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Guys, we need to talk. (self.Portland)

OatClusters が /r/Portland に 投稿

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[–]sayhermano 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (50子コメント)

We care. We also have no control over the voting system. We have users that stalk us and threaten us in other subs. We have people posting racist garbage and fake news and spam blogs to worry about, and every time we try to fix something people throw a fit. You'll notice no one in this thread is proposing a solution to this problem? There isn't one.

[–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Because it's not a problem. Why should a post about a stolen car bother anyone? If you don't like it don't read it. Move on. Nothing to see here!

[–]brooksyx -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Because why should you even go on reddit. Go back to craigslist.

[–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nope. I'm a 52 year old lesbian, but nice try.

[–]Osiris32[M] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You too, wheeldog. You're a regular user here, but your recent behavior shows you are knowingly trying to stir the pot. The mod team already has it's plate full with several issues, don't add to those issues.

[–]wheeldog 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see it as calling people on their bullshit. If that aint welcome maybe they are right and this sub is out of control. I've added more useful comments than most of these malcontents and if you guys need to kick me out go for it.

[–]Osiris32[M] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was totally uncalled for. Do not engage in comment behavior like that again or you will be banned.

[–][削除されました]  (10子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]sayhermano 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The last time I tried to aggressively enforce that rule there was an enormous thread calling me out personally and people were saying I should step down. That was almost a year ago and this community hasn't changed a bit. Maybe you think you know how shitty reddit is but I bet you've never had your account brigaded or gotten so many harassing pms you had to go to the admin team or consider deleting your account (this happened to one of us last week). I don't even post here often under this account because I've been stalked and out of the four people I've probably had the easiest time. You make it sound like it's easy and we've just never tried to fix it.

    [–]epicrepairtime 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    If a post gets downvotes it means the user base doesn't want that content and that is a major component of how reddit is supposed to work (not relying on mods heavily to police topics/comments).

    Complaining about downvotes is pointless.

    There are so many "stolen _____ halp!" threads lately (and pictures of fog...) that it is no wonder they are being voted down.

    I am on this sub WAY too much for my own good, and have seen it go through a lot of phases and moderation efforts.

    I personally feel that the current group of mods does an excellent job at removing blatantly offensive material/spam, while otherwise letting predditors define the content by voting.

    The community is supposed to largely self police (and discussion threads like this are a means of achieving that).

    I'd be quite reluctant to ask for heavier mod intervention.

    This isn't /r/askscience (nor is it meant to be /r/circlejerk) so heavy moderation isn't really needed (again, just my perspective-I like how varied the content is).

    [–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]epicrepairtime 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      reddit is a shithole and this sub is no exception.

      Why are you (presumably) subscribed then?

      If I felt that way about this community I'd step away.

      I have unsub'd from numerous reddits, and even started my own when I felt like content on here was saturating the sub and needed a new home to stop drowning out a variety of content.

      You have a lot more faith in redditors than I do.

      I'm usually a pretty active participant, because that seems like the best way to try and keep things interesting and civil.

      [–]globaljustin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      epicrepairtime you're just wrong...none of your points justify trolling/rudeness

      redditors do a crappy job of self-policing, and reddit.com in general encourages trolling...those are true facts that you can acknowledge and still like/use reddit

      [–]Timtankard 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      The only places I'd consider worse than reddit are 4chan and 8chan.

      Stormfront? Pro-anorexia forums? Child porn trading sites? Conservapedia? Fox Nation? Perez Hilton? Reddit is pretty terrible, and there are subreddits as bad as anything, but there are vast oceans of worse websites and communities.

      [–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You really think reddit is pretty terrible? I don't. I love reddit. It just has trolls like every other place.. but I've learned so much from this subreddit. ANYONE can learn how to LOVE this subreddit if they just stop trolling for one second and read and respond to people kindly.

      [–]Natural_Question 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      We should have one weekend without mods. It'll be like a field trip to 8chan

      [–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well it would be a good way to root out all the trolls. Mods come back on Monday and read everything and start banning people left and right. I like the idea.

