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Introduction
Many readers of ROK may believe that feminism, with its supposed goal of achieving equality between men and women by promoting women’s rights, is a relatively new concept that was developed after the Industrial Revolution. However, at least one attempt to implement women’s rights occurred in antiquity, in the land of ancient Sparta.
The very name Sparta makes one think of the epitome of manliness; a society composed of tall, muscular, and highly disciplined soldiers. The Spartans were ruthless warriors who despised weakness and cowardice. Given Sparta’s penchant for manliness, it may come as some surprise to learn that Sparta, of all the Greek city-states, had the most liberal civil laws when it came to the rights of its women.
In Spartan society, women could own estates, travel freely without male escort, and even initiate divorce. These rights were far from the historical norm. Indeed, one may see many parallels between women’s rights in Ancient Sparta and those found in the modern developed world.
Given how the manosphere, and by extension ROK, finds many laws related to feminism and the sexual revolution to be harmful to society, it is imperative that those involved in the manosphere understand how such laws came into practice in the first place. The implementation of laws supporting women’s rights is a function of the economy, and come into existence only through economic necessity. Spartan civilization provides a perfect example of this.
The events that led to the implementation of women’s rights in Sparta
Spartan civilization was warrior-based, meaning that little effort was put into developing agriculture and art, and much effort was put into pillaging and stealing lands and wealth from other civilizations. When the Spartans conquered an enemy, they enslaved the populace and turned their lands into plantations. The enslaved people were expected to provide produce and goods to their Spartan masters. Slave revolts were common, and Sparta needed a large standing army in order to quell any rebellions that might occur.
When Sparta conquered the neighboring territory of Messenia in the late 8th century B.C., the first step in granting women more legal rights was taken. Sparta gained the valuable assets of fertile land and slaves by conquering Messenia, but Sparta faced new challenges through this victory. With such a large slave population, Sparta needed a much larger army to make sure the slaves didn’t rebel against their masters.
By increasing the size of their army, there were fewer Spartan men on the home front to manage estates and the non-military and other economic aspects of Spartan civilization. Because of this, it became an economic necessity to grant women more political freedom so they could take the place of men by managing the estates and civil affairs of Sparta.
After the conquest of Messenia, the Spartan constitution was reformed so that women could have formal titles to property, as well as the legal rights, training and capability to do with land as Spartan men did. This was to provide an incentive to Spartan women to maintain the estates, because it is hard to motivate someone if they cannot profit from the fruits of their labor.
The decline of women’s rights in Sparta
However, the rights women acquired did not last forever. These rights, which provided women with the necessary tools to successfully run estates, also increased the opportunity cost of having children. With women having more freedom than ever before, they ended up producing fewer children. By the early 4th
century B.C., Sparta’s population was one-fifth of what it had been 200 years prior, an astonishing reduction. It is interesting to note that this is also the case in the modern developed world, where birth rates have been below replacement levels for decades.
This shocking drop in population resulted in a smaller army, as fewer men were being born. Sparta’s military was weakened. With Sparta’s defeat by Thebes in 370 B.C., the Messenians revolted and defeated the Spartans. This defeat caused the Spartans to lose a significant amount of territory, as well as the large slave population they depended upon for their material well-being.
Because of this loss, there was no reason to maintain the constitutional reforms that gave Spartan women their rights, and by the time of the Romans (post-146 B.C.) Spartan women were again solely known for their domestic virtues and roles in religious ceremonies. Sparta even established a magistrate that oversaw the behavior of women, which would have been unthinkable during the Spartan occupation of Messenia. By this time, women’s rights in Sparta were finished.
What Can We Learn From Spartan History?
One of the most important things we can learn from Spartan history is that women’s rights were historically enacted not out of ideology, but rather out of economic necessity. There is a direct causation between the capture of Messenia and the rise of women’s rights, as there is a direct causation between the loss of Messenia and the revoking of women’s rights.
Keep in mind it was Spartan men who held governmental power, and it was Spartan men who gave women their short-lived economic and societal influence. They did this for shrewd economic purposes, and were not driven by ideology, even through the Spartan men were very democratic and considered themselves as “homoioi,” or the “equal ones,” and therefore did not lack ideology.
Clearly, women’s rights in ancient Sparta was self-defeating, as the reduction in population weakened the army that held up the economic system in the first place. Hopefully, we can learn from history and try to correct the mistakes of the past.
Note: Credit goes to
this piece for inspiring this article, and the original research paper this article is based on can be found
here.
