What Taking My Daughter to a Comic Book Store Taught Me
I like to think that I’m a pretty decent human being.
Don’t think I didn’t hear that snort of derision…lighten up – I didn’t say “perfect”, I just said “pretty decent”.
I think I’m fairly socially conscious. I’m morally aware of what’s going on in the world around me. I help those who need assistance. My social circle’s about as diverse as you can possibly get without being a caricature from a children’s story about tolerance and acceptance.
And yet, to all of the women that I know, especially those in the tech scene, I kinda feel like I owe you an apology…because it wasn’t until I took my seven year old daughter to a comic book store this weekend that the universe slapped me upside the head and brought a really serious issue into focus for me…
I mean, I thought I understood it before.
But I really didn’t understand it before.
See, I’ve talked with plenty of people and kept up on the news. I have friends who are women in the technology field. We’ve had plenty of female guests on our show. I know some incredibly successful women in their chosen careers. But as it turns out, even though I thought I had a grasp on how crappy women can have it in the geek world, it turns out that, at best, I had a superficial understanding.
And that’s really hard for me to wrap my head around, because I hate not understanding things.
She’s seven. She may talk like she’s twenty-seven at times, but…she’s seven. She has her whole life ahead of her. An endless world of possibilities. She can be anything she wants to be…
…or is everything that I believe, and that I’ve been telling her, just so much crap and utter nonsense because that’s not really how things work?
The trip was completely their idea, believe it or not. They had seen a commercial for Big Bang Theory with the cast in a comic book store, asked about the concept, and demanded that I take them to one. So I did, and when we first got to the store, both kids (my son’s five) were in awe. I had to keep them from running around the place and picking everything up. I had to keep reminding them to stay by me, and to please walk and use their manners. The action figures, the collectible models…the very newness of it all…had them completely overwhelmed. As they found their way to the racks, they lost their minds. There were hundreds and hundreds of comics staring them in the face, and they wanted them all. I agreed that I’d buy them a few (have to encourage the next generation after all, right? Right.) and so go ahead and take a look around…but look, don’t touch, and behave.
My son had no problems whatsoever. Superman. Batman. Wolverine. The Flash. The other Batman. That third Batman. Still yet another Batman. Holy hell, why are there like nineteen different Batman comic series all out at once these days? And wait…it’s not just Batman…there’s five different Superman series, three Wolverine comics, and…
“Breathe,” I had to tell him. “No, we’re not buying all of them…but pick out, oh, three each that you want and we’ll get those.”
He was set. He went to staring at the covers of the different books and figuring out which ones he wanted.
“What’s up, kiddo?” I asked.
“Dad…where are the real comics?”
“These are the comics, honey. What do you mean ‘real’ ones? What are you looking for?”
“Dad,” she said as she rolled her eyes at me (I mentioned that she acts like she’s twenty seven sometimes, yes? I could tell this was about to be one of those times) and said “these can’t be the real comics. That’s not Harley Quinn. That’s not Wonder Woman. That’s not…where are the real ones?”
I had no clue what she was talking about.
“Hon…these are the real comics. What do you mean?”
“All their…” …and her voice dropped to a whisper… “boobies are hanging out, Dad. These can’t be for kids, and comic books are for kids, and kids aren’t supposed to see that. That Wonder Woman looks like she’s in a video, and I don’t know who that is, but it’s not Harley Quinn. Harley Quinn wears clothes.”
Hello Kitty and Monster High.
That’s what the man who runs a comic book store with a seven year old daughter had to offer…Hello Kitty…and Monster High. Literally thousands of comics lining the shelves…and Hello Kitty…and Monster High.
Then, as I started having a conversation with my daughter about the whole thing, I realized I was in a no-win situation…even if her eyes did light up a bit at the Monster High comic.
I can’t be casually dismissive of the whole thing, because then I’m basically saying that if a woman’s attractive, then she clearly can’t be a superhero. And I know plenty of successful, attractive women…all of whom would kick my ass if it got out that that’s what I was teaching my daughter.