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (29子コメント)

      mods have alot of power, don't cop out...

      there are all kinds of steps the /r/portland mods could take but you just don't do it, for dumb reasons

      [–]Discord_Dancing 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

      What steps then? We'd love some ideas, seriously.

      Give us a list of ideas.

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (12子コメント)

      1. delete trolling comments

      2. delete trolling users

      3. comment in threads explaining why some trolling was removed

      4. in general, comment in ways that encourages thoughtful conversation not 'peanut gallery' one-off comments

      [–]Discord_Dancing 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

      Being rude is not trolling.

      And if encouraging thoughtful conversation was within a moderators ability then 99.9% of the internet would possibly not be a shithole, but alas. That is a tad above our pay grade.

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

      Being rude is not trolling.

      All trolling is rude...what's your point?

      In general, reddit seems to confuse 'flamebait' with 'trolling'...see, trolling is a comment that appears to be genuine but is using logical fallacies to provoke an argument or derail a conversation.

      trolling, by definition, requires context. Flamebait is not so context-dependent....

      so yes, being rude is 'trolling' in most common parliance as well

      And if encouraging thoughtful conversation was within a moderators ability then 99.9% of the internet would possibly not be a shithole, but alas. That is a tad above our pay grade.

      this is why you fail...you accept defeat before you even try!

      if you used the analytical part of your brain, you'd see that trolling is easy to spot and control given the powers a moderator has on reddit

      reddit's problem is, they call flamebait 'trolling' and most trolling is considered productive converstation...which is why reddit sucks often

      if someone asks for help locating a Subaru, and you take the time just to type about how their request for help is dumb, then that's trolling

      [–]Discord_Dancing 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

      I'll agree that trolling is rude, but simply being rude is not trolling.

      Not being nice is not trolling. Not caring about something (like a stolen car) someone else cares about is not trolling.

      Taking the time to say something that someone else might not appreciate is not trolling.

      if you used the analytical part of your brain

      If I used the analytical part of my brain I would realize that moderating for "sunny dispositions" is completely unrealistic, and quite frankly unacceptable in a place that values an open discussion.

      you'd see that trolling is easy to spot and control given the powers a moderator has on reddit

      You don't even seem to really have a grasp upon what is "trolling," and may I remind you that everything you see in this subreddit is what hasn't been removed. We do remove trolls, infact we deal with some pretty fucking annoying ones on a weekly basis (these are actual trolls, not your "they're not coddling my feelings" version of "trolling").

      [–]globaljustin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

      You don't even seem to really have a grasp upon what is "trolling,"

      i addressed this, and you ignored it...'flamebait' is blatant, on the face baiting for an argument or rudeness generated to provoke a response...'trolling' is, on the face, not 'flame' but if you put it into context has the same effect as 'flamebait'

      here is the definitions from slashdot.org/faq to help you understand:

      Normal The default setting attached to every comment when you have moderation privileges.

      Offtopic A comment which has nothing to do with the story it's linked to (song lyrics, obscene ascii art, etc).

      Flamebait Comments whose sole purpose is to insult and enrage.

      Troll A Troll is similar to Flamebait, but slightly more refined. This is a prank comment intended to provoke indignant (or just confused) responses.

      Redundant Redundant posts add no new information; they take up space with information either in the original post, the attached links, or lots of previous comments.

      Insightful An Insightful comment makes you think, or puts a new spin on a given story. Examples: an analogy you hadn't thought of, or a telling counterexample.

      Interesting If you believe a comment to be Interesting (and on-topic), it is.

      Informative Informative comments add new information to explain the circumstances hinted at by a particular story, fill in "The Other Side" of an argument, etc.

      Funny Choose "Funny" if you think the comment is actually funny, not just because it seems intended to be.

      Overrated Sometimes comments are disproportionately up-moderated—this probably means several moderators saw it at nearly the same time, and their cumulative scores exaggerated its merit. (Example: A knock-knock joke at +5, Funny.) Such a comment is Overrated.

      Underrated Likewise, some comments get smashed lower than they might deserve. Choosing "Underrated" means you think it should be read by more people.

      [–]Discord_Dancing 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      No one cares about Slashdot.org.