Ken Bourne
is just a regular guy. When he took the red pill, it confirmed the lifelong feeling that there was something wrong with society. He hopes to educate others and promote reasoned discussion in order to find truth. Ken Bourne has a STEM degree, but thinks college is a big scam that needs reforming. He studies Arabic and history in his spare time, and plans on traveling the world.
How to make money without a boss. How to be driven. How to get big and lean. How to get free. It's all covered at
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If feminists gain what they seem to so desire, and create some form of matriarchal utopia, they will find that they will be held back more than they ever were under the 'patriarchy'. Women are each others worst enemy - and they know this. Women in power? End of civilisation. Hillary Clinton in power? End of America.
Women are desperate to be like men, that it now looks ridiculous.
Men are the true innovators and entrepreneurs of our time. We build companies and revolutionise this world. That is not a an opinion, but an actual fact. If you look back through history, you will see that all of the greatest entrepreneurs, industrialists and innovators were men. Andrew Carnegie, Bill Gates, Laxmi Mittal, Richard Branson etc. The list goes on and on. Now how many women have achieved what those couple of examples have accomplished? Not that many.
Which is why power can corrupt us as individual, if we misuse and abuse it. In this case, what women are doing to men. As long as feminism is entrenched in everything, from the family courts, the media, government and now employment, men will continue to get hit by this tidal wave. Feminism is the epitome and definition of meritocracy not having any real value. More women continue to displace men in the labor market, because they know they cannot compete and earn their way into the world. Yet they will scream, that somehow, they have worked and earned their place in society.
Despite having all the same opportunities as those great men (and others), women will say that the magical mystical patriarchy held them back so they couldn't experience the same successes. The reason women replace men in the labour market is because of affirmative action and "gender quotas". Any power that women hold is because of what other males have given them. Yet despite how much they have, they still want more. And they keep getting more. It sickens me.
True. But don't forget the corruption of HR departments- when they hire men for a job, they also fire them at the end of the day, and replace them with a female candidate.
That way, they can say that they tried hiring a male, but he was not sufficient for the job.
Sickening if you ask me. As long as HR departments continue to exist, men will find it more and more difficult to enter the workforce and will find themselves either unemployed or as the trophy husband.
Notice how the really dumb and low I.Q. females are hit the hardest by the women's lib propaganda. Really with any propaganda, the dummies fall for it the hardest and it's hard to peel them away from the thought patterns without peeling away their friggin' SKIN along with it. A fairly bright girl who can think for herself though will ditch the feminism with little afterthought whereas the borderline RETARD bitch will continue babbling ''I need pants'', ''I can't raise kids'', ''I need to be independent'' ad nauseum . . and they continue spewing the shit and trying to run with it until they crash and bust their pea brain against the wall. They're the worst fatalities of the feminist poisoning.
A society that is dependent on men to fight an do the hard work has no place for feminism. Feminism only becomes strong in societies that have an excess of resources a economics so they don't need the men to survive, there's exceptions but this is the general rule. Once the west collapses socially an economically as it has started to feminism will become irrelevant.
It hasn't fully collapsed yet, the West still has most of the worlds resources an unemployment hasn't reached breaking point yet. Propaganda an media are pushing the feminist cause though which didn't happen in ancient societies you're spot on there.
Because it never has and never will occur to them that any of the decline is their fault. They have attacked men for fifty years now from every angle; family, court, education, media, pop culture. Now that the attack is showing some signs of effectiveness their response is;
"We knew we were right all along. We knew you guys were losers."
The more they destroy and the more they make the US uninhabitable to men, the more they will blame men for leaving and being 'weak' or whatever pejorative they want to use. The place will end up in ashes and the women will STILL be celebrating the fact that they were 'right.'
You will know the collapse is here when one of two things happens. Governments declare bankruptct and stop all welfare programs or the more likely, it takes a billion dollars to buy an apple.
This is not entirely correct. Sparta was highly dependent on its men to do the fighting. Thats why women took over the domestic economy. Thats more or less the major point of the article. When men are all drafted to perform military duties, female labour force is required. Resources are not abundant, since women need to split their effort between either childrearing or entering the workforce as normal laborers in a citystate experiencing a labor shortage. And the men are highly needed as soldiers in the field. There is full employment among the male population.
That is most likely true. They did not engage in manuel labor. But nor did the majority of male spartans. Acting as managers and administrators is still work, but more similar to modern day White collar jobs.
good point: it was a sexual division of labour with rights accompanying that division of labour. Today, rights are tied to the destruction of a division of labour based upon gender.
