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A corp theft (self.Eve)

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[–]khaymus 690 ポイント691 ポイント x7 (223子コメント)

I know the Eve community, and I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I hate people like OP. I can't stand people who build up trust/create friendships/form bonds and then just break them all over money.

You had a beautiful thing. You had friends, you had a corp that was all working together towards something awesome. You were a leader and your actions were positively growing people in RL. (the eve mail about the guy who learned so much from you was really heartbreaking to me).

Why throw all of this away? So you can post on reddit about how cool your heist was? How this corp of people was so stupid and you are super smart and stole a whopping 20 bil? That makes no sense whatsoever when you compare it to what you had.

Oh, and guess what. These people are not stupid for trusting you. You have to take a leap of faith to trust someone and work with them long term...there is nothing stupid about that.

Also, some of your chats show the type of person you are. You thrive off of other people's discomfort. That is a really sad and pitiful thing to get enjoyment from.

ANYONE who says "m8 its a videogame" is almost always a huge doucher. It wasn't just a video game when you spent DAYS building relationships with people to scam them. It wasn't just a video game when you taught them how to PVP and rose the ranks of the corp to be a leader. It wasn't just a video game when you went onto an internet forum and bragged about stealing money from people who chose to trust you. But as soon as someone doesn't like how you play the game, it is all the sudden "just a video game".

No, you can't have it both ways. Live with the fact that you hurt these people. Not only in game, but also in RL. You hurt these people so that you could profit some money and get some short term enjoyment out of it. And what did you give up? Potential long term relationships....an amazing feeling of achievement when you brought up this group of miners and turned them into something even bigger.

All of this for money and a very short term feeling of superiority.

Well, grats on the heist OP. When the money is gone and you move on to find another "stupid" corp to hurt, I hope this short term feeling of enjoyment is worth it.

tl;dr: No I am not in the corp you just stole from. Yes I am mad bro. I hope the internet tears you collect keep you warm at night.

edit And now that I think about it, the Eve community needs to stop making these people think they are really great social manipulators. Guess what, he had better skills and assets than this corp that needed help. It isn't hard to do what he did. He promised help and then basically just played the role of a good corp mate. He did whatever any other normal person would have done if they were loyal to the corp. He just decided to be a dick and steal all of their stuff. Nothing special or hard about that :/

edit 2 Whoa, when to work out and came back to this. I really appreciate the gold, but moreso, I appreciate the fact that the community in large feels this way. I mostly play solo, so maybe I have the wrong impression of the eve community....so thanks for showing me that there are just as many good people out there as there are bad. (if not more). Now I need to go figure out what this gold stuff does. Fly safe everyone :D

[–]TheNet_ 135 ポイント136 ポイント  (50子コメント)

You're going to be downvoted to hell but I agree with you. I love how free eve is and there's no way behavior like this should be regulated but it still makes me sad (not surprised, just sad) that there are people that heartlessly betray newbies like this. I would have enjoyed this story more if it had ended in OP returning everything as a lesson of what can happen when you put too much trust into one person.

[–]AllokitCaldari 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (7子コメント)

You're going to be downvoted to hell

annnnddd... it ends up at the top

[–]TheNet_ 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (4子コメント)

honestly didn't expect that.

[–]DJfunH8RWAFFLES. 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

it was a BRAVE reddit CTA

[–]MagusUnionSite scanner 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup, Promoting classiness and fair play to all corners of the galaxy!! 7o

[–]Tangent5Black Legion. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

classy)))))))))

[–]JayRizzo03Test Alliance Please Ignore 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ditto.

[–]nocbl2Iron.Guard 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

counter-counter hivemind strategies

reddit is weird

[–]cayne 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha, yeah that's Reddit I guess.

Did the same with my earlier post. Wrote: "This is going to get down-voted". Received 21 up-votes instead X)

I have to try this in r/pics and see if I make the frontpage :)

[–]khaymus 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (26子コメント)

Agreed. I am already getting the hate mail from the classic eve community. "blah blah eve is harsh" "blah blah get a life" "blah blah is am a super elite space pirate who manipulates everyone muahaha"

I am glad everyone can play the game how they want, but yea, unfortunately there are heartless people who will prey on the weak and not care. :(

[–]SochinzPandemic Legion 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I come from a "classic" pirate background (m0o), but I always looked down on corp thefts in general. Sure, EVE is harsh - and it should be. But people who get their rocks off cultivating "friendships" for the sole purpose of robbing them and ruining their fun are basically sociopaths. Part of the fun of EVE is knowing you won't be protected from those people, but it is still fucked up.

[–]tylo 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I remember a guy on comms/forums in TEST or B0rtHole more specifically I think who bragged a theft.

He was an intern with a company. Some of the main employees played Eve and he played with them.

I do believe he was no longer working there when he did this, but he said he stole a bunch of shit from them. It made it even worse, to me, because he knew these people in real life.

[–]sdre -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eve is real. He was there.

[–]ImSpurticus 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is isn't preying on the weak. This is taking a group of people who are looking for friendship and using that to make the game unpleasant for them. Preying on the weak is using your superior firepower to destroy them - that I'm okay with. Making people think you're their friend when you only really want to make their lives miserable is shallow.

[–]EHRP 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck the hate mail, look at how much love you've received already.

[–]cinyCaldari -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

who will prey on the weak and not care

you see the reason is - most people don't really care about eve that much. If you stole everything I own in eve I wouldn't give a fuck. it's a game for fucks sake.

[–]hugolino 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

that is how YOU see eve. other people do take pride in what they achieve, in the corp they are a part of, or the friendships they find. their way of playing is different form yours, but that doesn't make it less valid or their feelings less real when someone they consider a friend betrays them.

[–]Tangent5Black Legion. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure they do, but if you think someone's your friend because he joined your online spaceship guild then you've got something wrong with you. The problem lies with the victim 99% of the time

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]Dannico 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Don't be so unbro, bro. This oldbro scammed his newbros bros, which makes him the unbroiest of bros in all of space. He could have had bros4life but he threw it all away, bro.

    [–]cinyCaldari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm sorry bro, I don't know what came over me. Just sayin' bros on the internet are not bros until they stick their dick in fire for you (literally, on cam).

    [–]thedohCaldari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Since you're so unattached to your Eve shit, can I have your stuff?

    [–]cinyCaldari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    CCP would suspect RMT or something, but we can meet up in space and blow some of my shit up! (or your shit, depending on the circumstances).

