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The r/all front page is covered with vaccine propaganda again. There is no actual debate allowed, everything is "all vaccines" or "no vaccines". Neat, simple, black and white. This is how you can tell you're being manipulated. (self.conspiracy)

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[–]liquilife -10 ポイント-9 ポイント  (23子コメント)

I think it's great. Trying to label vaccination as a negative by those who don't understand is terrible. The average person is finally unifying their voice against the anti-vacinators.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]You_Are_All_Diseased 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There's plenty of people in prison whose only crime was deciding what to put in their own body. Welcome to the land of the free.

    [–]Northwesternorigin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    See, you say that, but...

    [–]Circlejark 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Trying to label vaccination as a negative by those who don't understand is terrible.

    So let me guess, you and 95% of reddit are fucking vaccinologist!? Medical professionals? No, you just repeat the shit that you hear as it's the word of God.

    Confirmation bias all over the Internet is a huge problem. We seek the "truths" we want to find to confirm our own preconceived beliefs.

    [–]Strich-9 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (16子コメント)

    So let me guess, you and 95% of reddit are fucking vaccinologist!? Medical professionals? No, you just repeat the shit that you hear as it's the word of God.

    No, we just repeat the word of vaccinologists. The scientific evidence is clearly with one side of the debate.

    [–]Circlejark 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Present your evidence.

    [–]Strich-9 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html

    [–]Circlejark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Monitoring health problems after vaccination is essential to ensure the United States continues to have the safest, most effective vaccine supply in history.

    CDC's Immunization Safety Office identifies possible vaccine side effects and conducts studies to determine whether a health problem is caused by a specific vaccine.

    So does this scream out to you that vaccines are safe for everyone?

    [–]Strich-9 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    No, that is not evidence that vaccines are harmful in any way. Everything can have possible side effects or allergies. It's possible to be allergic to vaccines, but that just means you are relying on others to be vaccinated around you.

    Monitoring health problems after vaccination is essential to ensure the United States continues to have the safest, most effective vaccine supply in history.

    I have no idea how you can read this as a negative sentence.

    [–]Circlejark 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    'Monitoring health problems after vaccination is essential'

    [–]Strich-9 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    right, as with anything else. you're just listing reasons they're effective and showing evidence they're monitored for safety. Which are both good things.

    [–]Circlejark -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    For the record- I'm not anti-vaccine, all of my kids are vaccinated. That doesn't mean that I think that everyone should be forced to be so. I think there should be an open debate about it. I do not however get flu shots because they seem to be pretty useless, if other people want them I'm fine with that also.

    [–]Strich-9 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think there should be an open debate about it

    Why? Personally, I don't think childrens health should be up for debate. we both know vaccines are a good thing, so why should we sit back and let people infect others just because it's some childish idea of "freedom".

    I go back to speeding limits. I think that everyone should be forced to go a certain speed limit. If anything, mandatory vaccines would save just as many lives.

    Why is public safety a public decision only when it comes to vaccines? With everything else we have limits and requirements of people to make sure they're not mistreating their children or effecting others. How come we can't apply the same logic to vaccines that we apply to say, car licences or speed limits?

    If people being forced to take vaccines would increase peoples health and save lives, then I'm all for it. I can't relaly think of an argument against it except giving someone an exercise in freedom in an otherwise not-free society.

    [–]mooncryptowow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    The debate has been framed wrong.

    I personally would just like to see the vaccination schedule spread out more, and MUCH stricter quality testing on all vaccine producers.

    Yet, if I try to say something along those lines, I'm Jenny McCarthy ... and I don't even get to fap to my own rack :(

    [–]Strich-9 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I personally would just like to see the vaccination schedule spread out more, and MUCH stricter quality testing on all vaccine producers.

    Why do you think this? Do you have a qualification in the area? Would spacing the schedule out improve or worsen public health? I feel like they must've tested this.

    and MUCH stricter quality testing on all vaccine producers.

    Considering there's little to no evidence of vaccines doing any harm, I dunno why we'd do that. It would just up the cost and cause delays in treatment.

    But yeah, if that's all anti-vaxxers were demanding, I think that even with a few negative health effects, the scientific community would take that deal any day. More rigourous testing and regulation is far better than a minority population that is denying modern medicine and slowly trying to turn their area into sub-saharan africa

    [–]mooncryptowow -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    You're the problem though. You don't want to have an intelligent conversation, you want to belittle someone. By straw-manning me into some evil anti-vaxxer, you can allow yourself to do that, and even get the added benefit of telling yourself you're doing something good for mankind.

    It would just up the cost and cause delays in treatment.

