評価の高い 200 コメント表示する 500

[–]tanstaafl90 92 ポイント93 ポイント  (32子コメント)

Why do people insist on documenting their stupidity on the internet?

[–]ExplainsSocialEnigma 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's anti-dentite

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't be anti-dentite if I'm a dentist. Why do you think I converted to Dentistry? For the jokes.

[–]Focusyn[🍰] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He probably thinks they should have their own schools..

[–]stp2007 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Example of Darwin's finding in action?

[–]terraformedcylinder 106 ポイント107 ポイント  (44子コメント)

I think a lot of people are missing the fact that these were comments targeted at specific people which, while maybe not explicitly threatening, could certainly reasonably be taken as impliedly threatening.

How would you feel sitting in class next to a supposed professional who you knew had joked about "hate fucking" you specifically, on the same page where he made comments about drugging women? It's not just about hurt feelings, it's clearly much more than that.

I don't know what the right response is - I suspect expulsion is not the answer - but I worry about the cavalier attitude that so many in this thread seem to be taking.

[–]ErikKarlssonsHair 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (38子コメント)

It is a bad thing and it deserves to be punished. But people are yelling around saying that hate fucking is a rape threat. No it isn't. Hate fucking is when two consented individuals have angry hate sex. So I'm assuming the two individuals did not like each other, and the guy wanted to have sex with her. He just unwisely chose to post his feelings to a Facebook group and it got exposed. People are crying for expulsion. I want restorative justice. I want these young men to understand that what they've done is horrible. I don't want their lives ruined for making a post to Facebook.

[–]Re-readingQuantifier 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (18子コメント)

You're assuming that everyone uses the expression "hate fucking" in exactly the same way all the time. They don't.

[–]dudehere976 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think he's pointing out the subjective nature of commentary.

[–]baconperogies 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, that's just like your opinion man...

[–]Mordecus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is a semantic argument. Someone you have a mutual dislike with is discussing hate fucking you in a forum commonly used by your peers - any sane person is going to perceive that as threatening. If you can't see that , then you've led a very sheltered existence.

[–]ErikKarlssonsHair 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm very unsheltered. I can see it, and given the context of the other posts I can see the reasoning behind that train of thought. But this particular post doesn't seem too bad compared to the others. I'm assing the poster knows this girl and dislikes her, but thinks she is hot and given the opportunity would like to have angry consensual sex with her

[–]MrCda 94 ポイント95 ポイント  (6子コメント)

When you are a professional who will work with the general public (i.e. males and females) and you might have control over women who might be "under" during your career, such behaviour cannot be disregarded as a light-hearted episode.

[–]bsbbtnh 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (16子コメント)

From what I understand the students are just suspended from working in the clinic, which means they cannot work on the public.

Look at it like this. These people made "jokes" about raping their colleagues. If the university allows them to work on the public and one of them touches a patients boob or something, the university is open to liability. Further, if some psycho comes in and later claims (even without it having happened) that she was sexually harassed/assaulted by one of the dentists, that puts the university in a bad light.

The university CANNOT allow them to practice under the university's banner, because of liability issues. I bet this decision came straight from the university's lawyers.

And they likely wont get hired at any practice where they've heard of what happened, specifically because of the liability concerns. It's hard to say "Our practice isn't liable (or as liable) for Dr. Creeps sexual harassment/assault" when they are in the national news for making jokes about raping colleagues.

We see false rape claims all the time on reddit and in the news. This is exactly the type of target some crazy woman would seek out, in order to score some easy money. It's hard to say you're not capable of doing that when you joke about it, and it's a big burden on your case in a he said/she said context.

The university is doing what's right.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's why their names haven't been released I believe.

[–]caitlington 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Royal College of Dental Surgeons of Ontario has formally requested their names.

[–]eltopo71 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (6子コメント)

About time the university took at least some action instead of basically letting the entire class of 2015 languish under a cloud of suspicion. I guess they finally figured out that they were likelier by the day to get sued by the uninvolved fourth-year dentistry students if they didn't.

[–]in4realOntario 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

About time the university took at least some action instead of basically letting the entire class of 2015 languish under a cloud of suspicion.

This was the most ridiculous part of the story - punishing the entire class.

[–]CalvinROntario 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not an easy decision for them to make, kids in this situation both the victims and the perpetrators have killed themselves in the past for getting kicked out of school, I don't blame the university for being cautious in there approach here.

[–]caitlington 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I appreciate this sentiment, but I would really caution yourself against referring to these men as kids. It diminishes their actions as they are full grown men who are basically dentists.

