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Hosty cheating thread deleted? (self.hearthstone)

Vickmun が 投稿

Can the mods explain why the thread detailing Hosty's ghosting was deleted?

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[–]chuysc2 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Here you go! http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2u4d4r/hosty_cheating_vs_lifecoach_pinnacle_2/

[–]InnerSpike 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Permalink for those wanting to see his reply

[–]NickVids1313 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Damn, even admits to having the stream open on his second monitor. Doesn't look good for him.

[–]egoplant 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If he just admitted it I think most people would forgive him to some degree, but the fact that he tried to cover it up, twice, and then deleted the second post because people posted evidence that contradicted it, just makes it really difficult for anyone to restore their image of him.

[–]riversun 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"most people will forgive him"

what a joke. why should he be EXCUSED FOR CHEATING because he admits it? HE STILL CHEATED LIKE A SCRUBLORD.

[–]egoplant 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for editing out "to some degree". But my point was that he just dug himself a deeper hole by trying to cover it up.

[–]ploki122 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reynad tried that in Magic... it didn't go well.

[–]phosphorus29 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did he cheat?

[–]lie4karma 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dont understand the issue here.. HE ADMITTED to watching the stream. 10 mins is short enough that Lifecoach could still have cards from the initial mulligan. For example. Player 1 mulligans and gets deathwing. 10 mins later player 2 sees that a deathwing was drawn and not played.... clearly you play around deathwing.

[–]lololert 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

upvoted, so can this go to the top. Mods trying to cover up for cheaters? Streisand effect incoming

[–]Knamloci 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I watched his stream once and I'm pretty biased against him because he seemed very arrogant, but since he finished dead last in the tournament I don't think anyone can accuse him of cheating, maybe just trying to cheat.

[–]egoplant 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just because he did badly in the tournament doesn't mean it doesn't count as cheating.

[–]helpmed3 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (3子コメント)

in b4 this thread gets deleted

[–]Sleelan 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Someone take screenshots of this, just in case.

[–]BurntJoint 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://web.archive.org/web/20150130000426/http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2u4xzy/hosty_cheating_thread_deleted/

Now its on the internet... Forever!

[–]Sleelan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What goes on the Internet, stays on the Internet.

[–]hx9 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Surely the mods understand that witch-hunting is intended to protect people from revenge posts based on individual experiences, not big events. Otherwise, this general Reddit rule would put a ton of subs completely out of business.

The fact that there is possible cheating in a major tournament warrants discussion not only about the possible cheating itself, but about the ways the possibilities of it can be avoided.

[–]Okichah 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if its not cheating its totally inappropriate behavior.

[–]Kwoku 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a very good question.

[–]grimjoi 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Regardless if Hosty was or wasn't cheating, I really do think that a 10-minute delay is pretty dumb for tournaments.

It is fundamentally stupid to put people in a reasonable time-frame to cheat. Many people --not all-- but many will apply an edge if they feel that they can get away with it. It's human behavior.

It's especially dumb considering the whole DDoS'ing that has been going on.

[–]_Fry 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Worth considering that the longer the delay, the more difficult it is to keep the schedule flowing with live (or as close to live as possible) games.

It probably is a bit naive, possibly they kind of trust in an element of sportsmanship since a lot of people behind tournaments tend to know most or all of the participants and believe they wouldn't stoop that low.

[–]InnerSpike 109 ポイント110 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Most likely under the guise of "witch hunting." The rule used to censor any thread that can even remotely be called "drama."

[–]NickVids1313 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (13子コメント)

It is not witch hunting. There is proof, there is no doxxing or pesonal information or attacks. All that the thread was was screenshots and facts. Mods had no reason to delete that thread.

[–]InnerSpike 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is not witch hunting

My point is it depends on who you ask what witch hunting is. Some mods censor threads simply because they see any drama or arguments on Reddit as inciting personal attacks

[–]ploki122 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It depends, while the OP was not witch hunting, nor the few top posts, the thread overall, and especially the replies to his comment(s), were rather terrible honestly. Sure, there could be better ways to deal with it than that, but it's the short term solution that they took.

