Wow. Because it’s totally crazy to want equality for your friends and family members in their field of choice, and not be personally interested in it.
Nobody is stopping women from being computer programmers. If you whine about there not being enough women pursuing a computer programming career, yet make no effort to become one yourself, you’re just making noise.
"Nobody is stopping women."
Except, you know, cultural norms and a male-centered STEM education system.
Also for the record I AM making an effort to become one, and I strongly appreciate the support that my female friends give me in breaking social norms and pursuing a career path I’m often told I shouldn’t because I’m a girl or because I should be into English or humanities.
How is the STEM education system male centered?! Is there a height requirement? Do you need to bench 200 pounds to get in? Does a straight woman decide who gets in based on which applicant she finds sexiest?
You get the grades, you fork over the tuition, you get in, period.
I saw a post about this on LinkedIn one day and wanted to reach through the computer screen to slap the woman silly.
I took a computational linguistics class last year and literally sat in my professors office in tears one day because I couldn’t figure out some of the code we were writing in that class. Then a couple of days later I emailed him and told him I figured it out finally and his response was:
Yeah… this really looks like men don’t want women programming.
Women don’t go into programming professions because they don’t WANT to.
I love programming, but I don’t want to be a programmer. I have other interests that are high above programming. But I have something I can fall back on if need be. I actually heavily disappointed my father, grandfather, and uncle because I didn’t become an engineer or programmer because they all dreamed of me following in their footsteps
You need to look at the REAL reasons you didn’t get into your program. Did you meet the min requirements? Don’t blame a lot of men being in the room being the problem. Women wanting to go after an education in programming or engineering get priorities BECAUSE they are the minority in the field, but they still can’t let you just skate in not meeting their requirements.
And it amazes me that you never see feminists complaining about the lack of female soldiers out there… quelle surprise…
^ The problem is not men that don’t want women programming nor is it that women don’t want to program. It’s being surrounded by a culture that ultimately pushes women away. It’s a culture where most females don’t feel welcome when they enter. I am a top student in class, a tutor, a TA, I have a job in the industry. I have had countless students come up to me and say “Siham, I don’t know what I would do if you weren’t here” after tutoring and lab sessions. And regardless of all of this, I still feel unwelcome a lot of the time. I don’t feel like I fit in a lot of the time, I feel like regardless of all my accomplishments, I still have to prove myself worthy of being the 1 girl in a class of 50+ guys.
Because there are so few females in the field, those that enter it often feel like they have to be the best. Because if they’re not, then it looks bad on ALL women trying to enter and often times, they drop out of the program because they might not be THE BEST.
And regardless of what “priorities” females may get in engineering, the field is still male centered. A Google image search of “programmer” gets you almost all white guys. I got the highest grade on an exam once and when the professor called out my name, he pronounced it like a guys and was surprised when I raised my hand. You enter the CS Lounge on my campus and it’s all guys playing video games. The programmer/engineer stereotype is a guy. I was once in a group project and the guys went “don’t worry siham, we’ll do all the programming and you can just do the documentation at the end, that’s the easiest part”. If I had a penny for every time I offered a solution that got dismissed and another male in the class offered the same solution and got praised, I would be a fucking millionaire. Or a penny for every time I got talked over when offering a solution. Or a penny for every time a sexist comment was made in some of my classes and the lounge area.
You can tell everyone to tough it out, but its a lot easier said than done. And experience after experience after experience adds up to a whole lot of self doubt. And sometimes, after being surrounded with things that make you uncomfortable and constantly feeling like you have to prove yourself, it’s easier to just pack up and go somewhere where you feel more appreciated.
Original poster here. I’m going to go at your response piece by piece, since I have different responses to each point you make.
I feel like regardless of all my accomplishments, I still have to prove myself worthy of being the 1 girl in a class of 50+ guys.
Because there are so few females in the field, those that enter it often feel like they have to be the best. Because if they’re not, then it looks bad on ALL women trying to enter and often times, they drop out of the program because they might not be THE BEST.
Well honestly, those are just your feelings. They are not fact. In a classroom setting, do you really think anyone cares about the academic performance of someone they don’t associate with? All your life, did you EVER get that test paper back and wonder “hmm, that girl three seats to the right and five seats ahead, I wonder what she got. Is she the best? No? Lol why is she even here.” Of course you didn’t. Nobody thinks that. Nobody cares if you’re not the best; frankly, nobody cares about you at all. People care about themselves and their group of friends, that’s it. If you can’t focus on your studies because you think everyone in the room is breathing down your neck and judging your every line of code, seek therapy.