I meant feminism as an ideal, not women working mens jobs coz there was a shortage of men like what the case was with the spartans. The spartans weren't really feminists, their women weren't going around saying we need eqaul amounts of females in the spartan army or shaming spartan men for their masculan culture like modern day feminists, they just had to take up male roles coz the men were away fighting, that's not feminism.
Well yes. I think the author is pushing it a Little when he calls the spartan division of labor and early experiment with feminism. Extensive female labor participation was based more on a necessity than an underlying ideology based on human rights.
Exactly but he does state that in the article though. It does show how putting women in the work force on a mass scale an keeping them from traditional feminine roles affects society in a negative way same as modern feminism though.
My point still stands as The Spartans didn't yet have an excess of resources, they still needed to expand their territory an gain more slaves which is why putting females in traditional male roles hurt their society.
I skimmed through the 300+ channels in a hotel room the other night. My eye was caught by footage of some Cancun/South Padre style spring break footage. Wet t-shirt/thong/twerkathon style competition thing. Girls up on stage with the mc gauging the crowd reaction. Yeah, my eye was caught by it, okay. Great bodies, basically nude. But they acted like complete pigs. This was lower than animal behavior. It was the most over the top air humping, ass-cheek shaking, breast cupping raunchiness I've ever seen. They were American white girls acting like complete assholes. Yeah, the god-given bodies were beautiful. They would have been 50 times more erotic if they'd just stood there smiling. The thrusting obvious overexposure was just straight boring. 15 years ago, if I'd seen a busty 20 year in a wet t-shirt, that image would have hit me like lightning. Like "Wow". I'd think about it the next day, still kind of dazed. These days, it's just a turn-off and nearly gross. Yeah, the internet is partially to blame but the absolutely lack of femininity is responsible too. They acted like pigs. They act like how men would act if they had tits to show off. Okay, that's weird. But my point is that they have a 100% masculine attitude towards sexuality these days. Pure aggressiveness and unrestraint. "These are my tools. Watch me shake them like an idiot." I'm not being sarcastic here. It was so stupid. I'm so glad I'm overseas where women have dignity and true sexual pride. Not getting up on stage like these Anglo pigs and spreading their anus open like a proctology exam for the whole world to see like depraved trannies on ecstasy and angel dust.
Conclusion: Men should decide what's good for themselves, for women, and for society because women don't know what the fuck they're doing and can't help themselves from injecting feelings into their opinions
"You -- what is your profession?" "Gender studies." "You -- what's yours?" "Barista." "And you?" "Online blogger." "ROOSHANS! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?!" "WAR!" "You see, my friend? You brought many men -- but I brought more warriors."
The ideal state is one where all men are warriors, but only when they have to be. Cincinnatus working his fields, appointed dictator of Rome to fight off the barbarians, then goes right back to being a farmer. You want to be Switzerland, every male with assault rifles and a couple years of training, not Sparta with every male sentenced to being eternal soldiers and slaves to ruling over slaves.
Eh, this is more like an interesting suggestion for men to research on their own. Not a definitive explanation. If men care to that is.
The fact is, feminism is a by-product of wealthier nations. Romans, Spartans, and the Modern West all have allowed it.
But their is something drastically different this time!
Women are the sole chooser of when, where, and with whom they get knocked up. More than ever before. They also have the right to vote, even the Spartans knew better than that.
Since the cat is out of the bag however, what does one do?
I suggest follow the male version of the feminist playbook. It has been done before, but men and women alike were quick to put down any men's movement of the past.
The Internet is our advantage over our predecessors.
If men as a whole reduce women to their modern role, and completely decouple them from the privilege of the past. Then men will never have to listen to these harpies ever again.
However, we cannot do as the feminists have done when it comes to going against biology. If we tell men not to fuck, we will get laughed at. If we tell men to do it like African Elephants, letting the women have their little matriarchies, while men only come to bang, then we still get offspring. But we lose out on civilization.
So, a new paradigm, distinct from the marital paradigm of the past will be required.
I agree. Feminism is the result of a certain level of affluence in society. It repeats itself throughout history (someone posted a picture on ROK once that talks about certain liberal ideals that were encouraged in the decline of the Roman Empire that are being repeated today during the decline of the West; I wish I had the picture!). The internet is an advantage we have today, but it is also an advantage that they have as well, so the net effect is zero.
If all men decided tomorrow that women should return to their designed roles, society would get back on track. However ,most men are so brainwashed by leftist values that this would be impossible ("if I kiss her ass enough, she'll DEFINITELY have sex with me!!").