One other reason they could've removed it is to give time for Amaz to make a statement and just remove all posts for now since everyone is aware and the posts were rather numerous.

[–]Notsomebeans 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it would quickly turn into one

hearthstone mods don't want the sub to have the classic videogame sub staple "hatemob of the week"

[–]Huldir 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not this one: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/28b2by/someone_just_wrote_to_rdu_what_cards_amaz_has/

[–]Yanrogue 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Either the mods are being overly cautious or they just don't want to deal with any drama.

[–]lie4karma 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it witch hunting when he admitted to doing it?

[–]turbojeebus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do they know nothing about the Streisand effect?

[–]PixelPenguins 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Streisand Effect incoming.

[–]FrodaN 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Nah, this was already gravitating towards RDU hi mom level of proportions considering the amount of traffic, comments, and upvotes it got in under 2 hours.

[–]riversun 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The thing about "hi mom" is that it's mostly an ongoing joke. RDU didn't actually cheat, just some douche on his friendlist.

Hosty? Total cheat.

[–]FrodaN 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's still a gray area.

Players often pull up streams to scout other opponents in their group/bracket for future matches. Not to mention they LOVE seeing the reactions (both from casters/chat) when a big play happens. It not unlikely when Hosty's tells the truth when he claims he left the stream idle and didn't think twice of it.

The difference in scenarios is that while RDU did end up breaking the rules, it was out of his control.

[–]throwaway070690 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This was a classic hearthstone topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/22kv52/chakki_should_be_penalized_for_his_overthetop_bm/

Another classic was: http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/258eu5/pvplives_tavern_takeover_trumps_take/

This subreddit is so dumb and hilarious with this stuff.

[–]phosphorus29 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can you expand on the RDU hi mom moment?

[–]steverubak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's a link to a reddit thread about the event. Basically the TL;DR is that in the finals of Dreamhack Bucharest against Amaz, RDU got a message (Hi mom!) from someone on his friends list. There was a ton of speculation that it was a tip off that Amaz had drawn a certain card (Leeroy iirc), and people accused him of cheating. RDU won the series and it prompted a lot of drama.

[–]FrodaN -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/28b2by/someone_just_wrote_to_rdu_what_cards_amaz_has/

[–]Weirdgus 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (13子コメント)

How was it witch-hunting when it was true and it provided actual evidence? When does anti witch-hunting become a good excuse for censorship?

[–]PsYcHoSeAn 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mods are handling those situations rather poorly I have to say. Not that i'm too stoked on grabbing a pitchfork or anything but there should be a thread where people can discuss the actual topic and maybe even give the ppl involved a chance to make a statement about it.

You can delete every post that crosses the line of what's acceptable but you shouldn't try to silence everyone when this is a rather controverse topic that really sparked the interest of a lot of people.

[–]YoloSwag2k12 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Couple of screenshots in case they haven't already been posted of timestamps where the cheating can be reviewed in the Twitch VOD (unless that also gets deleted), as well as Hostys response.

Timestamps of the VOD

Hostys original response

The 'deleted' comment from the picture above was from Hosty and here it is.

I don't think pictures are as good as watching the video but here are some zoomed images of the stream. Credit goes to /u/PJAllowishus. Link.

[–]I_LIKE_YOU_ 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The original comment he had actually said he had the stream on idle

[–]YoloSwag2k12 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, I'll add that in. I thought the second screenshot had both comments but apparently not.

[–]quasarc 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hosty's original reply (can still be seen at /u/ihosty):

How can anybody think I was stream sniping, I was idling the channel. Not only did I not watch / listen to the stream, the tournament is run on a huge delay which PREVENTS this from even being a possibility. If I had any ill intent to try and stream snipe, ( which isn't possible ) I would have just logged out of my account, it's not complicated.

[–]Sleelan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Comments seem to be alive for now, but the main post is removed. Inb4 this gets purged, someone keep track on links/screenshot this, just in case

Edit: all hail our machine overloads, the FrontpageWatchMirror made a copy of the original post before deleting it.

[–]Vodmeister 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Screenshots from the other thread;

http://i.imgur.com/lKdvW8m.png http://imgur.com/a/ElBir http://imgur.com/HhNHj5v http://imgur.com/b1M9f7C

[–]Quirino_Exile 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Good" job deleting the thread, Streisand effect incoming.

