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[–]Purpledrank 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (39子コメント)

Was just in a thread in /r/DebateaCommunist about how circle-jerky and shitty overall this subreddit is.

link for anyone interested: http://www.reddit.com/r/DebateaCommunist/comments/2ohnl8/comminist_what_do_you_think_of_the_socalism/

[–]bluegreensamurai -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (38子コメント)

I have almost left r/socialism several times due to the ignorance and hatred expressed.

I argue that if we stuck to the topic, socialism as an economic system, and left out some of the more controversial social aspects of our movement, then we would be far better off.

[–]deleventyReally Really Far Left 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

the more controversial social aspects of our movement

I'm sorry? Socialism is controversial within the confines of bourgeois thought!

"Controversial" is completely contextual. Are you saying that because abolition was controversial in the nineteenth century, they should not have had those discussions?

Who are you to dictate what should be considered controversial for a socialist?

[–]bluegreensamurai -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Dictate? No, just a comment. I have as much right as anyone here to speak, why do you want to silence me?

And yes, controversial is relative. I am obviously referring here to social structures that are incendiary in this subreddit. They are distracting, note these posts here! We could be discussing economics or class......

And I am not alone in being annoyed by the tangents here, nor making this up - read the damn sidebar! It specifically mentions no inclusion of the very topics I am discussing. Read it.

[–]deleventyReally Really Far Left 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have as much right as anyone here to speak, why do you want to silence me?

I'm not trying to silence you. I asked questions. I was under the impression you were trying to silence others.

And I am not alone in being annoyed by the tangents here, nor making this up - read the damn sidebar! It specifically mentions no inclusion of the very topics I am discussing. Read it.

Please point out the passage you are referring to. My reading comprehension is negatively correlated to the amount of time I have been awake.

[–]bluegreensamurai -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

From the sidear..... (bold is mine)

Welcome to /r/socialism, a subreddit for those who consider themselves socialists and/or wish to engage in constructive, civil discussion about world events and socialist ideas. People from all socialist organizations, groups, and tendencies are welcome, along with those who are just curious about socialism, given they're respectful.

Socialism: democratic control of the means of production by the working class for the good of the community rather than capitalist profit.

Rules

Do Not: Make abusive posts/comments Post meta content Engage in personal attacks Harass or troll other users

[Do not] Post comments which include, promote, or apologize for: Racism Sexism Transphobia Rape or Sexual Assault Genocide/Ethnic Cleansing Fascism/Nazism Homophobia or Queer Bashing Orientalism Slavery Imperalism, Colonialism or Neo-Colonialism Classism


The thing is, peer-reviewed science has shown that females in developed countries are privileged in many ways (so are males, of course, genders are not equally represented nor have equality of opportunity in very many fields.) So presenting this validated research cannot be construed as sexism, rather, denying this research is sexism. But I am not trying to squelch those who are not familiar with the latest findings, I am simply fighting back against those who are trying to silence my presentation.

I am all for equality of opportunity for all people, just don't find that equality essential for Socialism. It is not. Can you not imagine a capitalist society that accepts transgender people? Can you not imagine a Socialist society that discriminates? These ideas of equality, while both important to me, are not obligated to be intertwined.

[–]shroom_throwaway9722☭ Marxism-Leninism-Maoism ☭ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

OK, it's clear now that you are an MRA. Please leave.

[–]bluegreensamurai -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am all for equality of opportunity for all people

You nailed me there.

[–]shroom_throwaway9722☭ Marxism-Leninism-Maoism ☭ 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (24子コメント)

I argue that if we stuck to the topic, socialism as an economic system, and left out some of the more controversial social aspects of our movement, then we would be far better off.

How is collective ownership of the means of production not a social aspect of the movement?

Socialism would bring about huge changes in how we live day-to-day, interact, and organize society as a whole.

[–]bluegreensamurai -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (23子コメント)

What are you talking about? You are conflating economics with other aspects of social structures.

I am content to discuss collective ownership of the means of production, what I do not want is to include in this sub are rants about how acceptance of transgenders or whomever is paramount to our cause (it might be, but this is not the place for that discussion). In general, whenever I mention this small but important strategy of our movement in this sub I am harassed and downvoted.