    [–]khaymus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Maybe it is time for a new hobby if you don't care about the one you currently have?

    [–]cinyCaldari -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I didn't say I don't care about eve. I said I don't care about loosing all the stuff I own in eve... And it you're attached to virtual possessions then maybe you're the one who should rethink his priorities...

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]xiaodown -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Just to try to explain the other side of the coin... you know that rush that you get from good Eve PVP?

      Some of us got it from stealing.

      [–]TheNet_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yep, and some people get it from murder (obviously comparing a kumquat to a football-stadium-sized grapefruit but you get my point).

      [–]thedohCaldari -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Some of us got it from stealing.

      Anti-social behaviour shouldn't be applauded. Yes, you get your kicks by stealing from people. It's amoral behaviour.

      [–]Jazzy_JoshCaldari -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      These people are not stupid for trusting you. You have to take a leap of faith to trust someone and work with them long term...there is nothing stupid about that.

      Small steps. You don't give someone 20B in assets off the start. I don't care that he trained the corp. He was in no position to actually be trusted and that corp's CEO is a dumbfuck. You especially don't fucking trust someone new who says they have a JF alt without checking the API and asking them to log in.

      Sure taking a leap of faith is fine. Doesn't mean you have to do it over the vent of a volcano instead of a 2 inch deep gap.

      [–]zenstic 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      That's where I lost some of my pity on the CEO, i thought he joined under the guise of being a noob?

      If someone joins, acts like a noob, then has amaze balls pvp skills and a JF alt the fucking giant red alarm sirens should be wailing!

      [–]TheNet_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Me > I just re joined eve and was thinking I should join a corporation

      could go either way

      [–]zenstic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No doubt it's ambiguous, and OP may have left out some conversations that would sway things the other way.

      However, while I don't play eve like OP does, I have to acknowledge that plenty of people do, and the CEO in this situation is very much to blame for forgetting that.

      It comes across to me that there were plenty of clues dropped that should have alerted the guy, but he never picked up on it.

      [–]khaymus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Agreed. I think the biggest lesson to learn here for the CEO is to trust people, but only so much at a time. Good point!

      [–]endeavourlLegion of xXDEATHXx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You don't give someone 20B in assets off the start.

      This. I wouldn't give OP more than 100-200 mil of my assets. Only essentials.

      But then again i wouldn't be in a corp like that ;)

      [–]lolredditorPilot is a criminal 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      So I typically enjoy a good heist story.

      This was not a good heist story. Good heist stories are where a player infiltrates a well established group and especially when it's a part of a war effort of some kind where there's revenge involved. Those groups can typically make it back, have assets elsewhere, etc. Guiding hand social club or w/e, any time TEST loses it's cap collection, or any time there's a WH heist, those are hilarious because they're either done as a part of sabotaging an enemy group and in the end it actually has little effect - TEST isn't butthurt about thefts, and WH corps can make back whatever was lost relatively quickly.

      This wasn't like that. It was being a part of creating a group to help newbies, and then taking all the newbies stuff before they got on their feet enough to do anything. Heck, the leader is worried about a 4b null payment. These also weren't 'dumb as bricks'...they were just new, and the older ones just hadn't gotten a chance to experience much in the way of PVP(which believe it or not is completely understandable because it's extremely hard to just wander in to it if you don't know anything....When I first tried solo roaming I went nearly a week before I found a fight where either the enemy didn't just run away or the group was too big for me to bother trying). They were more than willing to pvp when given the chance.

      Really the only bad thing for these guys is that they probably aren't redditors so didn't know about HERO...it would have been easier for them if BRAVE was still in low, but with them separated out to null newbies need a way to find out about them.

      In the end...it's still good that there are guys playing the villain. Otherwise who knows? It might have taken some of those guys years to get to a WH and experience a real corp theft!(like...when they had the SP to be effective in a WH...). It really was harsh on those guys, but this is the kind of interaction that's lead to eve how it is - super organized groups with api key checks, etc. What would have been the real tragedy is if they met hardly any conflict/resistance or folded to the first wardec.

      [–]RonUSMCTest Alliance Please Ignore 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      or they just leave the game....

      [–]miguidotcomTest Alliance Please Ignore 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      TEST isn't butthurt about thefts

      Its not about the money, its about who steals it. Money is replaceable, but when someone that you consider friend during months pulls a theft or something like that is like he is selling everything just damn too cheap, so its definitely underwhelming from a morale point of view. Some people burn their bridges on their way out when they end tired of everything, like if that was an excuse.

      With time, you see that it wasn't a big price to pay to get rid of people that in reality you don't want them around once you see their true face, so thats the bill for getting rid of some people.

      [–]chrispy_baconGuristas 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Twice I have joined corps to scam them out of billions of isk. Twice I have gained friends who I was unable to steal from and lost everything dying by their sides.

      [–]sureillberightthereBrave Collective 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      that's called "being a normal human being"

      [–]khaymus 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You are a good person :)

      [–]4gen7-smithCaldari 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I took hundreds of millions of isk from the corp wallet while in the process of leaving. I had about 50 mill worth of bpos locked in a pos and since I was going my separate way, I wanted them back.

      Several days after mailing the ceo and getting no response, I emptied the corp wallet. A couple of days later I got my bpos back so I returned all the isk.

      [–]MrDTDBrave Collective 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Your life is an 80's comedy.

      [–]Dont____Panic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Hey bros, I found a guy who isn't a sociopath here. ^

      Cheers!

      [–]miguidotcomTest Alliance Please Ignore 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      WHAT? KILL HIM!

      [–]ZorkamorkAmarr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Jesus christ, a sociopath, for taking fake money in a space video game.

      [–]Dignitude 73 ポイント74 ポイント  (21子コメント)

      I have to agree. Putting trust in other people is a natural part of the human condition, and abusing and cynically manipulating the trust others put in you is by definition the behavior of a psychopath. I don't think I nor any of my close friends would ever pull this kind of thing.

      That this happened in a game world doesn't really change anything, a good amount of the time I spend with my irl friends is spent playing games, but our social interactions don't suddenly not matter or have consequence during that time. If they were in an opposing fleet and blew me up that's no problem, that is the game, but a betrayal of trust is something else completely.

      [–]khaymus 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      ding ding ding! Thanks for understanding my post. :)

      [–]cayne 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (17子コメント)

      I don't think I nor any of my close friends would ever pull this kind of thing.

