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C.S. Lewis shares his theology regarding Masturbation (jonathandavidmedina.tumblr.com)

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[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (98子コメント)

I don't really understand why people think masturbation is wrong.

[–]jonathandmedina[S] 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (82子コメント)

What did you think of CS Lewis' thoughts?

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (81子コメント)

I just don't buy it at all. He makes masturbation seem as though the primary purpose is to remove yourself from reality and pretend you are something more than you are. In reality, masturbation is something we do because it's wholly natural. Our bodies depend on hormone balance to function optimally. Masturbation is a healthy part of maintaining that balance. It's actually much better for your testes and sperm production if you masturbate (I say this as a medical student). There is a good reason why it's such a universal behaviour.

[–]Eastern OrthodoxSuperstump 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There are cultures to which it is completely alien. I remember hearing about a study some researchers were doing that required them to obtain samples of semen from tribesmen in Africa. They had to explain, very graphically, to the men how to masturbate, and even having done that, many of the samples came back mixed with vaginal fluids. An Anecdote, but with your being a medical student with more access to medical data, you could look into this more, if the interest struck you.

[–]Atheistswarlay 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Married Aka and Ngandu men and women consistently reported having sex multiple times in a single night."

No wonder they don't care about masturbation after that.

Very interesting story, though.

Where Masturbation and Homosexuality Do Not Exist

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've heard of this before. There are maybe 3 or 4 cultures in the world that are known not to have a concept of masturbation. On a global scale, that is statistically completely insignificant. These cultures are also generally known to have very high copulation rates (3 or more times a night) as well so I'm sure that influences why that is.

[–]Presbyteriantim117 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It's actually much better for your testes and sperm production if you masturbate.

Can you provide evidence for that statement? I am also a medical student. Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with your statement.

[–]Christian, Evolutionary CreationistBones_MD 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Premed here, I've heard the same thing but I've never seen evidence for it.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's just the similar benefits that sex gives you. Obviously most of us aren't having daily sex.

Study: Daily sex helps to reduce sperm DNA damage and improve fertility the European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology (ESHRE). Press releases ESHRE 2009, Tuesday 30 June 2009

[–]Christian (Cross)jofwu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Does it say if this is a long term issue or not? Because if you're concerned about the quality of your DNA and your fertility then you're trying to have a baby. Which means (in my view) you should be in a committed relationship where daily sex is quite possible. If you're not in that situation, and long term DNA/fertility damage is not a concern, then I don't think your argument stands.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

He specifically asked about sperm production. This is the appropriate study for his question. I don't think there are really long term issues, but the point is that masturbation keeps your testes in their healthiest condition. Whether or not you find that relevant is up to you.

[–]Presbyteriantim117 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was actually interested in the "better for your testes," part. I should have been more clear. I wasn't sure if you meant masturbation is associated with lower rates of testicular cancer or something to that effect. Although I think I follow your reasoning.

Also, do you have a link to the actual study? I couldn't find it from the news article you linked.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure if you can find the full paper without access to medical journals. I'll see if I can find it.

[–]Christian (Cross)jofwu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You misunderstand me. It appears to me that the study concerns sperm health, not testes health, right? And I don't know if I'm convinced that unhealthy sperm indicates unhealthy testes.

So my point is, if sperm health is directly correlated with sexual activity (i.e. a change in sexual activity results in a relatively immediate change in sperm health) then I don't think you have an argument here. Because if you aren't trying to conceive then it doesn't matter how healthy your sperm are. And on the other hand, if you suddenly decided to conceive and your sperm health instantly improves with the increased sexual activity then you have nothing to worry about.

Couple this with the fact that most people arguing against masturbation would also argue in favor of sex only in the context of marriage and you're making a moot point. If I'm only going to conceive with my wife, with whom I can have oodles of sex, then I don't have a need to masturbate (to keep my sperm healthy).

