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It happened.. (self.Bitcoin)

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[–]Seepy_ 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (70子コメント)

This happened to me too. For the first half of the year I talked about bitcoin a lot. Now I rarely bring it up but I have been generally asked by my family many a time.

I'd hate to seem like that annoying dick that always bangs on about bitcoin and so far this is working for me. No issues.

[–]DrFatHomo 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (69子コメント)

If you think the technology is so good, why is your enthusiasm tied to the price? Or is Bitcoin just a get rich quick vehicle for you?

[–]5817707 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (68子コメント)

mine is not tied. I'm living homeless because of it but having it is the only thing worth living for. I felt so trapped in this prison people can't even see for so long and now see this movement as a revolution the same as when we wanted to issue honest money to combat the rule of king George and his cartels having to be in-between all of our trades.

I see 2-5% of each of my transactions NOT going to the wealthiest people on the planet and instead staying in the pocket of the person I"m trading with. THAT is the value. Keeping the king out of local trade is worth more. Liberty is worth more. Than how much fiat I can trade my bitcoin for.

The only reason the price dropped a full year is because INVESTORS not revolutionaries got scared and pulled out. They miss the whole point! They are looking at "how an I gain the most fiat by trading for bitcoin" and true forward thinking smart innovators see it as "how can I begin building an economy that functions so much better than fiat".

Think of your grandchildren NOT your pocketbook.

[–]yLSxTKOYYm 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I really hope you're trolling, because dude, that ain't economically rational.

[–]Based_gandhi 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

that ain't economically rational

That should be the slogan of the next bitcoin campaign!

[–]vegeenjon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shit ain't ER yo...

[–]I_want_hard_work -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That should be the slogan of the next bitcoin campaign economics!

[–]DrFatHomo 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (18子コメント)

That price drop? That was your money going into the pockets of Chinese ASIC farmers. Transaction networks cost money to run, you're going to pay for it one way or another.

And don't spend the money you need to live on Bitcoin. That's awful. :(

[–]i3nikolai 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The price drop isn't because investors pulled out, the price drop is because there aren't enough investors buying in to counter the more than $1m/day sold by miners

[–]snowbird122 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This makes a lot of sense to me.

[–]liquidify 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Mining is going to get more efficient too very very soon.

[–]i3nikolai 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It doesn't matter how efficient it is, the reward schedule is fixed. If efficiency goes up that just means more miners will participate until the electricity cost is roughly the block reward again.

[–]liquidify 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Miners will participate, but mining won't expand opperations if they are just going to pay electricity costs. So either the price needs to go up or the efficiency needs to go up. Looks like the efficiency will go up before cost.

[–]i3nikolai 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, efficiency always goes up before cost, that's why the "real difficulty" is always below the "adjusted difficulty" except for the very recent first-even diff drop. But the point is that miners ALWAYS catch up.

mining won't expand opperations if they are just going to pay electricity costs

If they made a 1% profit margin before, and now they make 5%, that's an opportunity for more people to mine profitably. Knowing this you jump on the opportunity to expand back to make your 1% margin and stay in business for the next adjustment.

And even if you don't, the difficulty will drop and other miners who couldn't mine profitably will start.

The expenditures will always tend towards the costs (expenditures include the employee salaries who might keep some in BTC), meaning no matter what the vast majority of mined BTC must be sold.

[–]TronicTonic -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch what happens at the next halving.

All time high!

[–]5817707 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

sorry you are right nobody pulled out... everyone is trying to get ME to pull out but you are convinced that nobody else got scared and pulled out even though most of the large drops come on the heels of govt and bank rumors.

[–]JeanneDOrc 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm living homeless because of it but having it is the only thing worth living for

I see 2-5% of each of my transactions NOT going to the wealthiest people on the planet and instead staying in the pocket of the person I"m trading with.

You're literally destroying yourself to "put out" people who will not be affected by your choices :(

[–]5817707 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (9子コメント)

as this builds you will see an affect. not destroying anything either, living humbly and believing that the only meaningful change that can occur in our lifetime is freedom of exchange and its worth living humbly to support a future where my grandchildren are free

[–]JeanneDOrc 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

As far as tangible effects on the world, self-imposed homelessness to promote your ideology ranks up there with internet petitions.

All respect for consistency, but there are probably better ways to promote Bitcoin sustainably.

[–]5817707 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

There are a lot more things to worry about than the amount of possessions I can afford.

[–]JeanneDOrc 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you're looking to "fight", dropping off the grid and the rest of the material world probably isn't going to be the most effective vector by which to make your beliefs known.

People living partially off the grid, partially off social services aren't new to society and while they can be a force for the rights of the homeless, they lack the power/speech($) to change very much from without.

[–]5817707 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you say $ is speech but only because we give fiat so much power by accepting it, we stop accepting it and governments cant print any more (or they can print but will be worthless) for their armies murderers special interests which just goes back into the polititians pockets. We stop valueing it and their speech is dead.

[–]forking_lemma 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Like freezing temperatures.

[–]5817707 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

there is no way it gets too cold for my sleeping bag. I burn up on below 0 nights.

[–]ShameInTheSaddle 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, the government will pay to treat your fever for free when the paramedics drag your unconcious body to the nearest hospital run by fat cats stealing from your grandchildren. Congratulations on your life choices!

[–]Sharlach 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is why people make fun of us. Get help.

[–]5817707 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

first the mock you

[–]Getdafuckoffreddit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then you get shanked in an alley by a schizophrenic.

[–]TronicTonic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dude - operate economically in your own best interest. That's the BEST way to help everyone else out.

