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The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism

Jess Martin       November 11, 2014 The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism2014-11-11T16:45:54+00:00     Blog, Prostitution     209 Comments
When I read Emily Lazatin’s Huffington Post article about a new Vancouver-based prostitution agency catering toward disabled men, I felt compelled to respond from my perspective as a woman with two developmentally disabled brothers (one blood-related, one in-law) and roughly a decade of work experience in Special Education and respite care. I’ve also spent nearly 10 years providing practical support to a group of former sex-industry women who do self-advocacy. I hope the combination of these experiences gives me adequate license to address the topic of disabled men using prostitution.
My brother, who has both Down Syndrome and Autism, was born two months before I started Kindergarten. The relationship I have with my brother has had a profound impact on me. It has been central to the formation of my personality and my choice of study, my career, and even my spouse. I’ll be the first to acknowledge that this article would carry more authority if I were a woman with disabilities myself, but I’m not. I have a point to make nonetheless.
This may come as a disappointment to you if you don’t have much experience with disabled people beyond Forest Gump or I am Sam, but individuals with disabilities do not exist exclusively to inspire the mainstream population and they are not immune to feminist critique. An uncomfortable but integral part of honouring the humanity of people with disabilities is recognizing that, not only can they be feminists and feminist allies, but they can also be misogynists, racists, and ableists. Frankly, I would suggest that disabled men who use prostitution to satisfy their sexual appetites are often a combination of all three.
When I hear non-disabled people frame the use of women in prostitution by disabled men as a human rights or sexual expression issue, my blood boils. There are three false statements implicit in this argument. The first is that disabled people are so sexually unappealing that no one would have non-paid sex with them. The second is that sexual preferences are a human right. The third is that the sexual appetite of disabled men should take precedence over the advancement of women’s equality. Let’s address these in order. Shall we?
People with disabilities do not need prostitution in order to have intimacy or to have sex. Many disabled people have sex with each other or with non-disabled people. Typically in the community of people with intellectual or developmental disabilities, individuals will have sexual relationships with others at a similar cognitive level to minimize the risk of power imbalance. The matching of cognitive abilities is not a concern for people whose disabilities are physical; indeed, I know of many with fully-abled partners. People with disabilities have dating relationships. They have marriages. They have casual sex. Occasionally they’re doing it in inappropriate locations or contexts but, trust me, they’re doing it. Get over it. If you as a reader were patting yourself on the back for being progressive enough to think that disabled people could have sex, you can stop now and don’t let your prejudiced condescension hit you in the ass on the way out.
This brings us to our second point. Sorry Ghomeshi, but sexual preferences are not a human right. They never have been and they never will be. As a result of porn culture, however, a lot of men in general (including men with disabilities) end up believing that not only do they have an inalienable right to partnered sex, but they also have the right to have sex with women that look and act like the women they see in porn. It is a grave mistake to conflate sexual preferences with sexual expression. We as humans are all sexual beings but partnered sex is not a requisite part of sexual expression. Some of us will have other people that play a role in our sexual expression and some of us (including both disabled and non-disabled people in my life) may not. On the other hand, when it comes to “physical intimacy” (as many sex industry lobbyists like to call it), sexist, racist, and ableist expectations (such as the desire to only have sex with thin, able-bodied women with hairless vulvas and perky breasts or the desire to sexually act out racist tropes) aren’t helping anyone. Prostitution harms intimacy development in non-paid relationships because it teaches men to order women the way one might order an americano misto.
Lastly, disabled men’s sexual desires cannot take precedence over the advancement of women’s equality. Even if partnered sex were a human right, it would not justify the existence of prostitution — a system of deeply entrenched inequalities. I’m not going to detail the “women’s liberation approach” to prostitution here (some call it the “Nordic Model” position and some call it the “abolitionist” position) but I would encourage readers to look into it in order to put my point into context. One tenet of this position is the idea that, unlike Nico from the Huffington Post article, the majority of women in the sex industry enter because of desperate material need. Even if disabled men weren’t able to find willing partners, would it be just for the most marginalized demographic of women — many of whom are physically, intellectually, or developmentally disabled themselves — to provide this “service?” I believe not. It’s unacceptable to pit the interests of two vulnerable people groups against each other.
I do recognize that society must be improved to make sex more accessible and enjoyable for people with disabilities. However, I do not see prostitution as part of this advancement. In fact, it is antithetical. We need to look to communication technology, mechanical technology, and public education instead. My brothers hold women in the utmost respect as their family members, friends, support staff, and caregivers. They don’t use prostituted women and they don’t need us to feel sorry for them. Any society that offers up prostitution to people with disabilities as a substitute for mutually gratifying, unpaid sex is a very regressive society indeed.
 
Jess MartinJess Martin is the founding member of Exploited Voices’ Allies, a group of advocates taking leadership from former sex-industry women. She lives in Vancouver.
 
 
 
 

209 Comments Already

  1. Miep - November 11th, 2014 at 4:28 pm none Comment author #210344 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Yes, the whole idea that anybody has a right to sex is corrupt to the core. And thank you also for your incisive assessment of the reality of disabled people’s lives, Jess.
       58 likes
  2. Amy - November 11th, 2014 at 5:30 pm none Comment author #210368 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    very concise and well written. Thank you for expressing so eloquently what needs to be said.
       27 likes
  3. Sabine - November 11th, 2014 at 5:44 pm none Comment author #210375 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Hear hear! As a social care worker I also have some insight into this issue and I heartily agree with Jess. This article comes a day after I witnessed the most disgusting misogynistic, sexist and racist behavior by a disabled acquaintance towards his Vietnamese fiancee. (I live in Vietnam…the tales I could tell!) When I pointed this out somebody started to use his disability as some kind of excuse. I was staggered.
       41 likes
  4. simone - November 11th, 2014 at 6:20 pm none Comment author #210389 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Thank you. As one of the many prostitution survivors who has a disability due to prostitution itself, I ask those who advocate for this insult, why it is okay, not only to scapegoat a caste of women for male entitlement generally, but to give us a disability,(which 70 % of prostituted women end up with), in advocating the rights of disabled men?
       52 likes
    • Sab - November 12th, 2014 at 9:58 pm none Comment author #210924 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Hi,
      Can you provide a link for that statistic. I know many ex-pro’s and none with a disability.
         2 likes
      • huffysnappy - November 13th, 2014 at 4:40 am none Comment author #211032 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I’m no expert in this area Sab, but really, it takes 5 seconds thought to come up with a disability that 70% of prostituted women could plausibly ‘end up with’, and about the same amount of time to then google ‘prostitution ptsd’. The first link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9698636 (Prostitution, Violence and Posttraumatic stress disorder by Farley and Barkan) and the relevant statistic from that link – ‘68% met DSM III-R criteria for a diagnosis of PTSD.’
        But perhaps, since you’re the sort of person who counters a prostituted survivors claim of ‘I have a disability from prostitution’ with a claim that you ‘know many ex-pro’s’, perhaps you’d like to quibble that 68% isn’t 70% or, whatever.
        (By the way, I guess you never stopped to think that of the ‘many’ formerly prostituted people you claim to know, that perhaps the individuals concerned wouldn’t necessarily tell *you* if they had PTSD or any other medical condition or injury?)
           18 likes
        • Sab - November 13th, 2014 at 7:17 pm none Comment author #211418 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Maybe you should call yourself HyperSnappy! I AM an ex-pro. Ptsd is not a disability. It is an emotional reaction that needs to be worked through. There’s absolutely no need to label people with it for life. Not only that, but I’m FOR the Nordic model. People like you, absolutely p me off because you actually try and silence US, the people who have actually worked in the industry. I know a lot of ex pros because we worked together. And I was ttalking to another person who worked in the industry. Unless you’ve actually worked in the industry, butt out!
             4 likes
          • Sab - November 13th, 2014 at 7:32 pm none Comment author #211427 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            “Conclusions Since post-traumatic stress was not found to be associated with disability, its clinical importance may be questionable.”
            There’s no doubt PTSD is serious and requires councelling but it’s not a life label nor a disability.
               2 likes
            • bella_cose - November 13th, 2014 at 9:19 pm none Comment author #211470 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              In the U.S., if you are diagnosed with PTSD, you can receive social security disability benefits for it. I know a few people who are disabled because of PTSD, and that’s how they survive.
                 17 likes
              • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 1:01 am none Comment author #211535 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                I definitely agree with giving people help for ptsd because it’s a nightmare to live. Been there. I worked through it, not prostitution work; but I also recieved government funded councelling for two years, once a week. I did feel it to be stressful, darn near debitating but I never felt disabled.
                My issue with prostitution is that it, is absolutely damaging. It’s something thst can be recovered from. Any info spread that says, lifelong ‘screwed’ is something I fight because the belief in recovery matters a lot. It’s necessary to know it’s possible in order to get there.
                I’ve also had seriously problematic fibroids twice over and the only factor that shows correlation is sexual abuse. Again, I would never call this a disability. Challenging, painful, confronting, frightening – yes; but not disabling.
                To me a disability is permanent. Temporary disability exists but that, to me, is a life challenge to beat and overcome.
                   0 likes
                • sim345 - November 17th, 2014 at 11:44 am none Comment author #213245 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  My PTSD has not been temporary so far. I am talking decades. I guess I should hide that fact in the quest for what? To be a failure at positive thinking class?
                     4 likes
          • lizor - November 14th, 2014 at 5:02 am none Comment author #211635 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            I’m trying to follow your reasoning Sab. How does considering certain cases of PTSD (it’s not a monolithic condition, obviously) a disability, and the adjunct SS benefits available as a result “silence” anyone? I would have thought that a financial benefits to people living with PTSD would have the opposite effect to “silencing”.
            Also, how does any of this equate with “silencing” ex-pros? You are as capable of commenting here, speaking publicly about what you believe to be constructive way forward, starting your own blog, lobby group, etc. as anyone else here. Also, how do you know that Huffysnappy is not an ex-pro as well?
            These are all serious questions. I don’t understand how this comment “silences” anyone and if that is the case I would like to understand it.
               12 likes
            • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 12:57 pm none Comment author #211824 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              Take a look at HuffySnappy response to a simple question. He/she literally makigowm up a bsckstory of who I am and what I believe. You think that spreading falsehood about a complete srranger isn’t silencing? You think the internet doesn’t jump on the bandwagon? Please show me how it’s even possible to come to the conclusions this person came to from one question.
              I am sick to death of everyone weighing in on prostitution. We already have our own movement. I started with that 25 years ago. And the problem today is the same as it was then, 2 views of us:
              -oh poor abused victims
              -choice feminisms empowerment model
              Both are ridiculous. It is possible to be abused before during and after. It is possible to feel powerful before, during and after. It is pissible to make choices before, during and after but none of these things define the experience or the individuals.
              Choices are made within the framework of society and the open doors available. Until such a time as 100% employment at living wage minimums exist, so too will limited choices exist.
              Until such a time as free anger management classes, school classes in speaking and listening including non-violent communication are part of the syllabus that every student learns growing up, so too will domestic violence exist and thus youth making limited choices to escape will exist.
              Until it is considered perfectly valid that taxes should pay full-time parents of under school-age children a full living wage, so too will solo mothers make limited choices to feed, clothe and house their children.
              The conversation hasn’t even got into the right ball park yet. It’s still on empowerment vs victim hood. Yet, those of us in the industry haven’t been silent. We’ve been silenced through stereotyping and through assumptions.
              The truth is societal sex and gender inequity causes financial coersion that enables the sex industry to profiteer off womens bodies. The fix doesn’t lay in defining prostitutes and ex prostitutes in terms of damage. It lays in constructive criticism of the institutions that negatively impact on women (and trans and gay men) both those who find themselves prostituted and those who don’t end up there but came very close or chose another path, such as drugs, theft, non-taxed and thus illegal work etc that is born out of institutionalised financial coersion.
              The problems of the sex industry extend far beyond the sex industry, to the point that getting out of the industry doesn’t necessarily fix the problem that placed the individual in it, in the first place.
              Does that clarify things for you?
                 2 likes
              • memoir of a trespasser - November 14th, 2014 at 4:07 pm none Comment author #211905 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                “We’ve been silenced through stereotyping and through assumptions.”
                Take it up with the multibillion dollar pornography industry, sweetie.
                Have you seen the disgusting words pornographers teach men to call people like you, names that are a thousand times more stereotype-laden and destructive to you than ‘sweetie’?
                   14 likes
                • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 4:40 pm none Comment author #211923 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  Dear ‘Sweety’,
                  It’s so obvious, that you would never perpetuate the stereoryping and condescension of “people like me” ( I assume by that you mean human rights activist, animal rights activist, environmentalist, double-degree holder, friend, daughter, cousin, sister, aunt, human being, tax payer…).
                  Thank-you for incredibly thought-provoking and nuanced addition to the discussion.
                     3 likes
                  • memoir of a trespasser - November 14th, 2014 at 5:36 pm none Comment author #211960 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                    Careful, your hard-on of misplaced rage against feminists is showing.
                       1 likes
                    • Sab - November 15th, 2014 at 10:30 pm none Comment author #212522 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                      I AM A FEMINIST! If there was a non-feminist here it would be you.
                      That double degree I mentioned; Sociology and Feminist Studies before it was renamed Gender Studies
                         2 likes
              • lizor - November 14th, 2014 at 5:02 pm none Comment author #211937 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                Well it does provide some clarification, but it does not answer my questions.