      Exactly. And if he pulled off something like that in rl (like stealing some friends shit), it wouldn't be worth much, but he would lose all this friends - nobody does that.

      I'll go on a limp and say that guys like him do not have too many rl friends.

      THIS is going to get down-voted, but had to get it out.

      [–]Sodaholic -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      You can't say that.

      The persona you present when you have anonymity isn't going to be the persona you'll show when you're going to be held accountable for your actions.

      [–]Andoverian 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      But which persona is the real one? I would argue that the real persona is the one you show when you think no one is watching, or when you are anonymous. If you are only a good person when there is some accountability for your actions, you aren't really a good person.

      [–]Nodonn226Guristas 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      But it is the real you when you don't fear some consequence. This guy's real persona, deep down, is apparently a dick.

      [–]ShaqsquatchPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No, this is the role he's playing in a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Cripes, I don't understand how hard it is for some people to understand that. Some people like to play the bad guy, that doesn't make them evil IRL.

      [–]thesprunkBearded BattleBears -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Is it the "real" you though? No. Of Course not.

      There is no action without consequence, however small, however anonymous.

      The actions we perpetuate while free from recourse do not identify our "true" selves, only our primal urges, and we are more than our primal urges, or we wouldn't give a shit about things like friendships and moral courses of actions.

      While playing a video game such as eve, we are able to indulge in such urges, and it should be understood that everyone else can and often will as well. It's an outlet. Not real life. And when we get shorted by the actions of others like this, it is done with the understanding that this is an imaginary sandbox. It should help you grow in and out of the game.

      TL;DR: "Well you wouldn't do that in real life!" No, of course not. That's the point. This heist WAS dickish (and breaks my "scam the pilot for their hubris, not the player for your amusement" code). But it shouldn't be against any official rules.

      [–]thedohCaldari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Is it the "real" you though? No. Of Course not.

      It's the persona he chosen to share with real people. How else should we gauge him?

      [–]thesprunkBearded BattleBears -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      To judge an in game "persona" on equal terms and merits as a person in real life is an exercise in cognitive dissonance, even if you personally believe that people shouldn't behave any differently in a game/when anonymous than they do in real life.

      It should be understood that a lot of people, often including the developers themselves, consider games to be an escape or distraction from IRL, where we have the freedom to do or be something else.

      So to answer your question directly, judge that Persona as an entity unto itself, and assume that it is not a direct reflection of the person as a whole, but merely a part - and of which and to what extent, you have no legitimate way of knowing. The same can be said for the actions/words of a reddit "persona" as well.

      EDIT: Just for clarification, I'm not Defending OP necessarily. What "his persona" did was a dick move imo, but purely because it was directed at newbros. I am/was merely pointing out that just because someones a dick in game doesn't necessarily mean their a dick IRL, although it's easier to just say "what a dick" and move on. lol

      [–]zander93_Minmatar 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      in game persona != rl persona

      you should know this if you play eve online of all games.

      [–]thesprunkBearded BattleBears 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Indeed. Some people don't like that truth and want their hands held at all times. EVE is not the kind of game that offers curated comfort and peace for people to retreat from IRL to. It reflects the cold harshness of space, and the perseverance and trials of the people in it to overcome that. that's part of what makes EVE such a rich experience, and why it builds such rich relationships and engagements with people.

      OP's heist rubs me the wrong way. But it's still a part of the eve experience.

      [–]OMGimaDONKEY 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      this is the excuse people use to excuse themselves for acting like a prick

      [–]endeavourlLegion of xXDEATHXx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'll go on a limp and say that guys like him do not have too many rl friends.

      https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/2t7zun/a_corp_theft/cnx5fd1

      [–]mr_throwz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      and abusing and cynically manipulating the trust others put in you is by definition the behavior of a psychopath.

      This is not by definition the behavior of a psychopath.

      [–]Tangent5Black Legion. -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      manipulating the trust others put in you is by definition the behavior of a psychopath.

      HA OH MY GOD HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU WALKED IN FRONT OF TRAFFIC RETARD

      [–]lordbob75Overload Everything 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm with you from the perspective that most scams like this happen to really terrible corps, whereas this one sounded like they had some potential to be better. Was a good scam, but hurts to see it happen to what might have been (maybe still could be) a great corp.

      [–]Accujack 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      the Eve community needs to stop making these people think they are really great social manipulators. Guess what, he had better skills and assets than this corp that needed help. It isn't hard to do what he did. He promised help and then basically just played the role of a good corp mate.

      Worth repeating, because just the environment in Eve puts you halfway toward pulling a con like this off. Everyone in Eve has an honest face, you can't read their body language, you can't really check their background. To really enjoy the game, people like immersion... if you're immersed, a lot of the safeties and checks you'd do in RL aren't there. You're easier to deceive. Most people know never to trust a voice on the phone they've never met in person, but we do it all the time in Eve.

      "In the old days, a con man would be good looking, suave, well dressed, well spoken and presented themselves real well. Those days are gone because it's not necessary. The people committing these crimes are doing them from hundreds of miles away." - Frank Abagnale, Jr.

      [–]cogswickPandemic Legion 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And now I'm going to be watching Leo all night.

      [–]larowinPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They could have noticed that he didn't give them a full API key.

      [–]coelomateDutch East Querious Company 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Thank you for posting this. The potential for betrayal, destruction and theft adds depth to EVE, but there are real people behind the keyboard, and motive matters a lot. Nuking corps for the hell of it doesn't strike me as praiseworthy, it strikes me as sadism.

      [–]ShaqsquatchPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It wasn't for the hell of it, it was for a pretty solid profit, i.e. what he set out to do before even joining the corp in the first place.

      Are we supposed to not suicide gank freighters now because there's a real person flying it?

      [–]ZorkamorkAmarr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Nuking corps for the hell of it doesn't strike me as praiseworthy, it strikes me as sadism.

      So when you pvp, costing other players tons of money in losses, are you 'doing it for the hell of it' too? He did it to make money.

      [–]FilterAccount69 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      They brag online because this is not something you can brag about in real life or claim as an accomplishment to anyone outside the game. If you list this as an accomplishment in real life, you spent hours of time gaining peoples' trust and helping them overcome their fears to accomplish their goals only to steal from them later on people will question your character and brand you untrustworthy.

