WARNING: This post contains sexual content and images. If these offend you, I ask that you please do not read this post.
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PREFACE: A friend of mine wrote a blog post entitled Gender roles and video games: Or, why do guys play as girls all the time online? I must admit, I had a rather adverse reaction to this post. I got more and more worked up the more of it I read. I was furiously typing all of my counterpoints to my sister over IM (during my regularly scheduled breaks at work of course…) until I realized I had to write a counter-post. And Ted is always up for a little controversy, so I know he can handle the cold, hard truth. ;)
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Some men claim they play female characters so they can stare at a polygonal pixilated ass all day. Some claim they do it because women have more developed personalities. And some claim they do it because they don’t fit the social criteria expected of men, so they feel more comfortable expressing themselves as women. While there may be an element of truth to all of these—I don’t claim that the world at large is lacking in exceptions—I am publicly calling bullshit.
Men play women characters to control women.
The most obvious example of this is the man who likes to dress his female character in close to nothing and swivel the camera angels around while making his character do a pole dancing emote.
While this may appear to be the crudest example, it is the least offensive to me. We all get turned on by specific anatomical features. I will admit to spending a longer time washing my hands in the girls’ bathroom at Red Robin in the Provo Towne Centre Mall simply because of the multiple pictures of shirtless men hanging on the wall (why can’t all Red Robins be like that?). It’s nothing to be ashamed of. And it’s refreshing to hear a couple of my guy friends fully admitting they play cat girls because they are hawt. Because let’s be honest…if you were playing a sneaky female assassin, wouldn’t a size A bust be much more efficient than a size C or D? And how many flat-chest female fantasy characters do we see out there?
Sexy pixels aside, there is a much more potent underlying concern with men playing female characters. It is a common belief that men who play role-playing video games have a hard time existing in the real social world. In some way or another they just don’t make the cut when it comes to expectations for masculinity. According to my friend, many guys deal with this issue by role-playing as females in order to expand their own personas. It is his argument that women can both create and destroy, thus making them much more versatile than the man, who can apparently only destroy.
I want to quote directly from his blog, as the way he worded his argument really illustrates my concern. He said, “…women are complex – they can be the virginal maiden or the powerful femme fatale.” This is a notion that exists at the very core of human thought in our society. Women have two roles to play: the virgin or the femme fatale. Both of these have everything to do with sex. When a man plays a female character, whether he plans to play the virginal maiden or the femme fatale, he is taking control of her sexuality.
My sister and I watch a show called Work of Art on Bravo. It’s a show where a bunch of artists are given a new art challenge every week as they compete to be the “next great Artist”. With only six artists left, they were paired up into three teams, each team being assigned a different set of opposites they had to portray. One team was heaven and hell, another was order and chaos, and the third was male and female.
Coincidentally, the male/female team was comprised of Miles, who was portrayed as the douchiest male, and Jaclyn, who was portrayed as the most insecure, objectified woman in the series (I say “portrayed as” because this is reality TV that has been heavily edited in order to create story lines…no one really knows how these people are in real life). Here is their work of art:
Miles and Jaclyn decided to portray control vs. lack of control in the male/female dichotomy. Miles chose to represent masculine lack of control by building a couple of drywall structures and punching holes in them. He painted one of them with tar. I can’t remember there being a reason other than he liked how the tar looked and another player had some left over (which Miles claims to have masterminded earlier by telling his competitor that tar was hard to work with in order to make him use less of it so he could use it for himself later). Jaclyn chose to represent a woman taking control by photographing herself masturbating standing up and then recreating that photo as a painting.
Throughout each episode, the artists give private testimonials to the camera that the other artists aren’t privy to until the show itself is aired. Throughout the entire brainstorming and planning process of this piece, Miles confessed to the entire world that he manipulated Jaclyn into taking a nude photo of herself. He called it a win/win and gave a sheepish grin to the camera.
I found it fascinating that while Jaclyn claimed to be representing a woman taking control, Miles was behind the scenes snickering at not only how he was ultimately in complete control, but how he was using that control to sexually objectify Jaclyn.
Their piece won.
So, back to the question at hand—why do men role-play female characters? Because they like that women can think for themselves? Hardly. It’s because they like that they are in control. If the type of men that play role-playing games are the type that have lost the control society dictates they must have as men, then it makes perfect sense that these men gravitate towards role-playing female characters. It is the only way they gain back that control they are told they must have.
