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[–]pigly_two -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Do they deny that Jews were murdered systematically?

[–]RedditRevisionist[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Many Jews were partisans, communists and political dissenters and were often executed, but the total executed was relatively few. There was no systematic plan/final solution for the murder of all Jews.

If you believe in the Nuremberg version that the Jews were systematically killed, then you'll have to believe in their crazy methods.

Just the first 10:

  1. Steam people to death like lobsters in 10 steam chambers at Treblinka

  2. Zap them to death with mass electrical shocks

  3. Blast them into the twilight zone with atomic bombs

  4. Beat people to death, then carry out autopsies to see why they died

  5. Force people to climb trees, then cut the trees down

  6. Kill 840,000 Russian POWs at Sachsenhausen, and burn the bodies in 4 portable ovens

  7. Bash people's brains in with a pedal-driven brain-bashing machine while listening to the radio, then burn the bodies in 4 portable ovens

  8. Torture and execute people in time to music at the Yanov camp in Russia -- shoot every member of the orchestra

  9. Grind the bones of millions of people in portable bone-grinding machines

  10. Grind the bones of 200 bodies [¾ ton] at one time as described in photographs and documents which have disappeared -- study bone grinding in special 10-day crash-course seminars

[–]cyclops1771 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Where did the term "Final Solution" come into play? Was this not Himmler's plan (die Endlösung der Judenfrage)?

[–]drekk16 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The original Final Solution was proposed by an American jew prior to WW2. GERMANY MUST PERISH is the prime example of the anti-German sentiment that was being propagated in the United States before World War II. The author was a member of the American Jewish Congress. To keep a long story short, every thing said against the Germans here was said by Hitler against the Jews--believing they are a "master race," trying to take over the world, being barbarous and anti-christian, engaging in cospiracies to start wars, etc... The author calls for the mass sterilization of all German men under the age of sixty and all the women under the age of forty five in revenge for Germany starting wars throughout its history. -"A sensational idea!" by Times Magazine -"A Provocotave theory--interestingly presented" by Washington Post -"A plan for permanent peace among civilized nations!" by New York Times -"Frankly presents the dread backround of the Nazi soul" by Philadelphia Record A map at the back shows German and Austrian territory given to its neighbors Holland, France, "Czechia," Denmark, Poland and Belgium. This was released in February 1941 in the United States, before US involvement in WWII. This was before reports of the Holocaust in Europe.

[–]tusko01 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

GERMANY MUST PERISH

Was written in 1941, well after Germany had made its violent, anti-semitic nature clear.

One could of course, look to many of the German Published propaganda magazines published in the early 1930s for the same sort of vitriol and hatred.

Moreover, i'm not really sure how the publication of one book compares to the words and actions of an entire political party.

every thing said against the Germans here was said by Hitler against the Jews--believing they are a "master race,

Germany Must Perish was published in 1941.

The author calls for the mass sterilization of all German men under the age of sixty and all the women under the age of forty five in revenge for Germany starting wars throughout its history

In 1932, Der Sturmer claimed jews were murderous devils who favoured infanticide and cannibalism, and readily incited violence against them.

[–]AHdidnothingwrong [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Oh I remember you! /u/TTrns destroyed you in the last revisionism thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ugrk6/auschwitz_the_missing_cyanide/

[–]tusko01 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

So do you have anything relevant to add?

Oh no, you're just going to post a link to another thread you didn't contribute in.

[–]RedditRevisionist[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

http://www.whale.to/b/weber7.html#The_Final_Solution_

This explains the revisionist position on the 'final solution' well.

At the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with this policy. But not a single document has ever been found which even refers to an extermination program. To the contrary, the German documents show that the "final solution" meant removing the Jews from Europe -- by emigration if possible and by deportation if necessary. Later, during cross-examination, I agreed with the Crown attorney that the "final solution" was a euphemism, although not for extermination. But after I had a chance to consult a dictionary, I said that I had spoken too hastily, and that the term was not a euphemism because the term "final solution" was actually harsher-sounding than the policy it described. It would be more accurate to describe the term as a label or description, I said.

I emphasized that the German "final solution" policy is clearly explained in three important German documents, which I quoted. The first is the letter from Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring to SS security chief Reinhard Heydrich of July 31, 1941, which orders measures for "the intended final solution of the Jewish question." As I pointed out, the document specifically confirms that the German policy was "to solve the Jewish question by emigration and evacuation."

The second document is the so-called "Wannsee Protocol" a record of the "Wannsee conference" of January 20, 1942, in Berlin. (Nuremberg document NG-2586-G) The document, which contains nothing about extermination, explains the policy of deporting Jews to the occupied Soviet territories in the East. "The emigration program has now been replaced by the evacuation of the Jews to the East as a further solution possibility, in accordance with previous authorization by the Führer," it notes. The document refers to the eventual "freeing" or "liberation" of the Jews ("bei Freilassung" in German), which implicitly confirms the intention of the German government to free the Jews after the war. Interestingly, these words were deleted from the English-language translation published in the official "green series" record of Nuremberg documents issued by the U;S. government (NMT "green series," vol. 13, p. 213) The "Wannsee Protocol" also states that elderly German Jews and Jews who had served honorably during the First World War would not be deported to the East, but would instead be housed in the special Theresienstadt ghetto in Bohemia.