      That is why these people have to brag online. When you have to brag online about things to strangers about things you can't brag about in real life it's because you seek validation for your shameful actions. When you then try to rationalize your behaviour by saying it's only a game, these people deserved it, I am teaching them a lesson they will be better off now it becomes apparent that you are grasping onto straws; if you did something good there would be no need to defend yourself.

      And like you said Khaymus, OP can't just turn around and say it's a game when OP has not been treating it that way. Own up to your actions, stop trying to defend yourself and be open to judgement because OP deserves to be judged.

      I'm glad someone gave you gold for your post khaymus, have a nice day.

      [–]Shadowrunner32 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Well I couldn't brag about anything I did in a video game outside of game. Most people just have their eyes glaze over.

      Unless you are applying to a game company or talking to other gamers, nobody cares that you led a successful wow guild or organized mining ops.

      [–]Jandor01Minmatar 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      no one cares about my mining ops :(

      [–]private_metaGallente -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Managing big eve corporations is something that you could put in your cv depending on the company you apply to.

      [–]neilfarted 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      ANYONE who says "m8 its a videogame" is almost always a huge doucher.

      I could not agree with you more. I know I'm just a newbro and whatever, but I think people that pretend that the way they play video games says nothing about what kind of person they are, are sadly deluding themselves.

      [–]JayRizzo03Test Alliance Please Ignore 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Funny, I think people who believe they can make judgments on a person's mental flaws or lack there of based on how they play a video game are deluding themselves.

      [–]neilfarted 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I agree. I don't think our positions are mutually exclusive.

      [–]Dannico 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well this is not true. In real life I am a sociopathic misanthrope who hates people but in EVE I'm actually quite benevolent.

      [–]villianzTest Alliance Please Ignore 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Get rekt OP. I completely agree with you, but it's a part of the sandbox. There are dicks in RL therefore there are dick in EVE.

      [–]Originalfrozenbanana 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yep. I don't like the dicks in RL either. Just cause you have the freedom to do something doesn't mean you aren't a douche when you do it.

      [–]Fozra_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yep - the difference is that OP thought being a dick in EVE made him cool. Nope. Just a dick.

      I get scamming Jita, preying on people's lack of understanding etc, but you have to be a special type of arsehole to talk to a bunch of people over comms who trust you and appreciate your help, then just take all their hard work because "just a game m8".

      [–]Shadowrunner32 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Eve is much worse than irl in regards to scammers, because game lacks mechanisms to punish scamming.

      [–]thesprunkBearded BattleBears 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      It doesn't lack the mechanics. There are plenty of ways to deal with scammers and scum in eve. Just because the admins wont do it for you (and they shouldn't) doesn't mean the community can't deal with scammers.

      It's been over 10 years, it's pretty successfully dealt with scammers. They still exist sure, but that reinforces the need to do due diligence and have your act together.

      [–]stoplossx 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      The absolute worst that can happen to them is what... having to start a new disposable character? Having bad things said about them on the forum? Having to buy another character with the spoils of the scam? There is jack shit people can do.

      [–]thesprunkBearded BattleBears 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Lol. No. Eye for an eye is not how you deal with people like this. That's approaching the problem in entirely the wrong way. Again, it's not about making scammers extinct, and it's not the developers job to go around punishing people because someone gave someone else a sad for not playing the game the way they wanted.

      It's about having your act together and learning to operate effectively in such a way that you don't get scammed/awoxed, and that if you do, that it doesn't break you. (not all eggs in one basket). That's part of the nature of eve; our rich and amazing community was born out of a sandbox that reflects the cold harshness of space pretty well. Unfortunately this sometimes means people gotta learn the hardway.

      Is pulling shit like this on newbros cool? No. Should it be "illegal"? Morally maybe, but not by mechanic/design. Name and shame the people that do this, blacklist them, and most importantly do your part to build an organized and effective community within your corp/alliance that does due diligence on recruitment and management of assets and most importantly gives a shit about each other and spreading the workload around (to avoid burnout).

      I speak as someone that started a corporation and helped build a corporation in eve that I'm quite proud of (full credit to my current CEO, who bares more credit than I do, along with all the other bros that have been there short and long to make it happen), full of people I openly admit to be IRL friends. We're less than 500. And yet we've had supers and blinged out marauders awoxed, spies that have ruined ops and even general dickbads being dickbags kicking us when were down and evicting us from our short stint in a wormhole etc etc. Shit happens, and it's made us all the stronger for it. Our corp is a great group of people that has each others backs and a culture that results in us having a lot of fucking fun, and this is in large part due to the "lesser" players of eve that have been dicks to us along the way, from alliance leadership, to individual outsiders with a grudge.

      If it weren't for the omnipresence of people being dicks in all manner of ways, I seriously doubt we'd be near as involved in the game, with each other, or helping each other out. Not because we're bad people, or that we revel in it, but because we know our relationships and principles have been tried by fire.

      Or maybe I'm playing the game wrong. Maybe I should be like "Eh, it's just a game, who cares", but I doubt people with that kind of mentallity find themselves enjoying eve and the people in it like me and my bearbro's do.

      [–]stoplossx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That has nothing to do with what I was saying. I agree with most of your post but we were talking about game mechanics to deal with the scammers and awoxers directly. There are none. You can try and keep yourself safe and do as much preventative maintenance and have security up the wazoo but you can't do jack when they hit you except say they scammed or awoxed on the forum. Even that at its absolute worst point just means they have to get another disposable character to run more scams.

      How about the ability to freeze a corp members assets in an Outpost? That is something at least.

      [–]thesprunkBearded BattleBears 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Ah, I see what you mean.

      How about the ability to freeze a corp members assets in an Outpost? That is something at least.

      That has more potential for abuse than not though, don't you think? Although I feel like the nuance of that hinges on the much bigger elephant in the room of structure and corporation management and the nightmare that is roles, titles, etc etc.

      But that's part of the problem with introducing mechanics like that; there are plenty of things that, when used for the "moral good", could help address the issue, bu what about when people use those mechanics to be dicks or in their scam/awox/fuckery schemes?

      EDIT: I Agree though, mechanics such as that? Those are worth discussing and possibly implementing. I'm just not sure what they would be, or if they would do more harm than good.

      [–]cayne 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Just read the first sentence and I'm with you.

      [–]Vulpes181WAFFLES. 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Completely agree. Eve is a sandbox, and you can choose what to do. Some may join such a corp to just get an "easy" 23B. Others may get their kick out of teaching a bunch of highsec carebear noobies how to pvp and live in null, and slowly build a corp that may one day accomplish something. OP had those 2 opportunities, he chose the former. And in my eyes, be it ingame or IRL, it's a dick move.

