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Dalhousie’s Dental Hysteria - Margaret Wente (theglobeandmail.com)

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[–]nsups -7 ポイント-6 ポイント  (26子コメント)

Imagine if these guys were instead going to be graduating to become teachers, and they were joking about chloroforming and raping kids. Is it still okay because they were just joking and it was a private group? If not, why is okay to joke about raping women, but not okay to joke about raping children?

[–]thebelowisnotfactual 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

What the living fuck are you talking about? The issue would only be worse if it was children. Please give me an example where teachers commented about raping children and still kept their job. Gonna need a source on that one.

[–]nsups 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Thats exactly what I'm saying. They are both bad! So why do some people think that joking about raping women is okay, but joking about raping kids crosses a line?

[–]thebelowisnotfactual 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

First off, in your scenario the teacher already has the job. Second, opposed to heinous online comments in a private facebook group, where are these teachers talking about raping children. Do people not understand the importance of context?

[–]mismos00 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (14子コメント)

People are allowed to joke about anything they want to. This is thought crime you are trying to enforce. Why can't I say whatever I want to my friends, and why are my personal conversations a form for your moral judgement?

[–]CatchHerInTheEye 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

NO. ONE. IS. SAYING. THAT. THESE. PEOPLE. ARE. CRIMINAL.

WHY the fuck are people equating this with criminal behaviour? since when does expelling a student only occur through them doing a criminal activity? people keep acting like expelling them from school is the same as putting them in jail and branding them a criminal, which it is not. It is far more similar as being fired from a job.

[–]NGRoachClip 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because the punishment is almost severe enough that people who think it is warranted MUST feel they have done something illegal. WHY the fuck do people want to ruin their lives by expelling these students? Have you see the photos? Do you truly think these comments are worth expelling 12 students leaving them in horrible debt situation never with the means the to pay them back? What about other options aside from expulsion that might actually teach a lesson?

[–]mismos00 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's an expression, 'thought crime', from an important book about the overreach by higher powers into our private personal lives. It's a book you should read and applies aptly to this situation.

[–]nsups -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

You can say whatever you want, but there are some situations where saying certain things isn't appropriate, and if you get caught, there can be consequences.

[–]mismos00 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

And one of those situations is students making bad (and old and tired) jokes on a private form? If they said those things to any of the girls faces THAT would be inappropriate and I would be the first one to say they should be suspended or expelled. But they said it privately to friends and they're just students, not politicians or judges. I'm sure if we spied on everyone's private lives very few of us would qualify to be dentists in your eyes. Maybe we should be snooping on the porn viewing habits of dentists and doctors to ensure they are morally righteous enough for the karma police? Then again I'm of the opinion that what you find funny has no bearing or your moral status as a human, but what do I know.

[–]nsups -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It ceased being private when it came out in public. If you and your friends are caught being douchebags in private, don't be surprised when you are treated like douchebags in public.

[–]mismos00 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's still their private exchanges. Just because I go into your computer and share your emails and web searches with the world doesn't mean it's no longer your private information, it means your privacy has been violated. And being treated like a douchebag is different from having the media try and ruin your student career. It's not illegal to be a douche. And if someone dislikes me because they think my humor is twisted, then they aren't really a true friend now, are they?

[–]aradil 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

While I don't think expulsion is the correct answer here, I do think that higher education at a private institution is a privilege, not a right, and barring protection against discrimination, you are only there with the permission of the school. You violate their policies and you are done.

If you can be expelled for having consensual gay sex in your own private residence, you sure as fuck can be expelled for this.

[–]mismos00 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree to all of that, except being expelled for having any kind of consensual sex in private.

[–]aradil 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people are being expelled for that. And I think it would be pretty ridiculous for people to be suspended for this.

My point was that universities can expel people for anything they want, apparently even things that are somewhat protected under the charter.

[–]CLB2015 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's not about it being "illegal". These students were six months away from being dental surgeons. Their FB page posts are their own words! All professions have standards of conduct - especially medical professions. There are strict ethical codes for the regulatory bodies i.e the "Colleges of Dental Surgery" across the country who license them to practice.

They named and posted photos of their fellow female students and made degrading and sexist comments/polls about them. They posted sexist and degrading "jokes" - again sometimes naming their female colleagues.

There may be an undue firestorm in the media - but you know what - if they had just taken the FB page down last summer when the first complaints came in, if they had just chosen in their panicky poll before the shit hit the fan to publicly or privately apologize and shut it down instead of go balls to the wall "I should be able to say I want to hatefuck whoever I want without someone going running to the girls", if they had just stopped - none of this would be happening.