[–]ErikKarlssonsHair 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The decision was made December 22nd. It was announced today

[–]holyshititsahippo 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

ITT: Seems like this is hitting a little close to home for a bunch of people in this subreddit.

[–]devilscreekrevival 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (51子コメント)

ahhhhh reddit. The place to go when you're jonsing hard to read comments by 19 year olds with all the answers in the world. The fact of the matter is, like any professionally regulated body (nurses, doctors, dentists, therapists), you have to adhere to codes of conduct, and if these "men" feel that disgusting rape jokes are funny, especially towards real human beings in their school, then you have to pay the piper. They aren't an exception to the rule just because they haven't graduated yet. Fourth year dentist students spend most of their time in clinic. All these self-righteous privacy nuts need to get over yourselves and go try working in the public sector. Like it or not you are held to higher standards than most of you still flipping burgers and jacking off in your parents basement.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

jonsing hard to read comments by 19 year olds with all the answers in the world.

Nope. Not hypocritical at all.

[–]Optikaldream 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My only real issue with this is that any member of the group is being punished. What if someone joined, never participated and forgot about it?

[–]bennjammin 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (26子コメント)

The jokes on Facebook were clearly in poor taste and the students were stupid to attach those jokes to their full names and Facebook profiles, but IMO the university is a little out of bounds in punishing the students for what they do online in a (meant to be) private group, although there's some grey area since they used Dalhousie in the Facebook group's name. I wonder how many students browse 4chan or even certain parts of reddit that have more offensive content that would make their jokes seem tame in comparison.

"Does this rag smell like choloroform" isn't even offensive, we used to say that to each other in elementary school. Search reddit for "offensive jokes" and you'll find far worse, should commenters in those threads fear punishment if their usernames are ever identified by someone?

[–]cshivers 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I wonder how many students browse 4chan or even certain parts of reddit that have more offensive content that would make their jokes seem tame in comparison.

The difference is that these guys were making jokes specifically about other students that they work with and attend class with. That makes it the university's business - they have a duty to maintain a safe environment.

[–]bennjammin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's definitely an important factor which is why I partly agree with the steps they've taken. The part I disagree with is going online and judging people's intentionally private comments and likes as if they were the same as moral approving something. In this case you have the name of the school and names of people in the classes which can justify the punishments.

The huge grey area is that a lot of the context of something online is in the hands of the recipient rather than the sender. For example I don't know what kind of tone you intended your comment to be read in, I can't tell so I read it in my own desired tone. If you think someone is a jerk online, everything you read by them could sound like a jerk to you because that's how you interpret it. In real life if someone doesn't get the context you can tell they didn't react as intended and reiterate to make it clearer but online none of that happens so it's very open to interpretation. I'm not implying this is the case here, but you also can't tell if someone is being a parody or sincere online. If I'm parodying an offensive person in real life it's obvious I'm meaning to be that person and not myself, but online it just looks like I'm being offensive unless someone is already in on the joke.

[–]Bambooze 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

No they weren't. Post the screen cap where they do. They did have a poll over who they'd like to fuck though. Which is very anti women and misogynist if you are a sex negative feminist, but underwise pretty much neutral.

[–]unofficial22 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It would be the same result in a workplace.

[–]mug3nAlberta 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i'm sure some workplaces these days have social media agreements/policies as well, especially for a profession that interacts with the public on a much more intimate level.

[–]bennjammin 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't really agree with treating student's online lives as if they were employees representing a company 24/7.

Keep in mind we're all using a website right now that hosts a whole lot of very offensive, sexist, and racist content, and from an ousider's perspective we're all potentially involved in it. You can troll through user's comment histories going back over a decade to make sure they aren't being offensive (or are), but at face value we're all on a website that harbors the kind of content that people are getting suspended from Dalhousie for "liking."

Edit: Imagine everything you've ever upvoted, comments included, is up for scrutiny. A lot of us would be found to have upvoted a comment that could be taken as sexist, or part of a thread where others are being sexist.

[–]Jabronez 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Considering they are in a work place training environment I would assume they deserve slightly more leniency.

[–]deadlast 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

but IMO the university is a little out of bounds in punishing the students for what they do online in a (meant to be) private group

Why? A professional ethics body wouldn't hesitate.

[–]FrenchAffairQuébec 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

private group

Not really private anymore.... thus it can't be treated as a 'private' conversation in terms of reaction by the University.

[–]TorontoAnnex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not really private anymore.... thus it can't be treated as a 'private' conversation in terms of reaction by the University.