I pointed out that the real nature of the "final solution" policy was also confirmed by Heydrich in a speech to German officials in Prague two weeks after the Wannsee conference (which he chaired), and by his widow, Lina Heydrich, in her memoir. Heydrich explained that the German policy was to deport the Jews of Europe to the Soviet territories. Furthermore, I added, every one of the officials who participated in the conference and survived the war (with the exception of Adolf Eichmann in Israeli custody) later testified that the conference had nothing to do with a policy of extermination. I mentioned that even the prominent West German historians Martin Broszat and Hans Mommsen had come to the conclusion in recent years that the conference did not involve an extermination policy.

Finally, the German Foreign Office memorandum of August 21, 1942, explains Germany's wartime policy towards the Jews in clear and unmistakable language. (Nuremberg document NG2586-J.) It was written by Martin Luther, who represented the German Foreign Office at the Wannsee conference. I quoted from it at some length: "The present war gives Germany the opportunity and also the duty of solving the Jewish problem in Europe," it notes, and refers specifically to the "territorial final solution." The policy "to promote the evacuation of the Jews [from Europe] in closest cooperation with the agencies of the ReichsFührer SS [Himmler] is still in force." The memo mentions that, unfortunately, "the number of Jews deported in this way to the East did not suffice to cover the labor needs."

The document quotes German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop as saying that "at the end of this war, all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was an unalterable decision of the Führer [Hitler] and also the only way to master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be applied and individual measures would not help very much." This internal memorandum concludes by saying that the "deportations [of the Jews to the East] are a further step on the way of the total solution ... The deportation to the [Polish] General Government is a temporary measure. The Jews will be moved on further to the occupied [Soviet] eastern territories as soon as the technical conditions for it are given." I made clear to the court that when those who uphold the Holocaust extermination story are confronted with documents like this, they interpret them to suit what I called "their preconceived notion" and "try to make the evidence fit."

[–]NGC_224 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should read "Ordinary Men" by Christopher Browning. It's a scholarly monograph on the systematic murder and deportation of thousands upon thousands of Eastern European Jews by Police battalions, and the documentation is overwhelming.

[–]ZergPan -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Too bad the Posen speech invalidates all of this. (Except for the evacuation, that was before 1941. It was changed secretly during 1941 but was never told to anyone who didn't need to know.)

[–]RedditRevisionist[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Some points on Posen:

  • This alleged speech, as German judge Staeglich has adroitly pointed out, is a hodgepodge of non-sequitors, nonsense, and re-worked text. see: http://codoh.com/library/document/230

  • There are missing pages, retyped pages by different hands, even repaginated.

  • Then we have a so called "secret" speech in front of thousands. Frankly the assertions about it are laughable.

  • Yivo (Yiddish Scientific Institute) of New York was very active in the Rosenberg Ministry to process documents for submittal to the Nuremberg trials.

  • members of the audience like SS-OGruF Gottlob Berger denied that Himmler was talking about the extermination of the Jews at all.

  • Also questionable is the alleged tape recording of the speech. To have a speech with such alleged secret content recorded on tape? Right. SS General Berger did not recognize Himmler’s voice listening to the tape.

  • In 1993, Robert Wolfe, supervisory archivist for captured German records at the National Archives admitted that a more precise translation of 'ausrottung' would be extirpation or tearing up by the roots. Wolfe also pointed out that in Himmler's handwritten notes for the speech, that Himmler used the term, 'judenevakuierung', or evacuation of the Jews, not 'extermination'.

  • the complete lack of physical evidence to support the false assertions

  • the complete lack of orders for the assumptions being made

Like so much else about this so called holohoax, the Posen speech when scrutinized doesn't hold up.

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=372

[–]ZergPan -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So, the speech is fake?

So when he says "exterminate" it doesn't mean exterminate?

So its not his voice even though it just sounds a little deeper with worse quality?

So Berger who was a close friend of Himmler wouldn't sell him out?

So it was an evacuation that that wouldn't be reported because the public didn't need to know that involved thousands of dead people and soldiers who get sick when forced to carry out this treatment?

It's easy to discount evidence when you just call it fake based on pages that don't look like the original, even thought Himmler's handwritten note for it exist. When you discount the credibility because one of Himmler's friends says he doesn't recognize the voice because he might get in trouble?

Easy to discount the lack of documentation when the speech tells you there will be no documentation of the acts.

Easy to discount physical evidence when it was all destroyed. Unless you count guns.

[–]RedditRevisionist[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm just saying that your 'evidence' is poor. An alleged speech with an assumed interpretation is not good evidence.

[–]LeTransperceneige -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No systematic solution ? 90% of the German Jews got killed.

[–]I_am_not_a_Raccoon -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your feeding the trolls.

[–]pigly_two 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those are pretty specific targets. How many Jewish partisans, Communists and political dissenters were executed?

[–]Pvt_Hudson_ -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you're saying the Jews that were executed by the Nazi's all deserved what they got?

Correct me if I'm reading your comment wrong.