                You wrote: “The truth is societal sex and gender inequity causes financial coersion that enables the sex industry to profiteer off womens bodies.” In this many regular posters here (who, by your definition, should not be speaking) agree with you. Most regulars also agree that casting women in prostitution as “poor abused victims” is not at all constructive. Actually, I’m not sure I’ve read anyone here who takes that position.
                You are telling HS, myself and other that unless we are current or ex “pros” we should remain silent. I am suggesting that you don’t know which of us are current or ex pros, which of us are multiple rape survivors, which of us has traded sex for financial security, approval, companionship or any of the other many ways we find ourselves offering/enduring sex acts for something we want or need. If my rapist bought me dinner; a bus pass; paid my rent, does that allow me to speak?
                I don’t get the point of insisting that the only people who can reiterate the fact that there is a very high percentage of PTSD in performers in the sex industry or that the fact that in the U.S. PTSD is considered a disability and compensated as such are people who were/are directly involved in that particular type of transaction.
                To say that the only people who are allowed to state the fact that within the number of citizens who have seen military combat there is a high percentage with PTSD, and that there are compensation programs for that, are those who have actually seen combat is absurd.
                It seems to me that the only person telling other groups that they have no right to state imperial fact is you. You are the only one who is silencing anyone else and I see no evidence of you being silenced by other people’s statements here in any way.
                You, like Huffysnappy and others, are contributing to the conversation and I really appreciate what you have to say, but I don’t see any grounds for you telling people not to speak about PTSD.
                   17 likes
                • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 8:15 pm none Comment author #212025 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  You’ve ken what I’ve said put of context. I haven’t told people not to talk about ptsd, nor have I tokd people here, not to speak. What I did do was get
                  peeved at huffy… for making up a back story and trying to pisotion me as anti the nordic model and as ignorant despite what I’d written which was nothing more than a request for a link. I have also stated that I’m tired of everyone weighing in; that runs far beyond this post and is
                  contextualised to the
                  general ‘debate
                  ‘ which by and large
                  absolutely ignores
                  prostitute voices
                  unless they fit the
                  stereotypes. I also
                  stated, “Unless you’ve
                  actually worked in the industry, butt out!”,
                  never once implying
                  that I knew who was or ever had been in
                  industry. That was
                  what the ‘unless’ bit
                  was. She/he could
                  have responded.
                  As I’ve already said, I
                  do think mental illness
                  or psychological problems need treatment but they are not disabilities. The USA is one country not the world. On top of that tje psychogical profession has no scientific evidence whatsoever for most of the ‘conditions’ in the DSM.
                  If you want proif of that watch the documentary, The DSM: Pschiatry’s biggest scam. I’ve checked, it is on Youtube.
                  It is well overdue time for those who’ve never worked in the industry to actually listen because for people who’ve never been its just theory. That doesn’t mean people can’t talk, it means they need to listen first. The stories are widely diverse and while people talking theory outnumber those talking experience, then the realities don’t get heard over the theory. Abd yes, that does silence voices of those who truly understand it from having lived it.
                  To call all emotions
                  that aren’t positive due to prostitution, disability, is to medicalise the bodies, minds and soyls of prostotutes and former prostitutes. That, in tirn, has a roll on effect of discrediting the vouces of those ‘mentally ill’ and ‘psychologically damaged’ people. It is just more of the same othering of prostitutes who are just people, not ‘those women, other than the general population’.
                  There is a huge difference between fighting for the right of people to recieve trauma help and socially disabling and undermining them with permanent and damaging labels.
                  Prostitution doesn’t need to be exaggerated to be taken seriously as problematic for the workers, whether by limited choices, trafficking or coersion.
                     4 likes
                  • bella_cose - November 15th, 2014 at 10:20 pm none Comment author #212517 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                    Actually, psychiatric problems can reach the point of being a disability. Count yourself lucky if you’ve never reached the point of not being able to get out of bed, or wash, or leave your home. Some people’s lives are torn apart by mental illness. Perhaps you should stick to talking about the subjects you know of from personal experience.
                       13 likes
                    • corvid - November 16th, 2014 at 10:47 am none Comment author #212770 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                      Yes, psychiatric illnesses can indeed be disabilities. My father is so debilitated by his delusional psychosis that he lives on paltry disability payments in a dank basement. There have been many, many attempts to treat his illness but all have failed. I’ve been pushed out of jobs, abandoned by friends, and found solace in addiction, because of my own issues.
                      Sab, discussing PTSD isn’t “calling all emotions that are not positive that are due to prostitution “disability””, it’s not a label, it’s a real phenomenon suffered by many women. Which is not to say it permanently marks anyone; it may be a disability, or it may not be, depending on the sufferer’s response to treatment. I certainly don’t feel that the women here are discrediting my voice (or my father’s) by pointing to this. I agree with the vast majority of points you’ve made on this thread and want you to know that you are supported here that and I support you, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree on this particular point.
                         8 likes
              • Lee - November 15th, 2014 at 1:34 am none Comment author #212116 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                You’re in control, Sab. You’re in control. Just keep repeating it to yourself…
                   7 likes
      • FreeFromSexPozzies - November 13th, 2014 at 10:09 pm none Comment author #211489 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        She probably means PTSD, which is generally debilitating. More prostituted women get PTSD than do combat vets.
           14 likes
        • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 12:07 pm none Comment author #211801 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Do you have any links to this research? I don’t doubt that it’s true, I’d like to add it to my own personal arsenal for debating MRAs and trolls on the subject. I already knew prostitution is the most dangerous profession in the world and now I’ve learned that it’s closely linked with PTSD (which is not at all surprising!).
             6 likes
          • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 3:58 pm none Comment author #211901 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            Interesting that you needed to add “I don’t doubt it’s true” after asking for links in order to avoid being attacked here!
               1 likes
            • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 5:58 pm none Comment author #211973 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              I didn’t add it in to avoid attack, I added it to clarify intent. Requesting links is a common opening salvo in comment threads and I didn’t want FreeFromSexPozzies to get the wrong impression. I didn’t want it to seem as if I was going on the attack.
              I’ve been following your thread above and I agree with much of what you’re saying, I think the problem is that you’re couching it in this weirdly incongruous hostility towards the other commenters. It’s like, Hey, we’re on the same side but I’m now going to angrily dictate to you what you’re allowed and not allowed to say about my former profession.
              Prostitution is a hot button issue in feminism, it’s impossible to not have an opinion, so it’s kind of jarring to be told to shut up about it.
                 6 likes
              • Sab - November 15th, 2014 at 10:45 pm none Comment author #212528 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                Do white feminists have the right to tell black feminists what counts as black feminism?
                Do able-bodied feminists have the right to tell disabled feminists what constitutes disableism?
                Do heterosexuals have the right to define gay rights?
                Intersectionality means listening to the people living it.
                Riddle me this; why would prostitution be any different to every other form of discrimination so that intersectionality doesn’t apply?
                   2 likes
                • bella_cose - November 16th, 2014 at 5:06 am none Comment author #212665 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  I’m going to be very honest here. I don’t only care about prostitution because of what prostituted women go through, although that’s a large part of it. Male sexual entitlement is a danger to every woman on the planet. Prostitution is an extreme example of it. Even if every prostituted woman was perfectly happy in prostitution, I’d still be against it. It’s another part of the culture of violence against women, and that affects all women.
                  Misogyny affects all women, and acting like prostitution happens in a way that only affects prostituted women is naive and dangerous. Of course feminists should listen to prostituted women about their experiences, but we don’t have to experience it to know it’s wrong, and the mechanism which allows it to occur.
                     20 likes
                  • Meghan Murphy - November 16th, 2014 at 12:21 pm none Comment author #212797 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                    Yes, I agree. Obviously prostituted women suffer inordinately in prostitution but the existence of the sex industry impacts all women (and men). it impacts gender relations, gender equality, sex and sexuality, how men see women and girls, and how women and girls see themselves. Though marginalized women are far more vulnerable to exploitation and abuse, all women and girls are susceptible.
                    This is where the argument the only current ‘sex workers’ may have an opinion or speak about prostitution fails — big time — current ‘sex workers’ are not the only ones affected. Women and girls who have not yet been prostituted, women and girls who were — but have since left the industry — are affected, as are all people. Like that prostitution exists impacts the whole of society.
                       22 likes
                • Dewey - November 16th, 2014 at 7:59 am none Comment author #212701 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  As a disabled feminist, I’ve actually learned quite a bit about my particular brand of intersectionality from well-informed able-bodied allies. Anyone who cares enough and is committed enough can skillfully enact change without necessarily belonging to a marginalized group.
                  That’s beside the point, however.
                  I think it’s important to respect individual viewpoints, as an outsider, but you have to realize, on some level, that prostitution as a globally pervasive phenomenon affects everywoman, whether she has first-hand experience with the profession or not. The sex industry marginalizes us all, every woman and girl, through its pernicious thrall over the majority of the male population. It’s sometimes on a secondary social level, manifesting in men’s attitudes towards women, and sometimes the impact is felt directly through a boyfriend or husband who has slept with prostitutes, visits strip clubs, or watches porn.
                  We all suffer because of it, we suffer social and institutional oppression because of it, therefore, every feminist has a right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion.
                  You don’t get to have the only say on the subject because you aren’t the only one to suffer the consequences.
                     14 likes
                  • Sab - November 16th, 2014 at 10:26 pm none Comment author #212993 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                    I need to repeat myself again.
                    People have the right to talk about it but prostitutes and ex-prostotutes get define what the experience is.
                    Of course it has social ramifications. I never once said it exists in an isolated bubble. Again, don’t take what I’ve said and expand it to an extreme position.
                    Nothing brought up here is against my beliefs or really, in response to what I’ve actually said.
                    So far, I’ve said PTSD exists and no matter who or how, help should be available. I’ve alao said, don’t label it a disability. Somehow this got skewed to, if it’s not a disability, it doesn’t exist or people should suffer in silence.
                    Prostitutes and ex-prostitutes should define the experience and ramification of prostitution. And somehow this is skewed to, no one has the right to speak at all, ever or frame ot relationship to patriarchy.
                    Wth?
                       2 likes
      • lib - November 14th, 2014 at 4:17 pm none Comment author #211910 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Does mental illness count as disability? I’ve also recieved many injuries in prostitution, often the same tear again and again, never truely healing completely. And urinary tract infections and bacterial vaginosis and thrush yes I always use condoms but still have had these more than a couple occassions. Many girls have actual serious disabilities in prostitution,its one of the factors leading to the lack of suitable employment alternatives facing us.
           11 likes
        • Lee - November 15th, 2014 at 1:32 am none Comment author #212113 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          “Does mental illness count as disability?”
          Yes.
             8 likes
          • Lee - November 15th, 2014 at 4:01 pm none Comment author #212370 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            Let me put it this way: no sane person can truly survive horrific abuse. Mental illness and abuse go together like bread and butter. If you haven’t read the book, ‘Anatomy of an Epidemic’ by Robert Whitaker, I wholeheartedly recommend it.
            Abuse makes people violent or crazy or both. It is a real phenomenon, it is not the fault of the victim (which is not a word that should be viewed with negative connotations because, yes, people are actually victims of things), and being damagedbecause otherpeople chose to abuse you is not something to be ashamed of. It is not pleasant, but disability due to harm done to you, whether physical or mental, is not some kind of flaw. It means you are a sane human being, underneath all the ‘crazy’ others have inflicted upon you.
               10 likes
            • Sab - November 15th, 2014 at 11:04 pm none Comment author #212539 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              But people do, all the time. They hurt and work through and tap into reseeves of strength tgey never knew they had.
              If people truly became mentally ill and violent or crazy then the one third of the world starving to death would no longer know love, compassion, empathy… The same could be said of every area
              affected by natural disaster, earthquake, tsunami and uranium
              disaster of Fukushima, earthquakes and over 22000 aftershocks of Christchurch, flood disaster of Queensland that wiped out a third of
              the state, bushfires, hurricanes/tornados etc. Every rape victim of the world, every victim of violent attack and so on…
              But that’s not the general response. Somehow, all these people hold on to their humanity, their sanity, the lives and find inner reserves of strengrh that get them through it.
                 1 likes
              • lizor - November 16th, 2014 at 5:14 am none Comment author #212667 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                Nobody said that PTSD is permanent and that the women who enter the sex trade who have already been traumatized by rape or some other form of sex abuse/grooming or that that who are injured and traumatized for the first time or re-traumatized and further injured through the “work” never get over it. Lee did not say it. HuffySnappy did not say it. I did not say it. No one said that.
                Why are you inventing enemies where there are none and attacking people for things they have not written? Why are you one second saying that people who have never worked in the industry should not speak about the industry and the next second you are telling people to shut up – people who you know nothing about, including whether they have worked in the industry or not.
                   8 likes
              • C.K. Egbert - November 16th, 2014 at 1:21 pm none Comment author #212808 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                Sab, I don’t think anyone is implying that someone with PTSD is someone less than human. Nor does it at all imply that they are incapable of love, compassion or empathy.
                All that this is saying is that people who experience trauma are likely (because they are human and this is a natural human reaction) to experience distress as a result. At least it is going to permanently change them in some way. Acknowledging this is an acknowledgement of the harm that women experience and saying that it should be taken very seriously. That’s all.