      Eve is just a videogame, but if you play Skyrim for a week, building a character and spending hours of your life doing that, and I simply delete your save, you'd also be pretty mad. Who knows how long that corp was planning this nullsec move.

      [–]Shadowrunner32 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They weren't stupid for trusting him, but for blindly trusting him. A full API on both characters plus background checks looking at his kb and wallet API would have solved all this. Requiring collateral on the contracts would solve it too.

      Instead, they gave over 20b isk to someone they only knew for a few weeks. Which is stupid.

      [–]ScrototeTest Alliance Please Ignore 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      But the possibility of these kinds of scams happening is what makes the game fun. You can still be friends with people you scam since both of you should realize you are just playing a game and scamming is part of the fun....

      I'm just a low SP noob, btw. I have maybe 4 months of game time. But I just think the stuff that OP did is super interesting and a big draw to the game.

      [–]SneakyFloorMop 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Just curious why on earth you would want to be friends after someone steals from you? I see this all the time"it's just a game IDE have a beer with him" well of some guy who I thought was my friend for a couple months or years decides to steal all my shit in a game I enjoy why'll earth would I want to go have a beer with him? "Haha you really screwed my out of all my isk, jolly good show"

      [–]DJfunH8RWAFFLES. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      for the cost of bankrolling your wall-of-text posting for the next four months, you people could have given these poor folks a PLEX!

      [–]JustAGamerA 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Hi, I just was talking with the ceo of the corp that got robbed and it seems like they have recovered. So there is some light at the end of the tunnel in this story.

      [–]KatalciaPandemic Legion 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      he spent WHOLE DAYS building deep relationships with random highsec scrubs, what kind of a heartless monster could betray that for only a free supercarrier?!

      [–]Ranamar 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      The sad thing about this particular one is that he had a heartwarming story about teaching newbies to have a spine... and then the story ends with, "but instead of helping them on to the next step, I stole all their stuff."

      [–]ShaqsquatchPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's not his job to coddle high sec carebears. If he wanted to he could have, he didn't and I don't blame him.

      [–]synn89 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think the spying and betrayal part of Eve is actually pretty interesting. You just won't ever know if person A in corp B is a spy for another corp giving out intel. And even the corp that planted the spy can never know if the spy has become a double agent. This kind of "real life" game interaction adds an element to Eve you just don't see in other video games.

      But what hits the "wrongness" key with this scam is that the scammer basically took a leadership and mentor role in the corp. This is something that can be done well. For example a spy can become a well known FC in a corp and at a critical moment turn the tables in a fleet op. But it takes a certain talent to pull it off with tact where everyone involved goes "Holy shit, that was awesome" as their fleet and towers burn.

      [–]ignitiousNo Holes Barred 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      You're entitled to your opinion, however I'd ask you consider an alternate perspective.

      Eve has branded itself as an environment prone to this behavior. People can behave like people with repercussions limiting themselves to in game assets (assuming no one makes death threats, doxxing, etc which are illegal in real life anyways). Eve is one of the very few places where someone can actually play a villain. In many games where you play "the bad guy" the content you receive still has it's supporters and your adversaries are suspiciously silent as you squash them. In Eve you can make real enemies that can brood and actively hate you. If the community is mature (and it largely is) the hate is limited to in game (source: fanfest - where entrenched hatreds will have beers... yes there are exceptions, but they are the minority).

      I think your opinion has a place in Eve and that's fine. Just realize that the ability to do things like this inspire content. More than anything I'm impressed with how well his mark took it.

      [–]khaymus -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      I agree, I like the fact that you can be a bad guy in Eve. I think it really helps the game overall. My point was never that this type of thing should not be in the game....my point was that I don't like the people who play this role.

      I think it is several factors that lead me to dislike this certain type of bad guy in Eve.

      1 - There are not sufficient systems in place to punish this type of gameplay. For example, if I like to explore...I can go do that...but people can punish me by ganking me or setting up traps. If I like to mine, again, people can punish me. In many aspects of this game, there are concequences to the actions you take.

      In this case, this guy played the villian and stole money from a corp. What can they do about it? How was he ever in danger the entire time? If he is caught? Oh well, just try again later....if he succeeds, he makes off with a ton of money and the corp is just left to deal with it.

      I think there should be some type of system in the game where you can socially rate someone as a bad guy or not. I am not a game designer, but I wish there was some way for the corp to ensure society knows this guy is an asshole....so furture corps can be warned.

      2 - His choice of target really rubs me the wrong way. I personally know of two RL friends who have quit the game because of getting scammed. These "villians" will drive away new people when they don't really understand what is going on. Their impression of the game is that all of the old dogs that have all of the skills and assets are just taking advantage of the new guys to make more money. This will make a lot of people quit I think.

      Again, these are just my opinions...but mostly #1 is what makes me angry. What do these corp theives put on the line? Certainly not their reputation. The community makes these guys seem like heroes when they rob the new guy. If there was risk involved for the scammer, then I might appreciate this a little more...but right now, you lose nothing if you fail.

      [–]CaptainNeuro 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      As to the first point, there are multiple systems of consequence in place.

      Firstly, any competent corp that's recruiting will do some research into applicants. The information is surely out there if they choose to look for it. As such, that character is in theory potentially blackballed, causing the training time on it to be somewhat diminished, as this (in theory) greatly diminishes the pool of targets. Now there is no SP loss upon death, this is the ONLY situation in game where game time can essentially be 'wasted'.

      Secondly, if you know people who were driven away from Eve because of being scammed, then they were never going to last anyway.

      This will make a lot of people quit I think.

      You think incorrectly. The game is growing year on year and always has, suggesting that whatever goes on does more good than harm. Those that leave, as previously said, are acceptable losses as they would never have stayed the moment something bad happened to them.
      This corp doesn't sound like it was full of week-old players. It was full of stupid players with money. They're the best targets.

      For somebody who 'likes the fact you can be a bad guy in Eve', you have a fantastically hypocritical standpoint.

      [–]KaarousAmarr 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I agree, I like the fact that you can be a bad guy in Eve.

      Really? Because it sure seems like you hate it.

      [–]stoplossx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Liking the fact that it is possible does not mean he has to like the activity itself.