No , if you want rules to be enforced by evidence rather than "feels" the original intent of the boys are taken in account.

Otherwise a Female college student who gets her nude pictures stolen and put on the internet should rightly be suspended for doing pornography and ignore her protests that the pictures were private and they were never meant to be published .

It is called ethics morals and rule of law , something that Liberals and Feminists have none of these days

[–]donottouchwilly 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Ethics morals and rule of law. "

Morals do not apply here. I find many people confuse the two. Here: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (29子コメント)

It's a brave new world where stuff you say online in a private internet forum could ruin your life and cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I wonder when people will get charged/expelled for talking shit while being drunk at a bar.

[–]ur_a_idiet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Google "Rob Ford" with "Karen Stintz" and "drunk at a bar"... but make popcorn first... and have some eye/ear bleach nearby.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (27子コメント)

If Good ol' Bobby F didn't get fired for saying stuff on tape then why should these idiot kids?

[–]in4realOntario 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (113子コメント)

Seems excessive. More appropriate would have been a formal apology, some sort of mandatory training, community service, etc.

Instead lives ruined for poor taste comments.

[–]Gluverty 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (102子コメント)

Well, perhaps they're not suited for this field. Their lives are not ruined, just their dental careers.

[–]no_diceQuébec 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (54子コメント)

Given that they most likely took on 6 figure debts to get to the point they are now with the intention of paying them off with a high paying career in dentistry, I would say that their lives would be profoundly affected were they not able to practice eventually.

[–]Confusedandlost123 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

then they should have thought about that before they acted.

they have a code of conduct that is taken very seriously.

[–]bravadoOntario 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's unreasonable to end someone's career before they even get a chance to start it for childish and wholly inappropriate comments. Your proposed punishment doesn't fit the severity of the alleged crime.

[–]AkesgerothQuébec 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It takes a tremendously disconnected individual to think the average person can recover from the loss of three years of college studies.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (43子コメント)

That's like saying: You spent your entire academic career building up to this point with hundreds of thousands spent on tuition and text books; countless hours of studying.

But because you posted some shit on a private internet forum. We're going to say, you're not suited for this field.

[–]Confusedandlost123 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (40子コメント)

yep. that's perfectly reasonable, considering the field they are going into has a certain code of conduct and puts their clients into already venerable positions around them.

[–]Luke_Poley 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

After spending 6 figures on a university education? Yeah. They seem pretty ruined. I hate to take their side, and I'm really not doing that, what they did was effing stupid, but I'm a university student, and if you told me "oh, by the way, you'll never work in the field you've spent years and years and a hundred thousand dollars on. Oh, BTW those loans are due next month, good luck." I would, more than likely, fall apart completely. So I empathize with that.

[–]ab_roller 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (175子コメント)

Wow. Trial by media. This is brutal.
Tasteless jokes on a private group gets them suspended and their future careers could be done.
WTF Canada.

[–]ooburaiNova Scotia 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Normally I would agree with you, but I'm pretty sure that doctors and other medical professionals are held to a higher standard for reasons to do with medical ethics. If this actually happened on a social media site then they shouldn't have future careers in a clinical setting.

I withhold final judgement, but from what I've read it doesn't sound to me as though there's any real dispute that this happened and it shows a stunning lack of judgement for people who are going into a career where patient care is at its centre. Save the frat boy humour for the MBA school, but of course most MBA schools that are sensitive to their image would do exactly the same thing, if for only slightly different reasons. You're not entitled to a degree simply because you paid your tuition and attended classes with a passing grade. I know when I was in university there were a wide range of rules some of which could have resulted in an expulsion from my programme without any legal recourse and I was a liberal arts undergrad at the time.

This isn't really a trial by media, this is a question of medical ethics and the rules aren't the same as the rules in a court of law. You can be legally innocent and still lose your license because it's critical that the public have trust in the medical profession if it is to serve its role and not just act as a privileged elite.

Besides, somebody who's old enough and educated enough to be studying for a DDS should know better than to do this on social media.

PS: I might well have agreed with you if you were arguing that the facts hadn't been established but you're arguing that the behaviour was "private" and therefore it shouldn't matter.

[–]FunBunsMcGee 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I think a lot of people are hung up on the privacy violation issue. I just hope that Dalhousie takes action based on the best interests of the students, program, and profession, rather than try and make an example of these guys.

[–]DaftPump 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It puts the school in a clumsy position no matter what action they take. :/

[–]captainburnz 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People have full right to make offensive jokes in private.