                The fact that someone experiences great distress is also not necessarily an indicator of being “flawed.” If one didn’t experience any distress, it’s likely because one has become so numb/inured/disassociated and identified with abuse that one cannot “feel” it anymore.
                I think “harm” is a better term to use than “damaged” (because of the negative connotation of “damaged goods,” flawed, etc., as someone on another thread pointed out to me).
                   7 likes
                • Sab - November 24th, 2014 at 1:15 am none Comment author #216014 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  I absolutely agree with you. There is definitely harm and ramifications to most ex-prostitutes. At the time dissociation is the norm. I’ve only ever met three women and one man who say they love/d the job and are/were career sex-workers. It took a long time for me to accept it and believe them. My first thought was – ‘ou’re in denial’ I was wrong.
                  Every other woman I’ve met through working has been harmed by it in one way or another. I worked on and off from age 15-33 (over an 18 year period but not the whole time). I had dissociation disorder prior to working in the industry, so I don’t know if I would have developed it becayse of that. What I do know, is it’s manageable. There are techniques, many techniques, to ground oneself and stay present in life. There’s ways of identifying triggers and learning how to work with them, rather than avoiding them.
                  I personally don’t use any drugs to help with emotional/psychological fallout. I believe they do more harm than good. I also, haven’t taken time off work (non-sex work) because of what I’ve seen with friends. Friends who have taken time out seem to have slid into depression and got stuck. One friend in particular has been unemployed for over a decade despite councelling, drugs and financial aid. I talked to a councellor about the pattern I saw in my friends and asked about it. She said, ‘even if you’re just going through the motions at first, staying involved in work, family and social activity is necessary for healing.’
                  This is one of the reasons I believe in providing help without labels.
                     1 likes
      • Ellesar - November 15th, 2014 at 3:48 am none Comment author #212160 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I must admit that I immediately thought of incontinence.
           7 likes
        • Sab - November 15th, 2014 at 4:00 pm none Comment author #212368 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Hi Ellesar,
          I’ve never heard of incontinence being the result of sex, whether through prostitution or other means.
          Can you expand on that?
             1 likes
          • bella_cose - November 15th, 2014 at 10:37 pm none Comment author #212523 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            Anal incontinence can happen from lots of rough anal sex. It happens to women in pornography. I doubt that it’s unheard of in prostituted women. I would guess urinary incontinence could result from damage acquired from repeated rough vaginal penetration. Not sure if stds could be a factor as well.
               8 likes
            • sim345 - November 17th, 2014 at 11:49 am none Comment author #213247 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              stop replying to Sab. Sab is a troll.
                 2 likes
            • Sab - November 24th, 2014 at 1:19 am none Comment author #216018 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              I didn’t even think of fecal incontinence. I never did anal. But, of course, that’s a huge risk.
              I’ve not heard of urinary incontinence from coitus.
                 1 likes
  5. Survivorthrrver - November 11th, 2014 at 7:31 pm none Comment author #210420 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    The “right to sex” with a vagina is not a given. Each person has “right to sex” with their own set of gonads.
    But, males do not have a “right” to partnered sex with a vagina on demand. Period.
    The very definition of sex as “penis in vagina” has got to be rooted out.
    Sex = female orgasm. Hmm?
       42 likes
  6. Vancouerite - November 11th, 2014 at 8:05 pm none Comment author #210427 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Thank you for providing an articulate, insightful and honest post about this issue. I have actually been struggling with this idea and appreciate being able to gain some perspective.
       18 likes
  7. David - November 11th, 2014 at 9:17 pm none Comment author #210447 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Very good article, as a man that was also born with some mental developmental issues, I can attest that we know all about sex and can still get our fair share. My brother, who is also developmentally challenged has a child of his own and I have one myself. While we both have issues with anti-social personality disorders and social anxiety disorders, which has kept us from being able to remain in a long lasting relationship with a woman, and where we both have had to go months if not years without having any sex, we’ve never felt the need to hire a prostitute. We actually have an older sister who is just like you. Because of us, she has found a career working with children with special needs, as she’s now a speech therapist that works with kids in special education classes. She has worked with us ever since she was young and she still helps us, making sure we are able to get to work, find work, pay our child support, etc. I’ve seen where disabilities like autism are blamed for certain men’s behavior. I know the young adult male that went on a rampage and killed several people, including himself because a woman rejected him out in California supposedly had autism. Many people were blaming his actions on the fact that he was autistic, and not on the hatred he had for the women who rejected him as a mate.
       42 likes
    • ptittle - November 15th, 2014 at 4:51 pm none Comment author #212391 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “our fair share” ??
      unpack your assumptions, dude.
         5 likes
  8. Meh - November 11th, 2014 at 9:30 pm none Comment author #210450 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Such a great article – thank you so much!
       13 likes
  9. Jess Martin - November 11th, 2014 at 9:40 pm none Comment author #210454 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Thanks for the positive feedback! I much appreciate it!
       20 likes
  10. Daleth - November 11th, 2014 at 9:56 pm none Comment author #210459 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Excellent, eye-opening piece. You nailed it.
       13 likes
  11. Sarah - November 11th, 2014 at 10:07 pm none Comment author #210461 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    I really appreciate this. When I was in inpatient psychiatric treatment for anorexia and PTSD a few years ago my roommate was a woman who had been a sex worker for over 30 years. Sh did it to feed her children but after they were grown they insisted she stop and get help for the severe eating disorder, PTSD, and Xanax addiction the prostitution work had left her with. This lady had been through some of the worst trauma I’d ever heard. Prostitution does nothing but degrade and abuse women. Most of them are not lucky enough to survive and get out, as she did…and she is doing well in recovery, last I heard.
       44 likes
    • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 14th, 2014 at 12:51 pm none Comment author #211818 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      That is a heartbreaking story hearing of your roommate. I’m glad to hear that she is recovering. And I hope you are doing well and recovering too.
         8 likes
  12. Elaine - November 11th, 2014 at 11:07 pm none Comment author #210479 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    When I was 5 years old, I was raped by a 16 year old boy who was developmentally disabled. I had always been told to be nice to him (he was a neighbor) because “he wasn’t as smart as the other kids.” After he’d raped and left, I had trouble walking. Mom kept asking me what was wrong, but I didn’t say because I knew it was my fault. I was supposed to be the one in charge. Forget that he was a giant next to me and I was only 5 — I knew it was all my fault.
    I wish someone had thought to tell us that not everything he did was okay and that I had a right to protect myself. Then again, who would think it would happen to such a young child and such a sweet young man. So yes, they can have plenty of sexual needs. It can really screw up a life, too.
       45 likes
    • lizor - November 13th, 2014 at 4:10 am none Comment author #211024 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      That’s horrifying Elaine. To be left alone to carry an experience like that at 5 is triple assault: the rape, the rape at 5 years old, the rape at five years old with the young child as supposedly “responsible”. I can barely fathom it, but for what it’s worth, my heart goes out to you.
         14 likes
    • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 14th, 2014 at 12:54 pm none Comment author #211821 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I am so sorry to hear that you went through that. That is heartbreaking to hear about, far less to suffer first hand. I can’t wrap my mind around what you must have felt like being conditioned to feel everything he did was OK and instead blame yourself.
         7 likes
  13. Anemone - November 12th, 2014 at 6:04 am none Comment author #210643 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Thank you for this. And thank you also for mentioning that disabled women are at higher than average risk of being prostituted. It would have been nice if you’d emphasized that more, as a counterpoint, so there’s more focus on disabled everybody rather than just disabled men. (I don’t know how myself – I just get too lost in the stress if I even think about it.)
       23 likes
  14. Ellesar - November 12th, 2014 at 6:29 am none Comment author #210655 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    I think that there is also the subtext of entitlement only slightly different to that of able bodied men – you know the one, it goes ‘I can’t get sex for free so I have to pay because women are bitches’ – something like that. Yes, there are able bodied women who would not have a sexual relationship with a disabled man. But from my experience men are far more likely to leave a disabled partner (I worked with people with spinal injuries), and disabled women are more likely to have extensive periods of celibacy.
       30 likes
  15. Independent Radical - November 12th, 2014 at 6:38 am none Comment author #210663 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    My experiences have not been as dramatic as those of some of the other people in the comment section (thanks for sharing your stories everyone), but at my high school there was this misogynistic, homophobic, generally reactionary bully who happened to have Aspergers Syndrome and other students excusd his behaviour because of his mental disorder. I know that people with Aspergers can have difficulty communicating with others and understanding which behaviours are appropriate or inappropriate within social situations, but this student was not simply rude. He said things that were blatantly and obviously offensive. He did not do it because he was angry or anything he did it because he could. Everyone attributed his behaviours to his disorder, but the way I saw it he was a reactionary bully, who happened to have Aspergers.
    One time he played a musical instrument in front of a bunch of other students during some lunchtime music thing and they praised him like crazy afterwards. Even my friends rambled on about how great he was, even though I was one of the people he bullied and they knew I hated him. I wonder if that ties in with the idea that people with mental or physical disorders are inherently inspiring, even when they are carrying out an activity that is not even impaired by the disorder. I have my disagreements with the disability activist movement, but I too hate “inspirational” things featuring disabled people. They strike me as sadistic celebrations of people’s suffering, which are aimed at stopping those who view or otherwise make use of such material from complaining about the problems they face. It is yet another way in which our society celebrates people who shut up and implicitly villifies people who do not.
    In any case, if somebody has a mental or physical disorder that disorder is just one aspect of who they are. It usually does not determine their entire personality, let alone their political ideology (misogyny and conservatism are not symptoms of Aspergers). Of course I was attacked for supposedly not being sensitive enough to the issue of mental disorders (in reality, I am actually very capable of detecting reactionary nonsense and have been attacked for that as well, I just do not have the same understanding of what is reactionary as most liberals do), but I think it is more prejudiced to assume that all people with Aspergers are automatically going to behave nastily and adopt right-wing ideas about the word. I know people with autism spectrum disorders who are perfectly decent people, some of whom are even involved with left wing politics. A human being is a human being, not a collection of all the “identities” that liberal academics insist on forcing onto everybody.
       24 likes
    • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 12th, 2014 at 1:06 pm none Comment author #210766 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I am so sorry you went through that, not only with this guy’s bullying but also with your classmates’ refusal to acknowledge his abusive behaviour towards you.
         9 likes
    • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 12th, 2014 at 1:14 pm none Comment author #210770 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I think you bring up a good point. Respecting disabled people does not mean seeing them as all good/saint type figures, it means seeing them as complex human beings. And respecting someone means that you don’t refuse to call them out on rude or wrong behaviour because, “He’s disabled I can’t say anything to him.” That’s actually sort of disrespectful. When someone truly respects you they are not only patient with you but they also will be honest with you and expect you to live up to certain standards, the ones which they respect you by.
         20 likes
    • David - November 13th, 2014 at 5:26 pm none Comment author #211367 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Supposedly Elliot Rodger, the young man that went on a rampage and attacked and killed several people in Santa Barbara California because a woman turned him down earlier this year, was mildly autistic and several people have been blaming his actions on the fact that he was autistic.
         0 likes
      • Independent Radical - November 14th, 2014 at 12:27 am none Comment author #211527 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I know austistic people have difficulty communicating with others and I suppose that could be a factor in him developing misogynistic and generally hateful views, but I am concerned that the media may be focussing on his autism so as to give the impression that the problem was solely with him as an individual. We should not ignore broader social causes such as gender indoctrination (specifically indoctrination into masculinity), a generally violent culture, society’s obsession with sex, university culture (and its emphasis on mindless hedonism) and the way in which capitalism rewards competition and ruthless self interest.
        I am sure many radical feminists and other radical women have trouble communicating with university students and academics, not as a result of autism, but due to their unconventional and highly misunderstood ideas, yet most of them would never turn to violence as a result, because it just was not part of how they are raised. Autism can cause trouble for people, but my understanding of the symptoms of autism does not lead me to conclude that it makes people violent. There have to be other issues involved.
           12 likes
      • Ellesar - November 15th, 2014 at 3:50 am none Comment author #212161 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        And that is really insulting to autistic people!
           8 likes
  16. Dusin - November 12th, 2014 at 11:12 am none Comment author #210739 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Hmm… I must be doing everything in life wrong then. I am a 35 year old male, was always hard working, and I love and respect women, but I do not always blindly agree with their views. I believe that a woman should have every right to buy the services of a man, just as a man should that of a woman. I am not isolated from men and women who work in the service industry, nor do I use any of them. I also know several women trying to break into porn careers and I don’t really see anything wrong, as long as its what they, themselves, want. I have no mental disabilities, and am considered and am rated to be highly intelligent, I am polite, respecting and caring. However now, at 35, and not only still a virgin, but being in a wheelchair for the last 4 years, I see how hard it is for some people to just find someone, while all my friends got married and went their own ways around me, or continue to hit the bar and pick up women of their choosing, I just don’t see how it all works, and nobody has been able to help me. My friends have seen how it works for me and consider it almost a curse how women avoid me in public. Sure, there have been a few times I thought I was on the right path, up to the point of thinking that I found someone, but then I would find myself listening to the whole “you’re like a brother to me” speech and I don’t need anymore sisters. I don’t put up with abuse towards women, but I’ve seen just as many women abuse men, and get away with it, because the law is on their side. There is a bias to the system which keeps the men guilty until proven innocent, but it takes more than his own words to prove it. She just needs to claim a crime or threat, he needs 350 witnesses and a letter from the Pope. There are worse things going on, and this is what you choose to complain about? You make your choices, you can get help for them. Any working woman should have security, just my take, and a private and secure place to do business.
