pre-pubescent and those that weren't. Basically all girls have hit puberty by 14

[–]atzenkatzen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why couldn't you have included that in the graph?

[–]hc9 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm amazed by the number of men who wanna bang a child 14 or under. That's some fucked up shit.

Maybe they mostly just wanna do 14 year olds.

Also, you have to keep in mind people aren't necessarily honest when answering these things.

[–]seemedlikeagoodplan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What, you mean people lie on the internet?

[–]mypasswordwaslost 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Is it really?

It wasn't that long ago that getting married at 14 was considered normal.

Think about how early humans go through puberty.

It's only fucked up when viewed in the mindset of the present day, and there are still places you could probably get married at 14. Factually, it seems pretty normal. The entire "18" thing is an arbitrary age we've set aside, which causes an entire host of problems that aren't really problems at all. Underage sex isn't a thing. A biologically mature organism is biologically mature. [Edit for clarity: Biologically mature as in being able to bear children and have a pretty prominent libido. Regardless of whether it's the right wording for what I meant, it's what I chose when typing so I'll leave it as is.]

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong in a "moral" sense, because biology does not care about right or wrong. But it's important to remember that the debate is a moral one, and as such everyone will have their own "right". I personally prefer to date someone relatively close to my age as it usually gives better interest and belief overlap. Plus the survey was about sexual fantasies and not necessarily healthy relationships.

It's an important thing to keep in mind that a lot of the stuff society in general might see as "fucked up" can have valid arguments for them as well, it just becomes a matter of rational thinking and weighing out each side to see which one you'd rather go with. Most people don't get that opportunity before others have forced them into that line of thinking. Makes for compliant societies, not necessarily compassionate ones.

[–]gigs1890 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have several problems with this line of thinking:

1) Appealing to history or tradition doesn't make it a good argument. We all agree that slavery is bad, despite slavery being a part of nearly every major empire in the past.

2) A 14 year old who has gone through puberty isn't developed. They are developing. As in, their body has started the process of being a fully developed adult able to do fully developed adult things, but isn't there yet. 14 year old's, by any and every definition, are not biologically mature.

3) The last parts of the brain to develop are those governing decision making, emotional response, and response to threats, and these do not fully develop until the early 20's. (My source is the child and adolescent development textbook in front of me, but I can try to find something online if you like.) A 14 year old does not have the same cognitive development as an adult, and an adult seeking a relationship with a child that young is a mental health issue.

[–]mypasswordwaslost 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was bringing up history to show that many moral values are based on group thinking rather than good points. Not everyone agrees slavery is a bad thing, otherwise there would be no slavery.

As far as biology is concerned, they've matured enough sexually to produce offspring. In the wild, does an animal need to be mature in every aspect to undergo sexual reproduction? It is not by any and every definition, it is by some definition that we've chosen. They may not be done growing, but total development is not needed to successfully mate.

Near the end of my post I state this survey is about sexual fantasies as opposed to healthy relationships. I also bring up why I look for what I look for in a relationship.

A lot of what you said is good, and I do not need sources as I'm pretty sure most of what you said is true to a factual nature, but how one chooses to interpret the facts is and of itself an opinion. Which is why I repeatedly stated I am not for or against what I'm saying, but I will say it as it is simply questioning a stance. If you have problems with it and feel you can justify your beliefs, that's fine. I'd rather someone question their stance and come up with an answer backed with scientific inquiry than simply saying "it's fucked up" and using societal norms in place of rational reasons.

Edit: Put simply, I do not find it objectively "fucked up" that an older person be sexually attracted to someone sexually maturing. The further back in age you go the less credence I'd give to this stance as they lose sexual characteristics, and eventually it does develop into something that I would find a hard time thinking of objective facts to lend it any credence. But to say being attracted to a 14 year old on a physical level is a mental disorder is a bit much. I personally wouldn't find most girls that age sexually appealing, but to follow your argument underlying premise, I shouldn't find anyone developing attractive, which would push the age into the 20s, which is objectively unreasonable. The point is where you draw the line is arbitrary and there should be an open discussion, not a "this is fucked up" glossing over of the issue.

[–]gigs1890 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I never said anything was objectively "fucked up". I said an adult seeking a relationship with someone 14 years old or younger should be considered a mental health issue. I didn't say "finding a 14 year old attractive on a physical level" either, don't put words into my mouth.

One can talk about what happens in the wild, but we are not in the wild. We have formed societies and are capable of higher thought than animals, and that can't be ignored. We have empathy and sympathy and an understanding of what is good and bad for ourselves and for each other, on a personal and a societal level.

The main two issues I have with your original argument that I had hoped to point to in my post was:

1) Puberty is not the be all and end all of development. It is only the first stage, and the fact that a given 14 year old is physically capable of having children does not say anything about the morality of an adult having a relationship with a 14 year old.

