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Andreas Antonopoulos is shoadow-banned! (np.reddit.com)

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[–]secret_bitcoin_login 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The original link to his AMA notice. (removed)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2s05js/i_andreas_will_be_doing_an_amaa_at_12pm_est_on/

UPDATE: Image of original text

UNBANNED! https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/554278970670080000

[–]Aviathor 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Confirmed by mod in the comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2s05js/i_andreas_will_be_doing_an_amaa_at_12pm_est_on/cnky9sd

[–]secret_bitcoin_login 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can anyone post an image of the original removed post?

https://i.imgur.com/5ZuoYwu.png

[–]SebastianMaki 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That looks like he's asking for people to act in a way that is pretty much in line with reddit etiquette. This is absurd.

[–]psionides 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Sigh, the buttcoiners are having a holiday today...

[–]secret_bitcoin_login 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes - this is the world where we are the trolls and they are the engaged community.

[–]psionides 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I mean, I agree that the post was rather in bad taste, it immediately sounded to me like "go there and downvote people who disagree with us". But the response should have been to tell him to remove the post, not just outright banning a well known person like Andreas. It's like sending someone to prison for downloading one mp3...

[–]RegulatedByMath 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He is not that well-known outside of bitcoin world. When you spend so much time reading/talking about bitcoin and socialising with other people who are into bitcoin, you are in a filter bubble of sorts.

Ask anywhere outside of bitcoin subreddits who he is, I can guarantee most answers will be "Andreas who?" People who know who he is would have non-zero /r/bitcoin in their posting history.

[–]psionides 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, good point.

[–]AussieCryptoCurrency -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, I agree that the post was rather in bad taste, it immediately sounded to me like "go there and downvote people who disagree with us". But the response should have been to tell him to remove the post, not just outright banning a well known person like Andreas. It's like sending someone to prison for downloading one mp3...

It sounds a bit harsh but considering it was a thinly veiled brigading call to arms, it's probably in bitcoin's interest this shit stops

[–]ebaley 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Who?

[–]psionides 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/buttcoin, a bad place with bad people ;)

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]earthmoonsun 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    this is ridiculous

    [–]Mutt7 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Indeed. From /u/secret_bitcoin_login : screencap of comment in question, I don't see anything wrong with what Andreas said. Nothing he said asked for us to upvote his content. He asked us to weed out the good and bad comments with our votes. Not "upvote my post", which WOULD have been against the rules.

    My reaction to the banning

    [–]SiriusCH 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    He is unbanned now: https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/554278970670080000

    [–]routefire 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes, but his newest comment is still not publicly visible?

    [–]vlarocca 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (22子コメント)

    So the guy who wrote the book on Mastering Bitcoin is banned from one of the sites that has been noted as being most Bitcoin savvy. That's not very smart .

    [–]secret_bitcoin_login 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Trying to keep a cool head: Let's remember that lots of people are temporarily shadow banned and it only takes one mod/admin with a modicum of sensibility to set things right. Lot's of mods are just good rule followers, that doesn't necessarily make them good decision makers.

    UPDATE: /u/hardleft121 has provided a response. (Please do not interpret this link as an invitation to upvote the associated comment. If you follow the link to the comment in this thread, please observe the no-participation rules and do not vote on the linked comment, or other comments in the related thread.)

    [–]tedrick111 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    rofl. I've been shadowbanned for like a year.

    [–]hardleft121 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Just to be clear... I am telling you what the mods are being told is the reason for the ban. I am not speaking for any /r/bitcoin mods. We haven't discussed it that I know of, as of yet.

    [–]NeutralGuy_ 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We haven't discussed it that I know of, as of yet.

    I see you guys are as useful as usual.

    [–]HistoryLessonforBitc 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    He was banned because he explicitly called for vote brigading another subreddit in violation of one of the Reddit site rules.

    I would argue it wasn't especially smart of him to do that.

    [–]BinaryResult 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Do you have more details on this?