Dalhousie doesn't really care very much about it's students anyway. They are mostly seen as a way for Nova Scotia to get equalization payments from Ontario.

[–]Purplebuzz -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Either we are all treated based on what we think and say in private or none of us should be. I look forward to everyone who thinks they should be expelled posting their real names in their next reddit post.

[–]Caelrie 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (15子コメント)

These guys are going to school to learn how to use drugs to keep patients unconscious. Do you think it's appropriate that they find raping unconscious women funny?

I think that makes them unfit to practice.

[–]rackmountramboOntario 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

And as an IT guy I like to joke about making RJ45 to power cables and handing them out.

[–]jaibrooks1 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're fired

[–]rackmountramboOntario 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

But I'm just a normal person and father with no ill-will, the fact that I enjoy dead baby jokes shouldn't degrade my actual qualities as a person.

[–]bennjammin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

dead baby jokes

Infanticide advocate!

[–]Luke_Poley 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just don't tell tumblr, or you'll be out of a job. Fucking hell.

[–]ChrisOfAllTrades 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, the legendary Etherkiller.

"No, no, you've heard about 'Power over Ethernet' right? We're just trying it out on your desktop."

[–]Bambooze 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What if the comment was directed at an individual indicating the only way he could have sex with someone of a level of attractiveness similar to a posted picture was by chloroforming them? Is that still concerning? I ask because there were other comments in that thread which were blurred out removing context for no discernable reason, and one of the members of the class was known to have made multiple specious claims of sexism in the past which she refused to report officially to the university or anonymously to the college of dentistry prior to this scandal.

[–]newimpartial 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Where's your evidence for the "one member of the class... specious claims of sexism"?

[–]bennjammin 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

These guys are going to school to learn how to use drugs to keep patients unconscious.

I think this is a setup to a lot of potentially funny jokes because of the fact the person is unconsious and can't tell what's going on. One that comes to mind is the classic Seinfeld episode with the Junior mint.

[–]Purplebuzz 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do they find that funny or do they find the inappropriateness of joking about it funny? Is it the act or he reaction to talking about the act that contains the humour for them?

[–]Holos620 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's unrelated to what they do.

[–]Caelrie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's an opinion that's unrelated to reality.

[–]Gluverty 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (110子コメント)

I guess actions have consequence. Weird. It's like they are being treated as adults. Brutal, I know!!

[–]Shit-Just-Got-Epic 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (4子コメント)

But all they are guilty of is talking smack on the internet. We all do it. Even your mom did after I banged her last night.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How could my mom joke about that with your dick in her mouth?

(Amidoingthisright?)

[–]Foolishdogs 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Everyone find out where this guy works and ruin his career! He fucked that guys mother!

[–]grondor 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (26子コメント)

[–]VelvetJusticeBritish Columbia 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (24子コメント)

It's not as if he joked about drugging and raping people as a future professional with the means to do exactly that...

[–]el_notarioCanada 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (58子コメント)

anyone who gets fired for making a joke remark to their friends in a closed forum on the internet should be able to sue their employer for wrongful dismissal.

As a Dalhousie Alum, the administration is wrong here. Shit, one of the most active Dal related FB groups is "Overheard at Dal" (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2204953491/). Should we hunt down and suspend the people who make the comments that get posted too?

[–]memetunis 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Does the university have a social media policy?

[–]el_notarioCanada 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

not that i'm aware of.

[–]Re-readingQuantifier 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (49子コメント)

a joke remark

And the first thing you do is diminish what they've done to make the punishment look harsh. These students who were suspended didn't make "a joke remark", they talked about drugging women, having violent sex with them and having "hate sex" with them.

That isn't "a joke remark".

That isn't "a joke remark".

That isn't "a joke remark".

[–]Jabronez 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

The comment about drugging women was a quote from the movie called "Hall Pass". While it's certainly inappropriate for a dentistry student to make that joke, and I personally believe that the comment warrants expulsion for that student in particular, it's not fair to misrepresent the nature of the comment.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (22子コメント)

How do you define a joke remark?

I guess Louis CK is literally not a comedian because he jokes about rape. Because no one can joke about rape.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

GASP! You -mentioned- rape! You must be a rapist!

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh shit. I guess I better put in my resignation letter and live in my mom's basement forever.

[–]sonofodin1 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Please don't put dentistry students and comedians in the same boat here. It diminishes the seriousness of what they did. They "joked" about drugging people and performing violent sexual acts on them while they sleep. Something that, if they graduate, they could easily do.

no one can joke about rape

Anyone can. But if you work with anesthetics in a medical profession, you have to deal with the fallout of being caught making these jokes.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Oh please. You think you need someone to utter any type of rape joke to be an actual rapist?