      [–]KaarousAmarr 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No, but overtly disapproving of a long list of ways of being the bad guy, tends to make people think that he's just paying lip service when he says he approves of being the bad guy as a general rule.

      You're either for player freedom or you aren't. It's as easy as that.

      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

        [–]wolfcry0Jaded. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

        I completely agree, if someone has the capacity to build up relationships like this and then completely screw them over without a second thought, I very much wonder if they have some serious issues in real life

        That type of behavior is pretty much the definition of a psychopath

        [–]evebrah 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Nah, the only reason this isn't universally lauded is because he did it to newbros instead of a WH corp.

        [–]ShaqsquatchPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        They're not even newbros. Newbros don't have 20+b isk in assets. They were high sec carebears.

        [–]CaptainNeuro -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

        Are actors who portray psychopaths and villains terrible people in real life?

        That is literally all this is. When you pvp, somebody loses their ship. Is that cold, callous and heartless?

        When you buy or sell something from the market that's advantageous to you, somebody gives away money. Is it greed to take it?

        The answer to both of these is no, and they are quite literally no different to what OP did.

        It's a game. If you can't separate a game and reality, then you might want to re-evaluate just who it is who has the issue here.

        [–]wolfcry0Jaded. -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        It's a game that people have put a lot of time into, people make actual long term friends in it due to the game

        When you pvp, somebody loses their ship. Is that cold, callous and heartless?

        You're not gaining their trust first and becoming friends and then shooting them, so it isn't nearly as bad

        When you buy or sell something from the market that's advantageous to you, somebody gives away money. Is it greed to take it?

        Same reason as the above, you didn't purposely spend time to gain their trust and then break it on purpose

        [–]CaptainNeuro -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        It's a simple transaction, intended in the design of the game.

        You pay time, they pay whatever they wish. If that's trust, so be it. You're not asking people to trust you. They're choosing to.

        Are you also saying that games such as Resistance are inherently negative experiences? What about poker? A game based almost solely around the perceptions of others and manipulating their actions with it.

        [–]wolfcry0Jaded. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        You're missing the point, none of those other games involve gaining someones trust as a friend/team member through deception and lying

        [–]CaptainNeuro 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Clearly you've never played Resistance or any similar game, as gaining the trust of other players and using that to undermine them is the sole and only goal of 2/5ths of the players.

        In the case of Eve, corp thefts are no different whatsoever. Except instead of playing over half an hour, you play on your own timescale which could be much longer. It is one of many 'always on' aspects of the game that everybody who plays, has played, or considers playing practically cannot avoid being acutely aware of.

        [–]wolfcry0Jaded. -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        It's all about the time frame though, eve takes years to build up

        [–]ShaqsquatchPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        This whole heist was carried out in weeks. The guy had only been in the corp for a few weeks and they trusted him with all their stuff. That's their own damn fault.

        [–]vashtiii -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Are actors who portray psychopaths and villains terrible people in real life?

        A dire example. If you steal shit from someone in EVE, you are stealing from them; you're taking things that they put real effort into acquiring - virtual things, but the effort is just as real. If you lie to someone and betray them in EVE, you are genuinely deceiving them.

        You aren't pretending to be a dick, you aren't acting, you are a dick. Own it.

        [–]ArkonOlacarCONCORD 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        And if you shoot someone, is that vandalism? After all, you've just destroyed something they put "real effort into aquiring - virtual things, but the effort is just as real."

        Of course not.

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]JayRizzo03Test Alliance Please Ignore -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Or, you know. It's a fucking game.

          I very much wonder if they have some serious issues in real life That type of behavior is pretty much the definition of a psychopath

          Fuck you. Who are you to even pretend to claim that.

          [–]endeavourlLegion of xXDEATHXx 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Dr. McRedditor, PhD in Psychology and Medical Sciences (aka nobody).

          [–]desertpolarbearCuratores Veritatis Alliance 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          This. Congrats OP. You were at the helm of potential. People were looking up to you and you could have molded this organisation into anything you wanted, formed real friendships and grown as a person. You were a leader to these people, you had already won, many people would have loved to be in your position right then and there.

          And then you threw all of that away for 20 bil and the thought that Reddit would think you are cool. Weak minded if you ask me.

          [–]ShaqsquatchPandemic Legion 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          He's a waffle and there are plenty of us that think he did a great job with the heist (not to mention this will probably help his chances of getting booshed into PL proper). Something tells me he's enjoying himself in Waffles more than he would running a corp of some random industrial carebears who trusted everything they own without collateral to a guy that had been in corp for a couple weeks (and they didn't even bother to get a full API or look at his kb history).

          [–]panic_laterBrave Collective 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          ANYONE who says "m8 its a videogame" is almost always a huge doucher. It wasn't just a video game when you spent DAYS building relationships with people to scam them. It wasn't just a video game when you taught them how to PVP and rose the ranks of the corp to be a leader. It wasn't just a video game when you went onto an internet forum and bragged about stealing money from people who chose to trust you. But as soon as someone doesn't like how you play the game, it is all the sudden "just a video game".

          Not sure I'd ever have it in me to do something like this, but I have to disagree. EVE is an MMORPG, they key here being "RP": role-playing. Not everyone plays the same style as you or I, and I know not everyone role-plays, but it is part of the game. In the end, you don't agree with it, but he role-played a con, which was intent from the beginning.

          Although you, like many others, abhor this style of play, there are many others, like myself (regardless of whether we engage in it or not), were drawn to the game specifically because something like this is a possibility.

          [–]oriavenSansha's Nation 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          hurr durr, let me share how I gained someones trust and hustled them out of ~$340. It is a shitty character trait, and yes OP is a dirtbag.

          [–]thedohCaldari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I agree with you 100%. People like OP are the lowest of the low and deserve nothing but derision.

          [–]mr_throwz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Oh, and guess what. These people are not stupid for trusting you. You have to take a leap of faith to trust someone and work with them long term...there is nothing stupid about that.

          It's pretty stupid to hand everything you own over to someone that you've only known for 1 month with zero collateral, no matter how you want to cut it. You seem to be of the ilk that it's "not just a video game, and in fact srs bzns rl stuff". Okay here's my question to you: Would you hand everything you owned over to someone you've only known for a month just cuz he "seemed cool"?

          [–]eslahpCaldari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Agree wholeheartedly. OP's story is a great example of eve's toxic community.

