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On sexism and misogyny (self.AgainstGamerGate)

chainer9999Pro/Neutral が 投稿

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[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (21子コメント)

Honestly, the way that "misogyny" is used these days is pretty much 100 percent bullshit.

I literally cannot recall a single time where the word was used appropriately (as in, to describe hatred against women, not just anything that feminists don't like).

[–]judgeholden72 [非表示スコア]  (20子コメント)

Because it isn't about hatred. That's the "literal" problem. So many internet dudes think their irrational arguments are fine because logic.

You forget the "prejudice against." Ever make a comment about women drivers? Congratulations, that's a misogynistic comment!

The defense is so often "I don't hate women! I love my mom and want a girlfriend, therefore I can't be a misogynist." Which is completely incorrect. It's akin to the guy saying he isn't homophobic because he doesn't fear gay people, he just doesn't think they should marry (or be alive.)

[–]iTomesPro/Neutral [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

I think the issue is that the largest portion of the population seems to view it as the "hatred against women" definition so discourse can get messy if the two sides discussing something are not using the same definitions. Clearing up definitions that have a potential to be unclear is everyones friend here. That said, "misogyny" has basically become "things feminists dont like" in a lot of cases in more recent times, prejudice-definition or not. Honestly, I think the best way to ensure proper discourse is to expect people to clear up why something was actually misogynistic/misandrist/whateveri when making the accusation.

[–]SenatorLebowskiPro-GG [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Clearing up definitions that have a potential to be unclear is everyones friend here

Except for those who profit from this shitstorm, and my oh my, but there's just a lot of people who are profiting right now.

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (17子コメント)

Because it isn't about hatred. That's the "literal" problem. So many internet dudes think their irrational arguments are fine because logic.

Hatred against women is the only sensible definition of misogyny.

The only other "definition" that I've ever heard is "whatever makes feminists uncomfortable".

You forget the "prejudice against." Ever make a comment about women drivers? > Congratulations, that's a misogynistic comment!

There's a term for gender based prejudice.

It's called sexism.

There's no reason to invent a new word that means the exact same thing (especially if the word has another meaning already).

Furthermore, there are plenty of sexist jokes against men as well, so by the definition you're using, it would be inconsistent to say that "misandry don't real" as most feminists do.

The defense is so often "I don't hate women! I love my mom and want a girlfriend, > therefore I can't be a misogynist." Which is completely incorrect. It's akin to the guy saying he isn't homophobic because he doesn't fear gay people, he just doesn't think they should marry (or be alive.)

I've heard feminists complain about this argument at least 1000 times as much as I've seen guys actually making it.

I think you might be suffering from confirmation bias here.

[–]frantzfanonmenonNeutral [非表示スコア]  (10子コメント)

Hatred against women is the only sensible definition of misogyny.

How did you come to this conclusion? How are you defining "sensible"? What makes you an authority on what is sensible and what isn't?

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (8子コメント)

Do you have a better one that doesn't just boil down to "whatever feminists don't like"?

[–]frantzfanonmenonNeutral [非表示スコア]  (7子コメント)

That doesn't answer my question.

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (6子コメント)

Yes it does.

My point was that it was the only relatively commonly used definition of misogyny that makes any sense, since most of the feminist definitions seem to boil down to "whatever I don't like".

[–]frantzfanonmenonNeutral [非表示スコア]  (5子コメント)

Again:

Hatred against women is the only sensible definition of misogyny.

How did you come to this conclusion? How are you defining "sensible"? What makes you an authority on what is sensible and what isn't?

Simply saying something is "sensible" is only saying you feel it's sensible. I thought we were all about reals and not feels?

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

I'm defining "sensible" as "demonstrable and consistent".

The "hatred of women" definition of misogyny is the only relatively common one that fits that definition.

[–]judgeholden72 [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

Here, why don't you call Google and tell them how insensible they're being. Since you're the expert and not, you know, dictionaries.

[–]razorbeamz [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

So then, what's the difference between misogyny and sexism?

[–]Manception [非表示スコア]  (5子コメント)

I've heard feminists complain about this argument at least 1000 times as much as I've seen guys actually making it.

I think you might be suffering from confirmation bias here.

Sure, confirmation bias. You tend to pick up what's relevant to you. You don't seem to like feminists and hear things that confirm this. Homosexuals hear the hate directed at them.

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

This is a clear cut case of the tu quoque fallacy.

Just because I may or may not have confirmation bias about something doesn't mean that I'm wrong to criticize someone else for having confirmation bias.

[–]Manception [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

No, but it does mean that your statement of hearing 1000 times as much complaints about hate that doesn't affect you is very likely a case of confirmation bias and thus incorrect.

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (2子コメント)

I wasn't making a claim though, I was just expressing what I had experienced in response to someone else expressing what they had experienced.

I never claimed that that statement was objective or backed up by evidence, just that it reflected my perception.

[–]Manception [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

And I'm just expressing that you're most likely to not have heard the hate because it doesn't apply to you, and instead your negative view of feminists has filtered out something that confirms what you already think.

[–]KerghanTheTerribleNeutral [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

And I'm just expressing that you're most likely to not have heard the hate because it > doesn't apply to you

Not sure what "hate" has to do with this, the original context was about whether or not it was common for guys to say stuff like "I'm not a misogynist because I love my mother.".

and instead your negative view of feminists has filtered out something that confirms what you already think.

This may well, be true.

I don't believe that I am being significantly influenced by confirmation bias here, but obviously I wouldn't know if I was.

In any case, however, whether or not it's common for guys to say stuff like "I'm not a misogynist because I love my mother." is more or less tangential to main my main argument about the use of the term "misogyny".