And then there’s the fact that she’s seven. Seven. I’m not really ready to sit down and have the talk with her about how it’s okay to be sexy, but that you shouldn’t let it completely define who you are. Because, again, she’s seven. She doesn’t need to know what “sexy” is. She doesn’t have the emotional capacity yet to grasp the differences between inner and outer personas. It’s not within her realm of understanding yet to get why teenage boys (and, yes, some older ones too) are drawn to those covers with women drawn like sine waves with heavy curves, tiny waists, and doll-like faces.
As we finished up our shopping trip (she found some that were “I guess these are okay”) and made our way back home, I couldn’t turn my brain off about the whole thing. I just couldn’t. What I thought was going to be an enjoyable, pleasant experience turned into a crisis of conscience and a re-examination of damn near every interaction that I’ve had, every story that I’ve read, all of the anecdotal stories that I’ve been told…
I get it – I didn’t get it.
And I certainly didn’t take it seriously enough.
But I get it now…well, no, I won’t be That Guy who says he gets something he can never really truly understand fully…but I can say I at least get it more than I did before this weekend.
My daughter’s also too young to really understand why I thanked her for the conversation she had with me, and why I was so thoughtful and pensive every time I looked at her for the rest of the weekend. She kept asking me if something was wrong, and I kept saying “Oh no honey…daddy’s just thinking about stuff”, and she’s used to that happening so she accepted it…
Still haven’t been able to turn my brain off, though.
That’s enough heavy thinking for one post. Go read something else while I keep pondering: http://www.itinthed.com/read/
Hey!
So I’m a novice comic/graphic novel consumer, but I have a couple suggestions that your daughter may enjoy!
I really like Lumberjanes. It’s one of my favorites out right now! Squirrel Girl JUST came out and it’s pretty great. Now, I don’t read a ton that are kid-appropriate other than those, but I have read a sample of Mouseguard, which wasn’t for me, but really just because I’m not a fan of the art style.
This link is a little old, but I know a few are probably still running : http://geekgirlcon.com/10-great-comic-books-for-kids-under-12/
But, really, your comic provider is letting you down. There’s a lot more out there besides Monster High, MLP, or Hello Kitty. Find a better shop!
Yea, I know it’s not the point of your post, but your comic shop was off their game. Tiny Titans collections, Aw Yeah Comics titles, Superman Family Adventures collected, Lumberjanes, My Little Pony, Miss Marvel – my girls get a dozen or so titles every month. As a lifelong comic fan I’ve stopped reading D.C. Because of the same issues your daughter raised, but there are artists she can support. Trying to find a female friendly comic shop is a real process and one that offers up only HK and MH isn’t a female friendly place.
Seeing you support her quest to be seen as a person, having you make the effort to find her appropriate books, discussing how skewed representation can be – all of these will help her have a more positive self image. Don’t tell her the books are for older kids, tell her they’re pretty messed up. Agree with her instincts and she’ll always know you’ve got her back.
Hi Dave. This was a great and insightful comic and like yourself I’ve been struggling with finding better books for my Niece and Nephew as they are getting into comics as well as my wife who is really interested in more Mature and Complicated comics outside of Spandex and Superheroes.
For your Daughter I would recommend the following books:
Ms. Marvel – Marvel – First Volume is already out.
Lumberjanes – 9 issues out but REALLY REALLY GOOD
Adventure Time – Much like the cartoon but in comic form the writers can do a lot more with the characters and give Marceline, Princess Bubblegum, and others a lot more center stage time.
Squirrel Girl – Marvel – Written by the same writer as Adventure time and very very body positive and fun.
Gotham Academy – DC – Harry Potter-esque school Hijinks in Gotham.
Lil’ Gotham – Kid appropriate Batman and Company adventures. Harley’s representation in that book is great.
Princess Ugg – Barbarian Princess wants to go to college but finds herself at a Princess Prep school with
Disney Stereotypes. Great story about not fitting in, being true to yourself, and never assuming things about others.
Molly Danger – a kickstarted comic on sale via Amazon about a young female hero.
All these are great books with positive images for young girls that don’t pander to them either. They are written with Empathy and understanding rather than based off marketing data.