And regardless of what “priorities” females may get in engineering, the field is still male centered. A Google image search of “programmer” gets you almost all white guys. I got the highest grade on an exam once and when the professor called out my name, he pronounced it like a guys and was surprised when I raised my hand.
Don’t you think it’s possible that he just didn’t know how to pronounce “Siham”? It’s the first time I myself have ever even heard your name. See-ham, right? How do you even pronounce that as a “male”? Sigh-ham? See-hah-m? Seh-ham? The dude had no idea how to say your name. There was nothing sexist about it.
You enter the CS Lounge on my campus and it’s all guys playing video games. The programmer/engineer stereotype is a guy.
This part honestly just pissed me off. I’m a gamer myself, and so are virtually all my friends, male AND female. If you’re not a gamer yourself, cool, whatever, it’s not for everyone, I don’t care. But now you’re complaining that geek guys are being geek guys in their moments of relaxation, and this makes you feel unwelcome? Seriously? What, should men in programming campuses be forced to sit around tables with cups of coffee and shoot the breeze with each other in a stereotypically girly fashion, just so you feel comfortable? A guy is playing a videogame during his relaxation time and you’re what, traumatized? With all due respect, fuck you. I again reiterate that you should seek therapy if guys playing videogames in their spare time makes you feel unwelcome being in that same building, but if you do feel unwelcome, maybe it’s because people don’t appreciate it when you walk into a room and glower at them for their hobbies.
I was once in a group project and the guys went “don’t worry siham, we’ll do all the programming and you can just do the documentation at the end, that’s the easiest part”.
It’s easy to read a lot into something like this, but how do you know it was because you’re a woman? This kind of thing happened to me as a guy. Maybe they were all friends and wanted to do the whole project their way, meet after class on their terms, turn the whole project into what their social lives would center around for the next week, so they just gave you a standalone part because they didn’t really know you. It happened to me. Not everything is about gender.
If I had a penny for every time I offered a solution that got dismissed and another male in the class offered the same solution and got praised, I would be a fucking millionaire. Or a penny for every time I got talked over when offering a solution.
Literally the exact same answer? In programming, a single misplaced ; can cause a million lines of code to do nothing. Was it the exact same answer? When you were speaking, did you raise your hand and take the auditorium, or did you just begin whispering in the corner? Again, these are things that I myself had to learn. Or maybe your class really does have a culture of talking over each other. It happened to me even when I was at the goddamn white board, having written it up full of the topic at hand, with the prof asking me directly what he wanted to know. It happens. It’s not about gender.
Or a penny for every time a sexist comment was made in some of my classes and the lounge area.
Now this needs more information. Do you mean real, hateful things? Or are you again just being offended at guys being guys? And before you jump down my throat at “SEE?! YOU JUST WANT THE ‘BOYS WILL BE BOYS’ ATTITUDE”, tell me honestly, have you NEVER said anything disparaging about the male gender in jest to your female friends? I’ll answer for you - yes, you have. With males in the room? Yes, with males in the room. Maybe you expected a fully professional work environment, and maybe even the college expects it - but in the real world, be it classroom or employment, things are said between friends.
You can tell everyone to tough it out, but its a lot easier said than done. And experience after experience after experience adds up to a whole lot of self doubt. And sometimes, after being surrounded with things that make you uncomfortable and constantly feeling like you have to prove yourself, it’s easier to just pack up and go somewhere where you feel more appreciated.
Which again brings us back to therapy. Nobody cares about your grades, nobody cares about the quality of your programs (aside from the prof and the teaching assistants, obviously). In a classroom, nobody but your friends care about you. I don’t know if you expected everyone to dance and sing praise the moment you entered the room as a woman, but honestly, everything you’ve described to me is basically just “the college life”. You’re just making it about your gender because of your own apparent insecurities.
And again, if geek guys being geek guys and playing videogames during break times because that’s just what they enjoy doing offends you, fuck off. How would you like it if men claimed to feel “unappreciated and unwelcome” if you dared to partake in a hobby that you enjoy, in their presence? Would you praise them for speaking to their feelings and “fighting for a more gender equal campus environment”… or would you just call them assholes? I think we both know the answer.
Reblogged from morethanamomentintime