          [–]Dannico 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You had a beautiful thing. Why throw all of this away?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmbw8OycJrE

          [–]rickshawcaboose 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          So many wrong assumptions in this. First, what makes you think the person who swindled you isn't already a part of a community that is now enjoying immensely stories of his exploits. Second, the idea that Eve is a game where people can joyfully form life-long relationships of trust and friendship has been long-debunked. The Eve universe is a dangerous place. To pretend it's something else is just simply delusional. Trust comes over TIME. You gave this person roles very quickly and based on pretty flimsy evidence.

          [–]freedenizenPandemic Legion -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          He didn't throw anything away, he joined this corp just to steal from them, he spent a few weeks of time to do it. He already has a group he flies with and is close to, so no, he didn't give anything up.

          [–]TilDuhWAFFLES. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

          just for funsies what security space do you spend you time in eve in?

          [–]khaymus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

          I used to live in Null. Then I moved to High sec, then back to null, then back to high sec.

          I am planning a trip to live out of a wormhole with some friends in a couple of months...so just high sec farming money in preperation of losing everything D:

          [–]TilDuhWAFFLES. 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          and when you were in null what did you primarily do?

          [–]khaymus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          My first time, I just ratted in belts and didn't play much. The second time was with Brave Newbies and I did a little bit of everything. Exploration mostly, but also jumped in fleets and gangs and tried out PvP.

          I am HORRIBLE at PvP, so I wanted to learn some of that. I tired FW but just ended up losing all my ships. I tend to stick to carebearing....

          [–]TilDuhWAFFLES. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          bingo, exactly what i thought.

          side note how do you feel about your former corp training noobs for and encouraging safaris?

          [–]khaymus -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I don't even know what a safaris is?

          [–]TilDuhWAFFLES. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You place a character into a corp and either awox them or steal from them. Or if you are feeling extra spicy both.

          [–]GatesMcTasteBrave Collective 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I believe Eve should be played how you want to, this includes awoxing, scamming, espionage etc. This doesn't mean however that I have to agree with some people's tactics in getting there.

          [–]vexmythoclastGuristas -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          +1 I share your opinion to this. There are always two sides to this however going around and being like "hey haha i stole their moneyz i'm so cool" makes this entire thing even more pathetic.

          We are the players, we are content of this game. As long as we are trying to build up content, there also will be who try to destroy it. In the end building something big up will always out-trump those pathetic tries to destroy it.

          Saved Comment for future cases.

          [–]sk_2013Wormholer -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Thanks.

          Shit like this is part of why I find EVE frustrating as hell. Real life means I don't trust people, and EVE community likes to idolize assholes like this...

          EDIT: Yeah, OP's a fag.

          [–]Magopapi -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I totally agree with you. A game ends when you start to made direct relations with people. I can't diferenciate relations with corporations mates from RL relationships.

          [–]cinyCaldari -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You had friends

          I seriously hate this. no, internet friends are not friends, no, the 500 people you have on facebook are not your friends. they are acquaintances at best and you won't remember most of them by decades end. How many of your eve "friends" would actually help you out IRL? In fact - with how many of your eve friends do you have contact outside of the game? How many of them do you know by name?

          [–]nocbl2Iron.Guard -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          To me, it's a difference of intent.

          If initially intend to create/join a corp with the sole purpose of getting money/tears from people, that's what I'll do. If I want to create a community or join one, I'll do that and do whatever I can to support them. But if I'm already part of a group (this goes for anything, really), unless they really dick me over I won't do anything aside from leave if I decide to.

          And really, so what? It is just. A. Game. Maybe you or other people need to understand that while you invest time and money into EVE, this kind of thing is part of the game. You wouldn't really fault a chess player for using tactics against his opponent. He's just trying to achieve his goal of winning the chess game. The other guy may have spent years practicing, getting ready for this tournament, paid thousands for the airfare/hotels... and he loses. Does he complain, or cry? No rules were broken, he was simply outplayed. The chess player understands that it's only a game at the end of the day, and it doesn't really matter at all whether he won or he lost. If he takes the loss really hard for whatever reason and can't deal with it, it's not his opponent's fault. The guy on the other end of the board was just playing the game.

          [–]Kiita-Ninetails 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          But the way I see it its actually a difference in the way that its being used. From what I can see you can get entertainment in two ways, with something, or at somethings expense. Like Dragonball Z abridged is an example of entertaiment working with something, the abridged is not at the expense of the original series, it enhances it. On the other end of the spectrum, you have things like gay bashing, or laughing at someone getting injured. It is very much at the expense of someone else.

          And using your chess analogy, that too is working with people for the entertainment, not at their expense. If they put the time to be competitive at chess clearly they enjoy chess, both the winning and the losing and are aware it happens. And Chess is actually a poor analogy, since outside of cheating there is no real way to make it at the expense of someone else short of forcing someone who does not like it to play against a world champion.

          Disclaimer: This is all opinion, it may be total bullshit.

          [–]CdnGuyTest Alliance Please Ignore -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Why throw all of this away?

          He might already have that in another corp, but it is a dilemna that people face and is even referenced in one of the older trailers where a guy plotted revenge after being ganked by pirates. He joined their alliance, rose to a position of power and then had to make the choice between keeping his position and getting his revenge.

          I've also known of players who set off to do a corp scam like this and wind up so personally invested in what they've created that couldn't pull the trigger even though they already had those kinds of relationships in an alliance they've been with for years.

          [–]lowrads -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm glad EVE is built around this kind of freedom, but I don't have to praise everything players do. In the sandbox, I am free to be scrupulously honest and fair dealing.

          As much as I like to whelp my space money, I also see nothing wrong with pretending that it's serious space bsns. Quasi-military structure in your alliance? "Aye-aye, sah."

          People that are intent on "making a game of ruining other people's game" not by playing the game in all the ways it allows, but simply by shitting on other players or their enthusiasm, are generally much more frivolous people than the nerds they pillory. Being allied to Goons (and sometimes TEST) can be shitty for this reason alone, even though most of them are lovable little rolls of autism.

          It's a game and I am here to pretend.

          [–]Sunrider84Wormholer -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I wholeheartedly disagree, but I'm happy there are people as passionate about the subject as you. I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I love people like OP, and I wish I could do what he did.

          I'm very happy CCP doesn't regulate stuff like this. It truly makes the game become more than "just a game". That's how I feel, at least.

          [–]stoplossx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I think the worst part is how he posted this and was bragging about it here. It's as though he thinks everyone will applaud him for being a scummy human being.