I have a follow up regarding the history point but I'm having trouble wording it some I'm just going to leave it out for now

[–]mypasswordwaslost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry if I put words in your mouth, that was not my intention. My original post was based in the intention of questioning why it's fucked up in this context, as a sexual taboo. There's no broader assumption of relationship inherent with a strictly sexual discussion. I brought in historical context with regard for relationships to show that side is purely societal.

I agree, which is why I question the conclusions we've come to as a society. The reaction of "someone wants to have sex with a 14 year old? that's fucked up" was something I had a bit of an issue with, so I questioned it. You can't judge someone based on a single statement, so I tried to expand upon what line of thinking someone might be having to reach that conclusion. I could very well be wrong, and I'm open to changing my argument if necessary.

I agree/disagree. It all depends on the circumstance of the situation. As we decided with us not being in the wild. It eventually boils down to whatever society chooses to do. I'm merely advocating questioning our standards so that we might better understand why we've chosen them and whether we should change them. Discussions like these must happen if we want to be sure of what we're doing. Simply saying "kids" having sex is wrong because it's wrong offers no reasons or pathway to solutions should problems emerge. Like this whole sexting issue with teenagers. It's a nonissue because it's not morally reprehensible, there's nothing sinister about it. The fact that one could be charged with child pornography for taking a picture of themselves is a bit insane, to me.

What we should realistically be looking at, as you've pointed out, is relationships between people of differing ages. I would not find it extreme that a 14 and 15 year old were in a sexual relationship, so the issue shouldn't be people of that age having sex.

Having a society that has an unhealthy relationship with sex in the first place will generate problems on its own. Simply look at how the US has handled safe sex. It's been so tinged by philosophies that it's sometimes a fight to have facts reasonably presented. The facts should always be available to be analyzed, allowing whole ideas to form and morals that make sense to take place.

[–]Volapukajo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Life expectancies were much shorter as well. That skewed people to starting everything in life sooner.

[–]darklord0211 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Biologically, it made sense a long time ago to have children at a younger age. But you're forgetting something, people who are 14 or younger may not be able to fully understand what they're getting into and also that there is no way for them to fight back against anything the person that they are marrying does.

[–]mypasswordwaslost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Human biology, for the most part, has not changed within the timescales we're looking at.

Didn't forget it, simply left it out. The focus is on whether or not you'd have sex with someone that age. I'm happy to broaden the discussion, but the premises must be decided upon first. Being sexually attracted to a 14 year old is a physiological response, so it should not be treated as a morality based decision. I never said it was good or bad, I'm simply trying to piece together what the facts are.

Fully understand in what way? It all depends on what the circumstances are. The point I'm making is not what's right or wrong, but that we should be open to questioning and reevaluating our moral positions. If even one thing doesn't make sense, it means there's a disconnect somewhere that should at least be understood. If we want to take a stance on something, we should fully understand the reasons and possible repercussions of it.

[–]neo7 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually I am surprised it's not more than that

[–]Nacksche 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"14 or lower" is just completely useless wording. A ton of 17yos would probably say yes, but would not be interested in actual children like 7yos.

[–]I2obiN 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What OmicronNine said, plus there's a good chance it's just sample error.

[–]Lu_the_Mad 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of them are 14-18 year old boys though who picked that answer.

And the rest are Congressmen and Senators and Ex Presidents who visited Jeffrey Epstein's island.

So the only people who were choosing that option were people who do that sort of thing regularly and for who its not illegal, either because they are young kids themselves or because they are rich liberal politicians with powerful connections.

[–]ShitlordX 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The percentage of men with pedophilic urges is estimated at being around 7% (note, this is urges not actions).

It is unfortunate that the survey didn't ask anything about same-sex alignment. We know that the nationwide prevalence of being gay is roughly 3% so it would have been a good control question to judge accuracy of the survey.

[–]robostanleys 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair it's not a very good question. I think you'd see a different result if it was phrased differently or split into two.

Phrased differently:

Are you sexually aroused by pre-pubescent girls?

Then you'd have to add

Are you sexually aroused by girls that are just entering puberty?

Different age ranges:

Are you sexually aroused by girls 10 and under

Are you sexually aroused by girls 11-14 (or 12-14)

My guess is that you'd see the number double for early puberty, and halve for younger than 10

[–]Get_Fcked 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a bit misleading, the survey was of 18-23 year olds, when you're that age, someone who is 14 is still pretty close to the age of girls you're having sex with. It doesnt mean that % of men of other age demographics want the same thing. I

f you surveyed 16 year old males, probably 100% of them would want that.

[–]StellarPando 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well there are 76 participants that are under 17..

[–]residentweevill 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Keep in mind that the group included people 17 years or younger. If you asked a 15 year old guy that, it would not be surprising at all if he said yes. The age should be changed to something like 12 or younger

[–]ZigZag3123 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Go back and look at the demographics on the right side. A large majority of them were younger than 23, and many were under 17. 16-20 year olds having sex with 14 year olds is not that big of a deal, and happens quite often.

[–]French__Canadian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really is a quarter of the redditers are 15 years old.