I want to end by saying I made this post blunt on purpose. I know many will have an initial gut reaction to say, “hey, that’s not true! I would never!” But instead of taking this as a personal attack on you as an individual, think of it as a commentary on a universal reality. You may think you are an exception, but we all grew up in the same male-dominated society. It’s a part of your psyche, whether you care to admit it or not. And recognizing this reality, despite how offensive it might be, is better for everyone than pretending it doesn’t exist.
I might have an opinion on the subject but typing on an iPod ain’t gonna work well for an actual response. Suffice it to say, your assertion is one of a few valid answers for the original question and certainly the least talked about.
I’ll mull this over for a bit before heading to a real keyboard for a proper response.
As one of my very close friends that consistently plays female characters, I am very happy that you aren’t out-right well-I-nevering me. ;)
I sincerely look forward to your response!
An astute, thought-provoking reply.
While I chose to view an adolescent playing a female in D&D as a way to explore the complexity of sexuality, I can easily also see a growing young boy terrified of women, and thus playing that character in order to exert control over something he feels he cannot control nor understand.
Unfortunately, this goes into all kinds of sub-conscious thinking which, as you pointed out, our conscious selves will protest ad nauseum. When it comes to something so deep within our psyche, it’s incredibly hard to prove, but your evidence certainly points towards that claim.
Aspects of control permeate all types of role play, especially when it comes to playing different roles which we might not otherwise play in real life. But I would suggest that even the aspects of control are complicated. Supposing that I play a female gnome in WoW in order to exert control over the concept of female or whichever, what does it say about me when my goals right now are to unlock achievements related to exploration, intelligence, and mastery of lore (raids and fighting at the moment bore me)? Considering the fact that there is very little to do in WoW in terms of sexuality (at least you can measure; I suppose you can always sell your pixel body for gold at Goldshire), is the control over sexuality very dormant and reflexive to insecurities in the real world, or do they manifest themselves in a more aggressive manner? I ask not in jest but in seriousness, because now you’ve got me reconsidering all of my arguments again which only naturally creates more questions.
You play WoW more than I do. I am a text-based girl. And the male/female dynamics of these two types of role-playing games are vastly different. So your insight on how dormant this reality is in WoW is more developed than mine.
Thank you for such a thought out response to my response! And for prompting the response in the first place.
Man, you kick it old skool.
I’ll have to think about it and post something up again. All I can say is this – you are absolutely right when you guess that the MMO playing community is incredibly insecure about gender issues. There is a lot of open homophobia, outrageous machismo, as well as hyper-sensitive guys trying to posture themselves as incredibly in tune and understanding of “women.” Each stance is to assert a type of geeky alpha-male dominance over the rest of the server. It’s fascinating to watch, and someday, my gnome will sit in a tree, wearing a safari hat, scribbling notes while observing an indigenous guild in their wild, natural habitat.
Curse my inability to go more than 2 levels deeper on a comment thread.
In response to your second comment…Jamie and I were joking about Binary Archaeology…finding secrets in old code. But now you have presented Virtual Anthropology.
And I don’t mean real life anthropologists writing about the virtual world. That already exists (read My Tiny Life by Julian Dibbell). I mean an actual virtual anthropologist…a gnome in a safari hat.
(actual virtual?…man, I love the dynamics of the virtual world)
[…] by Ted on July 29, 2010 Edit: My friend Jill wrote a passionate, well-thought out and well-written counterpoint to my blog post which I highly suggest everyone read. Really, read […]
In our chat conversation, I mentioned maybe this whole idea of men controlling women through video games isn’t such a bad thing. If we really do live in a society that demands men exert control over women (and I think we do, in varying degrees based on the sub-set of society you participate in), then maybe it’s even healthy to have a virtual outlet to exert this urge. Men controlling an avatar with boobs in a video game is a lot less damaging than what Miles did to Jaclyn.
But reading this post, I’m not sure I agree with myself anymore. Remember that horrid show “What Would You Do?” where they put hidden cameras all over and put people in extremely uncomfortable situations? One example had a Realtor being extremely racist to a couple from the middle east during an open house. Another had a boss clearly sexually harassing his waitress/employee at a restaurant. The victims and perpetrators were all actors. The point of the show was to see if regular people would step up and say something. The main reason this show offends me is that it ignores the fact that being sexist to someone does not just hurt the direct victim. Regardless if the people did “the right thing” and intervened, they had to witness sexual harassment or bigotry. And while the witnesses aren’t as violated as the primary victim, they are still violated. When you harass one person, you harass the entire room. (And that’s what really grossed me out about that show. They were expanding that room to all of America.)