          Even with corp thefts etc, the 'good' heists are ones done on established corps and huge alliances. Not a bunch of fucking newbies who looked up to you because you helped just start getting them on their feet. Before that could happen the cage came down and now they are pretty much fucked and the corp will almost certainly be dead soon - a few people will probably quit the game and to top it off it was all over 20b.

          I think it should remain a possibility within EVE but don't take it that far and then proceed to hide behind "lol just a game bro" you massive pussy. The amount of time it takes newbies to mine or otherwise get their hands on 20b worth of stuff is astounding, you gained their trust to fuck them over. Assets have value in EVE, it's why people shake when they get in to a PVP fight - that isn't a game. The time put in to this, creating that wealth, is not a game. The friendships that you gain and the trust that people place in you is not a game.

          It isn't that your way of playing is technically wrong, but that preying on newbies and the trust of friendships is morally wrong.

          Tl;dr: OP is a shitty person and should stop being the massive pussy he is by hiding behind "m8 its just a game" when people call him on it.

          [–]xXxCREECHERxXxTest Alliance Please Ignore -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Thank you. I don't mind getting robbed, but this is different.

          [–]totemcatcherCaldari -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Nothing of value is lost. Those who retain friendship after the con is revealed are the people worth befriending. No point in upholding a false friendship with incompatible or immature people. In fact, several people thanked him for the ultimate lesson. They are now stronger people.

          Besides, it's not like trust is some naturally occuring, inevitable force which accumulates without scrutiny. It's a social construct often abused and usually taken for granted.

          [–]khaymus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Nothing of value is lost? I believe in the post there is an exact amount of value stated that was lost.

          Also, couldn't he give back the assets and the lesson would still be there? It doesn't make what he did ok because someone grew from it.

          I agree that trust is often times abused and taken for granted...again, that doesn't make it right.

          I can tell you what is absurd. People congratulating this guy and saying well done. Why are we promoting this type of behavior as a community? That makes no sense whatsoever...no one but the bad guys profit from this. Not to mention, I am sure 1 or 2 people have quit the game over this. Arn't we trying to grow this game?

          [–]totemcatcherCaldari 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Going over the statement once again: Nothing of value is lost. The first sentence in a paragraph in response to the topic of what was "had" and "lost": friends, community, et cetera. The paragraph then ends with what was gained. This is not about isk. It's not the prize.

          Also, couldn't he give back the assets

          Non-refundable. The lesson is contingent upon the isk. This story would not be as striking and we wouldn't be having this valuable discussion.

          This is one of the few games where in which this kind of gameplay, social interaction, and life lessons are permitted without ample sugar coating. Lessons about trust, confidence, and hubris are some of the most important lessons stressed throughout history among religions, scholars, and family -- stuff that's difficult to truly comprehend unless you are subject to a scenario where it affects you deeply.

          If people quit over this, again, nothing of value was lost.

          EVE! Accept it!

          [–]JayRizzo03Test Alliance Please Ignore 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Nothing of value is lost? I believe in the post there is an exact amount of value stated that was lost.

          We're talking about ~21 bil. Spread over an entire corp. They can recover from this.

          Also, couldn't he give back the assets and the lesson would still be there? It doesn't make what he did ok because someone grew from it. I agree that trust is often times abused and taken for granted...again, that doesn't make it right.

          According to you. Fortunately, you're not any sort of morality police; the game mechanics allowed it. Emphasis on game.

          I can tell you what is absurd. People congratulating this guy and saying well done. Why are we promoting this type of behavior as a community? That makes no sense whatsoever...no one but the bad guys profit from this. Not to mention, I am sure 1 or 2 people have quit the game over this. Arn't we trying to grow this game?

          I congratulate the OP and gladly. I promote this type of behavior because the fact that Eve is a world where stuff like this can happen appeals to me - even if I never do it myself (although the white knight response in this thread has put the idea in my head to spin up an alt and give it a shot, so who knows). It is conflict. It is villainy. It is interesting. That is why we should promote it.

          Individually, every single pilot in that corp can recover. Whether the corp can recover depends on other things - the CEO, morale of the individual members, etc. And they have learned an important lesson - Eve is not nice. You will suffer loss. Every victory is keenly felt, as is every loss.

          I'm not going to pick apart your parent post - other people have done it better than me. But I vehemently disagree with it, and the fact that you got gold is really disappointing, in my opinion.

          [–]GershBinglanderMinmatar -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I'm with you dude. I've played in little carebear corps like this (and vast coalitions) and it saddens me that there are people out there that do this to nice people.

          [–]CaptainNeuro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          There are no 'nice people' in Eve.

          There are only bastards and food. The trick is to not be food.

          [–]GershBinglanderMinmatar 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          In the AUTZ there are plenty of nice people, there are some amazing, generous people in New Eden

          [–]ImSpurticus -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Totally agree. Getting into a mega corp and stealing some of their stuff for a giggle is one thing. Taking a smaller group of people, faking them into thinking you're their friend and then leaving them penniless in a game were the easiest thing for them to do now is quit is a shitty and childish thing to do.

          Too many people in Eve forget it's supposed to be a fun game for everyone and ruining the game for someone else so you can boast about it online is just unpleasant.

          [–]everydamnnametaken -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You had a beautiful thing. You had friends, you had a corp that was all working together towards something awesome. You were a leader and your actions were positively growing people in RL.

          That is what gets me. He threw away some good guys all for pocket change.

          If it was a large amount of ISK I'd get it, but 20 bil? Fuck dude, you scammed yourself.

          [–]miguidotcomTest Alliance Please Ignore -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Completely agree.

          [–]saeri -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Not sure if to downvote the thread and it's recurrent example of how petty some people can act or upvote to give your post just a little bit more visibility.

          You've warmed my heart today with speaking out like that and I honestly thank you for it.

          [–]DukasoPandemic Legion -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The older I get the more I agree with this. I don't have a ton of free time anymore these days, but when I get an hour or so, I tend to play games like elite dangerous or other games that scratch the itch without all the drama and backstabbing.

          [–]JearikCaldari -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Good post, I'm a fan of good pirate-like stories, this one was not amusing.

          Bottom line for me, is that some player you can't trust or work with has gotten richer while the players that you can you can trust and play with, may quit. I wouldn't even blame them either. Why play a game that has such a negative impact on the psyche.

          I don't care really about the guy gaining 20bil. It's the players we might lose because of it.

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