    [–]HistoryLessonforBitc 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    http://www.reddit.com/rules

    Don't ask for votes or engage in vote manipulation.

    Andreas posted here asking people to go and vote on comments on his AMA when it happened, which is vote manipulation (brigading).

    [–]110101002 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Lol, reddit is noted as being bitcoin savvy? I've only heard the opposite.

    [–]vlarocca 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    ranked forth for the most popular sites using bitcoin

    [–]110101002 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I guess by that same metric, yahoo is the most finance savvy website.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]notreddingit 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Well they hired a cryptocurrency engineer, so there's that.

      [–]110101002 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Reddit the company may be (I'd rather not get into that), but I was referring to the community here, where the most upvoted thing is "fact".

      [–]btcdrak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      There is nothing smart about r/bitcoin

      [–]Based_gandhi -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      That has nothing to do with his ban. Andreas broke one of five reddit rules and got punished for that.

      https://www.reddit.com/rules/

      [–]Bonezor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yes, he broke a rule. But like someone here said, this is like sending someone to prison for life for sharing one mp3. Surely there are more productive ways to punish an offender.

      [–]Based_gandhi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      He's welcome to register a new account and come back. It takes few seconds.

      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

        [–]secret_bitcoin_login 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        I'm offering $5 to anyone who posts an imgur link to the actual text of the removed post. (found it myself!) Let's look at the source. I'd like to find sense in this.

        How weird is it.. that this ban changes my behavior? Instead of engaging in comfortable conversation I'm asking myself "Am I violating ToS?" with every keystroke. I'm not a happy camper today.

        [–]DoctorDbx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I feel you. Because I also post in /r/buttcoin I purposely do not upvote or down vote in here. All I can do is comment. If I could up/down without worrying about being shadow banned I'd probably write less and vote more.

        And contrary to belief, I do post positive stuff too, but generally only when the discussion is technical.

        [–]Frankeh 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Yeah, I no longer vote at all in /r/Bitcoin threads. I got shadowbanned because I was upvoting in linked /r/Bitcoin threads.

        I thought vote brigading was downvotes only at the time. Admins straightened me out.

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]routefire 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (9子コメント)

          No! Will the AMA still happen?

          [–]Aussiehash 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          The AMA could still go ahead if the IamA mods setup an automoderator rule to approve his posts.

          [–]routefire 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Or he could just create and verify a new account. We need a confirmation from /r/Iama mods.

          [–]turdovski 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Lama?

          [–]routefire 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Incorrect. Llama.

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]rydan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            It will you just won't get to see his answers. Think of him as a friendly ghost watching over us.

            [–]routefire 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            They'd rather remove the AMA.

            [–]livefromheaven 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            They holy bitcoin spirit

            [–]exactly- 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Some troll out there is very happy with himself.

            [–]SebastianMaki 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            What did the post say? It's deleted now.

            [–]hardleft121 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (25子コメント)

            Mod here.

            This is from the top of reddit. He broke their rules. He is banned. No temporarily shadow-banned.

            "They are directing people to upvote and downvote information in their upcoming AMA. This is against our rules."

            • hardleft121

            /u/changetip $10

            [–]blackmarble 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Wow.

            [–]SatoshisGhost 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

            Upvoting for visibility but don't fully agree. Ban him for a day to "punish" him, ok, but you should unban him afterwards. He is one of bitcoin's biggest proponents and this is /r/bitcoin. He is also seemingly very honest, so I bet he probably didn't realize he was breaking the rules, since he doesn't post here all too often.

            [–]secret_bitcoin_login 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            He was banned from reddit.com, not just /r/bitcoin.

            [–]SatoshisGhost 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Wtf.... this is bullshit, but yet the trolls run wild all over this place. Mods really got there heads on backwards.

            [–]secret_bitcoin_login 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Let's be aware of the difference between mods and admins. mods (like theymos, hardleft121, and bashco) can ban and moderate on any subreddit (like bitcoin or iama). Shadowbanning is a sitewide decision that comes from an admin (kn0thing, alienth, jedberg - and a whole crapton of people I barely recognize). This was apparently a decision proposed and approved by site administrators - people who get paid to run reddit, not volunteer moderators.

