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Dalhousie board calls emergency meeting; independent inquiry urged [on Dentistry boondoggle] (theglobeandmail.com)

HogtownHoedown が 投稿

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[–]iTorontoOntario 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (15子コメント)

I get the sense that some people won't be completely satisfied until somebody's life is completely destroyed.

[–]rowingthrowing 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

When these 13 members joined a professional program they agreed to abide by a higher code of conduct. When they made those facebook posts, they stupidly attached not only their names, but also the dentistry profession, their class, and their university to their posts by naming the group "The DDS class of 2015 Gentlemen". The university does have a responsibility to investigate whether the code of conduct was broken, and if yes, issue punishment. The provincial dental colleges also have a duty to see if they have proper character to practise. They should've known this before attaching their names, school, and program with behaviour neither the school or profession could endorse.

[–]iTorontoOntario 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To what extent do we take this issue? How severe of a punishment is enough?

[–]HogtownHoedown[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I think people are getting pissed off that the university has dragged its feet instead of:

  1. Expelling the students in question
  2. Apologizing to the community
  3. Making the social media policy of the medical professional programs very clear

The inaction from Dalhousie suggests that the university leadership is hoping this will all blow over and that they will be able to continue as before.

[–]iTorontoOntario 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Expelling the students in question

They don't deserve to be expelled.

Did they do something very stupid? Yes.

Do they deserve to be reprimanded? Yes.

Should there be some form of corrective action? Yes.

Did they actually harm anybody or through their actions cause someone to be harmed? Nope.

[–]HogtownHoedown[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

They talked about drugging and raping specific people in their program with materials they had on-hand.

Your opinions are your own. That's fine. The licensing boards of half the provinces in Canada have stated that they will be going over Dalhousie graduates with a fine tooth comb in the future. That's without precedent. Perhaps that will show you how seriously the medical professionals take these kinds of specific, credible threats.

Dalhousie's inaction has done serious, lasting harm to the reputation of the program and is doing harm to the reputation of the entire school. If the school is so slow to take action even when under national scrutiny, what is swept under the rug when the nation isn't watching?

[–]VelvetJusticeBritish Columbia 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

They talked about drugging and raping specific people in their program with materials they had on-hand.

I read that they had a "hate fuck" poll about two specific students which is terribly offensive and wholly inappropriate but not a rape comment. Then a joke about chloroform, which is a rape joke and absolutely offensive but it was not made specifically about anyone (and I don't think any of them has access to chloroform).

Reprimanding them and keeping an eye on them is definitely warranted, as would be requiring them to take a course about women's rights (or something similar) so they can understand why what they did was wrong. Ruining their entire lives is not going to solve anything.

[–]HogtownHoedown[S] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Chloroform is a common lab chemical - you can find it lying around in many labs.

Ruining their entire lives is not going to solve anything.

Their lives aren't being ruined. They have shown that they do not have the ethics or judgement to be medical professionals. They can pursue careers in another field.

[–]VelvetJusticeBritish Columbia 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't believe they had actual intent to commit any crime.

They've been studying to become dentists for the better half of a decade. Can you explain what exactly would be accomplished by not permitting them to become dentists? Is not a reprimand and a requirement to undergo some sort of course to become educated and understand why their comments were wrong, enough?

[–]iTorontoOntario 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have shown that they do not have the ethics or judgement to be medical professionals.

In Ontario, the College of Physicians and Surgeons has no problems letting people be medical professionals with PROVEN ethical issues.

http://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2014/11/04/second_gta_physician_no_longer_allowed_to_treat_women.html

[–]coricronOntario -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree with most of your yes's. I wrote a rather lengthy reply last-night on the topic. Feel free to view it and offer comment:

http://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/2rr7ub/dalhousies_dental_hysteria/cniy1lk

[–]rickjaw 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lets just imprison or hang anyone that makes lewd jokes!

(*this is sarcasm)

[–]newcomer_ts -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Ask yourself just two questions... how deep does the group thinking have to be ingrained in their lifestyle and their thoughts to do this so publicly... and two, if the target of their incendiary comments was your daughter or sister or someone you know, how'd you feel... would you say to her "deal with it that's what guys do"... probably not.

I don't know anyone who has ever done something as brazen as this but if YOU do and you're still friends... you are a weak person.

[–]_atwork_ 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (11子コメント)

if only there were some sort of "thought police" that get rid of these sick people from interacting with us normals. No boy should ever talk about a girl he'd like to bone in public, we're too classy to do that. No boy should ever talk about or glorify violence, its not in human nature so not sure what happened to these delinquents. Can't we have some sort of genetic pre-screening so we can just preemptively lock up these monsters?

[–]newcomer_ts -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Way to exaggerate my point and seriously attenuate what those students wrote.

[–]_atwork_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

we may not have free speech in canada, but we do have section 2 in the charter. This speech was neither obscene or hate speech so its not illegal.

Someone is always someone elses son or daughter, it carries no water whether or not a person has parents because by definition of being born they do. YOU are the weak person, and a bastard, for trying to appeal to emotions in such a way.

[–]newcomer_ts -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Are you telling me you and your friends regularly make jokes to your female friends by invoking "chloroform" or "hate fuck"?

Are you by any chance a dentistry student at Dalhousie?

[–]_atwork_ -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, but I defend their right to do so.

heres an ELI5 thread that lays out the basic concept of why we need to allow this crap in society, and I totally agree. Its a VERY slippery slope once you start criminalizing speech you don't agree with. http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2rc5um/eli5_why_arent_subs_such_as_rgreatapes_and/

[–]newcomer_ts 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

but I defend their right to do so

I never understood how pornography and misogyny ended up to be martyred topics for freedom of speech while whistleblowers on Government's and Corporate illegal actions get imprisoned or their lives destroyed.

It's almost as if someone is trying to mock the phrase "freedom of speech".

[–]newimpartial -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I doubt very much that jokes about sexual assault would be protected speech in Canada, under these circumstances. Also note that we are talking about sanctions by private bodies(a university and a professional body), not the criminal justice system...

Edit: I am entertained by the downvotes on what is clearly a relevant comment. What's up, Canada?

[–]_atwork_ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

a PUBLIC university, also the person I was responding to was NOT talking about sanctions, you must have them confused with another post.

[–]newimpartial -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is "freedom of speech" relevant, except in relation to possible sanctions? After all, nobody here is talking about pre-emptive restrictions to speech, so the topic has to be possible consequences...

And... downvoting. :)

[–]newimpartial -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, public universities are not public spaces like parks or street corners. They are self-governing "collegial" spaces, i.e., private.

Edit: yay! Downvoting!

[–]captainburnz -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Only 2 of them participated in the 'hate fuck' jokes and didn't mention actually drugging their classmates.

You're using emotional reasoning with the "what if it was your female relative" line of reasoning.

[–]newimpartial 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There were only two votes in the 'hate fuck' poll?