If poor sperm health is the result of poor testes health, and if this particular unhealthy testes case has other more serious dangers or it cannot be reversed easily, then you make a good point. I would need to masturbate before marriage or in circumstances which keep me away from my wife for extended periods. But I don't see these arguments being made/proven here.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14681990601149197#.VL6AJGTF_38

This study talks about the benefits of both coitus and masturbation, with greater potential benefits through coitus.

You might be able to find a free version with some googling?

[–]Atheistcattaclysmic 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I say this as a medical student

:D

Another one!

[–]jonathandmedina[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (24子コメント)

Are you a Christian?

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Not anymore. I just enjoy some of the philosophy now, but I had the exact same feelings about it when I was a christian.

[–]jonathandmedina[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I was just curious, because Christianity has a different set of values, so I didn't want to "cross the wires" in a blind discussion. :)

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (13子コメント)

As far as I know, the bible doesn't say anything about masturbation. Whether or not it's "kosher" comes down to how people interpret verses about sexual immorality. Given what modern science has taught us about how our bodies work, I think it's fair to interpret masturbation as healthy and congruent with a Christian worldview. After all, many teachings have been reinterpreted and understood in different ways as our metaphysical knowledge increased.

[–]jonathandmedina[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I think there are Christians who agree with you. The way I understand the Bible is this: God's people belong to Him, and sex belongs to Him. God get's to define what sex is and how (when) we should enjoy it. It only makes sense that we should look to the designer for the road map to the best sex. Then again, like you said, you can make anything you want to be "congruent with a Christian world view", so we just have two different opinions here, hanging out. :)

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Understandable. Obviously as a medical student I would advise you to masturbate occasionally in order to maximize the health of your sperm but that's your prerogative!

[–]Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)adamthrash 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Random question: what happens when someone doesn't?

[–]Atheisttinkady 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sex gives all the same benefits right?

[–]Secular Humanist_watching 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about lust? I don't have a belief in the Bible but if I did, I'd have a hard time not making a connection w/ that.

[–]erethOut_21328 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I am a Christian and I agree with the med student. Not only is masturbation a regulatory function, but also a stress reliever, pain reliever, etc. Before my root canal, the only "medicine" that relieved my deep tooth pain was masturbation. Masturbation is a normal function that should never be demonized just because it feels good.

Catholics and their unearned shame, tsk tsk.

[–]Anglican Communionblue9254 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't think most demonization of masturbation is because it feels good.

[–]Chuckabear 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Perhaps not the only source of demonization, but there are several people in this thread who base their view of masturbation on the inherent pleasure.

[–]Anglican Communionblue9254 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are there? I haven't seen any but I haven't been following it really.

[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It essentially is. Masturbation is demonised because of its ties to lust. Lust = feeling good - one is a causation of the other.

[–]Anglican Communionblue9254 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lust does feel good (in its way), but lust is not just feeling good and that's certainly not why it's considered sinful. Sex feels good but there's nothing inherently wrong about that.

[–]LDS (Mormon)DurtMacGurt 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lots of things relieve pain and stress, but that doesn't make them inherently good or moral to partake in.

[–]LDS (Mormon)themouseinator 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doesn't make them inherently immoral either, though.

[–]Mennonitedarrrrrren 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He makes masturbation seem as though the primary purpose is to remove yourself from reality and pretend you are something more than you are. In reality, masturbation is something we do because it's wholly natural. Our bodies depend on hormone balance to function optimally. Masturbation is a healthy part of maintaining that balance. It's actually much better for your testes and sperm production if you masturbate (I say this as a medical student).

Even if the dangers Lewis warns against are not the primary purpose they are still the main mechanism by which we do achieve the "primary" purpose. To just brush them aside and say "well they aren't the end goal so I won't even address them" is a bit of a question-dodge.

[–]Sacred Heartur2l8 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Our bodies depend on hormone balance to function optimally. Masturbation is a healthy part of maintaining that balance. It's actually much better for your testes and sperm production if you masturbate (I say this as a medical student).

Citation? Completely false.