            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

              [–]changetip 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The Bitcoin tip for 36,075 bits ($10.00) has been collected by CosteaReddit.

              ChangeTip info | ChangeTip video | /r/Bitcoin

              [–]secret_bitcoin_login 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

              Wow. You wanna take your mod cap off and share your thoughts? I find this to be utter bullshit.

              [–]hardleft121 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

              Hey man, goodmorning. Waking up to this! I shared zero thoughts there... trying to communicate information only.

              My mod cap off? He clearly broke rules which he should have known, and deserves some punishment. Not sure why he did that. I like Andreas. I feel like a permanent ban is too strong, assuming this is not a repeated issue with him. I am not aware that it is.

              [–]rr159 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The rules are bullshit. Saying "please upvote for visibility" gets you shadowbanned, but there is a subreddit literally dedicated to raiding youtube videos and that's OK because it's outside of reddit.

              [–]blackmarble 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Heavy is the head that wears the modcap.

              [–]secret_bitcoin_login 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              He said, "top of reddit". That sounds like an admin, not a mod.

              [–]blackmarble 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              That's why I paged kn0wthing below. Alexis O'Hanion himself. He's one of the founders of reddit, believe he is the CEO again and he's notably pro-bitcoin. Doesnt get any higher level of admin.

              [–]secret_bitcoin_login 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              You're right, and I'm a huge fan of Alexis, and he is a supporter (investor) of bitcoin through buttercoin. I just didn't think it was appropriate to shoot to the top when there are lots of paid and unpaid people to sort these things out before they reach him. But heck, if he backs this up I'm going to see what Kevin is up to these days ;-)

              [–]blackmarble 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Rose? He's on reddit lol.

              [–]secret_bitcoin_login 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I feel like a permanent ban is too strong

              I think that's where my frustration lies. Lots of us have been overwhelmed with foolish behavior on reddit and I've considered a few other forums that might have a more rewarding structure... but it really makes me angry to see valid contributors removed while so much low level foolishness carries on unabated. Sure - I agree that he violated the rule (I really don't know if I believe that. He encouraged appropriate voting... I think..), but if the rules don't work, cool heads would improve the rules not punish the users. If reddit is going to march forward successfully they'll need to keep up with the rapid pace of change, not just stick to their guns.

              [–]CosteaReddit[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              woah, thanks for the tip.

              [–]hardleft121 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              welcome

              [–]btcdrak 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Out of interest, what rule(s) did he break?

              [–]HawkEy3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              "They are directing people to upvote and downvote information in their upcoming AMA. This is against our rules."

              [–]AlyoshaV 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              https://www.reddit.com/rules

              The second rule

              [–]i_can_get_you_a_toe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This is from the top of reddit.

              From the tip? It sounds like something from the very tip.

              [–]bruce_fenton 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (9子コメント)

              Shadow banning in itself is weasley - they ban people without telling them they are banned, much less why or with an opportunity to refute. Amateurish.

              [–]psionides 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I always hated the idea too. If this happens to innocent people (and I'm sure it happens all the time) they end up in this limbo where they can't communicate with anyone and won't know what's wrong and why it happened to them (and since they don't know why it happened, it doesn't serve its purpose of deterring people from doing it again).

              [–]Dukekiller 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yeah not worthy of a site like Reddit.

              [–]infected_scab 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              He wasn't shadow banned. He was banned.

              [–]Simcom 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              how do you know?

              [–]RegulatedByMath -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              This is more effective than regular ban in 99% of the cases (mostly spammers). The offender would keep posting without realising they have no impact on the site, rather than promptly make new account to continue.

              [–]PM_ME_YOUR_LANGER 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              no it's actually pretty obvious after an hour or two when you get no up-votes or replies to your posts.

              it's more like reddit using soft power to keep peoples opinion in line and not risk it

              [–]RegulatedByMath 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's not obvious to most bots (most common class of spammers).