I’m not sure I’m accurately expressing how this all related. But I’m not sure that using video games as an outlet of deeply ingrained misogyny has any value. Even if a cartoon female character can never actually be a victim, that doesn’t mean there are no victims when men play women characters as a means of exerting control.
And I’m not suggesting that anyone was saying that video games had that particular value. No one except me earlier today, that is. ;)
I think this definitely relates. The truth is, everyone who plays these role-playing games are witnesses, much like the real people in What Would You Do?
I play role-playing games a lot. I am the uncomfortable real person sitting in the restaurant watching the manager harass the waitress in this analogy.
You bring up a whole new dynamic with this, actually, and that’s the fact that these are massive worlds of social interaction. You aren’t playing Laura Croft and ogling her polygons in the privacy of your basement. You are pole dancing in the middle of a public area.
This begs the question–is publicly controlling women part of the appeal? And does that play into how addicting some of these online role-playing games can be?
The first time I played as a female character in any video game was Goldeneye on the 64. Whenever I played against my brothers, my older brother would always be Xenia, my younger brother would usually be Mishkin and I would float from character to character not ever being really happy with the choices left. I don’t know why my older brother was so adamant about playing as Xenia. It wasn’t long before I was racing him to choose Xenia as my character solely because I knew it bothered him and I wanted to be a jerk. Its part of being brothers.
What sealed the deal for me was when I played my friends. I quickly learned that they hated being killed by a female character. It drove them crazy. So I adopted Xenia as my permanent avatar as a terrorist tactic to demoralize my opponents.
That’s how I got started playing female characters anyway. I didn’t put a lot of meaning on it at the time. I did it because it was a helpful tool to unbalance my opponents just like killing them and then unloading a full clip unnecessarily on their body as it dropped to the floor. It didn’t matter the avatar’s gender, I would have used anything that had that effect.
Obviously my choices have evolved dramatically over the years. I’m unable to keep from investing my various characters in any game with personality; I’m less able to keep from identifying as my characters as well, whether that be a morally ambiguous male priest or a young female mage or whatever.
The issue of control hasn’t been an issue for me. I don’t see my characters as separate entities from myself that I manipulate with an interface. If I’m telling a story about something that happened in WoW for instance I’ll say “And then I was just walking through the Bazaar in Silvermoon and some guy made a creepy comment about my dress and it really bothered me.” I would experience that situation directly as if it had happened to me.
Controlling a female avatar or a male avatar just isn’t very different from controlling the movements of your own hands to me.
However you’re right in that this is a motivating factor for some people, women included actually. From anecdotal experience women don’t do this as often but I’ve seen a few cases where the women playing their male characters liked doing so because they could objectify their avatar. It makes sense to me both ways to some degree, its just not my personal experience at all.
I’ve mostly given up being overly concerned about how I express masculinity or femininity personally. I do masculine things and I do feminine things and I typically tend to identify with females far more than males. When playing games online, people often want to play as an idealized version of themselves or a version of themselves that idealizes parts of themselves anyway. A lot of the time for me, that ideal self is female.
One last semi-connected thing to mention. In another MMO I’ve been playing recently called Aion, you have a lot of freedom to customize your characters. I mean a -lot- of freedom. There are slider bars for the width and curve of your character’s lips, foot size, exact shade of hair color and yes, a slider bar to control breast size on female characters. I have two characters in Aion, both female and both have the breast size slider bar all the way to the small side. When given the ability to customize to that degree, I’m not going to choose to make a Barbie character and (again, anecdotal evidence) from what I’ve seen on the server, that seems to be the choice a lot of people have made too. I don’t see characters with ginormous breasts, super narrow waists, long legs and blonde hair blue eyes or whatever. The representations are much more in line with reality. Obviously that should be taken with a grain of salt, my “research” is far from thorough and extensive.
The point I’m circuitously attempting to make is that there are a lot of reasons males may play as females and vice versa. No one reason covers everyone; In fact not even handfuls of reasons would cover everyone.
Yes, I do believe there are many reasons. But I also believe lots of those reasons have this at their core. Whether they are trying to control the feminine side of themselves or women in general, it’s still an exercise of control. Like Ted said, all role-playing games have that aspect. Just the image of controlling a woman’s breast size with a sliding bar is potent enough to make my point. Though on a broader scale, not so much men controlling women specifically.
And I find it interesting that your very first experience playing a woman avatar wasn’t necessarily you controlling a woman, but it was the fact that a woman was in control that bothered your friends so much.