Like I said, I am just a few downvotes away from leaving this subreddit and telling people how insane many socialists are....... We really need to work on our messaging if even I, an avid Socialist, is regularly turned off in this sub.

/me waits for the Social Justice Warriors to downvote and tell us why I am wrong

[–]shroom_throwaway9722☭ Marxism-Leninism-Maoism ☭ 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (20子コメント)

What are you talking about? You are conflating economics with other aspects of social structures.

There is no separation of the two. Capitalism breeds other forms of oppression besides the purely economic.

Marx and Engels wrote about the connection between capitalism, social hierarchy, and the oppression of women over 150 years ago. So we can already see that the goals of feminism and socialism are interconnected.

There are many other works written that analyze the connections between capitalism and racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.

acceptance of transgenders

The term you're looking for is transgender people. And what's wrong with acceptance?

Also, are you not aware of queer communism/socialism?

[–]redryanMarxist-Leninist-Star Trek 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Like I said, I am just a few downvotes away from leaving this subreddit and telling people how insane many socialists are

We'll have to try just a bit harder in that case. Leave, you aren't welcome. You would probably fit in better with the rest of the reactionary trash in the red pill sub.

[–]bluegreensamurai -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice! However my brand of socialism is very inclusionary, everyone is welcome!

You are a serious problem here, redryan, no help to our movement. Not only can you not debate worth shit, but you resort to name-calling and attempts to ban me when your position is lost.

I believe that if you are not so afraid, that if you embrace facts and stick to the topic at hand, that you will grow and help the cause of Socialism. I understand that it is difficult to be shown wrong, but not all that hard really if you let down your pride.

Let's just back-up a few, back before you started insulting my person, and just progress with the facts in evidence.

[–]itstimeforcake 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

What are the specific social aspects you find controversial?

[–]bluegreensamurai -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Mentioning any particular aspect would rain down hell-fire on me from those who have taken that as their cause, as I have seen here in this subreddit on a few occasions.

I contend that any discussion here about anything other than economics or class structure is distracting and unhelpful. The sidebar pretty much says the same, but the mods allow a lot of leeway or don't pay attention.

[–]Ragark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

How can we talk about class(and the oppressions that come with it) if we are unwilling to talk about large segments of the working class and the oppressions they face?

[–]bluegreensamurai -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Huh? We can totally discuss anything relevant to Socialism and class structure, even feminism or racism when it applies. But not every feminist and racist concept has to do with Socialism - they certainly do not discuss Socialism in r/feminism as much as the reverse!

Wouldn't you think that if feminists thought their cause was dependent on Socialism then they would be here en masse, that Socialism would be a popular topic there?

By your reasoning, protecting the environment should be vastly more important to Socialists as we all face that everyday. So why do I see tons of feminist posts and not at least twice as many about the environment? Because yours is not the reason that feminists post here - they have their own agenda, often distinct from Socialist ones, and they are harsh in their criticisms.

That last is the point of this thread, that many of us feel unwelcome in this subreddit. You can ignore our concerns but we will push back a little - Socialism is our passion, too.

[–]Ragark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can you give some examples of non-socialist posting about feminism here that is not relevant? I mean, the vast majority of things on the 1st page of this sub have nothing to do with feminism. Only a few have to do with racism, and that's in the context of what's going on with the police right now and is massively relevant. And there is absolutely nothing stopping you from posting your own threads about what you wish to discuss.

[–]shroom_throwaway9722☭ Marxism-Leninism-Maoism ☭ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That last is the point of this thread, that many of us feel unwelcome in this subreddit.

Good, because MRAs are indeed unwelcome.

Get out.

[–]bluegreensamurai -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How many times do I have to say that I support equal rights for all people before redditors here stop mentioning MRA? I have no idea what those people do.

Why the hatred and false accusations? You really need to stop drinking so much before you get on reddit, shroom-lady. I have voted your posts down 20 times now but the unwarranted insults continue.

You are so making the redditor's point above: r/socialism can be a very unwelcome place, full of personal attacks and trying to get those of us out who do not follow some narratives.