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DiscussionWhy I love Ron. (self.harrypotter)

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[–]AlohoMoria 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (51子コメント)

You truly hate Hermione... Didn't she let you copy her homework or something?

[–]GalleonKing[S] 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (48子コメント)

I quite like her actually, it's just Ron is always made out to be the bad guy in those situations.

[–]ObversaA true Janian reply! 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (47子コメント)

Calling Hermione a "stuck up...heartless...little bitch" seems to say otherwise.

"Bitch is a word we use culturally to describe any woman who is strong, angry, uncompromising and, often, uninterested in pleasing men. We use the term for a woman on the street who doesn't respond to men's catcalls or smile when they say, 'Cheer up, baby, it can't be that bad.' We use it for the woman who has a better job than a man and doesn't apologize for it. We use it for the woman who doesn't back down from a confrontation. So let's not be disingenuous. Is it a bad word? Of course it is. As a culture, we've done everything possible to make sure of that, starting with a constantly perpetuated mindset that deems powerful women to be scary, angry and, of course, unfeminine -- and sees uncompromising speech by women as anathema to a tidy, well-run world." - Andi Zeisler, Bitch magazine

[–]CaptainCrea 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So, going off OP's assertion that they actually like Hermione, I'll say this:

I'm not a fan of the word bitch either gendered connotatiooooons :( . I do think you've both got some good points to make, but I think the quote you posted from Andi Zeisler is a little inflammatory in this situation.

I didn't see in any of the examples that OP was criticizing Hermione for acting strong, angry, uncompromising, OR uninterested in pleasing men - I would say most of the moments OP pointed out were moments that showcased Hermione's actual character flaws. Put simply, Hermione's personality at the start of Book 1 would be considered condescending whether she was male or female (omg Hermione, you can't just barge into someone's train car and tell them they have dirt on their face). Hermione's decision to go behind their backs about the Firebolt was sneaky (though necessary), whether the character was male or female. Hermione ignoring Ron's very real concerns about Crookshanks eating his pet is callous, regardless of her gender. Hermione grew up a lot over the course of the books, and she is one of my favorite literary characters ever, but she could occasionally be very, very oblivious to the feelings of those around her - hey, kinda like Ron! It's no wonder they fought so much.

That being said, the word bitch is harsh to throw at an 11 year old, and as people become more socially aware, not so cool to throw around in general. There are better ways to describe her behavior, as I just did in my previous paragraph. To lay all my cards on the table - reddit is a hard place to discuss gender inequality. Instead of just quoting something at OP which seems to accuse them of using gendered speech discriminatorily, it might be better to quantify why "bitch" is not a preferable word to use, and how the points about Hermione could be better argued.

Also, I'd like to interject to OP that Ron was not supportive of Harry in 5th year despite Harry being a "little bitch". Ron (and Hermione) were supportive of Harry in 5th year because Harry was deeply traumatized and right on top of his breaking point. Because they are both good friends (and a good deal more sympathetic than a large percentage of the Wizarding World and readers of the novel...).

[–]GalleonKing[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

the word bitch is harsh to throw at an 11 year old,

I would never call an actual 11 year old a bitch, just a fictional one who I am trying to quickly sum up an aspect of her character because her detailed personality isn't relevant in this discussion.

Also I understand how people have gender connotations with the word bitch and maybe it's wrong of me but I never have, I don't think most people do, and I really appreciate you trying to defend me a bit. :)

[–]CaptainCrea 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

:) I figured it was just humorous haha - I'm fairly sure you wouldn't call a child a bitch IRL. I thought your post was fun to read (I'm a huge fan of Ron and his character progression).

As for the gender connotations, I would say I have issues with it depending on the situation. In your post, I didn't really have a problem with it - because as other people pointed out, it wasn't in reference to any gendered issues. It's only when people use it specifically in the context of trying to attack someone's female-ness (like, someone calling a girl a bitch because she rejects their romantic advances), that I have issues D:

I understand that people currently have different feelings about gender issues, and I'd rather come to an understanding rather than just argue or accuse :)

[–]Marx0r 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You can't quote a third party's opinion on the word "bitch" and hold OP to that standard. It's a nebulous word with a lot of different meanings, there's no reason to assume OP meant anything other than exactly what they indicated it to mean.

[–]GalleonKing[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah i'm kindof offended at the attempt to make me out to be some sort of women-hating asshole because I thought a fictional character was being bitchy...

[–]Marx0r -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's no shortage of morons on the internet, especially when you get into SJW territory.

[–]stormcynk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Sure, lets quote from a feminist magazine specifically named for their vendetta against that word. OP can swap out bitch for asshole/douche/dick/cuntwagon/shithead and it means what he was intending.

[–]tumbleweedsx2You shouldn't have done that. Crucio! 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Calling somebody a cunt is far, far worse than sayng bitch

[–]Walt_Titman 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'd say that partially relies on what area you're from. Sure it's taboo in the US, but it's fairly common in other countries.

[–]tumbleweedsx2You shouldn't have done that. Crucio! 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think it should be cleared up on reddit that the word cunt is still taboo is every english speaking country. I'm Australian and everybody on here likes to joke that it's fine to use in everyday conversation, but I have never genuinely heard it used to apply to somebody else, and if somebody was to use it in a derogatory way it would be a major, major fuck up

[–]GalleonKing[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the word cunt is still taboo is every english speaking country

I'll buy you a drink if you ever come to Ireland and I guarantee you get called a daft cunt by the end of the night.

[–]OneRunJunior 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's strange because when I was in Australia (Darwin) I was very surprised to hear it in casual conversation all over the place.

[–]aftersilence 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Depends where you are. It's generally more accepted in rougher, more outback areas. Darwin is a prime example. You wouldn't hear a city-dweller in the centre of Sydney or Melbourne or even in the suburbs of any of the capital cities just casually throw it around though, which I think is what /u/tumbleweedsx2 is getting at.

[–]tumbleweedsx2You shouldn't have done that. Crucio! -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

haha that is Darwin though

The word itself can be used jokingly and in normal conversation sure, but I'd never even consider using it against someone, and have never heard it used that way

[–]Kalastrielle 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to come to Ireland then. Cunt is very much a regular part of conversations. It's definitely not taboo.

[–]Yazzz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I think it depends as well. I'm from the South (US) and my wife would prefer me to call her a cunt over a bitch. She thinks bitch is much more degrading. (Not that I call her either haha, we have just talked about that before.)

[–]Walt_Titman 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm from the South as well, and I only know a couple people who are deeply offended by the word, more so than bitch and similar words, I mean.

Most of the people I know don't have a preference in the cunt vs bitch debate. It's just that bitch is so much more prevalent. Not many people call others cunts around here.

[–]jmg83 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't ever come to the UK, then.

[–]GalleonKing[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You get that I can think someone is being bitchy but still like them? I disagree entirely with your definition by the way, it's written with poor understanding of the etymology of the word and from a very angry-feminist (note: not feminist POV,) POV and I think she ignores the common use of the word in order to try and make a poorly thought out attack on men, who we all know are the only people who would dare use the word bitch and only against women.

[–]smooshetka 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I got that feeling from this, too. Right about Ron, but seems to dislike Hermione.

[–]GalleonKing[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've had to defend this a lot, I do like Hermione and I could write something of equal length on her, but this was about Ron so I only mentioned her in relation to him being good or to explain commonly criticised aspects of his personality.