       6 likes
    • Lola - November 12th, 2014 at 3:42 pm none Comment author #210815 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      You see, the whole point is that women don’t owe you sex. You are not entitled to sex just because. If, for whatever reason, you are not able to convince women to sleep with you, it’s not like they are being mean, you know.
      Prostitution wouldn’t exist if men didn’t have that pervasive feeling of entitlement to women’s bodies and genitals.
         49 likes
      • ptittle - November 15th, 2014 at 4:52 pm none Comment author #212392 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes YES.
           0 likes
    • lizor - November 13th, 2014 at 4:15 am none Comment author #211025 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “I love and respect women, but I do not always blindly agree with their views”
      Would that be the single set of views held by “women” as a monolithic group? Do you blindly agree with the views of “men”, whom I can only suppose you also “love and respect”, you know, as a reducible group?
         20 likes
    • Ed Drain - November 13th, 2014 at 8:01 am none Comment author #211082 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Dustin, so your excuse for abusing a woman, is that it is too hard to meet people? Grow up! You can meet all the people you want, but if your heart is so ice cold to the suffering of the women that are forced to rent their bodies, than you don’t deserve to attract or keep any woman’s attention. To say that you love and admire women, while justifying your abuse of them is clearly propaganda and I am not buying it!
         24 likes
    • Laur - November 13th, 2014 at 10:30 am none Comment author #211144 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Your misogyny and “poor me” attitudes are showing and I guarantee you neither of them are attractive. People like to be around other people who like themselves. Also, you weren’t in a wheelchair until four years ago, so don’t blame this all on the chair.
         22 likes
      • Meh - November 13th, 2014 at 11:42 pm none Comment author #211514 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        That’s precisely what I thought when reading this. It’s his attitude, sense of entitlement over women’s bodies, and general “waaaahhhhhh wimminz are too privileged waahhh” tone than put me right off.
           22 likes
    • Lee - November 15th, 2014 at 1:11 am none Comment author #212109 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Oh, see, I was so sympathetic until all your MRA BS at the end. That’s what your actual problem with women is — you are angry and spiteful and entitled and a jackass and unlikable. That’s why women don’t want to sleep with you. Awesome guy in a wheelchair? Totally into it. B-hole child who hates women in a wheelchair? Not so much.
         17 likes
    • Ellesar - November 15th, 2014 at 3:53 am none Comment author #212162 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Law is on women’s side?! Try telling that to the majority of rape victims who never see their rapist held accountable!
         25 likes
      • Sabine - November 16th, 2014 at 1:31 am none Comment author #212589 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I nearly choked when I read that line too, Ellesar. Believe me Dustin, your lack of success with women is NOT about the wheelchair…
           10 likes
    • harpy - November 15th, 2014 at 11:41 pm none Comment author #212556 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      also this:
      “bias to the system which keeps the men guilty until proven innocent, but it takes more than his own words to prove it. She just needs to claim a crime or threat, he needs 350 witnesses and a letter from the Pope.”
      WHERE in the bloody hell do you live, because I sure would like to move there! here on the planet earth you have men raping, abusing and murdering women on fucking daily basis with like 99% of the crimes going unpunished. and if by some miracle there is a conviction, it’s usually a joke (Hello Oscar).
         18 likes
      • bella_cose - November 16th, 2014 at 9:22 am none Comment author #212737 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Funny that most men seem to think that as well. I don’t know where they get these ideas, but it’s proof of their power in society to make up lies that benefit them and have people take them as fact, merely because men are saying it’s so.
           10 likes
  17. Jess Martin - November 12th, 2014 at 12:28 pm none Comment author #210759 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Hi Dusin,
    Of course there are both ableist men and ableist women out there who would not consider a sexual relationship with someone with a disability so I’m sorry if you’ve been overly exposed to those women.
    I know for myself that if my husband had been in a wheelchair when we met I would have pursued him just the same. If he someday ends up in a wheelchair I will still have a sexual relationship with him. I can’t speak for all women but I’ve had attractions to men with physical disabilities that were at a peer level to me cognitively and I know that many of my female friends have as well.
    I also know many able-bodied women who are or were virgins at 35, not of their own choosing.
    We obviously have different perspectives on the merits of the sex industry. I believe that efforts to support people with disabilities with relationships or sex would be better spent facilitating an online dating site catering towards people with disabilities or doing public education dispelling myths around sexuality and disability.
       23 likes
    • Jess Martin - November 12th, 2014 at 2:37 pm none Comment author #210794 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I totally acknowledge that prejudice is an obstacle that people with disabilities have to navigate when they are pursuing a sexual partner. My point is this: let’s get rid of the obstacle through attitude reform rather than working around it using a system that harms other vulnerable people.
         18 likes
  18. Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 12th, 2014 at 1:03 pm none Comment author #210763 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    “Even if disabled men weren’t able to find willing partners, would it be just for the most marginalized demographic of women — many of whom are physically, intellectually, or developmentally disabled themselves — to provide this “service?” I believe not. It’s unacceptable to pit the interests of two vulnerable people groups against each other.”
    Yep. This is a good example of why arguments for disabled men to have prostituted women to use fails the test of intersectionality. Intersectionality (which third wavers seem to feel is their pet theory) states that all oppressions are interlocking and to work on one oppression and help one vulnerable group you cannot push down another group. Throwing prostituted women under the bus (to put it mildly) is not how you elevate and give increased quality of life to disabled men.
       23 likes
  19. Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 12th, 2014 at 1:22 pm none Comment author #210771 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Uggh I just clicked on link to the Huffington Post article and read this, “St. John used to be a booking agent for a popular escort agency in Vancouver. She soon discovered high demand from disabled adults as well as parents of teens with special needs, but there was nothing that catered to those clients.
    After talking to people in those communities, she was horrified to discover that many had reported unpleasant experiences with sex workers. The clients said they were treated with little care and no compassion.”
    Look at how this was framed. Prostituted women are portrayed as being abusive and exploitative towards disabled men when that completely inverts the reality of who is being abused. Trish St John claims that she was “horrified” at prostituted women’s behaviour. This is appalling to read.
       46 likes
    • Diogenes the Cynic - November 23rd, 2014 at 9:33 pm none Comment author #215949 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      In what area were you a prostitute, Jan? And what negative experiences did you have? What factors led to you choosing the profession? Are you still a prostitute now or have you managed to get out of the trade?
         1 likes
  20. Jen - November 13th, 2014 at 2:53 am none Comment author #211000 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    As a Disability Support Worker with qualifications in the field and years of experience in working with people who have disabilities, I feel that this service is justified and is much needed in most communities. This is not about objectifying and disrespecting women. Just because some people with disabilities can express themselves sexually with other people and have meaningful relationships doesn’t mean that they ALL can.
    This is about providing a service and equality to a minority of people who can’t otherwise have these intimate relationships whether it be due to the fact that their disability is highly physical and complex and they need mechanical help with hoists and the knowledge and skills that comes with using such implements or due to an intellectual disability that may not allow them to verbally express themselves enough or at all to have relationships with others.
    Going to a prostitute is not just about sex for some people. It’s about being intimate on an intellectual level. They want to feel like someone cares for them even if it’s just for an hour. They want to share a connection with a human being and not be constantly reminded that they are different to most people. And if that happens to be with someone they pay for, what’s so wrong with that? They aren’t just paying for sex. They are paying for compassion, understanding, knowledge and skills, professional curtsey and respect.
    Turning this into a argument of the negative treatment of prostitutes and women’s rights completely misses the point of the original article. It’s about helping men AND women with disabilities who otherwise would miss out on this basic human experience that most of us take for granted.
       1 likes
    • Anemone - November 13th, 2014 at 5:02 pm none Comment author #211358 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Does your disabled clientele include disabled people who are or have been in prostitution? Because disability is a risk factor for being prostituted. And you know the old saw, while disabled men may have a hard time getting laid, disabled women are at very high risk of being sexually abused. (This used to come up all the time when I was on Wrong Planet.)
      This is a gendered issue even within the disability community. Why should male desire trump female safety?
         33 likes
      • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 14th, 2014 at 1:31 pm none Comment author #211837 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        “Does your disabled clientele include disabled people who are or have been in prostitution? Because disability is a risk factor for being prostituted. ”
        You can say that again. This is not just in relation to physical disabilities but also mental disabilities such as PTSD. Just yesterday on the PTSD subreddit someone asked about work options for those with PTSD and a user responded that he found a job as a stripper in a gay club with a “very supportive boss” and fellow employees and was encouraging other people with PTSD to do the same, that it’s a great career for those disabled with PTSD. Not to mention this man apparently survived sexual abuse from his father. No one seemed to draw any connection. This was said on there and went completely unremarked on. If someone is disabled through prior trauma they are extremely vulnerable to abuse and revictimization.
           11 likes
        • Anemone - November 14th, 2014 at 1:47 pm none Comment author #211847 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          I was thinking of intellectual disabilities, learning disabilities, developmental disabilities, and mental health issues not limited to PTSD, but of course previous sexual abuse can be a big factor.
             8 likes
    • Dewey - November 13th, 2014 at 7:09 pm none Comment author #211414 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Going to a prostitute is not just about sex for some people. It’s about being intimate on an intellectual level. They want to feel like someone cares for them even if it’s just for an hour. They want to share a connection with a human being and not be constantly reminded that they are different to most people.
      And these disabled men can only make this connection through sex? That’s the most insultingly misandrist thing I’ve ever heard. That a man can’t connect with a woman intellectually or emotionally unless he’s fucking her paints all men as knuckle-dragging animals incapable of meaningful human experiences with humans who aren’t men. Good word, you must hate men something terrible to say such a thing.
         24 likes
      • Dewey - November 13th, 2014 at 8:03 pm none Comment author #211443 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Another thought: These men do realize the women are only pretending to care about them, yes? Prostitutes are hired actors, they aren’t there to have a good time and make friends. You said this was a “basic human experience” and unless a person feigning interest in another person in exchange for money is a common human experience, I’m afraid you’re maybe unwittingly romanticizing what is fundamentally a business transaction. The commodification of women’s bodies. Renting out women as human toilets. Really romantic stuff.
           28 likes
      • Diogenes the Cynic - November 23rd, 2014 at 9:40 pm none Comment author #215953 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Trolling Dewey?
        So presumably when a woman says “I’m a woman I have needs” she is being misogynist.
        Let’s not throw around words that mean “hate” when all we actually mean, at worst, is stereotyping. Personally I don’t think it’s specifically men that need physical intimacy in their lives but all human beings. I suppose in your eyes me saying that makes me a misanthropist.
           0 likes
    • Laur - November 13th, 2014 at 7:19 pm none Comment author #211420 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      MAYBE in a sex-equal world, and a world with real economic and racial/ethnic equality, there wouldn’t be a problem with having sexual “helpers” for disabled folks as well as for people who truly have problems sexually.
      MAYBE. I don’t know, because we certainly don’t live in such a world.
      I don’t know how familiar you are with the realities of life for prostituted women, but in any event, I recommend the website prostitutionresearch.com
      BTW, you say you are a Disability Support Worker; is “supporting” disabled men sexually something you’d like to do?
         14 likes
    • Jess Martin - November 13th, 2014 at 7:39 pm none Comment author #211432 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Hi Jen,
      I wholeheartedly disagree with your position as someone who has very intimate family and friend relationships with people who are non-verbal and very cognitively “low functioning”.
      You cannot pay for intimacy, only the illusion of it. Men with disabilities that pay for sex (and it is just men as disabled women are not using prostitution) are paying for sex. As someone who has been an intimate caregiver – providing bathing, toileting, hygiene support etc.- I know that I am not being paid for intimacy. Sometimes intimacy does develop in a caregiver/client relationship but this exists outside of the employee/client dynamic.
      I have very strong friendships with some of my respite clients but I’m aware that the client’s family or caregivers are not paying me for intimacy. They are paying me to provide safety and entertainment for their loved one so that they have time to do self care. Any true intimacy (the reciprocal kind) happens on the side. I’m not paid for it.
      I will be clear about what’s wrong with paying for compassion, understanding, and respect; it’s the fact that people must have these things outside of a paid dynamic for it to be meaningful, for the person to feel valued, and for the person to know that someone cares about the fact that he or she occupies space on the planet without needing a fistful of cash first.
      If you know of disabled people that must pay for intimacy (which is a basic need, yes) then I’d be happy to develop a friendship with them and I hope you would too.
      Contrary to what you mentioned, there is NOBODY (EVER. PERIOD.) who’s needs are too complex to have unpaid friends. I have friends that are non-verbal, tube-fed, require full showering and bathing support, require peri care, need to be wiped when they take a bowel movement, need to be shaved, need to have their pads and tampons changed when they have their periods, make involuntary loud noises, you name it.
      This is besides the point, but if someone was so cognitively challenged and limited in their communication skills that they can’t develop unpaid relationships with others (as you said), it would be very difficult to assess whether that person is giving consent to a sexual encounter. The fact that a person’s body may respond sexually to having someone touch them or be near them unclothed does not necessarily constitute consent and neither does facial expressions. I think that rape of people with low-incidence disabilities within this context is another huge concern that sex-industry lobbyists would like not to discuss. I believe that if someone is capable enough to communicate consent, they are capable enough to have unpaid intimacy.
