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[–]Glo0b3r 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (223子コメント)

9/11

Lots of conspiracy theorists claim that the jet fuel from the jets that hit the WTC couldn't melt the steel beams supporting the towers.

[–]tomdarch 166 ポイント167 ポイント  (148子コメント)

Reality: Steel starts significantly loosing strength at just 300F. We put a lot of effort into protecting steel structures from fires in buildings. The WTC buildings had parts of their exterior steel frames destroyed from the impact, with lots of building above pressing down. By taking out some of the structure, the loads from the floors above were concentrated unevenly on a few of the remaining columns.

The debris from the crashing planes tore a lot of the fireproofing off of the remaining steel framing on the floors of the impact. The offices were full of carpet, furniture, and key: paper. The jet fuel from the wings soaked all that stuff and set it on fire, creating fires on those floors that were more intense than normal building fires (thanks to the "accelerant" jet fuel.)

So, you've got a hotter than normal fire, steel structural framing that's both directly damaged and has much of its fireproofing torn off, and you've still got tens of stories of building above pressing down. The buildings didn't collapse immediately, but rather took a while for these interior fires to heat up the steel framing to the point that a few of the remaining columns failed, starting a chain reaction that caused significant portions of the structure in the damaged floors to collapse, and at that point the mass of the building above was moving fast enough that it crushed the remaining building below.

You don't need steel to literally melt into a liquid to loose strength. By 800 or 1,000 F, it has lost most of its strength, particularly when the building has been damaged.

[–]straightwestcoastin 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I would believe you if you could spell 'lose'

[–]WIDE_OPEN_BEAVERS 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (6子コメント)

He loost my confidence as well.

[–]aquaknox -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe you are just bias.

That's right, not only do you have a bias, making you biased, you actually are bias against some of these very strange internet spelling errors that seem to pop up all the time.

[–]Udub 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (84子コメント)

To add on, this chart demonstrates steel strength vs temperature.

This conspiracy has literally zero legs to stand on. The structure behaved exactly as one would expect.

Edit: From what /u/tomdarch said, little has to be added to the discussion. The structure was physically damaged in that exterior steel was essentially removed and thus resulted in the upper part of the structure having cantilevered components. We design buildings for pretty extreme amounts of gravity loads, in comparison to what the structure actually sees. This is why the structure did not collapse immediately after the impact of the plane alone - impact loading likely caused structural damage throughout the structure as well. Gypsum (I think, just from memory, I'm on mobile so forgive me if I am wrong in that gypsum was used as fireproofing) paneling was used and was knocked off of the steel from impact. So not only were many members stressed far beyond what they were designed for, very soon after impact there would be fires easily at 1000 degrees F and without fireproofing the steel is going to fail. I don't doubt that there could be temperatures greater than what jet fuel can burn at. If we flew a plane into another skyscraper, we could find temperatures from the fire above 1500 degrees if we wanted to.

If you really want to believe that the conspiracy is true, go for it. But if you think anything extra was needed besides a plane to get either tower to collapse, you're simply wrong. The structure behaves exactly as one could expect.

My source is the designers of the twin towers, who get easily irritated by conspiracy theories regarding the twin towers. I suspect many structural engineers would respond similarly.

[–]SenorArchibald 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (51子コメント)

thanks for the science lesson /r/BlackPeopleTwitter

[–]phillyFart 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"This conspiracy has literally zero legs to stand on. The structure behaved exactly as one would expect. "

Neither did the building.

[–]TheDyingGaul 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/imgoingtoblacktwitterhellforthis

[–]SneakyTikiz 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah bro but, what about building 7?

[–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Simba_HD 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I was under the assumption that planned demolitions like that took days or weeks to plan out. It was pretty convenient, that the people needed to set those bombs were even on call during that time, let alone having enough time to decide on where to set charges and go in to set them? Can you enlighten me?

    --edit-- I also can't find anything that says it was going to fall on its side as their reason for 'pulling it'. Wiki cites it as falling due to uncontrolled fires.

    [–]FuLLMeTaL604 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    What you people fail to realize is that WTC 7 was intentionally felled for safety reasons.

    Where did you get this information? Wikipedia does not mention this at all.

    [–]freedomchaser -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Found the shill

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]five_finger_ben 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Draaaaaaven

      [–]freedomchaser -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Not even close.. Unless you were assuming I am a white american, in which case you'd be correct. But no, I am 22. 145 pounds thanks to my hyperthyroidism, and 5'11.

      EDIT: Which is hilarious because you actively post in /r/teenagers lmao. Nice try kiddo

      EDIT 2: /u/Thats-So-Draaven just in case you miss me

      [–]GroundhogExpert 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      It's embarrassing that people think steel has to melt before it's unable to support a goddamn skyscraper.

      [–]tejmuk 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Could you debunk the "free fall tumble" speed theory of the towers collapsing?

