あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]elayile -12 ポイント-11 ポイント  (18子コメント)

You RedPillers are absolutely disgusting. Many of the most competent and resilient people whom I have met were women. My girlfriend and I help each other out in handling life's challenges; it's a beautiful relationship where we reinforce each other and live with mutual respect.

[–]Bulldog44 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh dude, we aren't talking about YOUR girlfriend, she's different.

[–]zero-irony 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what's the reason for being here then?

[–]Mooshaq 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Many of the most competent and resilient people whom I have met were women

My girlfriend and I help each other out

it's a beautiful relationship where we reinforce each other and live with mutual respect

Please don't assume that because you view/interpret the world a certain way that your interpretation is absolutely representative of factual reality. Maybe we're wrong, maybe you're correct. However, if you're trying to offer a counter-point, don't bother trying to do so by offering your own personal anecdotes. Your own interpretation of your experiences does not always represent the truth.

Most of the guys on this subreddit WERE LIKE YOU (myself included) before they started getting fed up with things and looked for alternative hypotheses and systems to describe what they were feeling and observing. The difference is that a lot of us (READ: I don't mean every single member, but rather a large portion of the members) have both personally seen and experienced your side of things and our current side of things, but you have only seen your side of things.

[–]elayile -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

On a philosophical level, I concede that my worldview is no more correct than yours. This agreement occurs because I don't believe in universal truths.

However, I believe that there are subjective normative beliefs that are accepted by most individuals in our society. And most people would agree on the subjective belief that the ideas expressed in TRP are reactionary and abhorrent.

Why would this phenomenon occur? These negative judgments occur because most people in modern society have accepted the following norms:

  • The worth of an individual is not predicated upon the person's gender.
  • Discrimination against women is antithetical to basic principles of fairness, individual agency, and human dignity.
  • It is immoral for an individual to treat others in exploitative or manipulative ways.

In sum, I can't force you to accept the norms held by the majority of society, and I can't even tell you (from an epistemological perspective) that these norms held by the majority of society are objectively correct.

What I can tell you, however, is that you will be ostracized by most people (including me, if you met me IRL) if you accept TRP's norms, as these people would conclude that you lack the ability to make sound moral judgments. And if you're looking for happiness, fulfillment, and healthy relationships, alienating most members of society is probably not the best starting point.

[–]Ratcheta 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I applaud this mature response and offer my own:

One can easily see the amount of hate for women within this subreddit. However 'reactionary' or 'abhorrent' those posts maybe be, they are the posts of those who, doing what they thought was right, have had no chances with women. Said persons discover TRP and are appalled at what they thought was right being completely ineffective if downright detrimental to any efforts, myself included. It is merely a phase that must past before proper learning must take place. Pay them no mind as they blow off steam here, away from where it would do them harm or others harm, around people who are here to support learning and improvement.

That being said, allow me to address the three points that the rest of society have 'accepted' as I understand TRP to see them:

  • What gender you are determines not your value, but what will be valued more in you. Women are more valued for appearance. Men are more valued for provisioning. This isn't to pigeonhole anyone, just what is the common trend.
  • We discriminate against gender same as we do race, same as we do one another. There are things one can change or fix with hard work. However, there are things that cannot be changed. They instead must be accepted and worked around. Such is the way of the stoic.
  • TRP considers sexual strategy, or any strategy for that matter, to be amoral. Neither good nor bad. To claim the opposite side is 'bad' is to play the victim and is nothing but weakness. Many of us have 'morals' and refuse to manipulate or otherwise, but just as many could care less. The same thing goes for everyone else. Not just us. There are, what you say, good and bad women, men, corporations, animals, inanimate objects, etc. TRP sees only grey.

Moving on. As you said, the majority is not always right. We may not be 100% correct either but our reasoning relies on facts and documented experiences as opposed to "it's what everyone else is doing/thinking/feeling. I digress, the ultimate goal of TRP is to become the best man possible by any means necessary. It is not about kicking women to the dirt. Rather the ideal TRP man is a leader with a woman at his side who's opinions he considers but he ultimately makes the final say. The best way to describe an ideal TRP long-term male/female relationship is that of a Captain and First Mate. Both important positions. The other stuff (plate spinning and the like) is a means to be sexually fulfilled while society is as it stands currently. It is proven to work so I finish with this: We are happy for you and your relationship, we hope the best, we do well here ourselves; we will be here, if unfortunately, you need us.

[–]Mooshaq 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In sum, I can't force you to accept the norms held by the majority of society, and I can't even tell you (from an epistemological perspective) that these norms held by the majority of society are objectively correct.

Why blindly accept what society dictates as norms or common subjective beliefs? Why not try and develop your own beliefs? That was the point I was making about the past of many TRP members. We blindly accepted society's norms and common beliefs, but we saw that something was wrong...that something didn't sit right.

The worth of an individual is not predicated upon the person's gender

Why not? Men are physically stronger than women, so we make better soldiers, firemen, etc. Women claim to be more empathetic than men, so they should make better nurses, preschool teachers, grief counselors, etc. Total worth maybe should not be based on gender, but value in certain situations absolutely should. If I'm in a burning building, do you think I want a female firefighter trying to rescue me if she cannot even carry 200 lbs. (I'm 215 lbs.)?

Discrimination against women is antithetical to basic principles of fairness, individual agency, and human dignity.

I don't understand where you get this from. It's not fair to you to discriminate against women, so why is it fair to discriminate against men? Why do you treat women like these mysterious delicate flowers that need coddling? If you really believe they have their own agency and can handle responsibilities, you should subject them to the same standards to which men are subjected.