I don’t believe that this issue of controlling females is at the core of many of these different reasons. If said control were unique to just female characters then I could agree but you’re only looking at one half of this issue.
The slider bars in the character creation process apply to both female and male characters. Females can and do make male characters and adjust their own slider bars to custom design their characters just the same as males who play female characters which undermines your point. At that stage, thousands of varieties of form are available to choose from for characters of both gender.
I’m not trying to control my feminine side by playing female characters nor am I trying to exert control over women generally. Females playing males aren’t trying to control their masculinity or their men either for the most part.
Yes, this is a motivating factor for some but it is far far from being the core or central reasoning for most people. To see it only as an issue of males playing females only dims an understanding of the issue as well.
You know, of all the people I know, you would actually be someone I would consider an exception. I knew that when i was writing the post.
I think the slider bars really show more how role-playing games are all about control. Not men controlling women, but control in general. It’s why I like text-based games so much more than games like WoW. I have complete control over what I look like. It’s empowering. Like Ted mentions in the comment below, it’s not always unhealthy (because of course playing Achaea isn’t unhealthy *eyes everyone*)
I have been reading the book He again (I never finished it the first time). You and I should read He and She and discuss. I think it’d be an interesting evening.
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GIVE ME YOUR PHONE NUMBER. ;)
I sympathize with Shayzani. People HATE it when you beat them in Smash Bros with Peach. I dunno why. It drives them absolutely nuts if they’re a guy. So I would always play Peach. I was never good but when I got that lucky kill it was enough to totally throw the whole groove of their game playing.
I would be reluctant to take control out of the entire aspect of role play (because any time of role play, if anything, is the ability to take control of a role that you otherwise cannot play). However, I’ve been thinking, for the sake of argument let us suppose that all males choose to play female characters because they want to exert control (a broad, sweeping over generalization but work with me here).
Could unconscious thoughts or desires be tempered by conscious controls?
Suppose I did decide to play a female gnome or feel “most comfortable” with playing a female gnome in WoW completely based on control issues. However, obviously, all of my actions don’t point to any type of overt control. In my mind, I’ve constructed a narrative of how she is searching for her long lost sister who is rumored to have become a warlock despite the fact that their family was killed by demons in the Third War. Her drive in exploring and wandering around the zones is a desire to discover if this rumor is true, and to confront her sister if it is. I’ve been focusing more on achievements for exploring zones or unlocking lore.
In other words, perhaps my consciousness, trained and tempered by social constraints, turned this impulse into a healthy experience. I believe all role playing opportunities can become healthy, self-discovery experiences (which is why I’m such a huge promoter of them).
As always, aspects of control and other darker forms of human behavior will always exist, I think, and when we use what Jamie calls “outlets” to express them, it will always be disturbing. I have several friends who, when incredibly stressed, will play violent first person shooter games to channel all of that pent up frustration and anger somewhere. They redirect it into a safe mode of expression. In other words, our consciousness tempers and transforms a base desire (to inflict pain on others as a way to relieve your own) into something more benign or even healthy.
I am not sure how I feel about people using MMOs purely for controlling women, however. I think it’s much more complicated than that. Aside from pole dancing and shouting lewd comments in trade chat (or cybering in the Tram), there isn’t a whole lot you can do that is overtly sexual in nature. Even then, there are considerable social controls (such as ignoring people or leaving entire chat channels) to avoid such behavior. It’s annoying when it pops up from time to time but no different than running into a crazy ranting guy on the street. It’s uncomfortable, but we’re thick-skinned humans. The hardest part about living in a liberal, relatively free society is dealing with people who have very differing and what we may even consider harmful opinions. Yet we must find creative ways to shut them down or ignore them. It’s the price we pay.
I may try to interview a whole bunch of girls who play games to try and compile some kind of story. This is too fascinating of a subject to just discuss for a couple of days and then let go.
I do think controlling women is just a part of the entire psyche associated with role playing. I chose to focus on that specifically for dramatic effect and to initiate response and discussion (which it surely has).
I would suggest interviewing girls that play girls, girls that play guys, guys that play girls, guys that play guys, girls that play both, and guys that play both. Lots of interviewing, but based on Shayzani’s comments above (that’s a girl avatar’s name for my guy friend Chad btw…how appropriate! :D), it will be different for every situation.
I’d love to see your questions (you should get them reviewed before giving out the survey to make sure they maintain academic objectivity) and the results.
Are we Anthropology nerds or what? :P
And sorry about the late reply. Busy day.
How dare you not put my blog first.