      [–]akkahwoop 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      [–]gobi_ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      It achieved freefall for them majority of the collapse.

      [–]akkahwoop 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      It collapsed 40% slower than it would have at freefall.

      [–]gobi_ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It fell in stages

      • Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).

      • Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)

      • Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity

      [–]GroundhogExpert -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Are you serious?

      [–]PapaPilgrim -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah. It's stupid.

      Edit: Just watch this. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K82wcKwxPZc

      [–]TreeMonger 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You don't need steel to literally melt into a liquid to loose strength. By 800 or 1,000 F, it has lost most of its strength, particularly when the building has been damaged.

      Except there are pictures and videos that clearly show molten steel...

      [–]Paid_Shill_for 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I support this statement.

      [–]SexyNugs 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      How is this not common sense

      [–]LinksOrGTFO 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      How do melted steel beams cause a freefall collapse into the building's own footprint?

      [–]macsenscam 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The only problem is that FEMA and NIST say that the fuel burned off mostly inthe initial fireball and the rest could have lasted no more than five minutes. So yea, it got the fire started quickly, but after that it's just a paper/rug fire and no hotter than the usual office fire.

      [–]Whynotpie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Thatand the fact the weight of a fucking plane was added in a violent explosive manner

      [–]halviti -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      you realize the entire buildings evaporated into a pile of molten steel that burned for months, despite firefighters best efforts, right?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm3Ot1JxNdE

      and that there was molten metal pouring out of the building prior to the collapse

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmuzyWC60eE

      EDIT: you're only downvoting reality.

      [–]motioncuty -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

      [–]reputable_opinion -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

      the NIST report is bunk.

      [–]motioncuty -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      I bet you didn't even read it.

      [–]reputable_opinion -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      then you lose your bet. I liked the part most where they didn't examine explosive causes because there was no audible evidence of explosives.

      LOL. or the one about free fall acceleration from fire. by hiding their model input data, and fudging the structural components. the model they presented of their conlcusions is ridiculous. it doesn't remotely resemble what we see - which is straight down collapse of WTC7 at free fall. keep grasping at authority straws.

      [–]motioncuty -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      I actually agree with you on the murkiness of the free fall acceleration or the reluctance to examine explosives,but I still think it doesn't discredit the ability for the jet fuel fire to cause the steel weakness leading to collapse of the main towers which is the argument that I am using these documents to support.

      [–]gobi_ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      What jet fuel was in WTC7?

      [–]reputable_opinion -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      cause the steel weakness

      'motlen metal, like you were in a foundry'

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy_jMrJGF9M

      the DSC results of the explosive residue in the dust + free fall + no investigation of explosives.. ok, it was 'weakening' LMAO.

      FBI were involved in blowing up the same buildings in 1993.. how dumb are you people? or is everyone in the know and it's nudge nudge wink wink? the syndicate..

      [–]motioncuty -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I'm not going to get into this discussion with you, even if they used thermite and explosions, a plane still hit the building, the intumescent paint still broke off, and a jet fuel fire could easily weaken those steal trusses supporting the occupant floors. Even if the government had played a part, I don't really give a fuck, I am just supporting the idea that a plane could do that much damage on it's own. Also, they way you present your argument is probably the worst way to change people's minds.

      [–]reputable_opinion 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      plane still hit the building,

      no plane hit WTC7. it fell straight down in the afternoon at free fall acceleration.

      I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm debunking the official conspiracy theory.

      [–]cb2 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (28子コメント)

      So what does that have to do with anything? I'm sorry I'm dumb 😥

      [–]salamander- 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (27子コメント)

      implying that someone/US government planted explosives in the buildings to ensure they came down to use as an excuse to thrust the U.S into an endless war that drives the weapons manufacturing and mercenary industry...of which had may ties to the White House at the time of said events.

      [–]akkahwoop 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (26子コメント)

      But in which case, why bother with the planes at all? Why not just blow up the buildings if you knew the planes wouldn't work?

      [–]GrenzePsychiater 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      As a cover-up. Come on dude...

      [–]I_Said_Biiiiiiiiitch 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      But why male models...?

      [–]aidanski -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Mugatu!

      [–]akkahwoop 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      But why bother with a cover-up? It's not like terrorists hadn't previously tried to bomb the WTC or anything... Just blow it up and say terrorists did it. The whole cover-up thing with the planes seems needlessly convoluted.

      [–]scamper_pants 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Right, which is why most people with half a brain have been able to come to the conclusion that the government was not behind 9/11

      [–]DefinitelyHungover -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think it's scarier to believe that the government didn't have something to do with it.

      On the real, 9/11 was/is still a seriously touchy topic for some people. I have lots of questions in my mind about how and why everything went down, and more on how and why we handled it as we did. Whether or not the conspiracy theorists or the non con theorists are right is pretty insignificant to me, but I feel like the more people stay caught up in that = the less people talk about other causes and effects that have much more actual meaning than the physical event that happened. Oh how big bangs and bright lights can be such the attention grabber.