              [–]Dukekiller 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              That I understand but the 1% caught in the middle? Collateral damage?

              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                [–]XiamenGuy 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (24子コメント)

                Remember, Reddit can shadowban you for anything it wants and assumes you say. It's not a place for freedom of speech.

                [–]HistoryLessonforBitc 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                He wasn't banned for anything to do with freedom of speech. He was banned for calling for /r/Bitcoin to launch a vote brigade on /r/IAmA, which is explicitly against one of Reddit's few site rules.

                [–]XiamenGuy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                from what everyone is saying. He didn't say it, but alluded to it. Even that can ban you. So you know, be careful what you say. They may ban you for saying something that alludes to a banable offense.

                [–]HistoryLessonforBitc 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Sorry, but that doesn't fly. He was explicitly telling people to go vote on the IAmA and downvote "trolls" (and also bring "tips", encouraging tip spam - which is arguably worse) and he knows (or should know) exactly what is considered to constitute a troll over here.

                He encouraged vote manipulation in another subreddit, i.e. brigading. He broke the rules - one of five cast-iron rules that have been around for years. Reddit didn't like that and banned him. End of story. No freedom of speech implications here.

                [–]XiamenGuy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                whatever. Your comments are downvoted to crap. You can try to act like this shadowban is ok, but one day you'll see a friend hit by one for no reason. It's not the issue of shadowbans, it the issue that people need to understand that this isn't a place you can be free to say what you want or do. Mods know this, I know this, and hopefully this reminds everyone that they have the stick and will use it.

                [–]HistoryLessonforBitc 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I don't care about downvotes. Bring 'em on, because I'm telling the truth here; Andreas broke the rules, one of Reddit's few rules.

                Reddit is, on the whole, very relaxed about what it hosts on its platform, as evidenced it being well known as a hive of racism, misogyny and virtually every kind of other hatred and idiocy known to man, which they are comfortable with. If you want to criticise anyone for not respecting freedom of speech, Reddit is pretty far down the list, and some Bitcoiner factotum explicitly breaking a clear sitewide rule in order to shill for Bitcoin is way down the list as far as free speech concerns go.

                [–]Banderbill 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                He didn't really allude to it. He literally said "elevate the best questions with your upvotes" and "be ready to use your downvotes to thwart their mischief." He quite literally made a post asking for upvotes and downvotes from this community to be used in another sub. That is not alluding to vote brigading, that's outright vote brigading.

                [–]XiamenGuy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Isn't that what reddit says about it's business plan. The good posts/comments get upvoted and the bad ones get downvoted.

                [–]Frankeh 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                He literally said 'Downvote the trolls.'.. But trolls on this subreddit means anyone who isn't giddy about Bitcoin.

                https://archive.today/Dn4Dc

                [–]Simcom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                But trolls on this subreddit means anyone who isn't giddy about Bitcoin.

                Since when?

                コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                  コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                    [–]HonkHonk 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    He broke the rules and was banned for it like countless other people. How is that anything against freedom of speech? It's simple, if you don't like the rules then don't use the site.

                    [–]secret_bitcoin_login 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    This is it. We all choose to use reddit based on the content, site design, moderation, admin, etc. If we don't approve we are free to move on. They have every right to censor anything they choose on reddit - and we have every right to consider how much we're willing to put up with before we move on.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (34子コメント)

                      I wonder if he is regarded as having violated reddiquette for ~"encouraging vote brigading" by suggesting that we downvote trolls in his upcoming AMA? I don't believe that's a valid charge - I also don't believe he did anything to earn a shadowban, but I'm still wondering what might have triggered it.

                      [–]qawsed123456 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (33子コメント)

                      Banning him for vote brigading is perfectly justified.

                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (32子コメント)

                      I disagree with shadow banning someone of proven character because they don't spend their time reading TOS @ Reddit. I'm sure a friendly message would have achieved the same goal without the appearance of having snubbed him. (Sorry. I know my fandom is pouring through.)