As far as the addictive quality of MMOs, I have a much more Marxist view on it.
MMOs often give people a real chance to see direct results to the work they put into the game. Let’s be honest; anyone who says MMOs are all about instant gratification have never grinded Timbermaw rep for an achievement. It’s horrible, soul crushing, repetitive work – like real corporate work in America. The only difference is that there is a direct correlation to how much work you put in and what you get out of it – you can watch your little green reputation bar increase the more time you spend on it.
MMOs offer people the opportunity to actually realize results from hard work, something that doesn’t really happen elsewhere in our society. We work hard in the rat race, but compensation is less based on how much work you do and more on how lucky you are and what connections you have. Marx described this as a disconnect from our work. MMOs offer a unique experience of being able to “work” in the game and receive benefit for it. It’s easy to raise funds in WoW – just go out, kill monsters for ever, then take what you have and sell the vendor trash to vendors and put everything else on the Auction House. With some savvy know-how and some skill, you can make a lot of gold. If you want to get an achievement, work at it and you can get it (with easily measured, visible progress). Real life and our modern-day society unfortunately offers very little of this type of gratification, despite what platitudes people like to spout about American idealism and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or whatever.
My two (communist) cents. Or rubbles. Or whatever.
This reminds me of a story Tom told about Sims. He said he remembers potently one time where he just jumped up from the couch all excited that his Sim had received a promotion…only to realize it was 4 in the afternoon and he was still in his pajamas.
I definitely see what you are saying. I spend hours in Achaea because getting House Rank 5 is really rewarding.
I just really wish I could feel the same way about reality. Because my job is killing me.
And I don’t know if it’s because it’s 3 AM, but your rubbles comment made me giggle.
Geez, my thoughts are all over the place. Last comment for the night, I promise.
I would also argue that exploring control in play is not harmful and can even be beneficial. While we may say that control is the reason for playing role playing games, this is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, finding a non-aggressive way to explore insecurities about gender in an MMO is much worse than, say, becoming a horribly abusive misogynist.
Of course, some people will argue that playing out those “fantasies” about control in games will encourage people to exhibit such behavior in real life. But I think this point is pretty moot since a lot of people play really violent video games and thus far, I am not aware of mobs of hypnotized geeks washing the world in blood. Can they make you more violent? Yes, but probably no more ratcheted up than, say, watching your favorite sportsball team make all/not enough goal points.
UGH. It should read “finding a non-aggressive way to explore insecurities about gender in an MMO is LESS worse than, say, becoming a horribly abusive misogynist.” I’m going to bed before I commit anymore serious writing errors.
Don’t you hate that you can’t edit these comments? I think you should be able to edit for the first little while.
Bleh, I hate it when people say violence comes from video games. I think the violent tendencies were already there, to be honest, if they enjoy the game so much. Again, there are always exceptions, but blaming video games for violent behavior feels like a major cop-out to me.
And you’re right, it is healthy to experience a level of control in a safe (ish) environment. Like I said to Chad above, it’s why I like text-based games so much. Sooo much of the control is in my hands. It’s empowering.
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Thanks for the link. :)
Oh dear… It’s so much more complicated than all that.
I’m not a writer of any great skill, but I think it should be said: the assumption of subconscious ill-intent on the part of men is maybe a little too narrow a view.
I won’t bore you with recollections of my past, suffice to say: I have four older sisters and my mother was my best friend; she was strong, and kind, and flawed, and wonderful for all of those reasons. My sisters have shown many of those same qualities. Control was never a factor when it came to my relationships with the women in my family. For that reason, I believe that some men may be thinking more about their mothers, or their sisters, than their girlfriends or wives when they play female characters. Men’s relationships with women go beyond sex and reproduction, just as it does with women.
I think by boiling it all down to dominance, sex, or control you’re vastly over-simplifying who men are and the range of relationships they can have with women. I don’t think there’s one good answer for why men like to play female characters, but I’m certain that control is only one piece of a larger puzzle.
I don’t think of it as a piece of a puzzle, however…more like one influence that permeates the rest. Instead of your thoughts on women being broken up into separate pieces uninfluenced by each other, I think what I’ve written on is a vein that exists in all men. It may be larger in some than in others, but I still feel like it’s there.
But you are certainly right–there is much more to it. I agree that is it complex and different for each person out there. The point of my post was to point out this one vein, I suppose. One that I felt my fellow writer had left out. And because he left it out, it seemed all the more important that I point it out.