      I find this argument very patronizing to the people in my life. My brother is completely non-verbal and does not use any kind of communication aids. I’m sure lots of people believe that he’s incapable of forming intimate relationships but those people would be dead wrong. There are no “untouchables” in the special needs community. There will absolutely be people that do not have intercourse in the disabled community in the same way that there will be fully-abled people who do not have intercourse. As I mentioned before, it is not a requisite part of our sexual expression.
         28 likes
    • sim345 - November 13th, 2014 at 9:48 pm none Comment author #211479 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      As a disability support worker you think it is appropriate to disable the majority of a caste of women as long as they re providing a service to disabled men? That is essentially what you are saying here. I don’t think you have considered the ramifications. And if going to a prostituted person to feel that someone cares is what a person is after, then one is barking up the wrong tree. We are no more or less caring than the next person, (like, erm, friends, counselors, therapists community groups etc..), but we are paid to pretend we love our job when we loathe it. And believe me, the men want sex. Some like to talk and feel loved but they want sex. Never have I encountered a client who didn’t want sex. You do know the job description don’t you?
         27 likes
    • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 4:04 pm none Comment author #211902 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I just have to point out the really obvious here. Prostitutes don’t care about Johns. The experience contains no intimacy at all. It’s an act, a pretence. The sex is clinical, to keep every drop of bidy secretions away from each other. No kissing. Many don’t hug. It’s perfunctory with a fake smile, fake moan fake laugh. The prostitute wants the money, get the job done as fast as possible and leave. Can’t wait to leave!
      Sound like caring and intimacy to you?
         24 likes
    • Ellesar - November 15th, 2014 at 3:58 am none Comment author #212164 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      The problem with your apparently reasoned statement is that you use the word ‘people’ when you should be using the word ‘men’. In these debates NO ONE is suggesting that male prostitutes should be available to service the needs of disabled women. And yet disabled women have sexual feelings that they may not be able to satisfy on their own!
         20 likes
  21. Michael Biggs - November 13th, 2014 at 5:54 am none Comment author #211047 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    The first priority is to protect powerless women and girls from exploitation, violation, assault and slavery. In Australia, much more active policing of existing laws, and activist protection of the victims, would be a good start.
    But of course, there are some very strong women running their own business in the sex industry, who don’t exploit other women. I was deeply impressed by Rachel Wotton in the documentary “Scarlet Road”. Her sex-work business addresses the needs of men with serious disabilities (and, indirectly, their carers). The movie shows a mature, strong and caring woman running a very lucrative, safe and legal business, which also shows kindness to the vulnerable. She is a role-model to women, reducing stigma against sex-workers, and I’d be proud of my wife if she wanted to do this sort of caring and professional work (of course I’m proud of her anyway!).
       2 likes
    • memoir of a trespasser - November 13th, 2014 at 6:27 pm none Comment author #211398 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “I’d be proud of my wife”
      If you’re such a fan, why offer your wife’s body instead of your own?
         33 likes
      • Michael Biggs - November 13th, 2014 at 10:11 pm none Comment author #211492 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Silly question – I couldn’t offer anyone’s body except my own. And if I could meet people’s needs and make a good living in this way, I’d love to think that I could do it.
           2 likes
        • Meh - November 13th, 2014 at 10:44 pm none Comment author #211501 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Such a caring misogynist. It’s lovely xo
             23 likes
        • memoir of a trespasser - November 14th, 2014 at 12:42 pm none Comment author #211813 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Silly because you think women are natural whores, but men aren’t?
             19 likes
    • bella_cose - November 13th, 2014 at 7:10 pm none Comment author #211415 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      What about disabled women? Perhaps you and your wife should set up shop sexually servicing disabled men and women. Then you could both be proud of each other.
         22 likes
      • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 14th, 2014 at 2:54 pm none Comment author #211876 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Yes let him go prostitute himself. These men that defend prostitution would never think of doing that with their bodies. They’re too good for that, while they want all women to be their fuck objects available to them on demand.
           23 likes
        • Michael Biggs - November 14th, 2014 at 8:09 pm none Comment author #212020 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          As I said above, I’d certainly be willing to do this work if the money and conditions were good enough. I think I might do some aspects of it well – but I doubt that I would get many customers.
          But even though there’s much less demand for men as sex workers, possibly many men would find it less demanding work than women do – if it’s true that its easier for many of us men to regard sexual acts as separate from our emotional life.
             1 likes
          • Michael Biggs - November 15th, 2014 at 9:41 pm none Comment author #212500 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            This last remark of mine was very poorly written, and could easily be misunderstood in many ways. I hope some people might see what I was trying to get at, but I’m sorry if it sounds like I was minimising the terrible multi-level impact on so many women and girls who are damaged by sexual exploitation.
               1 likes
          • bella_cose - November 15th, 2014 at 10:26 pm none Comment author #212521 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            What, are you kidding me? Most women have no trouble separating sex from emotion. Sex doesn’t create emotion, though I suppose it can amplify them if they exist.
            Prostitution would be easier for men, because they wouldn’t be getting penetrated over and over, unless they were screwing men. It’s really not equivalent to a woman in prostitution.
               16 likes
      • Sabine - November 14th, 2014 at 4:42 pm none Comment author #211925 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Hahahaha! Great comment bella_cose!
           6 likes
    • Dewey - November 13th, 2014 at 7:20 pm none Comment author #211422 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      You’re the documentarian promoting your project, a friend/lover of Ms. Wotton’s, a PR agent hired by her, or just incredibly delusional. I’m saddened by the knowledge that I’ll never find out which. (Not holding my breath for any forthcoming confessions.)
         17 likes
      • Michael Biggs - November 13th, 2014 at 10:22 pm none Comment author #211496 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        None of the above, I promise. A couple of years ago I saw a bit of the movie on TV, and then it turned out than many people at work (community services) had been just as inspired as I had. So at the time, I watched some discussions etc on the web – I’m sure there were some people who were cautious about it, but I can’t remember anyone attacking this type of work as “delusional”.
           1 likes
        • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 7:18 am none Comment author #211690 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          I said youwere delusional, not prostitution as a profession. Even the most naive newcomer to the profession would be disabused of all rosy illusions about the nature of the work in record time. Do you know where the majority of positive PR comes from? Brothel owners with dollar signs in their eyes. And it isn’t hard to squeeze affirming commentary from your employees when you know where to apply pressure. Does anyone, for example, really believe those fluffy Walmart commercials where workers testify about how awesome it is to work for a family of exploitative weasels? Those well-compensated liars accurately represent the workers, do they?
          For every sociopathic madam with a tear jerker of a life story, there’s a flock of impressionable misogynists, like yourself, ready to lap up every word as gospel. I know how your kind likes to rent your human toilets guilt-free.
             27 likes
    • Meh - November 13th, 2014 at 8:14 pm none Comment author #211448 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “She is a role-model to women, reducing stigma against sex-workers, and I’d be proud of my wife if she wanted to do this sort of caring and professional work (of course I’m proud of her anyway!).”
      A role model to women? Not this woman. There are other ways to support people. You don’t have to set yourself on fire to make others warm.
      And the bit about your wife – creepy. Just creepy.
         27 likes
      • Michael Biggs - November 13th, 2014 at 10:07 pm none Comment author #211487 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I remember Rachel Wotton talking about her partner in the film, and we get to hear a bit from him too, and he is definitely proud of her. You think this is creepy, but I certainly don’t. If you watch a 2 minute clip of Scarlet Road on Youtube, and you still think its creepy – well, we just have very different values.
           1 likes
        • Meh - November 13th, 2014 at 10:43 pm none Comment author #211499 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Um, yeah it’s still creepy.
          It’s sick just how much good old fashioned misogyny has warped into this, “Yeeaaah, I’m a caring partner. She’s just expressing herself and helping otherrrs” bullshit.
          It’s either you’re unaware of how misogynist you are, or you’re fully aware and being a troll. I really hope that you’re trolling.
             26 likes
          • Michael Biggs - November 14th, 2014 at 4:21 am none Comment author #211620 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            My approach is authentic and kind, so I really don’t think I’m a troll. But I’m often unsure about some aspects of radical feminism, so if that means I’m a misogynist, I’m happy to wear that one.
            But if you watch a little of Rachel Wotton speaking, I’d be surprised if you can’t see why I respect her, even if you don’t agree with me.
               1 likes
            • Meh - November 14th, 2014 at 11:49 am none Comment author #211794 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              I’m glad we agree that you’re a misogynist.
              Your heart bleeds for entitled men with lonely gherkins. Women are nothing more than fuck aids in the scenario you present.
                 22 likes
            • corvid - November 14th, 2014 at 12:05 pm none Comment author #211800 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              “My approach is authentic and kind…”
              Yeah, I hear that’s what consumers want nowadays.
                 19 likes
            • Sab - November 14th, 2014 at 4:13 pm none Comment author #211908 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              There are ex prostitutes on this thread that you choose to ignore entirely in favour of this wonan selling her ‘wares’ tgrough empowerment narrative.
              Johns ask, “So, do you do it for sex or money?” It’s the number one question asked. The answer has to be, ‘the sex’ because if it’s not, then the woman doesn’t get the money. It’s called fantasy. The truth is prostitutes are repulsed by johns, disgusted to the very core. You’re buying the fantasy being sold. It’s sold to financially survive and no other reason.
                 24 likes
    • sim345 - November 13th, 2014 at 9:54 pm none Comment author #211481 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      The stigma never belonged to us in the first place, so you’re not doing us any favours there! (“sex Worker’ is a sickening term, designed to obfuscate our lived reality.)Stigma belongs on the pimps and johns who prostitute us. I know a john when I read one.
         28 likes
      • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 6:48 am none Comment author #211676 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        He does give off a very strong John vibe, doesn’t he. I’ve talked to numerous Johns over the years about their experiences with prostitution and they always give me a glowing sales pitch for it, replete with words like “caring”, “empowered”, “safe”. And always delivered in the exact same lobotomized cult member sort of way.
        I’ve seen the same mindset at work in religious zealots. And sociopaths. They’re invariably empty husks desperately clinging to the artfully crafted and grandiose delusion that they’re above it all. Michael has watched an infomercial, sorry, a documentary that slapped a fabulous veneer on a very ugly cultural phenomenon and now he’s an expert on prostitution. Isn’t he the special one?
           28 likes
      • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 14th, 2014 at 1:09 pm none Comment author #211827 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        “The stigma never belonged to us in the first place, so you’re not doing us any favours there! (“sex Worker’ is a sickening term, designed to obfuscate our lived reality.)Stigma belongs on the pimps and johns who prostitute us. I know a john when I read one.”
        YES. Exactly! I want to upvote this x100. The stigma belongs on the pimps and johns not on you. I hope with the Nordic Model now the stigma will belong to fall in the right place on the people who deserve it, not on the exploited and victimized women.
           17 likes
      • Sab - November 16th, 2014 at 9:52 pm none Comment author #212979 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I used ‘sex worker’ instead of prostitute or ‘whore’ when wprking to protect myself from the reality. It serves two functions; to protect the prostitute and the john. I couldn’t use the word prostitute until I was well and truly out with an ‘ex’ prefix attached to the word. When talking to friends still in it, I use the title they’re comfortable with, out of respect for the individual. On a political level, I use the word prostitute. I abhor the word, whore. Escort, companion, working girl, play mistress, street walker/worker, private worker, masseuse with extras, and possibly many labels I’ve never heard or escape me right this moment are other terms I, and others used to mentally deal with it at the time by obscurring and softening the bluntness of the job.
           4 likes
    • Independent Radical - November 14th, 2014 at 1:13 am none Comment author #211541 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “The movie shows a mature, strong and caring woman running a very lucrative, safe and legal business, which also shows kindness to the vulnerable. She is a role-model to women, reducing stigma against sex-workers, and I’d be proud of my wife if she wanted to do this sort of caring and professional work (of course I’m proud of her anyway!).”
      Since you watched an entire documentary about Wotton, care to tell us something about her other than how rich she is or how good she is at serving the needs of others? What hobbies does this woman have? She probably does something over then giving men orgasms, right? Or did you not think about that while you were watching this documentary? What kind of music/art/film/books does she like? What are her philosophical and political beliefs (aside from “men need orgasms)? Can you or any of the men she has serviced tell us anything about this woman that does not revolve around her ability to please others and become rich as a result?
      P.S. Telling us her breast size, waist size, leg length, skin tone or general level of prettiness does not count.
      Also, you really think people run “lucrative” businesses for the sake of benefiting others? Ever heard of something called advertising. Many advertisements contain statements like “_________ really cares about its clients/customers”. Do you believe all of them? And people think I have an overly optimistic view of human nature.
         23 likes
      • Michael Biggs - November 14th, 2014 at 8:41 pm none Comment author #212033 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Certainly when I saw the movie I wondered about her as a person, and what her interests are – probably more than I would with most people I would see on tv. In her case, it actually is possible to find out a little bit, because people have posted some quite personal speeches she’s given.
        But I understand the point you’re making – men who pay for sex are probably mainly interested in just the sex, not the woman (or man) who they are paying.
           1 likes
        • Independent Radical - November 16th, 2014 at 3:20 am none Comment author #212633 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          “Certainly when I saw the movie I wondered about her as a person, and what her interests are – probably more than I would with most people I would see on tv.”
          And yet you did not actually tell me anything about her.