It is immoral for an individual to treat others in exploitative or manipulative ways

I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with this. But if they were, they would probably argue that women's sexual strategy is very manipulative and exploitative (e.g. think of "the friend zone"). Society gladly accepts this strategy from women, yet when men do it people call them scoundrels. Go back to my/your second point; if women are so responsible and capable, why are they subjected to less strict standards than men? You people are also treating women like children by assuming this.

Your nice and wonderful ideals about women not deserving discrimination and manipulation were great in the 1940's when men and women complemented each other. I would be more than happy to stick to these ideals if women were still today like they were back then. It was fine to let women get away with shit because us men were valued more by our women, so a nice balance existed. These days women want their cake and to eat it too. Many women (i.e. sure, maybe your girlfriend is not in this category) want to be CEOs, want to sleep around, want to be better than their male counterparts. At the same time, these women do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

If a man isn't able to become a CEO because he has poor qualifications...sucks for him! If a woman isn't able to become a CEO because she has poor qualifications...she wasn't afforded enough opportunities and STEM programs and the oppressive white male is just holding her down. If Man A is yelling at Man B at work because Man B is not doing his job...he is absolutely in the right. But these days, if Man A is yelling at Woman A because she isn't doing her job...."sexual harassment." If a man willfully sleeps with a girl and then regrets it...he thinks to himself that he fucked up. If a woman willfully sleeps with a guy and then regrets it...she can LITERALLY say she was raped and win the court battle in many cases. There is proof throughout newspapers, online articles, etc. A woman wants the exact same pay as men for the exact same job, which I wholeheartedly agree with. But historically, most women work less hours, work less overtime and take longer leaves (e.g. maternity leave) than most men. This is why people believe there is a "gender wage gap," but really it is based on how much time you put in at work.

That's the point of this post. Nobody complained about women as much in the past because there was an agreement between men and women – men do certain things and women do other certain things. But now that women have broken that agreement, which is not necessarily a bad thing but rather just a change, they need to adapt. Women today want all the power that men have, but they are not willing to take on the responsibility. That's what this article is about. These are the kinds of things that TRP'ers were sick of seeing, so they looked elsewhere for explanations (i.e. this subreddit).

What I can tell you, however, is that you will be ostracized by most people (including me, if you met me IRL) if you accept TRP's norms, as these people would conclude that you lack the ability to make sound moral judgments.

I'm sorry you don't see anything the way we do, and you're probably better off because the magic will forever still be there for you. Just because our subjective beliefs are not "the norm," it does not make them less true. We base our beliefs off of experience (like you do) and observation, and we consider alternate explanations from the norm. Other people just blindly accept the norm because that's what they've been told.

You RedPillers are absolutely disgusting.

We are not the disgusting ones; the people that accept everything they are told and neither try to explain things for themselves nor look for alternate theories are the disgusting ones.

Just because you don't see these things or pay attention, it does not make them not true. We pay particular attention to these things, which I'll admit may introduce a small bit of selection bias, but ultimately makes us more able to pick up on these things.

[–]Subtletorious 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The old I Know Some Exceptions To The Rule Therefore The Rule Doesn't Exist argument.

[–]elayile -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (8子コメント)

The old, "I hate women because I can't interact with them in a healthy manner," argument.

[–]Subtletorious 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

School yard taunting like an emo teenager. It us no wonder you and your girlfriend are on the same level.

[–]elayile -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

A TRPer trying to teach a lesson about emotional maturity. How ironic.

[–]Subtletorious 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes from your perspective it would appear ironic.

I think some Red Pill would be helpful for you.

[–]elayile -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nah. My girlfriend and I are equal partners in our relationship, and our mutual investments have led to something beautiful.

We have great sex (because we care about each other's sexual fulfillment), we have a great friendship that allows us to enjoy our time with each other, we have promising careers, and we're looking forward to a bright future together.

I would probably find that "some Red Pill" would destroy the wonderful life that I've built with my SO, insult my sense of personal integrity, and push me down the hell-hole of dysfunctional relationships in which you seem to live.

[–]BarelyLegalZ 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He fucks his gf then she pulls out the strap-on and bends him over... equal relationship

[–]Subtletorious 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Twu wuv

I can almost guarantee you will be the second person to know it has ended. Guessing by your like for fat shaming your gf is probably in decent physical condition. When your gf realises her true sexual value she will inexplicably feel the need to "find herself" and "meet other people". Unless you understand the underlying biology you will get blindsided hard.

When you are ready you will find the Red Pill.

[–]elayile -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My GF and I are self-aware, and we understand where we mesh well and where we don't mesh well. That's why we strive to improve our relationship. A presumption of distrust is not conducive to building stronger relationships; rather, your viewpoint is corrosive to the creation and maintenance of healthy partnerships.

Sidepoint: I've been cheated on before, but this experience did not lead me to deny the possibility of respectful and stable relationships. In other words, I'm not some naive kid who has never had his heart broken.

Also, I don't buy your biological-deterministic claim. I've read my fair share of E.O. Wilson (along with other sociobiologists), and I don't know of any legitimate theory that suggests that my GF would be predisposed to cheat. In addition, sociobiological claims are subject to significant criticism and scrutiny. Finally, even if your claims about "sexual value" are true, I'm not an unattractive guy myself.

[–]Subtletorious 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I said nothing about cheating.

However, despite your politically correct rhetoric, I'm seeing shades of Red Pill in your thinking. Your confident about your looks being high enough to maintain her attraction. That's Red Pill you cis-het mysoginist shitlord.

Edit: You don't like fatties. Total boner killers. That's Red Pill. You're welcome.