      [–]MossadOwnsPOTUS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      half a brain

      Fail Harder?

      [–]JohnCri 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

      operation northwoods

      [–]akkahwoop -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Proposed but never enacted 40 years earlier, and also... if you're doing a false flag operation, why do something so overly complicated when a simple bombing would have worked just as well?

      [–]JohnCri 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Just saying operation northwoods shows what is possible. It quiets everyone from saying, The gubbament whould neva!

      Also complexity of an operation necessarily obfuscates the data people would need to see the false flag. Kind of like how the IRS recently lost a whole bunch of emails, And they lost the backups, oh and everyones cellphone that would of had the emails came up missing. Just makes for tasty conversation!

      Im not claiming I know, or that his is fact. Just kind of shooting the shit with you guys more of a casual conversation.

      [–]akkahwoop -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      It quiets everyone from saying, The gubbament whould neva!

      Not that I am saying that, but the government...didn't actually do it.

      [–]MossadOwnsPOTUS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Wrong again, shilly shill.

      [–]akkahwoop 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      MossadOwnsPOTUS

      holocaust denier

      Why am I not surprised you guys emerged in a 9/11 thread?

      [–]IamLordFlacko 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Make it look like somebody else did it

      [–]akkahwoop 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      It's equally easy to blame a bomb on terrorists as it is to blame a hijacking on terrorists.

      [–]IamLordFlacko -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Idk I think they tried bombing it some years before and the building didn't collapse. Plus there's two buildings and its way easier to see that there is an inside man if two huge buildings get destroyed by bombs.

      [–]akkahwoop 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      its way easier to see that there is an inside man if two huge buildings get destroyed by bombs.

      Err...why? They're in one complex, and they're next to each other. A sufficiently massive explosion at the base would work pretty effectively. Imagine the conversation at the Secret Evil False Flag Conspiracy Bureau:

      "We need to destroy the WTC."

      "Why?"

      "To make everyone all afraid and support the military industrial complex."

      "OK, cool, do we blow it up?"

      "No, we need to fly planes into it."

      "But planes wouldn't work! Jet fuel can't melt steel!"

      "Drat! Such an obvious flaw in our brilliant plan!"

      "..."

      "I know, we'll blow the buildings up!"

      "Brilliant!"

      "OK, we need to find a couple of planes."

      "But I thought-"

      "WE NEED THE PLANES."

      [–]SneakyTikiz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You seem very aggressive and set in your view, there are many theories concerning 9/11, I suggest you look for hard evidence like the molten material pouring out of the towers in some spots(or molten metal at bottom of collapsed towers burning for over a month after towers fell. Look into the university professor who got samples of dust and looked at these red "iron oxide" chips with the school's electron microscope finding that a violent chemical reaction had happened at a nano level. This dude starting talking out about this and the school fired him, a professor with tenure lol.

      [–]peppaz -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Homeland security and the TSA were created in response, that was one of the goals of the Project for a New American Century.

      [–]peppaz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      They created the TSA immediately.

      [–]akkahwoop -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      So? That's hardly surprising after a hijacking.

      [–]Search_ShaggieTv -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The post just went from funny to hilarious. Thanks.

      [–]MossadOwnsPOTUS -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      conspiracy theorists

      Guess Again

      [–]IAMAVelociraptorAMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Like he said, conspiracy theorists.

      [–]MossadOwnsPOTUS -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      theory

      You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

      Maybe read something?

      http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/

      [–]IAMAVelociraptorAMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      When I was 12 I got caught up in that conspiracy nonsense. Then I took middle school physics and understood that 9/11 conspiracies are complete nonsense.

      There's a reason the vast majority of the scientific, engineering, and political communities disagree and have thoroughly debunked every conspiracy claim put forward.

      Clinging to "scientists for 9/11 truth" is the last desperate grasp for legitimacy of an increasingly irrelevant conspiracy.

      [–]MossadOwnsPOTUS -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I took middle school physics

      A) /r/QuitYourBullshit

      B) http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/

      (Your middle school physics [sic] taught you more than what these Doctors of Physics know? Neat!)

      [–]IAMAVelociraptorAMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Considering those Doctors of Physics are wrong, and I'm not, yes.

      Why is it that only those Doctors of Physics who are in the extreme minority and scientifically, factually, incorrect are those you claim to be correct?

      What about the thousands of Doctors of Physics who disagree with you, who outnumber the "scientists for 9/11 truth" to the tune of 99% to 1%, and who are actually correct and have an understanding of basic physics?

      Oh, right, they don't agree with you, so they're jew shills.

      [–]MossadOwnsPOTUS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Considering those Doctors of Physics are wrong, and I'm not, yes.

      Hilarious.

      You've said all you need to say.

      Bye kiddo.