[–]TheMollyWop 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

G H O S T Y

[–]PJAllowishus 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reposting my comment from the deleted thread as a couple of people have asked me about it.

Here are some timestamps from the Twitch stream so you can follow along. You should do this so you can make your own decision - the screenshots I captured are not 100% conclusive.

2:28:51 - Mulligan for Game 1 of Hosty v Lifecoach
2:29:36 - Game 1 starts and the coin appears.

2:39:08 - Reflection changes, probably going from title screen to mulligan screen. This would be a 10min17sec delay. The title screen has a dark vertical line in the middle, which matches up with the woman used in the Pinnacle title screen. 2:39:53 - You can clearly see the coin from start of game. Note you are looking at a reflection, so the coin is on the opposite side. Matches up with a 10min17sec delay.

Here's an album of screenshots. The screenshots aren't evidence - it's impossible to know exactly what is going on from a static image. But if you watch the video at those times, you can see the cards move in from the side during a mulligan, or the coin appearing.

Picture 1: Title screen
Picture 2: Mulligan screen. This timestamp is when the stream he watching goes from the pre-game to mulligan.
Picture 3: End of mulligan.
Picture 4: Coin appearing.

[–]-Kimochi- 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (3子コメント)

because calling out a cheater is witch hunting on /r/hearthstone. Mods at their finest! Keep up the great work and continue cover cheater.

[–]subsubquery -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Its fine to speculate I think. r/hearthstone is a community that revolves around the game, the professional scenes and all sorts of associated rumors about the upcoming game and people. I think censorship on the other hand is a violation of people's right of free speech by the mod that removed it.

[–]BurntJoint 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Free speech doesn't exist on Reddit.

[–]WeHelpTheHelpless 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a violation of free speech for reddit mods to delete posts on reddit.

It might be morally wrong, but it's not a violation of your rights unless it's the government doing it.

[–]Kailizard24 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That censorship though.

[–]alleks88 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

To be honest, do you guys really think that other players are not doing that?
I am not defending it in any way, but I guess he is not the only one who does this.

[–]stopcrz 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In less acknowledged tournaments than this one I'd say cheating is fairly common in different forms. At this level of play it's still very unacceptable even if it favors you very little.

[–]chobochocobo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm willing to bet people do this all the time.

*not defending the action, but the one time we see a reflection of someone's screen, he's ghosting. Kind of makes you wonder..

[–]iiEviNii 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah but he's the only one stupid enough to get caught. Can't prove it for the others.

[–]steverubak 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This was the first thing I thought, I'm sure loads of players do this, they just don't get exposed like this. It's using any advantage you can get to win. It's certainly a shitty thing to do and this shouldn't go overlooked, but with cash prizes I'm sure he's not the first.

[–]Noivis[🍰] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2u4d4r/hosty_cheating_vs_lifecoach_pinnacle_2/

It seems to still be there

Honestly I'm a bit confused, you can still access the thread and comment on it, but it appears to be gone from the frontpage? Guess I'm not as reddit-savvy, but the thread should still be here when you read this guys!

[–]iiEviNii 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When mods delete a thread on Reddit, the thread is removed from the subreddit, and whatever OP wrote is deleted, but a ghost of the thread remains intact on the Reddit servers with all comments, and the thread is still active and can be commented on at any time, only accessible via a direct link or a few subreddit's that mirror posts and record them (I don't really know how they work though)

[–]Snake210 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

HOSTY GHOSTY

[–]ob4y 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Most likely Amaz forced the mods hand and asked them to remove it. Similar thing happened when there was another controversy concerning Amaz.

EDIT: Not to be the conspiracy theorist, but how come Amaz is the only pro player with a flair on this sub-reddit? Feels like some clear bias on his side.

[–]Xrldr 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (15子コメント)

what was that?

[–]ob4y 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (14子コメント)

He had a kickstarter for an alternative card game which got funded for 30,000 dollars. It hadn't received an update in half a year and people assumed they were scammed and brought the news to this reddit. It was promptly removed when Amaz noticed it on Stream.