      [–]globaljustin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      read the definitions I posted...that's the part relevant to our discussion...

      note the definitions listed for 'flamebait' and 'trolling' and compare to reddit's definition and your personal definition

      understand that many reddit comments are what slashdot.org moderates as 'trolling'

      [–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Hey you ever modded a forum this big? I have. You should try it sometime and see how you do!

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      yes i have, i moderate on slashdot.org

      we were dealing with trolls before many of you were out of diapers ;) in the 90s before the internet had cooled

      if you don't know how slashdot works you might want to have a look...it was reddit/4chan before those existed

      [–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      I'm 52.

      [–]globaljustin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      how long have you been participating in moderated internet forums?

      you can be any age and still be new to the internet

      [–]wheeldog 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Only since 2000. Not nearly as long as most, but my age brings bearing that I am not a fly by night asstard young male just out to rile things up.

      [–]globaljustin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      yeah you don't seem like that to me

      i mention the age thing b/c if you used the internet in the 90s, especially forums and chat rooms, you've seen how different things can be

      compared to the 90s, reddit is so jam-packed with trolls/flamebait it boggles the mind...but comparatively NOW, reddit is one of the few places a random person can find helpful conversation

      you might have been part of forums like I'm talking about in the early 2000s...there were just fewer idiots...the internet wasn't pervasive as it is now and many people just didn't see any reward, even lizard-brain type reward, for trolling...now people feel a mental reward when they troll b/c there is more importance placed on internet discussion

      [–]wheeldog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yeah, true that. I was a mod on a msn forum in 2002 or so. It was pretty small, just about 800 people or so. I like to think I did a real swell job but who knows. I am still Facebook friends with a lot of the people from that forum to this day.

      [–]globaljustin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      right? for some reason those connections last longer...

      [–]sayhermano 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      What power? You can make your own sub right now and see all the powers we have. There are no "dumb reasons" I have been extremely transparent about how I moderate this sub and the rest of the mod team has as well. There are no solutions available to us to change the tone of a community of 40k people.

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      except you can delete any comment and ban any users...that power

      if you can't think of how to properly use it to improve then you should give other people moderator power

      [–]Osiris32 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      We have exactly TWO forms of power: the power to remove comments/posts and the power to ban individual accounts. Sounds like a lot, but I know of several dozen incidents where banned individuals have come back on new accounts with the express purpose of making things worse.

      And while I definitely have free time on my hands, I do not have the time to baby sit every thread all the time in order catch every single incident of rule breaking. Some of out threads can get rather large rather quickly, it's unreasonable to think the four of us and automod can get everything.

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      even the way you TYPE shows you're defensive and know you could do more...

      you can do more with what TWO forms of power you have than you are doing...

      part of it is you refuse to use your own judgement

      [–]Osiris32 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Okay, but realize YOU'D be one of the people to get banned. You've stepped over the line yourself many times in small ways, which we've let slide. Can you honestly tell me if I banned you now for past transgressions you wouldn't send me hate pms filled with threats, or go to one of the various anti-mod subs and create a drama storm about it, or come back with alts expressly to scree with the sub?

      Because all of the above have happened to me, which is why we exercise discretion and only go after the worst. The death threats especially bother me, since I go to the meetups pretty ofteb and are therefore recognizable.

      [–]globaljustin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Okay, but realize YOU'D be one of the people to get banned.

      bullshit...i call bullshit...i do not 'step over the line' how you are insinuating at all

      i'm not trolling and I'm actually engaging in productive conversation...

      the fact that you'd ban me shows you don't understand how any of this works, at all

      you'd just be banning me for knowing more than you and making you look bad....Osiris32 you really are wrong and need to change your entire philosophy about moderating

      [–]globaljustin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      seriously, if you say my behavior is "bannable" then you really shouldn't be trusted to moderate.

      the only thing I've done that moderators of /r/portland have taken note of is ask if /r/portland should make a sub-reddit for Oregonian articles...i haven't made threats or harrassed anyone

      iirc, you were obtuse and driven by ego and emotion in that conversation as well...which is exactly the kind of attitude that bad moderators exhibit

      again, if you think i'd be one to get "banned" for trolling then you really have zero communication skills and analytical judgement