Call me a pessimist, but I truly believe society will have to burn to the ground for it to be righted. The question for me is: will wecontinue repeating this societal cycle?
Sex robots and surrogates? Japanese men are embracing the former.
We do need to reduce the global population. It can be done uniformly through a one child policy. Automation will lead to work becoming redundant. It makes sense to have fewer people around over generations.
The problem is that this is done in a silly and ideological way.
Why can't the government just come out and admit that depopulation is a GOOD thing? The agricultural land is so depleted people get 1/2 to 1/10th of the minerals they did in the 1930s, when the agricultural land was already somewhat depleted. There are so many people alive, even the food has become degraded.
As supertechnology becomes ubiquitous (imagine being able to make a nuclear bomb in a 3d printer), we NEED surveillance and thought control. Eventually we HAVE to merge into one consciousness, or some form of universal regulation, or some idiot somewhere will inevitably destroy the entire solar system with his home-made fusion bomb. Consider how dangerous the world is with nuclear proliferation amongst states. Imagine how dangerous it will become with such proliferation amongst *people*.
However, the way this sensible approach is being implemented seems to me to be rather vicious. Why are men penalised, even though we're the most logical and careful?
WE MEN create empires. WE MEN create civilizations. We MEN are the creators of worlds..... Women consume....Women breed....they have a supporting role...that is it and nothing else. This is the truth they face everyday in their lives...and the truth that lesser-man (betas/manginas/male SJW) MUST face.
Also the Spartans had a slave underclass, called the Helots. But at some point helots were like 95% of the population in Sparta. It's all fun and games to have a slave underclass until they revolt and take over. It reminds of white Americans who absolutely want hordes of Mexicans working at minimum wage for them. Because they are too lazy to do the job themselves or pay people acceptable wages, they want Mexican cheap labor instead But the Mexicans are slowly taking over the US. They are what, something like 20% of the population now?
" Because they are too lazy to do the job themselves or pay people acceptable wages, "
Bullshit. Farm work was done by white men before the Jews and CEOverlords learned that they could import the 3rd world's scum and pay them 1:5 what a white man would earn.
Whitey has never been "Too lazy" to build a house.
The same goes for H1B visa holders in the tech industry.
Australia is 92% white + 7% Asian. Do you believe that their "Lack of diversity" has lead to mass starvation?
I agree with you. What I am saying is that those who want Mexican immigrants are the lazy ones. They can't even raise their own children, do the chores or maintain their lawn themselves. They would rather use Mexicans instead. Hard-working white men do not need or want Mexicans.
"Because they are too lazy to do the job themselves or pay people
acceptable wages, they want Mexican cheap labor"
Illegals get everything free without taxes and with no consequences for not obeying laws like having a driver's license and insurance. They have more rights and freedoms than citizens do. All those labor laws, min wage, etc, those only apply to the citizens/serfs and those who employ them. Once, the Democrats create such a system and make sure laws are selectively enforced, then employers have to hire illegals or go out of business.
Were Spartan women powerful, relative to Spartan men? No. That needs to be stressed. They had much more power compared to other Western women at the time, but this was balanced by the fact that Spartan men were themselves so powerful compared to other Europeans. Women inheriting and owning property is a stupid idea, though as we can tell from the article it became a necessity. Men need to work their land and remain a dominant domestic presence, in addition to living as warriors.
Probably why the US Founding Fathers recommended such a model - mind our own business and stay near home and tend our fields, but if anyone attacks us, let's rip their intestines out through their assholes.
It was a good attempt. The women fubared it though, once again, in their efforts to make the world "nice."
"Hopefully it doesnt break the west beyond repair along with it" It will. I think moderated immigration is beneficial, but that is hardly what America has.
Pretty much the only places not infected with feminism are in the Middle East.
Even South America, where Machismo is so heralded, is showing the signs of pulling on the pink panties.
Chile over-ruled divorce in the nineties, installing no-fault divorce in its place (with much help and funding from North American NGO's). Mexico passed a law a few years ago making it illegal for men to make women jealous - seriously! (It's a form of domestic violence).
There is not one corner of the world except for the Middle East that is not infected by feminism. It's a global world, and this will be a global battle, or we will fall back into the petri-dish and reproduce asexually again until we again emerge over the edge of the dish and crawl out of the lab to try it all over ONE MORE TIME! (Note to descendents: Get better locks on the chastity belts next time!).
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