They didn't do anything.

Making jokes isn't a crime.

[–]el_notarioCanada 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Just because you don't find a joke funny doesn't mean it's not a joke. Just like if you don't like a piece of art or a song, it still an piece or art of a song.

bad jokes and good jokes come from the same creative pool.

[–]Re-readingQuantifier 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (12子コメント)

You continue to use the word "a" as though there was only one of them.

This isn't "a" joke remark.

These students aren't being punished for one offhanded comment. They did much more than that. But you don't really care at all about the facts, do you?

[–]el_notarioCanada -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

It's a joke page. It's like reading /r/metacanada and taking it seriously. the facts are that this was so clearly a joke. do you really think these kids are wannabe rapists?

you love guns, does that make you a murderer? these kids made jokes about rape, that does not make them rapists.

[–]furrotCanada 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think when you start including pictures of your fellows students with respect to your joke you've crossed a line. Making threats about rape is as serious as a death threat and should be treated as such. I fail to see the humour of putting a woman's picture on the wall and saying "wouldn't it be funny if someone drugged and assaulted her because she's attractive."

[–]Re-readingQuantifier 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's a strawman if I've ever seen one. I'm not saying it makes them rapists. If they were rapists a lot more would be happening to them than being suspended.

I'm interested in your ability to read their minds. How is it you know all of these men are joking?

I honestly don't know what kind of men they are. I do know that I wouldn't want my daughter in their class or to be their patient. Would you?

[–]swampswing 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe learn what hate sex actual is before trying to destroy some kids lives and yes those were jokes. Have you never seen an episode of family guy.

http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life/blogs/smitten/2014/02/is-hate-sex-a-thing-and-if-so

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It crossed my mind tonight that anybody who says anything "bad" will become fair game. An elementary teacher who says, "That kid is awful. I wanna wring his neck" will be accused of threatening the kid's life. Because, you know, the teacher has access to both that kid and has hands.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Once precedence has been set, they're fair game. :|

[–]redundanteaterBritish Columbia 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No shit. It's time for universities to expel all these tumblr shits who want to kill men.

[–]disintegore 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Treated as adults, by overgrown children.

Your rights end where my feelings begin

[–]swampswing -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So where do you work. I would like to give them a call and send them your reddit account to look through. Same thing with your facebook account too. We all say stupid shit. Stop being such a self righteous ass. We shouldn't hold people accountable to standards that aren't realistic or practiced by ourselves.

[–]pablothe 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah even if people had a thought, should we punish people for thinking things? Should we punish people for imagining evil things?

This is borderline thoughtcrime

[–]swampswing 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's my point. Gluverty is trying to hold people up to an unreasonable standard and punish people for what are basically thought crimes.

[–]dudehere976 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You think raping animals is funny?

[–]kochevnikov 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Yeah I'm pretty sure this crew of fuckwads aren't the victims here.

[–]el_notarioCanada 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (23子コメント)

there are no victims, that's the point.

[–]kochevnikov 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (21子コメント)

No I'm pretty sure the point ab_roller is trying to make is that this group of idiots are the victims of some kind of horrible media conspiracy. In reality they're a bunch of assholes who got punished for acting like assholes.

[–]Re-readingQuantifier 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Yeah... women shouldn't be scared of men making jokes about hate sex and druggings. And if they are scared they should just live with it. Stop being so sensitive about rape, women. Yeesh, they're just jokes!

/s

[–]bennjammin 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Guess we have to retire dead baby jokes too, also AIDS jokes, and I better not say anything about a family going to see a talent agent...

[–]Luke_Poley 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

YOUR RIGHT TO ENJOY THINGS ENDS WHERE MY FEELINGS BEGIN, SHITLORD!

[–]Moh7 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yes we shouldn't be allowed to make any jokes about anything that might hurt feelings.

Everyone just stick to dad jokes for the rest of your lives.

By the way will you be protesting Louis CK for his rape/racist jokes?

[–]cdcformatc 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Louis CK joked on a stage about hypothetical people. These guys joked about real people, that they were probably sitting next to with facebook open on their laptops or phones.

[–]Toaster135 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (142子コメント)

I am curious what this "suspension" will eventually amount to. If it's a permanent arrangement this is a real shame.

Is it really worth ruining lives over silly, stupid jokes on a private facebook group?