          “In her case, it actually is possible to find out a little bit, because people have posted some quite personal speeches she’s given.”
          I bet no parts from any of these speeches made it into the documentary, did it?
          “But I understand the point you’re making – men who pay for sex are probably mainly interested in just the sex, not the woman (or man) who they are paying.”
          For once, somebody get my point. But it is no coincidence that the men using prostituted women/men do not care about the prostituted people as humans. I think you would have to not care in order to buy sex from people, when you could be going out and having genuine (non-economically coerced) interactions with people.
             3 likes
      • Missfit - November 15th, 2014 at 5:27 pm none Comment author #212408 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Surprisingly, men think good role-models for women are women who are dedicated into servicing and pleasing men…
           21 likes
    • Jan (@Jan4Matt) - November 14th, 2014 at 1:54 pm none Comment author #211851 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “The movie shows a mature, strong and caring woman running a very lucrative, safe”
      You mean the FANTASY is that it’s safe and lucrative. It’s not safe. Prostituted women have a rate of death 40x higher than the general population and rates of PTSD higher than war vets. WHAT about that says safe to you ?
      As for lucrative, I would be willing to bet that any money made from prostitution is run through very quickly, due to the shame women feel as they are doing this. A survivor on twitter the other day was talking about how it made her feel subhuman (and the continued insistence on denying her exploitation and suffering continues to make her feel subhuman), do you think that a person who feels subhuman is able to have the self care necessary to safe money and invest it provide for themselves in future ? Do you think someone being degraded is able to have motivation to wisely manage their money when they are being made to feel subhuman ? Do you think they are able to regard themselves as deserving of the money or anything good in life ? I don’t know but I would be willing to bet if you do some surveys on it it is like those who win the lottery (and most prostituted women don’t even make anything near that much) any money acquired is gone in five years.
      One Danish sugar baby that I read about gave away the 6000 pound shoes a sugar daddy bought for her because they were so nauseating to her. She was so disgusted she didn’t even want to touch the money.
         22 likes
    • Meh - November 15th, 2014 at 5:47 pm none Comment author #212415 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Hey Mikey,
      I watched Scarlet Road last night just to see what you were fucking on about. It was shit. Full of inspirational/uplifting background music and misguided opinions.
      Wotton paints feminists who don’t agree with her as asexual, stupid and irrelevant. At one point she picks up a copy of ‘Anticlimax’ (I think it was) and says, “Sounds like she’s never had a climax before in her life” – because har harrr feminazis never climax because they don’t gots no sexy timezz LOLOLOL.
      She also has a good old lol with a “Swedish sex worker” about how dumb feminists are for assuming that a one hour session is “just non-stop penetration”.
      Then that dumbarse Eva Cox comes on talking shit like: “feminists who don’t like sex workers tend to be a bit grumpy at me”.
      The whole documentary was just shit. I’m glad I watched it though – it’s good to get an insight into how uncritical sex-pos horseshit really is.
         23 likes
  22. Ed Drain - November 13th, 2014 at 7:52 am none Comment author #211078 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Thank you so much for what you have written. I hear all the time about men who “need” to use woman in this disgusting way. I hear from men who feel like they are not “attractive” enough. How about they make their character attractive? How about they actually try to find some genuine respect, admiration and love for those around them? Why is this lost on so many men?
       21 likes
  23. Madeleine b - November 13th, 2014 at 3:15 pm none Comment author #211303 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    I call bullshit on this.
    Nobody is saying sex is an inalienable right.
    It is a need. Some people are fine with that need not being met, or simply attending to their own needs.
    For those that choose to pay to have that need met – why should they be demonized ?
    If I were disabled and single, you can bet your ass I would consider paying someone to meet my needs.
    There is nothing wrong with two consenting adults agreeing to this.
    Weird.
       4 likes
    • Meghan Murphy - November 13th, 2014 at 4:46 pm none Comment author #211346 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      A ‘need’ is something you need for survival… Water, food, shelter, for example. A man doesn’t ‘need’ to be able to put his penis inside a woman’s vagina in order to survive. That’s ridiculous. He can masturbate if he likes. If it’s about physical affection, well, one also doesn’t ‘need’ heterosexual, penetrative sex in order to get physical affection…
         37 likes
      • Michael Biggs - November 14th, 2014 at 4:42 am none Comment author #211628 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Obviously you’re right, Meghan. If a “need” is only something you need for survival, then sex is not a need.
        But going back to “Scarlet Road”, some men with disabilities aren’t able to masturbate, or even touch themselves. Some can’t achieve penetrative sex, but they can still desperately yearn for, and appreciate, intimate and sexual touch. Its easy to see why some of them would have such strong desires for sex that are prepared to pay generously for it (and if they can’t move themselves, they sometimes don’t have many other uses for their money).
        This doesn’t make access to women’s bodies their ‘right’. But its not surprising that they (or their carers) sometimes seek the service. And of course, its not surprising if there are many more disabled men than women seeking to pay for some sort of sex, although I’d love to know more about that.
           1 likes
        • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 8:08 am none Comment author #211709 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Then why don’t you go round to all the guys who can’t masturbate and offer to hold a fleshlight for them? Why does your end of the conversation continually come back to hiring women as masturbation aids? Women’s bodies have always got to be involved, far as you’re concerned. The reality is that they don’t.
          You keep inadvertently proving the point that it’s about entitlement to women’s bodies. Nothing more.
             30 likes
        • Laur - November 14th, 2014 at 4:48 pm none Comment author #211928 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          “But going back to “Scarlet Road”, some men with disabilities aren’t able to masturbate, or even touch themselves. Some can’t achieve penetrative sex, but they can still desperately yearn for, and appreciate, intimate and sexual touch.”
          These guys are creative. Don’t tell me they’ve figured out NO WAY to get off without another person by now.
          I hate this argument, regarding disabled men’s right to be sexually serviced. It acts like the only group of people being left out of the equation are disabled men, and that’s simply not true. Disabled men are still men. I am quite sure these men would be a lot happier if they stopped blaming their lot in life on women and found ways to be happy right now.
             20 likes
        • lizor - November 16th, 2014 at 5:28 am none Comment author #212672 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          If you believe so strongly in the idea that disabled men need someone to give them a hand job or provide a lubricated orifice for their use, then why don’t you piss off and provide that service instead of arguing that other people must do it? Actions speak louder than words, Michael.
             9 likes
      • Madeleine b - November 14th, 2014 at 5:14 am none Comment author #211637 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Most humans have sexual needs.
        This is not a new concept.
        These needs can be met in all sorts of ways.
        Reference any developmental needs model.
           2 likes
        • Meghan Murphy - November 14th, 2014 at 9:27 am none Comment author #211735 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Sexuality does not necessarily = “sex” in a conventional/heteronormative sense. Also, sexual desires, for example the desire to have sex with a woman, are not sexual “needs.”
             23 likes
        • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 12:53 pm none Comment author #211820 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Careful there, you’re hedging on the assertion that rape is a natural, inevitable part of human society. If sex is a basic biological need, then it logically follows that men are entitled to get it any way they can.
          As far as developmental models go, I assume you’re referring to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Sex is in the bottom tier because humanity would cease to exist if people stopped sexually reproducing; it’s a propagation of the species thing, not an individual need. And we know for a fact that sex isn’t necessary for reaching self-actualization. Isaac Newton and Nikola Tesla were virgins when they died and I doubt anyone is going to argue that they didn’t get to fulfill their potential because they never got their rocks off (with assistance, that is!).
             19 likes
    • Dewey - November 13th, 2014 at 6:16 pm none Comment author #211392 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      So if you woke up tomorrow as the sole survivor of a fast-acting plague with all the food, water, fuel, etc., all to yourself, you’re telling us you would still die?
      Weird.
      By the by, “consent” is a really tricky word when we’re talking about prostitution. By definition a prostitute cannot have consensual sex with a client, but she can consent to be raped by a client. Support prostitution, support rape. Where would you like your “pro-rape” button sent?
         24 likes
      • Madeleine b - November 14th, 2014 at 5:25 am none Comment author #211639 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I would attend to my own needs in that scenario, but being the sole survivor I might die anyway, I expect, from any number of causes.
        Your ideas on consent and rape seem strange to me.
        I know what consent is, and I know what rape is, but thank you for telling me I support rape.
        I am familiar with both, but only support one.
           2 likes
        • bella_cose - November 14th, 2014 at 9:40 am none Comment author #211743 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Well, at least you’re honest about supporting paid rape. If only all people like you would be so honest about it, and admit they have no desire to analyze the context in which choices are made, and how utterly meaningless consent can be.
             26 likes
        • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 1:32 pm none Comment author #211839 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          In the context of truly consensual sex, women have the right to veto sex acts they aren’t comfortable with and partners they don’t want to sleep with. Prostitutes aren’t granted those rights, their bodily autonomy is null and void, and any sex acts performed under financial duress, which most prostitution is, is a form of economically coerced sex. Or rape. Wherever there is any form of coercion, there cannot be real consent.
             22 likes
          • Laur - November 14th, 2014 at 4:41 pm none Comment author #211924 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            Exactly. Disabled men visit prostitues b/c these are the group of woman who can’t say NO to him!
               19 likes
            • Dewey - November 14th, 2014 at 6:47 pm none Comment author #211992 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              I think this applies to allJohns. One of the major selling points of prostitution is that she has to do whatever you ask of her with a smile on her face. She can’t refuse or there goes her rent/groceries/gas/utilities/etc. walking out the door.
              What a powerful aphrodisiac it must be for those poor beta males who have been rejected time after time by cold-hearted bitchez to wield that level of power over an attractive woman.
              I think that could be the most dangerous aspect of prostitution, and porn for that matter: the way it eroticizes women’s subjugation. There will never, ever be equality as long as men are getting off on sexual domination. It further entrenches the notion that women exist to be controlled, used and abused.
                 15 likes
    • Missfit - November 13th, 2014 at 6:27 pm none Comment author #211397 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Have you read the article? And you come back with ‘sex is a need’ (while it is not, as Meghan said)?
      If you read the artice, you clearly did not understand it. You’re saying: ‘if I were disabled and single, you can bet your ass I would consider paying someone to meet my needs.’ Well, I’m abled and single, should I consider paying someone to meet my ‘needs’? What about if I am disabled then, then I should? That is clearly ableist. What you said suppose that a disabled person should view himself as someone who will have to resort to paying if he wishes to be physically intimate with someone. And I intentionnally used the pronoun ‘he’ here because whenever it’s time to talk about disabled persons who may suffer from a lack of intimacy/affection and/or sex! (of course) it is always men. Men’s needs are always so important, that I know. But I feel disability is just an excuse some men use to overtly claim their right to prostitution; many men, disabled or not, would like to claim the same (I am too shy, not attractive enough, not alpha enough, socially awkward, to ‘get’ the woman of my choosing – I need prostituted women because what about my neeeeeeeedz).
         28 likes
      • Madeleine b - November 14th, 2014 at 5:43 am none Comment author #211645 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I would consider iif i was a single able woman too.
        Why not?
        If you want to then you should be free to do that too!
        It may be preferable, and not some bastion of the damned, as you imply.
        I called it a need, not a right. As long as they can find a willing partner and it is legal, why should it not happen?
        There are many happy caring sex workers, and many who work with disabled clients and also advocate for reform and education.
        Is prostitution the real issue here?
        Nobody is claiming a “right” that exists in a vacuum.
        I know plenty of people who were absent a willing sexual partner,
        The response to this situation may include a range of actions, including doing nothing.
        Some may want to handle it themselves, others may save up for months for one night of physical pleasure.
        Ok
        Each to their own.
           3 likes
        • memoir of a trespasser - November 14th, 2014 at 11:23 am none Comment author #211785 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          “absent a willing sexual partner”
          When you pay for sex you are still absent a willing sexual partner, you’ve just financially extorted away her ability to say No.
             28 likes
        • Missfit - November 15th, 2014 at 5:52 pm none Comment author #212418 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          ‘I would consider iif i was a single able woman too.’
          Do you just say that in an attempt to give the false impression that this is not a gendered issue or would you truly do it? Because truly, the truth is that women (single or not, able or not) do not hire men to sexually please them (and sorry but pointing to an exception does not change that). There are many women’s bodies advertised in my local newspaper for men to hire to sexually service them but no men advertised for women.
          ‘Is prostitution the real issue here?’ Well yes, prostitution is the issue here, wasn’t it obvious? And frankly, with all we know about prostitution, how patriarchy/capitalism/colonialism plays into it, it’s consequences on women, to see someone’s comment limited to ‘I don’t see any problem with this, I’ve heard there are happy sex workers'; is it possible to be more short-sighted? (I know many men turn so intentionally when it comes to this subject though).
             15 likes
    • Meh - November 13th, 2014 at 8:26 pm none Comment author #211454 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Sex is only a need in a reproductive context (and even then, it’s not needed). Stop making this a “but the menz need da sexy times bcos of da biologyyyy” argument.
         20 likes
      • Madeleine b - November 14th, 2014 at 5:44 am none Comment author #211646 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        I am not a man.
        I have sexual needs.
        Invalid.
           1 likes
        • bella_cose - November 14th, 2014 at 9:46 am none Comment author #211745 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          You’re not very smart, are you? You have sexual desires, not needs. Big difference.
             28 likes
        • Meh - November 14th, 2014 at 11:41 am none Comment author #211791 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          What a little dumbarse you are.
          You have sexual desires – they’re not needs. Stop being so dramatic.