[–]bigchickenleg 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm looking at the Kickstarter page right now and don't see a "half a year" gap in updates.

[–]TheOldDrake 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

From looking at the kickstarter page, the project was funded February of last year, and there were updates in March, June, July, August, September, October, October 31st (essentially November), December, and most recently a few days ago to announce that the product had shipped to HK and was in the process of shipping to NA. Perhaps a slightly lengthy development time for a card game, but certainly well within the acceptable range of kickstarted products, and hardly a "controversy".

I think it's pretty reasonable to want to have a post falsely alleging fraud on your behalf removed.

[–]ob4y 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not accusing anybody of fraud, I'm merely statign what I observed from when someone outside of the Hearthstone community posted a thread about it at the time. I'm sure others can remember when that was posted and there was an uproar on his stream.

[–]TheOldDrake 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My point is not that you were alleging fraud, rather that just because twitch chat thinks it's appropriate to do so doesn't mean it actually is, especially when the claims were clearly baseless.

For people who make their living selling their personality on a service like twitch, it's vitally important to maintain a good reputation if that's a part of your image (which, for Amaz, it is). Making sure false claims against you are removed isn't just the right thing to do, it's also good business.

[–]vortes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe yesterday he said on stream that most people in China got their set recently.

[–]Kaeoz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perma link?

[–]Marquisdes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Has there been any update since? How long has it been?

[–]ob4y 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There was an update a few weeks after the reddit allegations, but I'm only basing this off the thread I read a while back.

[–]Atacama98 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

was an update a few weeks after the reddit allegations

No, there were loads of updates all the way through 2014. Just move back through the pages and check the dates

[–]mak6453 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you don't actually know what you are talking about, you're just calling out someone with a bit of fame while playing the telephone game?

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]Get_Fcked -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    yep.. amaz is starting to shape up as a scumbag who puts on a fake persona to the public, and tries to have anything bad about him removed.

    [–]iiEviNii -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Not to be the conspiracy theorist, but proceeds to state a complete conspiracy theory

    [–]throwaway23245678 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Seriously? As if Amaz covering for Hosty wasn't bad enough, we now have the subreddit mods covering for him too?

    There was no personal info divulged, only stuff related to the the tournament, no good reason to delete the thread.

    [–]drewson87 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    How did Amaz cover for him?

    [–]Axacu 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Really, there's no reason to believe Amaz is covering for Hosty ATM.

    [–]Noivis[🍰] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He is just being professional about it. At least as far as we can tell by now. For all we know Hosty gets a load of shit now that the stream is off. Had amaz started talking about the whole cheating thing in the middle of games instead of announcing the consequences some time later the whole thing would largely get out of control.

    [–]iiEviNii 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah fuck Amaz, covering for Hosty by not announcing live on stream in the middle of a tournament that Hosty is a cheater and has been kicked out of Team Archon before actually reviewing what happened. Also he clearly doesn't have the sense to know that announcing such a thing during the tournament is the best way to go about it obviously.

    Seriously guys? Wait a couple of days and see what happens. In order to not compromise the tournament, and also because he's probably busy as hell, Amaz will likely do nothing until after the tournament is over. Hosty is out now anyway so there's no massive haste on dealing with this problem. People are jumping the gun just a little on this matter. Maybe he will cover for him, maybe he'll kick him out, maybe he'll pretend it never happened, but how the fuck would any of us know which is gonna happen yet?

    [–]egoplant 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It makes me wonder how many other people are sniping as well. Just log out of twitch and don't put a reflective surface behind you, doesn't seem all that difficult. Delay should be longer than 10 minutes.

    [–]gorlokHS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I do find it a little bit unfair how when a unsponsored player like RDU gets caught cheating , the thread stays up forever. But when it's an Amaz team member , better close that thread quick!

    [–]SkillroyMcPWNkins 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And I thought forsens mods were nazis..

    [–]goggris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Before people start burning the mods at the stake, please remember that Reddit has very specific anti-witchhunting rules. Mods must walk a fine line between allowing specific threads but also protecting individuals from harassment (even if the accusations have merit). There have been many, many times in other gaming subreddits where accusations were not only baseless, but some were even maliciously started with doctored evidence for the sole purpose of starting a hate-train against an individual.