                      [–]RegulatedByMath 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      I disagree with shadow banning someone of proven character because they don't spend their time reading TOS @ Reddit

                      This sub spends 24 hours a day complaining how "the elites" get special treatment, or how HSBC gets away with a slap on the wrist because it's too big to jail. Then you guys proceed to ask for special treatment of a semi-celebrity that happened to break the rules.

                      Too funny.

                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      I'm pretty sure there's a substantial difference between knowingly violating laws and not being engaged with the ToS at every site you visit.

                      [–]AlyoshaV 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      https://www.reddit.com/rules

                      It's not like this is some 50 page ToS, it's five fucking sentences

                      [–]Banderbill -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      We aren't talking about some unknown rule, vote brigading is a major rule of reddit and it's one that gets constant exposure. There really isn't a good excuse to not knowing about it.

                      [–]RegulatedByMath -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Baby steps.

                      [–]routefire 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Exactly. Make it a stern warning and post deletion. Most people reading AA's post had no idea it was against Reddit's rules.

                      [–]qawsed123456 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Then maybe they should read the rules of reddit? "Normal" people get shadowbanned for stuff like this all the time, just because Andreas has tons of fanboys doesn't mean he's above the rules.

                      [–]psionides 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      IMHO shadowbanning is wrong in general, not just in this case.

                      [–]clitnubbin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      5 simple rules , that they pm you when you start an account , not that hard to follow .

                      http://www.reddit.com/rules

                      [–]truios 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      I've never seen that PM.

                      [–]Based_gandhi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      This means you're exempted from the rules then.

                      [–]truios -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      On the reddiquette link on that page:

                      Vote. If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.

                      i.e. "Please downvote troll comments."

                      [–]Banderbill 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      He also was asking for upvotes.

                      [–]HistoryLessonforBitc 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      There's a marked difference between just downvoting troll comments that you happen across while normally reading Reddit, and someone going onto a subreddit known for brigading and an "interesting" definition of what a troll is and telling everyone to go and downvote "trolls" on another subreddit.

                      [–]DoctorDbx -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                      He proved his character alright. "Please bring your tips and downvote people who criticise Bitcoin."

                      [–]kinoshitajona 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                      troll != dissenter

                      He said troll.

                      [–]DoctorDbx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                      And the definition of troll is?

                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      from wikipedia:

                      In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

                      interestingly, the kids have a different interpretation:

                      from urbandictionary:

                      One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

                      thoughts:

                      wikipedia (likely the older users) have a concept that a troll is someone who disrupts normal conversation and uses off-topic messages, while urbandictionary (likely younger users) views it simply as people who cause disruption and argument - which isn't always a bad thing.

                      [–]DoctorDbx -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Can you ask a mod to sticky this at the top of /r/Bitcoin, because Everytime I see someone point out a possible negative with Bitcoin around here they're called a troll.

                      [–]bitbubbly 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Provide examples. It sounds like every time you see someone point out a possible negative with Bitcoin, they're also trolling.

                      Examples:

                      NOT A TROLL:

                      Big blocks mean more work for full nodes. A decentralized system is only worth something if it spreads out over many nodes. The current block chain already has 30GB. That means that if you want to create a fresh node, you look at downloading 30GB + 1MB/minute. With x20 that, you would quickly have much more initial download + 20MB/minute. This is little for you and me but I can assure you there are many countries in the world where you would wait a week for the initial 30GB to download if you have only a normal, affordable internet plan.

                      On the up-side this would get us from 3tps to 60tps. So what? 60tps doesn't solve a thing. It would still be laughable. My favorite quote with this regards was Anthony Gallippi in front of the Senate hearing. If you want 20,000tps, you would have (3tps=1MB/minute) 7GB/minute.

                      versus...