          And don’t “invalid” me when your argument is utter bullshit. Stop embarrassing yourself.
             25 likes
          • Madeleine b - November 14th, 2014 at 5:10 pm none Comment author #211941 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            It is clear to me now you are mra trolls trying to make feminists look like fringe weirdoes who are anti-sex.
            That, or you are too basic to remediate.
            Toodles and never give up on understanding big ideas!
            Reach up to mediocrity at least!
            I believe in you.
            Xxx
               2 likes
            • Meghan Murphy - November 16th, 2014 at 1:35 am none Comment author #212591 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              Ha! Yeah we’re the mra trolls… You got it.
                 20 likes
              • Meh - November 16th, 2014 at 2:11 am none Comment author #212605 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                Stop attacking us and calling us names because you’ve embarrassed yourself through ignorance and we’ve called you out on it.
                   10 likes
                • Meh - November 16th, 2014 at 2:13 am none Comment author #212607 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  **to Madeleine of course! Don’t know why it’s sending to Meghan lol
                     5 likes
            • Dewey - November 16th, 2014 at 8:19 am none Comment author #212709 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              How very mature. “The commenters adroitly refute my every argument and that’s so frustrating! I know what I’ll do! I’ll call them names, stomp my feet and huff out of here. That’ll show them!”
              Consider us pwned.
                 10 likes
            • Missfit - November 16th, 2014 at 4:50 pm none Comment author #212886 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              mra troll, your projection is so obvious.
                 6 likes
        • Sabine - November 14th, 2014 at 4:56 pm none Comment author #211933 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          “I would consider iif i was a single able woman too. Why not?”
          IF (I am assuming that is what iif means?!) you were a single able woman. Not a man, eh? Please take your trolling and embarrassing lack of knowledge or insight elsewhere.
             24 likes
          • Madeleine b - November 14th, 2014 at 5:22 pm none Comment author #211949 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            I am a woman, married to a man, who has no problem with legal consensual sex including prostitution.
            Mind blowing I know.
            Do you even know any sex workers? Or women?
               2 likes
            • Sabine - November 16th, 2014 at 1:58 am none Comment author #212598 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              “Do you even know any sex workers? Or women?
              How utterly lame. I know prostitutes (please give the sex worker term a rest) AND women, yes. Mind blowing I know… And my previous comment still stands. Ta-ta.
                 19 likes
  24. Survivorthriver - November 14th, 2014 at 3:46 pm none Comment author #211895 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Male sexual needs can be released with masturbation.
    What males state as a “need” is the desire to dominate females, to validate their male dominance rights over, and to reassure their ego.
    There is no longer any need to perpetuate the species as we have serious overpopulation. That is the reason we have to question the definition of “sex” as a penis in vagina act, period.
    The planet is drowning in seed. How many women and children trafficked to meet the “need” – wrong, it is a desire – the entitled attitudes of males?
    What would happen is males switched from focusing their obsessions on manufactured/commodified needs that are really rationalizations for delusional desires. What is males did not watch one to two hours of porn a day?
    What if beta males rejected the commodification of their community – their female co-workers, their children, their beta female partners – and, focused their energies on stewarding community, helping their brothers and sisters and putting a priority on making their world a better place? There might not be such an obsession with a bodily act confused as a “need” and a “right”.
    The patriarchal definition of sex, and the cultural treatment of women as sex objects has pornified the hive male mind.
    I say, spill that seed upon the ground and be done with it.
       22 likes
    • marv - November 14th, 2014 at 8:54 pm none Comment author #212038 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “I say, spill that seed upon the ground and be done with it.”
      Well we have to consider the hazardous ecological implications. The seed has been infected by porn exposure and by sexism in general. You never know what kind of mutations could evolve when contaminated semen comes in contact with other organisms on the ground or if it leeches into the water. Maybe the safest possible thing to do is dispose of the toxins in nuclear waste facilities. In the future we may be able to blast it into interstellar space. Ideally prevention is the best method but that would require castration. I prefer the last strategy though it is likely the most unrealistic to implement.
         8 likes
  25. Champ - November 15th, 2014 at 4:13 pm none Comment author #212373 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Women CHOOSE to be prostitutes. Women see they have assets that they can turn into profit. If a woman advertises that she will trade money for sex, then she is getting exactly what she wants when someone chooses to utilize her service. To say women are victims of prostitution is ridiculous. How about not being a prostitute if you truly believe it is so degrading? You are very unintelligent if you feel it is the only option, yet continue because it is so degrading.
       3 likes
    • Sabine - November 16th, 2014 at 2:04 am none Comment author #212599 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      No, YOU are very unintelligent. Period. Have you read anything whatsoever on this website? Or anything at ALL about the prostitution industry??? Obviously not. But I guess research doesn’t feature much in mindless, tedious trolling…
         16 likes
      • Champ - November 16th, 2014 at 3:34 pm none Comment author #212860 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Yes, I have actually. Besides the few unfortunate women and children sold into the sex industry, women make a CHOICE to sell themselves. When you make a choice, you accept responsibility for your actions. So many comments say “look how these poor women are victims of prostitution; it left them with PTSD, addiction, etc.” Well, perhaps you can DECIDE to not sell your body and avoid all of the the consequences that come along with it. Are these women so greedy that they continuously put themselves in harms way for a quick buck?
           2 likes
        • Meghan Murphy - November 16th, 2014 at 4:36 pm none Comment author #212879 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Most women do not “choose” prostitution. They are either forced to make a “choice” due to circumstances (i.e. poverty) or are coerced or forced by family members, pimps, etc. There are many factors that lead women and girls into prostitution, but to say it is simply a “choice” is overly simplistic and ignorant.
             19 likes
          • Champ - November 16th, 2014 at 5:23 pm none Comment author #212898 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            Whatever the motivation, most CHOOSE that lifestyle for the easy quick money. Prostitutes exist because of supply and demand. Disabled people have every right to pay for a service between two consenting adults.
               1 likes
            • Meghan Murphy - November 16th, 2014 at 6:07 pm none Comment author #212913 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              You can be sure that they would “choose” something else if they had other options for survival.
                 14 likes
          • Champ - November 16th, 2014 at 5:25 pm none Comment author #212899 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            To say the majority prostitution is simply a choice is correct.
               1 likes
            • Meghan Murphy - November 16th, 2014 at 6:06 pm none Comment author #212912 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              Oh yeah? Then how is it that over 80 per cent of prostituted women/girls are pimped/trafficked?
                 15 likes
              • Champ - November 16th, 2014 at 7:02 pm none Comment author #212926 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                This statement is false. Check your facts. Over 80 percent come from rough backgrounds, but they still have a choice.
                   1 likes
                • Meghan Murphy - November 17th, 2014 at 12:33 pm none Comment author #213263 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                  I have checked my facts. A number of times. 84 per cent of women are controlled by a third party (i.e. a pimp). Tell us more, though, anonymous internet man!
                     12 likes
        • Meh - November 16th, 2014 at 4:44 pm none Comment author #212884 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          So you’re effectively saying that women who enter prostitution are extremely privileged because they get paid?
             13 likes
          • Meghan Murphy - November 16th, 2014 at 6:13 pm none Comment author #212916 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            LUCKY LADIES AMIRITE
               13 likes
            • Meh - November 16th, 2014 at 8:19 pm none Comment author #212948 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              Oh totally. There’s nothing hotter than being touched/penetrated by somebody that you wouldn’t ordinarily be caught dead with. CUZ, LIKE, WOMEN ARE GREEDY FOR MONEY N SHIT.
              A critical and nuanced discussion of women’s subordination/oppression under patriarchy isn’t necessary because ‘choice’, cuz Champ sez so… so yeah…
                 11 likes
          • Champ - November 16th, 2014 at 6:59 pm none Comment author #212925 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            I not saying they are privileged at all. I am claiming that they choose to sell their bodies because they see a way to profit from it. Poverty does not force someone to sell their bodies. If someone wishes to pay for the services that these women are offering, they are doing no wrong. This whole article screams victim complex, because a prostitute can’t be held responsible for choosing to sell herself, right? It’s all those damn men with their damn patriarchy for buying it blah blah blah. This article and majority of comments are complete ignorance. “The prostitute is not, as feminists claim, the victim of men, but rather their conqueror. An outlaw who controls the sexual channels between nature and culture.” – Camille Paglia.
            It’s a personal choice with consequences. Get over it.
               2 likes
            • Meghan Murphy - November 17th, 2014 at 12:41 pm none Comment author #213266 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              Poverty and coercion are almost the ONLY things that force people to sell their bodies, actually. Unless you’re going to start providing evidence for your claims or just, like, not outright lying, I’m not going to publish your comments anymore, Champ.
                 11 likes
            • Laur - November 17th, 2014 at 1:15 pm none Comment author #213272 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              “It’s a personal choice with consequences. Get over it. ”
              What’s “personal” in feeling and believing you were put on earth to suck dick, that it’s the only thing you’re good at, good for? Because I see plenty that’s cultural, and even more that’s related to male power, than I do that’s “personal” in those beliefs. These are beliefs shared by many women about themselves, and a disproportional number of these are women who wind up in the sex trade.
                 14 likes
            • Missfit - November 19th, 2014 at 1:27 pm none Comment author #214100 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
              Their conqueror? How having a stranger’s dick push down your throat while hear him say ‘you little dirty whore’ is conquering? Please explain.
              Is there anyone approvingly quoting Paglia besides MRAs?
                 8 likes
              • Meghan Murphy - November 19th, 2014 at 2:13 pm none Comment author #214117 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
                “Is there anyone approvingly quoting Paglia besides MRAs?”
                MRAs and evopsych bros (so, MRAs).
                   7 likes
        • Dewey - November 16th, 2014 at 5:08 pm none Comment author #212895 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          Greedy?! The majority of prostitutes are living in poverty, many struggling to support children as a single mom. High paid escorts are a very tiny percentage of the whole.
          Care to flaunt your glaring ignorance some more?
             20 likes
        • Missfit - November 16th, 2014 at 6:17 pm none Comment author #212917 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          See, I CHOSE to work in prostitution. I wasn’t kidnapped and sold as a sex slave. I can’t say it was an informed choice though (I hadn’t feminist information then, thus I was uninformed about many things). It was an unhealty choice. I was young. I felt I wasn’t good at nothing, I viewed myself as a commodity, I felt alienated. Many women who end up in prostitution were sexually abused as children, did you know that? Don’t you think that might have had some influence on their ‘choice’? Now I am going to specify that I know this is not the case for every woman in prostitution before someone accuses me of saying so. But I sincerely believe that without patriarchal capitalism upbringing (and colonialism for many women), no woman would ‘choose’ to have their bodies used/sold like that. It is simply inhumane. It is anti-female. Do people who spew the choice rethoric even think?
             14 likes
        • Sab - November 16th, 2014 at 10:03 pm none Comment author #212985 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          The choice between paying rent, electric, food, medical, clothing and transport
          Or
          The choice to be homeless, hungry, begging and if she has them, losing her children.
          Now that’s privelege. Not!
             11 likes
        • Sabine - November 16th, 2014 at 10:35 pm none Comment author #212995 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          No, you very clearly HAVEN’T actually. Your total lack of comprehension on this subject is staggering along with a shocking absence of compassion or empathy for women forced and coerced into “choosing” prostitution to survive. Your “argument” is beyond simplistic. It’s utterly moronic. It’s not a “few” unfortunate women. This is something you would have immediately discovered had you taken the time to do even the most shallow research in order to attempt to back up your breathtakingly, desperately ignorant assumptions. Stop wasting everybody’s time with such callous nonsense.
             11 likes
          • Sabine - November 16th, 2014 at 10:36 pm none Comment author #212996 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
            P.S. This is in response to Champ’s initial response to my previous one! Make sense? ;)
               6 likes
    • Laur - November 16th, 2014 at 7:31 am none Comment author #212692 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Champ, where are you getting your information from?
      “You are very unintelligent if you feel it is the only option, yet continue because it is so degrading. ”
      Really??
         12 likes
    • Dewey - November 16th, 2014 at 8:22 am none Comment author #212711 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I think you’ve just won the “Obviously didn’t read any of the comments” award.
         13 likes
    • Meh - November 16th, 2014 at 1:26 pm none Comment author #212814 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Champ, why are you here? For doodle attention?
         14 likes
    • ArgleBargle - November 17th, 2014 at 5:35 pm none Comment author #213343 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Champ, most women (and men) who have been raped by ‘johns’ were first hurt in this way when they were children, i.e. a large number 16 years and under and a larger number under 18. Go on, do a survey, see how many start as adults, not nearly as many as you think. Now, keep in mind, one of the tasks of adolescence is to firm up your sense of self, who you are in the world. Then ‘john’ comes along with 50 bucks or so to show them who they are. And once kids are labeled and treated as ‘whore’ and ‘prostitute’ it is very very hard for them to get past that shame, and it gets internalized. And just that, even absent any other thing such as economic need or force, is enough to keep a person traumatized and down and accessible to ‘johns’ for quite some time. So. Champ, please quit adding to the massive harm already done by insisting it must be choice.
         8 likes
      • marv - November 17th, 2014 at 8:08 pm none Comment author #213388 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Champ is a chump. He is an uncritical conformist to *man*stream thinking. He prefers to gnash his teeth in the outer darkness as opposed to stepping into the light of truth. It’s too bright for his eyes so he chooses to live in the shadow of hate.