[–]Christian, Evolutionary CreationistBones_MD 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Masturbating a lot is linked directly with depression, but masturbating regularly but not excessively is known to lower risk of prostate cancer, clear sperm that is near the end of cell life from your reproductive system, and can have a pain and muscle relaxing effect on the body.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm talking about people who aren't having sex regularly. Do you need a citation for the common knowledge that sperm has a shelf life?

Study: Daily sex helps to reduce sperm DNA damage and improve fertility the European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology (ESHRE). Press releases ESHRE 2009, Tuesday 30 June 2009

[–]Sacred Heartur2l8 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

No shit. I'm not talking about problems for future progeny. I'm talking about negative consequences toward the male who DOES NOT masturbate. Are you an M1?

Our bodies depend on hormone balance to function optimally. Masturbation is a healthy part of maintaining that balance.

This is utter bullshit.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I read this book a couple of years ago and learned it from here.

Take it up with him.

[–]Sacred Heartur2l8 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Surely, he'd cite at least one EBM paper.

Too bad they don't exist. Prove to me your thesis via a published paper. I don't care for some crackpot book, or whatever the hell that is.

I'm so damn tired of people putting out shit science on the Internet.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you even look at it? It's literally full of references to scientific literature.

[–]Sacred Heartur2l8 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

(I say this as a medical student)

Lol at the attempt to elevate your opinion.

-M4

[–]Christian DeistDe_Facto 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just because you disagree with his view doesn't mean you should be rude. He makes a very good point backed up by simple biology.

[–]Sacred Heartur2l8 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was a joke. That's why I signed off as M4. I'm a 4th year med student. It's just hilarious that he signed off his comment with "(I say this as a medical student)." Being in med school teaches you nothing about this, in fact, I disagree completely with him, and I say this as a medical student.

He makes a very good point backed up by simple biology.

Pray tell what the good point is? I see nothing cited there at all. You won't find anything on Pubmed either. He's completely wrong--Literally, there is something wrong in each of his 3 last sentences. Hell, masturbation is not even universal, and that's the least of his incorrect points.

[–]Christian DeistDe_Facto 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is masturbation not natural? I'll tell you what isn't natural. Circumcision.

Masturbation doesn't exist there because the men have sex several times a night with their women, eliminating the process completely. If someone offered you this awesome Bose sound system for your '92 Grand Marquis that you get to use permanently, would you rather keep the shitty stock system? It's a broad analysis of the situstion, but it fits. The argument you're making is so easily defeated. You're basically saying that it isn't natural because it isn't universal in two tribes on the planet. If you were a med. student who has taken an entry bio class, you'd actually understand that it's a perfectly natural process that greatly helps the function of your prostate.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You may ignore it if you wish.

[–]Sacred Heartur2l8 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Leave it to the secular humanist to provide false medical information.

[–]Zzyyzxx -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Do you think man did it before the fall? Do you think Jesus did it? Who are we trying to emulate? As Christians we follow his steps. Masturbation is wrong.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

As if anybody knows the actual answers to that. And can't you just see it in the bible now? Matthew 15: "And then Jesus whacked off"

You really think it would be in the bible either way?

[–]Zzyyzxx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I didn't ask what the bible says I asked what you thought.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it's kind of a pointless exercise to speculate but I think man has always masturbated. It's not even unique to humanity. Plenty of animals masturbate too.

[–]Zzyyzxx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not at all. He was God in the flesh and set an example for us.

[–]EmergentRedditRolledClimber 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Do you think man did it before the fall? Do you think Jesus did it?

It's clear that you think the answers to those questions are clear. I don't think they're clear at all, and I don't think "Jesus didn't do it" is a good argument, considering that you're making that argument on Reddit.

[–]Christian (Cross)guitar_vigilante 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Especially since, guess what, Jesus didn't get married either, but nobody goes around saying "Jesus never got married, Christians can't get married."

[–]Messianic JewMordvark 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He did seem to offer strong praise for celibacy, though. [Matthew 19:8-12]

Though I do get your logic. As a formula for determining the morality of action the formula 'one can never do what Jesus never did' or even 'one can only do what Jesus did' fails at always correctly determining if an action is moral. (As formulas go 'what would Jesus do?' is far more holistic—but on the grounds of this merit it is also not really a formula).