    Just something to keep in mind. Please give the mods the benefit of the doubt that they are actively monitoring and deciding the best way to handle a delicate situation.

    [–]Poncho_v 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    fuck ghosty

    [–]MastaManila 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Can anyone shed some light on this? No idea what is going on...

    [–]Peanlocket 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Someone made a topic with an image that appeared to show a reflection of two monitors in the glare of something in the background of Hosty's room. The implication is that both monitors had hearthstone on them so one was his game and the other was the stream.

    [–]Rbeplz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2u4d4r/hosty_cheating_vs_lifecoach_pinnacle_2/

    [–]belmakier- 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think the purpose of the thread was achieved. the possibility of cheating and any evidence supporting it was noted, collated, and presumably brought to the attention of the relevant people. beyond that (especially now that the stream's finished), by continuing to fuel the fire we risk turning it into yes, a witch-hunt.

    I await the response of Amaz and/or the Pinnacle team eagerly.

    [–]ChrisKamro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Clearly Team Archon wants this scandal not seen Kappa Or the Iluminati are behind this.

    [–]throwaway23245678 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The long established prestige of the hearthstone scene was destroyed by the actions of a unhinged hosty and his accomplices team archon SwiftRage

    [–]mumonkey72 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    everyone just needs to chill

    [–]yotengodormir -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Some people just love making drama.

    [–]fuzzywhiskers -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Some good the 'cheating' did if he went 2 and out in the tournament.

    [–]Ominus666 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So Hosty lost? I was watching the match and Lifecoach was giving him a solid thrashing. 3-0 when I tuned out. Well I know it was 2-0 for sure, and I'm pretty sure he won the last game too.

    [–]denob -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Hmmm makes me wonder about his constant long turns now

    [–]fuzzywhiskers 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    If long turns is a sign of someone cheating, Lifecoach must be the biggest cheat of them all.

    [–]denob 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Actually I had mistaken hosty for lifecoach my bad

    [–]iiEviNii 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He's known as Ropecoach for a reason! He literally thinks out every possible scenario, even to the most ridiculously obscure ones, but better safe than sorry I suppose.

    [–]ploki122 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Coming from a Poker scene, he wouldn't be my last suspect. I'm also glad there's a time limit since he's obviously not cheating and simply taking his time, and I'm sure he'd take twice that time if he could.

    [–]Karkuro -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    #JeSuisCharlie

    [–]Aberdinho -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I don't know how much of an advantage ghosting 10 minutes late is anyway, but these streams being available to the players just asks for it.

    [–]Atacama98 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    For tournaments and their controlly play styles (as in the games are very long, 10+ mins) you can see cards that had been in the opponent's hand 10 mins ago but still haven't been played. This would mean this card is still in their hand. Lemme elaborate-

    Say after the mulligan I draw into Ragnaros. This is 10 mins ago. This is what is on my stream currently. In reality the game has moved on but that Ragnaros hadn't appeared yet, even in the 10 mins. So now you know that I have Ragnaros in my hand and can plan your moves accordingly.

    This may seem like only a slight advantage, and it really is only slight, but that is beside the point. When there is cheating involved we don't look at if it was effective or if it was well thought out. All that matters was there was a breach in ethical conduct and for that he needs to be accountable and actions have to be taken in the tourney accordingly.

    This is why attempted murder is also a crime. I'm not saying this is of equal weight, just drawing parallels.

    [–]Marquisdes 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Seeing an Alexstrasza in someone's opening hand 10 minutes down the line is an extreme advantage I'd say (just one example), esp versus freeze mage.

    [–]Aberdinho 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah you're right.. I'm not sure why it's not a longer delay tbh, it's not like the casters interact with chat or anything.

    [–]quasarc 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    How would you make the stream unavailable? They're playing from their homes.

    [–]Aberdinho 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Longer delay, have someone (an admin) be able to see what they are doing during the games?

    [–]iiEviNii 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Prior makes sense, but the latter is literally impossible from a personal security point of view.

    [–]Sugusino 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A) more than zero.

    B) That's bullshit

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