           9 likes
  26. Isaac Tickley Quill - November 24th, 2014 at 1:56 am none Comment author #216031 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Oh how boringly Heteronormative you all are! Maybe one day someone will grasp the idea of equality and do something with it!
    I do find it quite amazing that female sexuality is ignored in this article and as a Gay Cripple I know of many Straight and Queer Cripple Ladies who happily talk of their desires and even practices of paying for their ration. Not all the ladies are happy with a widow Comforter and 24/7 TV.
    Time to get with the Big “E” word!
       1 likes
    • Meghan Murphy - November 24th, 2014 at 1:28 pm none Comment author #216229 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Oh I see. Now buying sex from women makes you ‘queer.’ Minds like yours make me feel hopeless about the future of humanity. http://feministcurrent.com/9226/johns-are-now-an-oppressed-sexual-minority/
         13 likes
      • Morag - February 1st, 2015 at 6:02 pm none Comment author #245359 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        Ewww … he thinks sex can be “rationed.” Like meat is rationed during times of war or economic depression. What a pig-dog. Phooey.
           2 likes
    • lo - November 24th, 2014 at 3:36 pm none Comment author #216260 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Just looked at your twitter, and you’re a MRA. Not surprising.
         3 likes
    • Missfit - November 24th, 2014 at 4:49 pm none Comment author #216273 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Have you made your complaint to HuffPo about their heteronormativity and their ignorance of Cripple Ladies’ sexuality?
         3 likes
  27. Martin Dufresne - November 26th, 2014 at 10:53 am none Comment author #216989 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Dear Ms. Martin,
    I have translated your excellent essay (above) into French and would like your permission to put it up on the abolitionist http://ressources.prostitution.wordpress.com and on my FB page. Meghan Murphy is aware of my work, as I have often translated her own essays.
    I am of course in total agreement with your points.
    Thank you,
    Martin
       5 likes
  28. Edouard - November 29th, 2014 at 5:57 am none Comment author #218408 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Dear Ms. Martin,
    I wrote an answer to your article, it’s been published here : http://studentsforliberty.org/europe/2014/11/24/disabled-people-pay-for-sex/
    I would be delighted to have an open debate with you.
    Respectfully,
    Edouard
       0 likes
    • Laur - November 29th, 2014 at 7:18 pm none Comment author #218717 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      LOL at your “arguments.” Did you even bother to read the comments to this article? They’re almost all answered on this very page. Not to mention that all the articles and comments on the many, many other articles published on the sex industry on FeministCurrent.com
      And, um, the latest article on consent? You might want to check that out too. Really, it gets tiring responding to the same simple beliefs over and over.
         4 likes
    • Jess Martin - December 15th, 2014 at 12:20 pm none Comment author #225918 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      I accept your proposal to engage in an open debate. What forum do you suggest?
         0 likes
  29. Christian Muellner - December 14th, 2014 at 7:08 pm none Comment author #225656 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    Dear Miss Martin, your argument is lacking of reasoning. I will explain. I am a disabled man: therefore I think I got a right to explain my thoughts about this topic. 1. YOu are speaking of disabled men, but you are not differentiating between disabilities itself – except for the >power imbalanceusing< of the example of disabled prostitutes on moral grounds…I don´t know what to say.
       0 likes
  30. marcus perry - February 1st, 2015 at 1:33 pm none Comment author #245333 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
    not all disabled are monsters. some disabled will never be able to have sexual relations with regular women in regular ways.
    the notions you bring up are valid. of course. thier also heartless to an extent. you understand that women with these same disabilities can also call upon these services. should they be denied the right to express themselves in consensual sexual activities as well?? honestly i hope you agree cause if you dont then that is the route definition of a sexist thought.
    we all or most of the world understands that love can happen to us all. not all disabled or regular people have that option. women tend to choose healthy men to be with. are disable men supposed to just roll under a rock and forget their desires to have sex. prostitution will never go away. there are sex therapist that help patients get ready for sex. its an actual medical process. while it may not include actual sex the purpose remains the same. to help disabled live as close to a normal life as possible. disabled men and women.
       0 likes
    • Thomas Eisenecker - February 1st, 2015 at 2:01 pm none Comment author #245336 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Marcus,
      no matter what “desires” disabled men have, you are still in favor of a special class of women who are basically supposed to provide (sexual) services to men at men’s whim, in this case disabled men. That’s pretty much textbook male entitlement.
      And besides, “desires” are “desires”, not needs, like eating or drinking, that have to be acted upon in order to survive.
         11 likes
      • marcus perry - February 3rd, 2015 at 10:50 pm none Comment author #245900 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        thank you for commenting. i agree with you on everything especially that desires are desires. remember that the women in this special class did have a say in being there. some dont and that needs to be fixed, but history has shown that women can always make easy money in sex services. that is kind of uneasy for me to accept as well. history have shown it. im not only saying that its ok for the special class to exist for men. women can have this service of men or women as well. im not only defending the male side of this. while i do see what laur i belive said on how most of the services rendered are purchases by men. still the option should be kept somewhat available to all who are willing. it goes without saying that the work area should always remain safe and enjoyable for both parties. ive never said that its a one way streak. someone assumed that was my take on it.
           0 likes
    • Morag - February 1st, 2015 at 4:56 pm none Comment author #245349 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      “you understand that women with these same disabilities can also call upon these services. should they be denied the right to express themselves in consensual sexual activities as well?? honestly i hope you agree cause if you dont then that is the route definition of a sexist thought.”
      How, exactly, can someone (male or female) be “denied the right” to consensual sexual activity? Is that when the sex police barge into the bedroom and pull two consenting partners apart and arrest them for the crime of mutual, freely-given sexual pleasure? Or, is that simply when the desired partner says, “no”?
      Which “rights” are “denied” when someone — even a lonely, frustrated or isolated person — is without a sexual partner? Answer: none. No rights have been denied.
      Also: you don’t know what sexism is. Please find out before you ever again try to teach feminists that they are having “a sexist thought.” Good grief.
         5 likes
      • marcus perry - February 3rd, 2015 at 10:33 pm none Comment author #245896 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        your confusing consensual sex and non consensual sex. if a prostitute male or female makes a choice to sell thier body for money. that is a consensual choice they gave.
        surprisingly your being sarcastic about how consensual sex can be twisted and it does happen in principle to how you said by a lawyer, lying victim, or even a government official that just wants to put someone away. i found that interesting. these things really do happen. im not going into that subject. its depressing. i could respond better if you would have express questions like laur did. she was clear and objective. dont reply to me if you dont plan on being that way. this is a 2 way discussion and im very interested in hearing your opinion believe it or not. you made great points which did make me think.
        you being a feminist has nothing to do with how i respond. i could care less if you are a feminist or not. that title holds no power over me.
           0 likes
      • marcus perry - February 3rd, 2015 at 10:37 pm none Comment author #245898 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        i forgot to say that the only situation in which a consentual choice is not valid is if the person is not of sound mind and body to take care of themselves. thats still very broad depending on how you spin it.
        ive seen people spin it before. it can be used too often.
           0 likes
    • Laur - February 1st, 2015 at 5:54 pm none Comment author #245355 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      Marcus,
      If no one wants to have sex with you b/c of whatever quality, why do you think a woman in prostitution would want to have sex with you? Oh yeah, I forgot. The money. Not desire, but the money.
      “of course. thier also heartless to an extent”
      Really? It’s “heartless” to think women should be able to live free from PTSD? Prostituted women suffer from PTSD at the same rate as war veterans.
      “you understand that women with these same disabilities can also call upon these services. should they be denied the right to express themselves in consensual sexual activities as well?? honestly i hope you agree cause if you dont then that is the route definition of a sexist thought. ”
      The point, Marcus, is what happens in reality. In reality women, disabled or otherwise, seldom purchase sexual services. In reality, disabled women are much more likely to be found selling sex than making the very real choice to buy sex. This is due to poverty, job discrimination, and previous sexual abuse, among other factors. Free choice, huh?
      “prostitution will never go away.”
      Murder will never go away. Let’s legalize it between “consenting adults.” You can also replace murder with war, incest, and so forth.
      “are disable men supposed to just roll under a rock and forget their desires to have sex.”
      Disabled men can stop complaining about their lot in life, realize everyone has obstacles they have to deal with, and due their best to live a fulfilling, meaningful life while not harming others. Many people, both men and women, want to have sex and don’t have an available partner.
      Your desire to fuck women does not come above women’s human right to be free from unwanted bodily intrusion. Also, most men who purchase sexual access to women’s bodies are not disabled. I’m tired of disabled men’s supposed “needs” being used as an argument for legalizing the purchase of sex for *all* men.
      Your questions and comments are incredibly entitled and really rather condescending. Also, they’re all answered elsewhere in the comment section, which you would have known, if you had bothered to read the comments to this thread before posting.
         7 likes
      • Morag - February 1st, 2015 at 6:16 pm none Comment author #245360 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        ‘Really? It’s “heartless” to think women should be able to live free from PTSD? Prostituted women suffer from PTSD at the same rate as war veterans.’
        Excellent point, Laur.
        Did you notice, too, his use of the phrase “regular women”? Not sure exactly what this means, but it must mean either “non-disabled” women or “non-prostituted” women. Either way, it seems that he’s saying that disabled men don’t have easy access to “regular women” and that this is Very Bad and Must Be Fixed. What a disgusting comment.
           7 likes
        • marcus perry - February 3rd, 2015 at 10:06 pm none Comment author #245890 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
          i replied to you in the overall comment. you didnt quite understand what i meant. regular women is more of a comparison to normal without disability. alot of disabled feel like aliens in society. not all thankfully but too many. thats all that was meant by that. not sure where you got what you interpreted.
             0 likes
      • marcus perry - February 3rd, 2015 at 10:17 pm none Comment author #245894 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
        i replied to you as well. i agreed with most of what you said. you did what i was hoping someone would do. you asked me why? and added your own opinion. i appreciate that.
        to answer your questions. yes ptsd hits us all in some form. its not a War veteran specific thing.
        yes some disabled to go into prostitution to pay bills. they are not who im talking about. that is more the subject of state health benefits for disabled and family freinds support for that individual. im talking about something different. thank you for bringing that up.
        im sorry but what you said about murder is true. to an extent its is legal. war is great example. goerge zimmerman. oh that pist me off. war and prostitution are 2 different things. i wasnt referring only to penetrative sex in prostitution. i was more gearing it to people who just want to feel the touch of a woman or a man. i do know a wheelchair friend who loves him some man. a lesbian too. great people to know. dont take the comment out of context. bring more question for this topic. i like trying to meet in the middle ground with others of varying topics. all of these topics have answers where both parties win.
        just have to sit down and talk about it like adults.
           0 likes
    • marcus perry - February 3rd, 2015 at 10:03 pm none Comment author #245886 on The notion that it’s ok for disabled men to pay for sex is rooted in misogyny and ableism by Feminist Current
      your all over analizing the post. so ill clarify. first off i want to clarify that i dont care if your a feminist or not. your a person in my eyes with an opinion. ill hear yours just as much as the person next to you. so dont paint me as someone who just hates feminist. that always gets on my nerves when people who dont agree with me assume i dont agree because we are not part of the same equal rights club. same goal. just move on from that negative state of mind. it will get you nowhere in a real debate.
      prostitution will never go away. its been around for centuries. prostitution is the exchange of cash or other good for services of whatever nature is needed. that does not have to mean sex. prostitutes in healthy circumstances do not do the job by force. they do if for the quick money. so while i agree with your disgust in doing sexual services for money. i would never pay for sex. its still consensual. i have a friend who is a prostitute and she has a client that is disabled. he cant have sex sex by our definition. he is a paraplegic. he calls upon her and she does a process with him that makes him feel good. no one touches him at all. his disability does not match well with regular dating. this is what i mean by your intention is good but in some cases its heartless in reality. you have to try to meet most peoples healthy desires and needs somewhere in the middle. you could have an accident tomorrow and be in the same situation. now yes there are people that are forced into bad situations. thats why if you legalize prostitution like holland and parts of vegas have done, then these situations wont happen. or will happen only under extreme conditions. you cant prevent these sometimes. thats why most places that do have this form of service have health benefits and services to help them out.
      ive done some information on this subject just for you who cant fathom how this would go. the bunny ranch is located very near vegas. the male does not choose the girl. he communicates his interest to the girl and she reciprocates prices and etc. security is ready to come help the girls. no one can guarantee these girls will not have ptsd of some kind. im a veteran so i should know about this subject pretty well. all you can do to prevent this is to make the work area safe as possible.
      your over analyzing what i mean by heartless too. my comment is not actually meant to target prostitution. my comment is more meant just to defend disabled men and women which most you forgot i was talking about as well. life is difficult so if your gonna get mad at me for defending the right to consensual sex. why have any rights if you want to pick and choose the ones people have??? that’s the same thing dictators have done for centuries. this is not even an attack on feminist. im sure you will take as such anyways.
      here is the bottom line that most of you misunderstood. if you make a area safe and able to satisfy customer desires than it can prevent ptsd from ever being a possible affect. if customers have a way to express thier desires then they can fill certain voids that occur in thier life. one of the voids that comes with a disability all too often is the lack of romance or communication with people around them. instead of doing without ,which one of you mentioned, why not facilitate a way that is legal and healthy for all parties? think about that before you jump on others so quickly.
         0 likes

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