                      DEFINITELY A TROLL:

                      Yes it most certainly does. Every day some formerly impoverished Russian hacker wakes up and goes to work stealing your butts. His days used to look bleak, but after stealing hundreds of millions from people who decided it was a brilliant idea to be your own bank, his prospects are looking up. Hey look on the bright side, bitcoin really does solve poverty!

                      HAIL BITCOIN

                      The first comment is insightful critique of Bitcoin. The second is an idiot with an agenda to troll. Examples similar to the first are almost always upvoted in this subreddit, in my experience. Examples similar to the second are downvoted.

                      Hope that helps, kiddo.

                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Your first example is reminiscent of something I might find on HN. Hm...

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                          [–]secret_bitcoin_login 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          I didn't see this anywhere else...

                          An imgur link to the removed post

                          Let's work to quote actual text in our comments rather than attempting to recall the sentiment of what he was saying.

                          [–]blackmarble 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (36子コメント)

                          Paging /u/kn0thing

                          Andeas M. Antonopoulos has been shadowbanned from all of reddit for saying something that could be interpreted as vote brigading prior to an upcoming AMA. It was a slip up, but would we treat a celebrity AMA (say Tom Hanks) the same way? He has said in the past, he spends less time on reddit because of the trolls. I'd rather not see it become a dead forum in the eyes of the bitcoin world.

                          [–]DoctorDbx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (31子コメント)

                          Andreas has been around long enough to know the rules. He is barely a person of note anyway. He deserves his ban IMHO. Asking for tips and calling for downvotes... if you know enough to game the voting system you know enough to be shadow banned.

                          [–]hardleft121 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (26子コメント)

                          This is correct regarding the reason. props. /u/changetip $10

                          [–]totes_meta_bot 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

                          If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.

                          [–]DoctorDbx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (23子コメント)

                          Thanks but my employer forbids me from collecting tips.

                          [–]hardleft121 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                          really? thats a first. props still

                          [–]blackmarble 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                          Literally a paid shill???

                          [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]blackmarble 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            Referring to /u/DoctorDbx

                            He said his employer won't allow him to take bitcoin tips over Reddit. I asked him point blank if he's being compensated for postng on reddit... no response.

                            [–]secret_bitcoin_login 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Yeah, I deleted my confusion before I realized you had responded. I think you're overly aggressive with your question though. I'd rather promote a kind atmosphere for discourse.

                            [–]blackmarble 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            That's fair.

                            [–]blackmarble 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                            The irony of this! Andreas is banned for asking people in the community to help with his AMA (admittedly he went too far) and a person whos employer won't let him accept a bitcoin tip on Reddit, who was been accused of being a hired troll paid by the banks to discredit bitcoin is the hero of the story. Un-fucking-believable!

                            [–]DoctorDbx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Save this for next time someone asks for proof of paid shills.

                            [–]blackmarble -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Point blank question. Do you recieve any form of compensation for posting what you post on reddit? And/or would posting on reddit be in any way considered one of the responsibilities of your job?

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                                [–]blackmarble 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Not sure if joking...

                                [–]HonkHonk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Your supervisor saw this and wanted to acknowledge you for following proper conduct.

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                                    [–]theDewwd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    That's what I thought too.
                                    Read the post from him and thought just like you. But just with the part of asking for tips. Didn't really think of the downvote-rule-thing, even as someone who has also been around on Reddit for quite a time.

                                    But asking for tips? Come on Andreas.
                                    You have done much for the community and the community has always had your back on everything. But directly asking for a tip is just a no go.

                                    It's that classic rule that applies I think: Asking for tips won't get you any. Being a gentleman and not asking for tips may actually get you some.

                                    I didn't support that he wanted tips, I didn't comment on it either - but I knew that this would get him into trouble sooner or later.

                                    I say lesson learned.

                                    [–]ofimmsl 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    He was asking people to tip the good comments not to give him tips

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                                      [–]Banderbill 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      It was a slip up, but would we treat a celebrity AMA (say Tom Hanks) the same way?