I really appreciate your thoughtful response. :)
Your argument seems well thought out and intelligent, but not based in reality. Like trying to describe a potato chip’s personality to someone. I don’t play MMOs, but in most other games there are valid reasons to play as a female character.
Take Tomb Raider for as example. While I realize you have no choice in character selection, moving around and performing difficult jumps, a large male character would certainly be more difficult, than a slender woman. Even if the actual clipping box of two characters is the same, choosing a female almost always enables you to see around a character better, especially when the camera is behind the character.
Some games, Fallout 3 for example, female characters get perks male characters do not. I don’t recall the name, but it’s some assassin perk.
Also in many games, stats all not equal in all characters. In most of these games, female character are often faster and more stealthy. Desirable attributes too many gamers, male and female. Females sometimes have alternate FMVs.
And lastly, in online deathmatch style games like Quake, male is the first option to choose and also most of these games are dominated by male gamers (I’m just guessing on that one). This results in a male dominated battle field. I will often choose a female character just to display a little individuality.
So there are real reasons to choose a female character, that do not require a deep psychological examination.
In the examples you cite, you would be correct. I am talking mainly about choosing to role-play female characters, not selecting a female avatar in a combat-only type of video game. In the games I am referring to, the differences in stats tend to lie in races, not in genders, making the choice to play a female over a male much more psychological than practical.
well im 17 and never thought of controlling women ever the only reasons y i play as female cheacter inline is to c wat happens to the ppl who thinks im a chick and i tell them im a dude and its funny as hell.
i get bored very easily so i have to do some thing that is funny as hell to be entertain 4 a while event then that doesnt work 4 me so i get bore very easily
I can’t speak for the other guys, but I don’t think this covers it for me. (Maybe for the majority of men that do, sure.)
I play as women because I hate men… I can’t stand to look at them, I can’t stand hearing them, I’m really sexist against my own sex. This has more to do with personal issues than anything else…
I will admit, I find myself staring at the avatar from time to time. (As you mentioned, it’s only natural.) But I realize that most of my true to self sessions of games tend to be as women. (Examples: KotoR, Fallout 3/NV)
I’ve always been more comfortable around women.
While you say it’s about controlling women, I don’t think it is so for me. Because, well, I’m usually flying blind. I don’t think “Well, how am I going to play this character” (Unless I decided I was going to do a Good/Evil run from the start)
I simply find myself reacting. Do I chose what my avatar wears? Sure, hell I do that when I play as a dude too.
Then again, maybe it’s just me. As I said, I’m not coming at this from a normal standpoint.
BTW, if your curious… Most of my Evil or Good sessions on games, the times I RP, tend to be as men. Either totally good or totally evil.
It’s as a woman that I tend to shift between the two.
(Which is how I view myself IRL. Neither good nor evil, but something in between.)
I’ve always played female characters because I’m transgendered and it gave me an outlet to play the role in a fantasy world that I desperately wanted to play in the real world. Second Life was my favorite: no plot, no tasks, just lots of room to build. And my female Orc Hunter in WoW was kick-ass.
I often wonder if more men out there aren’t role playing their gender spectrum in this way. In my case, I thought it was painfully obvious.
That’s a very interesting point, jessebeach. I suppose role playing games like these would really help with that. I just recently made my first male character in the RPG I play. It’s definitely interesting to see how differently people treat you simply based on gender. And my game doesn’t even have graphics. It’s text-based.
Thanks for you comment!
[…] will quote Lee’s friend and fellow blogger Jilly Bean on this point, because she replies to this passage with aplomb: “This is a notion that exists at […]
[…] and needs that are to dad unthinkable and must be quashed. This does not seem like evidence of Jilly Bean’s thesis, this particular boy’s unvoiced/unknown desires do not appear to be an attempt “to control […]
Hello! I wrote a piece for Girls Like Giants partially inspired by yours, you can follow the crosslink above if you want to read it. Or right here: http://girlslikegiants.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/genderplay-the-problems-promise-and-pleasures-of-video-game-crossplaying-part-1/
Keep up the good work!
-brian psi
I noticed all the ping backs. Thanks for giving me so much credit! :)
Definitely!