Also if your Local Comic Shop is not the best place for your or your kids anymore, find a new one. I have had to hunt for one that was interested in special ordering books for me and would make recommendations based off past purchases. Also the environment is family friendly and customer friendly. I’ve been with them now for close to 10 years. So hunt around and find a place that makes Comic Book Day a fun event for everyone.
Thanks for that, I really appreciate the insight and perspective.
Altough I disagree fundamentally with two things:
1. Comics are for kids.
As you skillfully pointed out, they’re not. Not with the sexualisation that is at work. Comics are not children stuff, at least not exclusively. And I think that’s a part of the problem, we tend to group all comics as one unified “thing” for a certain group. Which is not true.
2. A seven years old girl does need to know what sexy is.
Now, I apologise for approaching such a delicate matter and I’m fully aware that it is none of my business to tell anybody how to raise their kids. That said, it is my opinion that there is no such thing as “too young” to be informed about sex. It is not only natural, but omnipresent in the “information era”. Kids know and are curious about sex and we all know it, however uncomfortable that makes us regarding our own children. I don’t see how informing and educating can’t lead to a healthier relation with intimacy when the right time come. Especially for girls, wich seem to be frequently under informed about how to have a good relationship with this “part” of their lives. Probably due to how incredly incomfortable we are to teach about intimacy, we prefer pretend that it doesn’t exist, because by doing so with think we are protecting our daughters, but it is my opinion that sexuality exist in all of us, from the start. It is by this logic, a great disservice to anyone to deny information that would help them understand themselves, what they will become and what is so present in the society that they will live in.
These must be not easy to find in US but I would surely recommend them to any kid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica%27s_Gang
Here is my recommendation for kids, especially your daughter: http://www.cdowd.com/lilithdark/
The creator made it because his daughter (8 at the time) did and said the same thing. Couldn’t find anything for her in the comic store. So he made one.
Yup, you get it now, the women in your workplace and social circle are whining like 7-year-old girls.
Wow. I hope that’s sarcasm…
You should take your children to Vault of Midnight in Ann Arbor. It’s a great family-owned shop with lots of all ages and girl-friendly comics, and the staff has been very enthusiastic about helping me find books for my daughter.
Dave — what a great post. Thank you for getting it. I really like the alternate suggestions others have made above, but at the same time, it doesn’t excuse the fact that the comics she wanted just did not exist. Period. An all-ages Wonder Woman? A Harley Quinn that fans of the animated series would love? Why are these things so hard to produce, guys?
I also hope that the main lesson you took away from this sad adventure was just how uncomfortable she felt standing in that store, surrounded by hyper-sexualized versions of characters she loves. For many women, that feeling of discomfort never goes away. Not at 8 or 10 or 22 or 40. We just learn to deal with the fact that it exists. This is the world female comics fans live in.
You might hit up the local library, see what they have for new, young comic book readers. You’ll probably find more graphic novels, but they may have actual comic books, too.
I think Justice League Unlimited (the TV show) is also available as a comic series.
If you do go for graphic novels, I’d recommend looking at:
-Zita the Spacegirl by Ben Hatke
and
-Cleopatra in Space by Mike Maihack
You’ll note that neither of these is written by women. I assume, though, these guys are probably also dads trying to tackle the very problem you’ve encountered.
You might try manga, as well. There are many titles aimed at the younger age groups. Chi’s Sweet Home comes to mind but there are others, ones that don’t have the panty shots and over-breasted teenage girls.
Good luck and good job trying to help your daughter through this instead of sweeping it all under a rug.
While you’re looking for a new comic book store, may I suggest wandering through the dizzying expanse of webcomics?
“Strong Female Protagonist” strongfemaleprotagonist.com is written by Brennan Lee Mulligan and drawn by Molly Ostertag. There are realistic-looking women as well as interesting questions about the responsibility of power.
I see many sides. But I think the solution is without a doubt to have comics anbd boys and girls who are young that have age appropriate content and is not insulting. Theb “young girls, tweens” comics needs to be better than Hello Kitty and Monsters High. Oh, those have to be there because some kids will like them, but there needs to be more…just as Batman, Superman, and Wolverine need to be marketed to girls too. “I DO NOT MEAN CHANGED…I mean marketed…I mean we have to tell girls and tween girls that liking soem Superman is great.
