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Riot Games : "LGBT players are welcome at official LoL tourneys" (self.leagueoflegends)

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[–]Dakboom 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (75子コメント)

Why....wouldn't they be allowed?

[–]HotSauceJohnson 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (74子コメント)

IMO it's reasonable to disallow transgenders to compete in a specifically female tournament. I'm sorry, but I don't think amputees should be able to compete in the regular Olympics with springs on their feet either.

Disallowing gay people is retarded though.

EDIT: People seem to think that this doesn't actually matter. It does though: males are on average faster than females in terms of reaction. That's just a fact. How you identify does not change your biology hence why I feel allowing transgender people to play in a specifically female-only event violates the competitive spirit.

http://www.colorado.edu/eeb/courses/1230jbasey/abstracts%202008/4.htm

[–]iamcaustic [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Do you even read your own source?

The null hypothesis was supported and rejected. One p-value was significant while the other wasn’t. [...]

[...] Some problems with this experiment could be the environment; it was distracting possibly skewing reaction times. More subjects should be used in order in increase the accuracy of the results. Also, other students could hear the question before hand, making their reaction times faster. These corrections would improve the accuracy and validity of the results. [...]

We compared two other studies to our experiment. [...]

[...] These studies both had sources of error, just as ours did, so the data may not be completely accurate.

TL;DR results are inconclusive, possible corruption of data due to external variables including environment, would need additional data to make a conclusion.

Stop trying to spout a false male > female narrative.

[–]Radgryd [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Thank you.

[–]Stormsoul22 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (49子コメント)

Not really, it isn't like they have an advantage to being transgendered in a freaking video game. If they really are transgendered, they seem a bit committed to the freaking gender.

[–]HotSauceJohnson -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (25子コメント)

It's not about how you identify it's about your sex. I would think if there were no advantage to be had we'd have at least one challenger ELO female who wasn't born male (Yuno) and as far as I know that's also the case in StarCraft.

[–]wasivis 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you honestly saying that because one study says that some men have better reaction than women, transgender people should not be publicly recognized as what they choose to be, but as what they were born? Yeah, I'm sure that works out for everyone.

[–]HotSauceJohnson 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you honestly saying that because one study says that some men have better reaction than women, transgender people should not be publicly recognized as what they choose to be, but as what they were born?

No, I'm saying that in a competition divided by sex it's disingenuous to place people based on identity instead of biology.

[–]Radgryd [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

This guy is clearly transphobic, don't pay any attention to him.

[–]CharlesAdam [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Disagree. Just pasting this link/source doesn't instantly make your point valid.

I don't think this "biological advantage" is relevant enough to exclude transgenders from a competition. The difference is tiny and not relevant at all.

Even if it IS relevant, League is much more than mere reaction times, it's also about keeping track of a LOT of things (flash, cd, buff timers, positioning, wards...). You can also say that females have advantages because I can google a source that says "females are better at multitasking" and it works both ways. If you take that as a fact it makes no difference anymore, does it ?

[–]HotSauceJohnson [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Multitasking doesn't make you better at League. The only thing you're physically doing is moving a mouse and pushing buttons. What's more the reward system favors the player who is faster on the draw, so to speak, over the player better at keeping track of timers or whatever.

Your point about multitasking is hardly worthwhile though; even if females were better at multitasking (and that is far from conclusive) it's of dubious benefit in any scenario and especially a game that requires quick reaction.

[–]rageofbaha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My opinion 100%

[–]Caoryn [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Sorry if you already answered this, but are you referring to pre-op tansgenders, post-op, or does it not matter?

[–]HotSauceJohnson [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Uh people with XY chromosome. Whatever that is.

[–]Radgryd [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Something something sex/gender something brain. "That's just a fact."

/stops reading

[–]XxXyolomasterXxX[XxXyolomasterXxX] (NA) -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'd agree with that in a physical sport but it's a video game where no sex has any advantage

[–]HotSauceJohnson -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (11子コメント)

where no sex has any advantage

I mean, if that were true you'd see a lot more high ELO women playing than you do now. Obviously it's not going to be many but it's telling that the only serious female player in League (that I know of) was born male. I don't know much about StarCraft but I believe the case is the same there.

[–]TylerBroski 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

For the record, you are correct. The only female who has been accepted as a top StarCraft 2 player is Scarlett, who was born male.

[–]MarvelShazam [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

So it's not a female? You can't just "change" your gender. And don't hit me up with this SJW bullshit, please.

[–]Ghostkill221 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's not exactly true. That's a result and youre correlating it to conjecture. but there's no reason behind the correlation.

There are far more male Truckers than women. But there aren't qualities that are required for trucking that men have and women do not. for the most part it's simply that men are far more accepted than women in that position.

Just because more nurses are women than men, doesn't mean that men are inherantly worse at the requirements of being a nurse.

Just because a higher percentage of women who go to college get degree's doesnt mean that women are inherantly smarter than men. There are many other factors. For one it's far more expected for men to go to college. meaning that men may not actually want to . it's just expected of them.

Whereas if a woman has already had to deal with a lot of pushback to her decision to attend college. it's unlikely that shed be willing to quit, after shes put a lot of her pride into it.

[–]HotSauceJohnson 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, obviously until there is a peer reviewed study all we're going to have is conjecture, but I have yet to hear a compelling reason why 5 years in and (a year ago) 67 million monthly players that not even a single female has breached the competitive scene.

The issue I have with you analogies is that we don't measure quality of those fields like we naturally do in a competitive sport. There is no "ranking" for top trucker, nurse, or college student. We do compare athletes though and we know what the top tier looks like there.

My guess is there are some of the same factors at work that just are not as obvious as those in traditional competition. Obviously all the usual caveats apply that this isn't scientific and correlation isn't causation but I still think it's a reasonable concern.

[–]TU_Vesthis 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's not really about males or females having advantages, it's just females don't play as much video games (or at least as much competitive) as males.

[–]HotSauceJohnson 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Right which is why I think allowing somebody who was born male, and has the chromosomes of a male to play in a female-only tournament is against the spirit of the competition.

[–]Ruroni 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You are agreeing but saying the opposite. TU_Vesthis is saying it's a evocative gene environment correlation, whereas you are saying it's a passive gene environment correlation. Both require the genes, but the one you reference is more attributed to having better reflexes or viso-spatial skills. TU_Vesthis is saying it's attributed to the fact that they were a guy that they selected an environment which lead them to practice more.

[–]HotSauceJohnson 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I understand that I just believe my argument to be more compelling because given the demographics of the player-base you should expect there to have been at least one professional female player by this point.

[–]Ruroni 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If it's anything like this data the playerbase is 90% male.

http://www.destructoid.com/league-of-legends-has-32-million-monthly-active-players-236618.phtml

[–]HotSauceJohnson 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That data is 2 years out of date for one. The other issue is that even if only 10% of the player-base is female you would still expect at least one to have come up high enough to achieve notability somewhere.

[–]MriTzii -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i think theres one female player whos challenger in euw, shafu iirc.. not sure shes actually female though