It's not about someone disliking them because their humour was twisted - they didn't act in a way that makes them eligible for the profession they chose or to be in the classroom with their peers.

Simple as that. If they ever graduate, it will be their professional licensing/governing bodies that determine their fate. But all along, they have been the masters of this from the start.

[–]mismos00 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree to all of this except, "they didn't act in a way that makes them eligible for the profession they chose or to be in the classroom with their peers." As you say later in your post, that's for the professional licensing body to decide, not you or the mob that has come to the fore in the media. And whether your private sense of humor and sexual thoughts can be brought into the debate as to whether you're considered an ethical individual, I think, has already crossed the line down the slippery slope.

[–]CLB2015 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I said it because the Ontario licensing college and at least one other have publicly stated that they either want the names of the men who posted on the FB page or they will be asking all Dal grads to prove they were not members of the page. This has been widely reported. They will not be automatically eligible for licensing because of what they have done.

This doesn't necessarily mean they won't eventually be licensed - they may be given a license under strict conditions, or have to complete additional courses in medical ethics, or be under supervision for a few years, etc.

I don't think "the mob" is actually influencing any of the people in charge of handling this - I do agree there are crazies on both sides of the debate - "hang 'em high" and "this is all because of those bitchy feminazis" I prefer to ignore them.

You don't have to agree with "hang 'em high" to agree that what they did was totally unacceptable within their peer group and as senior dental surgery students.

You don't have to think that the "feminazis" are all to blame for this to agree that the rhetoric for punishment has gone too far.

Believe me, the regulating/licensing colleges will be far more brutal with these guys than any of their fellow female classmates. I meant "fellow female classmates would have been".

What they did - even if it had never become public but was quietly leaked to the professional licensing body after they graduated - is so far off the chart of being acceptable that their asses would have been fried anyways. They just wouldn't have had the public humiliation.

And as I said - they could have avoided all this by not being so incredibly stupid about it - makes you wonder about their fundamental character.

[–]mismos00 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree... it's not TOTAL unacceptable. It's unacceptable to some people when it's in a public forum or when people don't understand the personalities involved or the context of the conversation. Guy friends when they get together say crazy shit. I'm a good guy, my friends are good people, but when we get together we get silly and try to shock each other with the most offensive shit we can say to each other. It's a common form of social bonding between guys. I'm not saying all guys share this kind of sense of humor, but most do in an environment where they feel they are with friends that aren't trying to scrutinize everything they say on ethical grounds. Its a common thing if you've every been around guys, or have even seen a male stand up comedian. And Dal is certainly feeling a lot of pressure from the 'feminazis' as you call them that are dominating the media on this issue.

Again, it's not so far off the chart... these are jokes you will hear on Family Guy, It's always Sunny in Philadelphia, and in the acts of famous stand up comedians like Louis CK and Bill Burr. You, nor does anybody involved, know the context or personalities involved like you do with the comedians listed above where you can judge that they don't really mean it (or however people justify it in those cases). Some of these shows have actually much more offensive content, but some nobody students are a much easier target, don't you think? Now I'm actually curious if you find most stand up comedians offensive??? I know many people do, I just don't think we need to protect people from being offended.

There is a difference between being sexist and liking sexist humor. I don't think as many people as I thought understand this. And what isn't humor in those post is just an expression of sexual desires. If they expressed they just wanted to fuck another classmate would that be bad? No, I don't think. But people are absolutely conflating 'hate-sex' with rape... which it isn't. If I tell my friend in private I want to fuck my coworker or that I think my coworker is ugly, there is nothing wrong with that. If my friend goes and tells my coworker my coworker may be upset, but that would be my friends fault, and I believe it's the person that leaked these posts that really hurt these girls and that's what was stupid.

It's obvious you find their humor offensive... so you truly believe someone's personal and private taste in humor is grounds to determine someones moral character? What about their taste in pornography? Imagine if all the male students at Dal had their porn habits leaked to the media... there wouldn't be any male students left at Dal. lol

[–]Oakislife -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why does it matter what profession they are studying? And don't you worry your little face, if there were a couple of "dead baby" jokes on that PRIVET site they would have just as many people calling them pedophiles.

[–]mismos00 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I bet pediatricians love dead baby jokes. I was at a party with doctors one time and we played Cards Against Humanity and let me tell you, doctors can be sick twisted people and it makes sense why. They have to callus themselves to death and pain of others on a regular basis. I'm sure it's a great release for them to joke about things that probably affect them at a deeper level.