I also see that it okay to be sexy, but maybe there needs to be a less sexy comic of Power Girl, Wonder Woman, and Harley Quinn….just one not asking for much all the adult ‘boob window’ Power Girl comics and Wonder Woman in a corset can stay…we just need to add a somewhat less sexy comic too. But make no mistake much of what is being non-sexy is actions, speech and demeanor, and what is sexy is very much actions, speech and demeanor too.
I also see that we need to get over nudity being bad or good. Some people will disagree, I woudl welcome that, but our fear of non-sexulaized appearence of nudity is troublesome in my opinion. Modesty is not about how much you clothing covers you. Modesty is how you comport yourself in public. You can be ‘modestly naked’ and you can be ‘modestly covered’ from head to toe. Your actions, your demeanor, and your speech is what is, or is not, modest. A Hijab is no more modest than a hair band. A chādor is no more modest than a bikini. Oh we should argue about that like civilized adults, but I doubt you will never convince me that modesty is dress and not actions – never. You can be immodest in a bikini and you can be immodest in a chādor because your actions, speech and demeanor are what matters in the question. SO I say the discussion about what Wonder Woman wears can be discussed with a child who has become aware that what she or what Catwoman wears has cultural baggage to some people.
My daughter is nine now and has been obsessed with comics since she was five. She has no interest in the “girl” comics like Hello Kitty or MLP. She wants badass superheroes. She was Rocket Racoon for Halloween and had no qualms explaining who she was in detail to all of the confused Brits around her that day.
But I hardly ever take her to comic stores because of the same experience. She knows about sex but she finds it gross, as is entirely natural for her age. Pushing her towards sex and sexuality is likely to harm her, not educate her (as some of your other commenters want you to do). She looks at T&A in comics as stupid, inefficient costuming/armour, because it is.
I finally let her try to comic book here in Cambridge in November and she bought one of their old packs for £2 because she could see that it had a Rocket Racoon on one side and something else she dug on the other side. But only when we got home could we see what the one in the middle was: a really skeevy Harley Quinn that I had to put away as surely as I’d have taken away an old-school Playboy mag. Not because sexuality is bad, but because she doesn’t want it and it sends a lot of inappropriate messages about female objectification and body image.
I’ve been letting her go through my stash of X-Men and Wolverine movies with me because as much as comic purists whinge that they’re not faithful enough, they’re _better_ in that they at least portray women as having room in their waists for functioning organs and intact spines.
And of course she loved Guardians of the Galaxy…especially the part where Peter gets a punch instead of a kiss. OMG she _cheered_.
It’s just too hard for me as a busy parent with a toddler to care for as well to pre-read every comic to see if it’s gross or not before letting my daughter have it. So my solution is we just don’t buy them unless it’s a trusted line like Lilith Dark (http://www.cdowd.com/lilithdark/), because I’ve become G+ pals with its author and I know he created that after having the same experience as you taking his own daughter to a comic store.
At least there’s an upsurge in more women-friendly comics lately, although they’re still often not kid-friendly.
It sucks.
Oh and let’s not even get into how I can’t take her to a con because OMFG the behaviour is so disgusting and I’d like to wait a few years before she understands that she’s prey.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Belgian Yoko Tsuno Comics when I was a girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoko_Tsuno
She’s incredibly cool, can do martial arts, repair stuff, flies to outer space, makes friends with aliens, defeats bad guys… No traditional super heroine. But super cool.
I just checked: You can order them at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=yoko+tsuno
I won’t go so far as to say it was a mistake, but I think for girls, young women, and women, the best place to go for comics isn’t a store–it’s the internet. There are SO MANY indie comics out there filling the void for this demographic that the big publishing companies are not. For more popular ones, maybe look into Kazu Kibuishi’s Amulet series? Ursula Vernon’s Digger? There’s finally starting to be a market for teen/adult women, but outside of manga, you’re not going to find much appropriate for a young girl. Best stories would probably be by Gail Simone, though some of those are also very adult still.
Sincerely, lady webcomic creator who can’t find a thing she wants to read in comic book stores. Well, other than Saga. Not very kid friendly though.