[–]mtledQuébec 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They are not suspended from classes (which don't start for another week), but rather are no scheduled to work in the dentistry clinic, which is open to the public. They are being prevented from practising their skills, not from continuing to learn. If they forget how to clean teeth in a week or two (or even a couple months) then they aren't fit to graduate this spring anyways.

[–]Gluverty 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (67子コメント)

"Ruined lives" because they don't meet the professional standards to be a dentist... standards I think are important considering they are meant to be alone in a room with anesthetized people amongst other things.

[–]Toaster135 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (61子コメント)

So because of a few admittedly VERY indiscreet and inappropriate comments, you figure they've failed to meet the professional requirements, and their 3.5 years of training, plus the years of work leading up to admission, should be flushed?

That strikes me as a very vindictive mindset. If I was held accountable for every off color (or straight up racist or sexist) joke I've ever made, I'd be incredibly embarrassed. I imagine you might have a few embarrassing moments yourself.

Just consider that maybe, expulsion is not the only answer. There are ways of meting out discipline without completely destroying a career.

[–]MIUfishCanada 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a difference between "indiscreet and inappropriate" and threatening. It's certainly unprofessional and unbecoming of someone to "joke" about drugging and raping women when their profession involves sedating people and treating them professionally.

[–]Gluverty 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (57子コメント)

I'm not comfortable with someone of their mindset working on my daughter or girlfriend while she is under, no. I don't think they are fit for the field.
And while I think decency should never be regulated by the government it is an unavoidable factor in the professional world.
I have considered that expulsion is not the only answer. I feel it is the most fitting one. People need to realize that actions have consequence. We're not such a nanny state that can protect and hold every little kids hand when they behave badly. Welcome to the real world, kiddies.

[–]el_notarioCanada 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (50子コメント)

So you've never made an off colour remark in your life? Or said something you regret? or made disparaging remarks about the opposite sex while you were in your early 20's?

of course you have and did...doesn't mean it's the embodiment of your character.

[–]DrMikeTyson 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (11子コメント)

So you've never made an off colour remark in your life? Or said something you regret? or made disparaging remarks about the opposite sex while you were in your early 20's?

I've never had a conversation advocating sexual violence at work, much less the ongoing obsession that they seem to have had, no. I, like most people with professional degrees, understand the importance of professional ethics.

[–]swampswing 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It wasn't at work, and they were making jokes, not advocating sexual violence. Do you think family guy advocates sexual violence for having quagmire jokes?

Also hate fucking is rape. Do some reading before you condemn.

http://www.metro.us/lifestyle/hate-sex-how-to-have-it/tmWmhl---1c1OmmBpF8hbc/

http://www.glamour.com/sex-love-life/blogs/smitten/2014/02/is-hate-sex-a-thing-and-if-so

Edit:

I missed a word. Should say: Also hate fucking isn't rape. Do some reading before you condemn.

[–]Bambooze 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you meant to say "isn't rape" by the context so may want to change that, but if not your links seem puzzling.

[–]el_notarioCanada 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

This wasn't at work. The irony of you posting about sexual violence under the username of a convicted rapist is too much for me to handle though. you should obviously be fired from your job.

[–]bennjammin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rape jokes don't "advocate" for rape the same as dead baby jokes don't advocate for infanticide.

[–]dudehere976 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your username suggests otherwise. Being as how, yknow, mike Tysons s convicted rapist.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you have made other offensive remarks?

Remarks that someone else may be offended?

What if that person decide to wage an online war on your to try to get you fired from your current job?

What's said doesn't matter here. It's the principle that people are getting severe punishment for what things said on they thought was a private internet forum.

Honestly. There's been no better time to use "Internets serious business" than today.

[–]SmokeontheHorizon 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (31子コメント)

You'll find most people's characters are, in fact, defined by the things they do. I'm flabbergasted you think there is some other measure of a person's character.

[–]el_notarioCanada 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I agree with you to an extent, and this group of early twenties guys were making jokes about women. That is not outrageous. I also refuse to believe that who you are at 24 is who you are at 34 or 44 or 54.

All this event tells me about their character is that they are better off suited for dentistry than they are stand up comedy.

[–]Shit-Just-Got-Epic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Exactly. The things they DO. What they joke and speak about is of lesser importance.

[–]SmokeontheHorizon 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Last I checked, joking and speaking about things are still things you "do."

[–]Shit-Just-Got-Epic 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Yes it is still "something" you do, you god damned pedant. But it is of lesser importance than actions.

If I make jokes about robbing banks all the time, it does not put me on the same level as an actual bank robber.