Greed is just an engine. Just don't push it so far that your hurt others and it's all good.

[–]5817707 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

thanks ayan rand, but your philosophy is causing most mass social decline.

[–]TronicTonic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No - did you miss my last sentence?

Extremist capitalism is bad. But generally moderate capitalism is good.

Social decline happens when the ultra rich capture government and dismantle ANTI-CAPITALISTIC checks and build monopolies.

[–]satoshis_ghost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Please stop feeding the trolls. If you're really homeless because you lost so much money from BTC, that's just sad. Don't act like it's a good thing. That's insane.

[–]5817707 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

First of all I am homeless by choice because I'm not selling my BTC I have plenty worth in there. Not everyone who goes without work for a few months should sell everything they own and panic sell all their stocks to pay rent a few months... You are so fucking weak as a culture your whole culture cowers at the thought of living without your commercial goods for a few moths. Don't call me sad. Plus first of all I have not lost ANY money unless I sell and in 10 years none of it comes back up - its called investments they go up AND down I know your 5 yr old brain could never consider that. Also I HAVE A SHOT TON. I have a BTC value in my portfolio that i'm not going to share with you but it's PLENTY if I decided that I was too weak of a human to live life hard (like the rest of you pansies) then I could sell it.

For the last time it is not sad not want to sell everything you have just because you dont have work for a few months.

[–]Illesac 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The price is dropping and probably will continue to drop because there are 25 BTC being mined every 10 minutes. Those miners have electricity costs and the network must support those costs. We simply don't have enough money flowing into the system to support high costs and at the same time many people believe miners are being overpaid. In both scenarios the price drops.

[–]ptpatil 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Money is only worth as much value people put into it.

I advise you reconsider your financial allocations, but if you don't I and any other person will not feel guilty using you as a stepping stone to profit.

Fiat does not inherently mean worthless, so do not use it like a detracting term. In fact, BTC is entirely built around the fact that fiat money works.

[–]5817707 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree with you fiat works but by decree and through only authorized manipulators is it given value and BTC is by willing participation.

[–]ptpatil 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which makes it all the more volatile, the will of people is fickle, do not pick one cryptocurrency or even all cryptocurrency. And ALL currency can be manipulated if enough concentration of purchasing power exists.

[–]TronicTonic -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

There is intrinsic value in TCP/IP as it allows us to route packets on a global network with no central authority or trust requirement.

There is value in Bitcoin as it allows us to track balances on a global network with no central authority or trust requirement.

[–]ptpatil 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Right, and that's a value for you. The reason its at 300 dollars a BTC is not because of that value.

Similarly, the U.S dollar also has value as toilet paper, I imagine it to be quite pleasant to use since its made of cotton, but if I were to invest in it, would this value be paramount? No.

The fact that a group of 300 million people with vast amounts of wealth and enough power to destroy the world or at least fuck up my day is why their currency has power. Because people have faith in it to carry their value.

"But ptpatil, wouldn't it make more sense for people to trust their value to something that isn't centrally controlled?"

Sure, it would be even better of people didn't gamble at the casino, but here we are today with an entire city dedicated to it.

As an investor, you should always divorce yourself from any irrational value to the investments you make, ESPECIALLY moral ones. This poor homeless man might put his life savings of human effort behind BTC, which I consider a fiat currency, and tomorrow if or when people decide that they like dogecoin or even wampum better as a global reserve currency then I and every other investor shark will feel no remorse as we bleed him dry, along with the rest of the "religious" BTC holders.

[–]TronicTonic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is intrinsic value in a robust protocol that is widely adopted.

The actual bits have no value except that they are scarce and required to operate the network. The network operates on miners validating transactions and the bits they generate have value to them because of the dollar cost in hardware, electricity, rent, etc. The users of the network protocol need the bits the miners generate. So they give money in exchange for the protocol access.

As more people adopt the protocol the value will increase due to limited supply of bits. Currently the supply outstrips the demand.

[–]ptpatil 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are stating the same thing again, you also sound like you really want BTC to work out as an investment for you.

I am not arguing that BTC is not setup to be a good currency, only that the value of currency is almost never tied to how good of a system of currency it is, nor where the intrinsic value of currency lies.

The whole point of currency is to not have a intrinsic value that is all or most of the subjective value to a large group of trading partners.

Listen to the Planet Money podcast on ancient currencies like the huge stone tablets that no one could move, but were simply agreed upon as units of currency, and transactions had a simple primitive local consensus.

However, that currency is no longer around because all the people who used it are dead. Again, most of the value of a currency comes from the people that use it, not the intrinsic usefulness of the currency.

The U.S. dollar is a good currency because it has the trust, value and guarantee of violence from a very powerful tribe of people, not because the paper its printed on is useful. Value is very subjective, as a seasoned swing and forex trader, anyone that tries to tell me that such and such currency is good because of the system that currency operates in I label as asinine.

BTC might be a good investment if somehow more people adopt it, cryptocurrency might be a good investment if things happen the right way. But to say that any entry point in the currency is good because it is morally right, or intrinsically valued because of the electricity and hardware costs in vetting transactions is hilariously stupid, I would never lend you or anyone else who holds such a position my money to trade.

I trade BTC, because I feel like the speculative pressures of the current climate of trade and thought favors it. I feel like I can easily gain profits from it using machine learning on the block chain and exchange prices/graphs. I do not trade it because its some moral libertarian crusade of mine.

[–]Aalewis__ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

/u/changetip 25 satoshi

[–]5817707 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ty ty

[–]changetip -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Bitcoin tip for 25 satoshi has been collected by 5817707.

ChangeTip info | ChangeTip video | /r/Bitcoin