[–]Help all humans!VerseBot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Matthew 19:8-12 | English Standard Version (ESV)

[8] He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. [9] And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” [10] The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” [11] But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. [12] For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

Source Code | /r/VerseBot | Contact Dev | FAQ | Changelog | Statistics

All texts provided by BibleGateway and TaggedTanakh

[–]EmergentRedditRolledClimber 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, also this. I am just confused by Christians who think that there is an immediate and clear answer to every moral question. This wasn't true of the early church, why would it be true now?

[–]LDS (Mormon)DurtMacGurt -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The Bible is silent on that matter, you are assuming He didn't get married.

[–]Christian (Cross)guitar_vigilante 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not the same. Considering we have four biographies of Jesus' life and none of them mentions anything about a wife, a very very important thing to mention, and considering church tradition holds he lived a chaste life. You are right, the Bible is silent on the matter of Jesus' marriages, but the nature of this silence very very strongly suggests that Jesus never married. In fact it's almost absurd to suggest, from the basis of the Bible, that he could have been.

[–]zenradio -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Our bodies depend on hormone balance to function optimally. Masturbation is a healthy part of maintaining that balance

This is like saying "sugar smacks are a healthy part of this complete breakfast." It would be just as healthy or healthier without.

The body seeks to maintain homeostasis. Too much orgasm= too much release of hormones. This throws the body out of whack (technical term). The body can maintain hormones at a completely normal and healthy level without any masturbation.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just saying that it helps, not that it's necessary. It's definitely not harmful, that sugar analogy is misguided.

[–]zenradio -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think you need to be more circumspect. It is not helpful for everyone. Orgasm has negative mental/emotional after effects for some people.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Those people tend to misunderstand sex in general. Sex and health education in the west is pretty poor.

[–]zenradio 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean physiological effects.

[–]gazork_chumble_spuzz 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Do you think it's possible for a married couple to have too much sex? What if they did it every day?

Furthermore, there is evidence that sugar is unhealthy for our bodies...but there is NO evidence that the physical release of orgasm will screw up your hormones if you do it too much. lol Do you have a study to back up your theory that too much orgasm = too much release of hormones? Cuz I'd love to see that!

[–]zenradio -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I do think it's possible for a married couple to have more sex than what may be healthy for either of them.

I used to think "the more the better". Experience has convinced me otherwise.

Do you disagree that orgasm causes hormones to be released?

Do you disagree that hormones effect your body and mental state?

I don't have any studies to cite either way. I've seen enough personal testimony to know this is a real issue. Keep an open mind.

[–]gazork_chumble_spuzz 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Do you disagree that orgasm causes hormones to be released?

Do you even know which hormones you're talking about? It's not like you're gonna start growing hair on your palms. ;) Hormones aren't bad. Sex isn't dangerous. I don't understand why so many of my fellow Christians are so suspicious about sexuality - God made us sexual beings, and He gave us the ability to feel pleasure and an increased bond between partners as a result of the sexual relationship. Instead of always looking at it askance, as if maybe a dragon will appear out of nowhere and kill us all if we enjoy sex too much or have too many climaxes during our lifespan, maybe we should, like, read up on the facts instead.

Do you disagree that hormones effect your body and mental state?

All the latest science indicates that having sex and having regular sexual release is good for you. Two very brief internet searches yielded an awful lot of reputable scientific information about the well-known health benefits of orgasm. It's good for us. Instead of making us feel weird or worried, that should make us feel happy that God gave us such an awesome gift!

I don't have any studies to cite either way. I've seen enough personal testimony to know this is a real issue. Keep an open mind.

I'm sorry, but i've wasted enough years living according to other people's "personal experience" and conjecture and faulty logic, taught to me as doctrine and God's truth. I am not in any way interested in going down that road again. This isn't about having a closed mind; it's about not wanting to live my life following the teachings of people instead of God. I don't want to be living in a way that God never told us to live...what's the point of that?