    I'm not really sure how something for which demand can be anticipated would be affected by some added qa/qc, but sure. On the topic of costs, FUCK MERCK AND PHIZER' cost. They'll pass the cost along, but at least we'll know what's being injected into us.

    [–]Strich-9 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    You're the problem though. You don't want to have an intelligent conversation, you want to belittle someone. By straw-manning me into some evil anti-vaxxer, you can allow yourself to do that, and even get the added benefit of telling yourself you're doing something good for mankind.

    I just explained why anti-vaxxers were bad, you may or may not be against vaccines. you're certainly not in a position to demand a change to the vaccine schedule when you have literally no qualifications or knowledge of vaccinology. and neither would I - that's why I don't. Removing anti-vaxxers or forcing them to vaccinate would definitely be something good for mankind though, I agree with that part. I don't really think I ahve much effect on it sadly, it's a change that will probably only come when we see the anti-vaxxers children start dying from preventable diseases, and then they'll realise why we have vaccines in the first place. It's been so long since anybody has died of whooping cough, but it wouldn't take too many cases to make people realise "hey, maybe I SHOULDN'T disagree with modern science at the risk of my childs and other childrens life".

    I'm hoping the situation gets better before it gets worse, in any case.

    They'll pass the cost along, but at least we'll know what's being injected into us.

    We already do, the ingredients lists for vaccines are available, and none of the ingredients have been proven harmful except in extremely high and non-vaccine-like doses.

    the fact is that people just don't understand that vaccines are about as well documented and proven as gravity. That's why it's kinda baffling to me that people want to change this or that or think it should be less or more - why would they get to make that decision, and not a trained professional?

    I get the fear of seeing your baby stabbed with injections, that would feel horrible to witness. But that doens't relaly give you the right to deny all scientific reasoning. I don't really like the speed limits or the fact that I have to wear a seat belt constantly - it doesn't mean I get to take it off and feel opressed that people try to convince me it's a good idea to wear it.

    [–]mooncryptowow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I don't know if there's such a thing as an "anti-vaxxer". It sounds like the kind of title people assign to other people to shoe-horn them into a mold. It does give you something which you can point your finger at and say "that's bad", that's about it.

    We already do, the ingredients lists for vaccines are available

    Until processed food manufacturers start listing a percentage of rat feces in their ingredient lists, I'm going to say those aren't 100% accurate. Again, you've got me straw-manned to Jenny McCarthy.

    I'm actually 100% for vaccinations (due to the fact that I understand them, thank you very much), and I've never denied scientific reasoning in my life (at least since I broke free of Christianity as an adult). This shit is moving towards forced vaccinations though, and I'm 100% against that.

    As for your comments about stabbing babies http://imgur.com/NOECI0s

    [–]Strich-9 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I don't know if there's such a thing as an "anti-vaxxer".

    It's someone who doesn't believe vaccines work, or that they cause autism, or that Big Pharma is trying to get them sick on purpose.

    til processed food manufacturers start listing a percentage of rat feces in their ingredient lists, I'm going to say those aren't 100% accurate.

    That's just an assumption on your part. So you just ASSUME there's bad stuff in vaccines despite no evidence supporting it?

    I'm actually 100% for vaccinations (due to the fact that I understand them, thank you very much), and I've never denied scientific reasoning in my life (at least since I broke free of Christianity as an adult). This shit is moving towards forced vaccinations though, and I'm 100% against that.

    Why? Personally I think it's become clear that not everyone is smart enough to vaccinate their kid. I think it's the same as speed limits and seatbelts - if we're allowed to force people to do that, why not force them to vaccinate? Seeing as we both agree theres no downside.

    This whole "freedom" thing is a state of mind, nobody is actually free. You can't go yell "fire" in a movie theatre, you can't speed wherever, you can't walk through a school wtih a gun. And IMO you shouldn't be able to knowingly contribute to bringing back diseases.

    How do you know who jenny mcarthy is, but not think there's such things as an anti-vaxxer? It's a huge movement that is growing steadily. I could find various comments on /r/conspiacy supporting anti-vax positions, but it would be witch hunting to do so. I dunno how you haven't seen this.

    [–]mooncryptowow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Why?

    I'll be damned if anyone is going to force me to take a flu vaccine, and any mandatory vaccine is a slippery slope to that.

    You can't go yell "fire" in a movie theatre, you can't speed wherever, you can't walk through a school wtih a gun.

    You sure can! There's just consequences to those actions. I'm free to bust your jaw for ruining my movie experience, to which there are also consequences. Freedom doesn't come without consequence, quite the opposite.

    TBH I really don't know who she is, I just know people bring her up any time I say anything other than "vax everyone!@! omg i fucking llove sciecne".

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]