I am taking an upper level Sociology course on Diversity and have read so many essays on minorities, including women. I have always wondered by some guys like to play as girls. This is a social norm in my view, it irks me. If you were teaching a young boy how to play a board game and they chose an overtly feminine pink game piece to represent them, you would probably ask question(or at least I would). Why are computer games so different. It is “okay” for guys to play as girls online. When I’m playing WoW and I see a female avatar I automatically picture a real life girl behind the desk. I should know better, and I should also know to avoid any subconscious flirting because it’s probably a guy. My initial response of “oh its a girl” and the actuality of it being a “guy” really mess with my head. They mess with my head in the same sense of lets say Kayo Police(the transgender gamer/model who was thought to be girl because of her looks, but she surprised many people by coming out as a guy). It just feels wrong once you find out the truth. There is a feeling and sense of betrayal, Betrayal in the sense of “WOW They tricked me” and in the sense of “Why did I like what i saw” . So basically some of my assumptions in regard to reasons for playing as a girl are “they have some sort of gender disorder” “they secretly like guys” “they are out for a laugh at others dispense”. They may sound a little extreme but from a social constructionist perspective, are they really that malevolent? I was raised in a world where gender is concrete. Girls probably get less flack for choosing to play as a guy(even less so when its something “cute” like a Tauren male), Am I and others like me, preoccupied with upholding the reality of, customs and norms of gender.Has society changed so much that gender has no meaning in the cyber world. Has our society feminized, is it okay to be like a female if you are born a guy? Or is sex and our environment really at the core.. Do these “nerds” and other guys with issues really want to have overt control over women. Is this all about the “power” of men?
Hello hello, this is a very late comment (pardon!), but this is an issue that’s of interest to me.
I like Shayzani’s comments quite a bit, and I’d like to add something to that—
The thing about video games as a medium is that you are always controlling something, whether that be a human or the wind (Flower, yay!) or whatever else…
…and, when you have a gender choice in an RPG, you kinda have to choose to control one or the other (or the other or the other if there’s a non-binary option), so, yes. People who choose to play a female character want to “control a woman.” And people who choose to play a male character want to “control a man.”
Phrasing it in that manner seems a bit off, though, or at least a bit unsettling—and that may well be because I recognize something in myself (I don’t have a full handle on my thought processes, naturally) and want to challenge the notion.
My first, and highest-level, Skyrim character is a female wood elf. My dad is rather more conservative when it comes to gender roles/identity, so he was rather unsettled when I clicked out to third-person view to show off some armor I had made (glass!) (also a note: i play in first person 97% of the time).
“Why are you playing a woman? You’re not a woman.”
My response was something along the lines of “I’m also not an elf.”
…which is the thing, y’see..? Obviously, the real-world existence of gender is more of a thing than the real-world existence of wood elves (are you out there? write to me!)
…but it’s a fantasy of control no matter what. If I played a male avatar, I’d have a substantially similar play through, and it would be because I chose to “control a male (race)”.
Yeah, there are undercurrents of gendered thought in everything around, but your phrasing puts in a more sinister light than I think is needed.
(then again, maybe that’s OK. I’m not sure. I’m just reacting and giving a little angle thingy on it)
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One last thing: my personality is really very submissive, and things go along from there.
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Thank you for writing this, though! And for engaging commenters and all that. Your blog is splendid.
Hi Jyames! Thank you for taking the time to make such a well-written response. I’m surprised people still find this post, to be honest. I expressed my opinion in such a way as to elicit response, actually. My first draft was a lot more wishy-washy, making allowances here and there, to the point that I felt like my initial, base response to the question at hand was lost in all the “yeah but in this situation, it’s different” possibilities. I much preferred to leave that open for discussion, which clearly, has happened. I find the difference between your dad’s response and your personal take on the matter interesting. Thanks for sharing that! I’m glad the post made you think and then discuss. That was the point. :)
Continuing the trend of late replies:
This is… tricky, because I think the language plays into the hands of your original argument. The language of role-playing characters is intrinsically possessive; every time I tried to think of a strong counter-argument, I always wound up catching myself phrasing it as “MY Shepard” or “MY wild-elf rogue”, and started to grown increasingly terrified at the prospect that you might be right, and this really is all a matter of control and I never really considered what I was doing.
I’m not sure that’s true, though. I don’t think the language is possessive in the sense of “this woman is an external object under my control”; rather, I think it’s possessive in the same sense that you might say “my thoughts”, or “my personality”, or “my hand”. They are mine, not in the sense that property is mine, but in the sense that they are extensions of my identity. Granted, the distinction is probably more of a spectrum than a binary choice, but I think a character is much closer to the side of “my self” than “my stuff”.
I’m not going to outright deny the idea that playing as a girl is a matter of control. I’ve been struggling with the issue of why I like to play female characters for years now and I still don’t feel like I have a solid answer, so I’m not going to claim some contrary insight. I can at least say that I don’t make that decision consciously, and the notion of it disgusts me. Who knows what’s going on underneath.