                                      I don't have any doubt that if Tom Hanks went to /r/movies and told them to show up in /r/IAMA and tip and upvote people asking about his upcoming movies and downvote people being mean he would be banned too. Reddit does not fuck around with people openly calling for brigading, it's incredible Andreas went ahead and ignored one of the few rules reddit even has.

                                      [–]Based_gandhi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Reddit shadowbanned /u/unidan who's more popular on reddit for breaking the same rules.

                                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I still hate that. Unidan brought significant value to reddit and they axed him. I call that cutting off your nose to spite your face. I don't expect to agree with every decision reddit admins make, but I would like to have a feeling of trust in their overall model, and I'm losing that.

                                      [–]kazuki49 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      lol man is actually one of the few sane bitcoin technology spokesman, i was looking forward to this ama

                                      [–]bajanboost 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                      Sounds like a good community to piss off by forcing centralized censorship and control.

                                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Hah! Best comment ever! As believers in blockchain technology it will (hopefully) only be a few years before we've transcended this. I hope the new place is satisfying and rewarding.

                                      [–]AlyoshaV 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Yes, I can't wait for the glorious future of spamming being allowed.

                                      [–]Simcom 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Honestly, I'd be fine with it. No-rules reddit would be better than what we have now. If posts are spammy they get downvoted or removed by mods anyway. And if someone truly wants to spam they just create a new account and spam with it until it gets banned - the rules don't do anything but get good people with multi-year accounts banned for minor offenses as in this case. Personally I'm constantly worried I'm going to get banned for tipping too frequently.

                                      [–]AlyoshaV 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      No-rules reddit would be better than what we have now

                                      I guarantee this is totally false. You obviously haven't seen what no-rules sites look like.

                                      If content sucks it gets downvoted

                                      Not really. It depends on how you define "sucks", though. Some people love /r/gaming, for example.

                                      the rules don't do anything but get good people banned for minor offenses as in this case

                                      The rules ban a shitload of bad users. You apparently assume these users don't exist because you don't see them.

                                      Personally I'm constantly worried I'm going to get banned for tipping too frequently.

                                      You won't be shadowbanned unless you're a significant portion of all comments.

                                      [–]Oda_Krell 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                      To recap: 1) Andreas made a mistake, agreed. 2) banning him for this one remark is a pretty heavy handed reaction.

                                      From what I gather, he didn't organize any serious vote brigading off-site, but he was making the rather flippant remark to "downvote trolls". That remark on its own is probably still below a bannable offense, especially as a first offense.

                                      Delete the offending post if on reddit itself, and write a warning to him before banning - that would seem to be the reasonable approach in cases like this. Immediate ban for a grey area case like this is bad style, unrelated to whether the topic is Bitcoin or not.

                                      [–]Introshine 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      How does one know he is shadowbanned?

                                      [–]manny_big32 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      if you click his user.. it shows as 'page not found'.. although it is possible he deleted his page and it would appear the same, i guess?

                                      [–]RegulatedByMath -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      His posts still have his name. If he deleted his account, all his posts would show with the name "[deleted]". So he definitely got shadowbanned.

                                      [–]mjh808 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      oy vey, not another shoadow ban

                                      [–]kiisfm 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      Reddit can suck troll dick

                                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                      I don't want to reveal to you what my RES tag for you says, but let's say it's not particularly honorable. But today - I agree with you. Reddit is sucking troll dick and shitting on its own community. When you put rules ahead of reason.. you're just an idiot. Reddit. That's you.

                                      [–]kiisfm 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Maybe I've seen more shit like this and went crazy. Pm me my tag please, I'd enjoy it.

                                      [–]secret_bitcoin_login 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Nah, I'm not here to instigate. I just find your comments to be unenlightening and agitating. Regardless, I am one of those people who believes it takes "all kinds".

                                      [–]kiisfm 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      It's good to die for Bitcoin

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                                        [–]28z 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        um...

                                        [–]itsgremlin 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Looks legit. What a joke!

                                        [–]Aviathor 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Quote: "Help me get the best q answered" could also mean: "I need your help ANSWERING (all those) the questions"! And this would not be vote brigading!