[–]greengordon 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Fair enough, but if you were training to work in a bank and kept making jokes about robbing banks...

[–]sonofodin1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It would be a problem if you worked in a bank.

[–]greengordon 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

If I posted a FB page with degrading comments about women, I would likely be fired and certainly would be considered unfit for management, my current role.

[–]Shit-Just-Got-Epic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Actions do indeed have consequences, but posting crude stuff in a private Facebook group is pretty tame and not worthy of sanction IMO.

[–]DrMikeTyson 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So because of a few admittedly VERY indiscreet and inappropriate comments, you figure they've failed to meet the professional requirements, and their 3.5 years of training, plus the years of work leading up to admission, should be flushed?

Yes. And tough for them. Professional organizations have their own standards above and beyond the law. They are there to maintain confidence in the profession. If the names of these students were to be known to the College of Physicians (or whatever the dental equivalent would be) there is 0 % chance any of them would be getting a licence anyway.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really doubt you know what you're talking about.

Shit happens at the CoPS all the time. There are inquiries but very very few physicians lose their licenses. They get a slap on the wrist unless it's actually criminal findings. Even then they can reapply to be reinstated.

[–]Threetakes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think it's the university that governs the profession of dentistry. Don't dentists have their own governing body similar to what doctors and Lawyers have?

In other words I think an issue might be whether the university should be handling issues of professional behavior in this case at all.

Maybe I'm wrong though. ..

[–]OxfordTheCat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

because they don't meet the professional standards to be a dentist

Oh please.

Because they made inappropriate jokes when they were young?

Yes, I'm sure none of the practicing medical professionals in Canada have ever made an inappropriate remark, lewd joke, or similar comment in the company of their friends.

Get a grip.

I hope the suspended students sue the university.

[–]Gluverty 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"When they were young"

Oh, please. They made them as adults about colleagues.

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you a dentist?

[–]kohuan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Um how about the student who access the Facebook without permission ? Would you trust your medical history with that person ?

[–]SmokeontheHorizon 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Better than running the risk of letting them graduate and ruin someone else's life. If you had to read the posts moments before being anaesthetized by one of them, you might be feeling a little exposed.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Do many rapists go on FB and announce ahead of time that they plan to rape people or, as it would be later called, "People's Exhibit A"?

[–]SmokeontheHorizon 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Private correspondence can be admissible in a court case, so if one of these individuals ever assaulted a patient, and a judge deemed the conversations relevant to the ensuing proceedings, then yes, actually.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

IF. Agreed. And, IF they ever do, hang them high.

Until then, there's no reason to try to flush away their careers.

[–]SmokeontheHorizon 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's definitely the fair response. However, its hard to just ignore that sort of inflammatory behavior with the rise in sexual misconduct cases against doctors (or at least, the rise in the media's coverage.)

It seems we haven't gone a month without a doctor being fired for sexual assault against their patients somewhere in Canada. Mostly Toronto. It comes down to a question of the extent to which the law should be preventative versus reactive.

[–]_LeggoMyEggo_Canada 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can and should punish bad doctors who DO bad things. But you can't (or shouldn't be able to) punish people for joking about doing bad things and especially when those things were said in a private setting. Direct threats are one thing but, IMO, once we start being punitive about jokes and allusions, we've crossed a very dark and slippery societal line.

[–]zapsandal 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (47子コメント)

Ruined lives! They shall have to live in the sewers, shunned by a society that rejects them! Oh, the humanity!

They did the deed. They pay the price. That’s how life works.

You want to be the type of doctor that works on unconscious people? Then you need to meet some minimum ethical standards. Joking about raping them puts you well below that standard.

[–]Toaster135 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (38子コメント)

Please quit it with the sarcasm. A career in a medical profession is a big achievement. If you know anyone who has applied or been accepted to medical school, dental school, optometry school etc, you hopefully understand the sacrifices that have to be made. Few other careers are as demanding of a person.

To have a promising career like this snuffed out of hand for a Facebook comment - yes, that is life ruining. It really is.

[–]JasonTO 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Few other careers are as demanding of a person.

Isn't that the point? It's demanding because it's a field which places an individual in a position of great power, responsibility, and trust. Those demands apply as much to the candidate's ability to perform their job ethically as it does to perform it efficiently.

The Hippocratic Oath is a thing, you know?

[–]Toaster135 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yes, that's all very nice, but I think you need to realize that dentists are just human! They say stupid things, make mistakes, tell inappropriate jokes.. They are just people.