With the caveat that I can’t tell you whether they’re reasons or rationalizations, I can throw out some hypotheses:
1) The cultural notions of masculine and feminine HAVE to have some kind of effect on the choice of character gender. Regardless of whether or not it’s true or useful, traits always seem to get paired off by gender. To be strong is masculine, to be graceful is feminine; to be boisterous, masculine, to be sly, feminine; to be reckless, masculine, to be clever, feminine. I like my characters to be graceful, sly, and clever, so… I like my characters to be girls? Maybe.
2) Maybe it’s a matter of self-negation. I’m smart and clever (or at least I like to think so, and I make my living off of those traits so I hope there’s some truth to it), and I like my characters to be smart and clever, but beyond that my character is frequently that which I’m not. I’m a klutz, so my character is nimble and sure-footed; I’m passive-aggressive and adverse to confrontation, so my character is assertive and willful; I’m out of shape, so my character is athletic and physically idealized. I’m a man, so… my character is a woman? Maybe.
3) I don’t think it extends quite as far as being “gender-curious” (for as frequently as I play a girl, I’ve never questioned my own gender identity, which is why I’ve spent so much time think about why I play girls in the first place), but maybe it’s just the freedom to pretend to be a woman *in a space that doesn’t punish you for being a woman*. Nobody ever gives Shepard flak for “doing a man’s work”, and if they did you’re in a space where you can shoot their face off for being a sexist jerk. Maybe it’s just more natural to leave your gender behind when there’s no social stigma attached to it? I don’t know.
4) I don’t want to claim that I don’t sexualize my characters after you say that’s it’s perfectly natural to sexualize my characters, but… I don’t sexualize my characters. I physically idealize my characters, but in the Faith Connors sense (http://i.imgur.com/vFgeNbK.jpg), not in the Starfire sense (http://i.imgur.com/PqVSJYo.jpg). My sneaky female assassins have A cups. I like my characters to be realistically idealized. This is the only thing on this list I can say with surety.
So there you go. I have some notions, but no real answers. I imagine the reasons vary from person to person, but those are the ones I can think of that might apply to me. On a conscious level, it’s not about sexualization, beacuse I don’t play sexualized characters, and I don’t THINK it’s about control. I honestly think it’s about being able to slip into the identity of a better, cooler person, and I think smart, strong women are super cool.
The main reason for my post originally was to force people to think of why they might do things, which you have clearly done. :) I think the points you make are great (though an A cup can be just as sexualized as a D cup, it all depends on preferences). It’s been a while since I wrote this and as I read your comment, I started to think that the problem lies more with video game creators. Why should you have to pick a woman if you want to be lithe and nimble? Anyway, very good points and thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on all of this. :)
Yea A cups are really cute as to D cups are really fun
Fun for you maybe. They look like a bitch to deal with for the woman. But I wouldn’t know. ;)
Ok I’m gonna get this out of the way now “, cat girls are cute as hell and we’ll I’m not going to argue with your point they are all quite valid an interesting I myself though tend to play female characters in games because well, I’m a male, I appreciate the female body… That and the whole reason people become gamers is to escape reality. I’m don’t have a life because I’m a gamer I have MANY lives because I’m a gamer and well playing a female character just adds variety to those many lives I choose I live
You know, even as a heterosexual woman, I have to admit cat girls ARE cute as hell. :D I really like what you said about having many lives because you are a gamer. That’s what using the imagination is all about. Some people do it through reading (which is more socially acceptable than gaming, even though both are time-sucking escapes from reality), some do it through TV or movies, and some do it through gaming. I think we all crave experiences we can’t have in our own reality. Thanks for the comment. :)
These may be your thoughts but they are just arguments, there can be countless other arguments as to why there are men who like to play as a woman. I for one reason like to play as a woman because I do not have to bother about my character being relatable to me. As a person with certain outlook, thoughts, philosophies and principles, I always tend to look some of these in my fictional characters be it writing, gaming of cinema and thereby becoming judgmental. With females I do not have to bother about with all these things and whatever her personality, character trait is I’m fine with it as long as she is likable and kick-butt character.
That’s pretty interesting actually–that simply changing the gender of your character makes her so unrelatable to you that you don’t think about what her philosophies and principles might be. Even if I chose a male character to play, I would still want that male character to be someone I could relate to. But if you aren’t really into the role playing aspect and just want to kill all the things in awesome ways, it doesn’t matter either way. :)