                                        [–]buddhathrower 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        decentralize reddit!

                                        [–]jalgroy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Not surprised, he asked for vote brigading which is against the rules of reddit.

                                        [–]llortoftrolls 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        He asked for support from the bitcoin community since mods don't moderate bitcoin trolls. I swear this is the only community on reddit where people can freely shit all over the topic that is described in the sidebar and get away with it.

                                        Yeaaa. Everyone hates Bitcoin!

                                        [–]dskloet 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                        Buttcoin: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2s1xp6/omfg_andreas_buttcoin_guru_antonopoulos_is/

                                        Did he ask people to upvote his AMA announcement?

                                        [–]fluffyponyza 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        He asked for uproots and downvotes of comments: http://i.imgur.com/5ZuoYwu.png

                                        [–]DoctorDbx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        He specifically asked people to downvote negative comments. No matter how you slice it, this is brigading.

                                        [–]FjorXD 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        He didn't say to downvote negative comments but troll comments. There is a huge difference. Non of us mind answering negative questions about bitcoin as long as they actually want to learn about it.

                                        [–]secret_bitcoin_login 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Would someone go ahead and page an actual administrator to the issue before this turns out to be a shitfest? It's irritating and embarrassing for the actual reddit community.

                                        [–]CosteaReddit[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        this is good for bitcoin

                                        [–]28z 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        this is gentlemen

                                        [–]llortoftrolls 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        Are you being sarcastic?

                                        [–]gakman 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The next few replies will be critical.

                                        [–]dskloet 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Buttcoiner

                                        [–]swmich73 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        You're new here? Good news is bad for Bitcoin and vice versa

                                        [–]ywecur 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Why?

                                        [–]seriouslytaken 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        r/undelete

                                        [–]iwantathink 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        He's unbanned now:

                                        Check out @aantonop's Tweet: https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/554278970670080000?s=09

                                        [–]secret_bitcoin_login 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Wow. Can confirm. How awkward for reddit!?

                                        [–]w1nw1n 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Fuck you Reddit! Go suck some trolls dick while you are at it.

                                        [–]RegulatedByMath -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Your tears are delicious.

                                        [–]manny_big32 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        I'm sure Andreas wasn't fully aware with the IAMA rules.. fwiw. If his shadowbanning wasn't related to this AMA. a mod from r/bitcoin really should chime up as to why....

                                        Earlier this week there were very select posts related to con-Garza being deleted, yet pretty much everything else was being let through. these are out of the ordinary deletions and seemingly questionable abuses of power within the reddit space..

                                        [–]Banderbill 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        These aren't /r/iama rules, these are sitewide rules for all of reddit.

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                                          [–]btcdrak 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          Sorry to be a n00b, but what is a "shadow ban"?

                                          [–]BraydenH 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          It's a type of ban where the person can still post but it has to be approved by a moderator. In addition they cannot vote. The votes and comments appear to work on their end but in reality nobody is seeing these changes.

                                          It's designed to make it more difficult for spam bots to detect if they're banned.

                                          [–]JustPuggin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          He should have done an AMA, and by that I mean answered 4 questions in 30 minutes, and use that as an opportunity to ask them all to watch his next appearance.

                                          [–]w1nw1n -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          I suggest nobody to buy Reddit Notes

                                          [–]secret_bitcoin_login 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Behaving rashly doesn't solve anything. I'm aggravated as well, but this is the action of one moderator and hasn't had time to unfold through the ranks and have public discussion. I'd agree with you if this is regarded as a way of business for reddit as a whole.

                                          [–]Based_gandhi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          lol reddit notes will be distributed to random redditors, not sold.

                                          [–]slapded -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Hahaha haha! !!

                                          [–]lijji 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Armchair heros lol. Some mod high on his mod power is fapping hard over this.

                                          "Oh yea" fap fap fap "no one mentions the arrows in my sub" fap fap fap "ban hammer" fap fap fap .....lol

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