Just because we hold these people to a higher standard doesn't mean we can't show a little humility and MERCY when they screw up.. These were comments on Facebook not malpractice.

[–]JasonTO 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Do you agree that the ability to act ethically is an important part of their job (or the job their training for), just as being technically competent is?

[–]MidnightTideOntario 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You never heard a doctor say some inappropriate things? It happens.

[–]JasonTO 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And if those inappropriate things cast doubt on their ability to act ethically and responsibly in their role as a medical practitioner, then they should face the consequences.

[–]Shit-Just-Got-Epic 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (24子コメント)

Agreed. They were commenting for their own amusement. They did not intend for any to see their comments and thus were not harassing anyone.

The whole thing feels like "thought crime".

[–]alice-in-canada-land 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (23子コメント)

They did not intend for any to see their comments

C'mon. I mean; my 12 year old knows that anything she posts to Facebook could become public at any time.

I'm not impressed with the forethought shown by student in a professional field if they couldn't work out that posting rape threats (joking or not) to Facebook is a BAD idea.

[–]Bambooze 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Please explain why. Logically, without appeal to emotions or feelings. If it reflects poorly on the profession explain how and why. Are these fellows actually more likely to rape someone than your a average dentist? Is this something you believe? Why is that? Is the public more likely to lash out against the profession? What reason do they have, and should it be accommodated?

Do you have any support for that feeling or is it just an association you have supported by an attack on your own ego?

If you are concerned about victims, would you be happy with rhem having a restricted license where they are unable to treat women or use sedation on women at all or without a college approved chaperone? Why not? Are you sure these reasons are not self serving or at all hypocritical? Or do you just want to punish some people that made you feel bad and are likely better than you in many objective measures? It is difficult to be a moral person, but a person without morals is even more difficult.

[–]swampswing 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fuck this. "Social justice" is the new religious right, devoted to forcing everyone to follow their insane and unrealistic standards.

[–]The_Nameless_Mist 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For anyone who thinks that outright expulsion is the correct penalty, I suggest two bits of research:

a) Check the requirements and tuition for Dalhousie's Dental program. With the minimum of two leading years, and 22K in tuition and associated costs per year, these 4th year students have expended 140-150K in school and living costs over the course of their degrees. All that will be lost, plus ALL FUTURE INCOME that would have been earned in the industry.

b) Look at bereavement awards for wrongful death across the country, using a summary document like this - .pdf alert.

So, if you accidentally kill someone's Mom in Alberta, the award will be 75K, but if you write something objectionable on Facebook when pissing around with your compatriots, you can lose 150K instantly and millions in lifetime earnings?

[–]raven0usvampireManitoba 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I really wish people would stop and think instead of having a knee jerk reaction.

This is a very very dangerous precedent that is being set (If they do get expelled). What you post on the internet can literally ruin your life if it gets into the wrong hands.

Think about it. If you ever sent sexual text to someone and those gets to the hands of the dean? Your expelled. If you ever got drunk and made some comments about a girl in your class or a co-worker? Expelled.

What you do and say in private is literally being used as criminal evidence. Not even a criminal court has that kind of power without a warrant first.

[–]NewNormandy7Ontario 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Florizone said Monday the announcement of suspensions was delayed because the school's administration had received "credible reports from front-line staff" that some of the men involved were at risk of self-harm.

SELF HARM

[–]smokey44 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In a couple years people won't be allowed to think mean thoughts...

[–]TheTruthandtheAnswer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What standard do you expect to hold dentist students to?

[–]cisco45 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this is a fascinating clash of old vs new. Of course, misogynistic behaviour is wrong. However, a generation ago this behaviour would be hidden behind close doors. I suspect these young men are simple desensitized by posting comments online that they don't hold in real life. What they said was wrong but is a lot tamer than what is said on reddit or can be heard while playing online games. For me the problem is the disconnect between online and real life and a recognition that one can spill over into the other. The term 'hate fuck' is used and although I've not read the Facebook page where it was said, I suspect it was used ironically in reference to Jian Ghomeshi's case and widespread use of the term. I'd never heard the term one year ago. But I could be wrong. So, I don't think these men should be suspended, but rather this should be used as a teachable moment. Provide counselling and consequences and make sure others on campus know that online comments can hurt others and themselves.

[–]rickjaw 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

thought crimes! omg

[–]KINGCOCO 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is infuriating. These men may be disgusting but to suspend or expel them is completely unjustified. They were private comments made in a private group. Who the hell hasn't said something offensive in private?

[–]newimpartial 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I promise that I've never made rape jokea about my colleagues, though.