[–]zenradio 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You are making some unwarranted assumptions about what I am trying to say. I find it amusing you need to tell me sex is a good thing. You don't have to convince me of that. What I am saying is orgasm is a physiological process that does not have universally positive effects. This is something you don't often hear. (edit) The immediate effects of orgasm are great,it's a natural high. But there is a "crash", for a lack of better term, that is disruptive and that has negative effect for some people. No doubt it is much more pronounced in some. Something to keep in mind.

[–]gazork_chumble_spuzz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

When I looked for information, the evidence supports the idea that it is overwhelmingly positive and good for one's health. There's very little evidence that it's bad for one's health. Majority consensus and all that.

But there is a "crash", for a lack of better term, that is disruptive and that has negative effect for some people. No doubt it is much more pronounced in some. Something to keep in mind.

And some people are allergic to sunlight. That doesn't mean it's bad for the rest of us to spend time outside. What's your point here? If someone is one of the unfortunate folks for whom orgasm is a downer, that's really awful, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us need to have fewer orgasms. Their problem has no bearing on anyone but themselves.

[–]zenradio 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Show me where I told anyone they need to have fewer orgasms.

I am well aware of the near-universal refrain that orgasm is always good, all the time.

If someone who has always been told that orgasm is always good, all the time, realizes that some people have found this to be inaccurate, perhaps they will have more information to evaluate their own situation.

Like I said, keep an open mind.

[–]LDS (Mormon)DurtMacGurt -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The body already has a better way of regulating sperm, it's called wet dream in layman's terms. No need to masturbate, because God designed the body to regulate itself.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

How many people get wet dreams on a consistent basis? Many people never get them at all.

[–]CharismaticKhifler 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You could argue that is because those people are masturbating regularly. I'd be interested to see if the occurrence of wet dreams increased any appreciable amount if someone who regularly masturbates abstains for a period of time.

[–]Secular Humanistoriginalsoul 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I suppose that's true. Maybe I'll ask in /r/NoFapChristians

[–]Eastern OrthodoxLuluThePanda 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think C.S. Lewis explains his thinking pretty clearly here!

[–]Christian AnarchistBecomingTheArchtype 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (12子コメント)

The act of masturbation isnt wrong. Its the act of lusitng where it is a sin.

[–]NoahFect -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

So what you're saying is that testosterone, which forces most men to commit that particular sin, is the result of Lucifer hacking into God's source-code control system.

Maybe God should tighten up His firewall a bit, and run a McAfee scan. Because the alternative -- a world in which God intentionally set us up to fail -- has logical problems, to say the least.

[–]Christian AnarchistBecomingTheArchtype 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I dont recall saying that.

[–]NoahFect -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How can you avoid saying it, once you've agreed with Christ that lust is sinful?

[–]Christian AnarchistBecomingTheArchtype 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well yes considering I agree with Christ on everything.

[–]Southern Baptistmorpen 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What in blazes are you talking about?

[–]NoahFect -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Do you have a better explanation/apologetic for Matthew 5:28?

[–]Southern Baptistmorpen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not really sure since I'm absolutely baffled by your first comment

[–]NoahFect 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why do you feel that God gave us biological urges that are unavoidably sinful in nature? Lust can't be blamed on Original Sin. It had to be programmed into our nature from the very start, just as it is with other animals.

[–]Southern Baptistmorpen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think masturbation is something we have to do. If you literally cannot resist masturbating, then I think that is considered a disorder.

[–]NoahFect 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, of course, you don't have to do it. But I think it's been well established that repression of normal, benign biological urges isn't psychologically sound.

[–]LDS (Mormon)AbrahamLinking 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're acting like he's saying all lust is evil.

[–]NoahFect -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

With respect to the specific case of a heterosexual male and an unmarried woman, that's exactly what he's saying. There is no other way to spin or sanitize this verse.

[–]Thumbucket 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How do/did you masturbate? Even when I was a child and masturbating, I thought of women. Nothing sexual, but it was sexual in my 5 year-old mind.