全ての 9 コメント

[–]chabanaisSi vis pacem, para bellum. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The system ancaps want to setup (decentralized law society) is one where bribery doesn't work anymore because no one can force laws on anyone else.

So how does that work in reality?

Bribery will always work because it is human nature.

[–]Anen-o-me[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So how does that work in reality?

Bribery will always work because it is human nature.

Imagine we're all living in international waters where there is no government. In the absence of government we're all politically equivalent. None of us can force laws by right on anyone else.

We could form a government with that power, but for the purposes of this discussion let's imagine that for whatever reason we do not do this.

Instead we decide to interact with each other on the basis of mutual contract. Essentially we are all sovereigns on our boats, and co-equal in this regard.

Thus you can't force your laws on my boat, I can't force laws on your boat. We operate under an assumption of voluntary law and private property.

Now let's say you want me to accept a rule/law on my boat that people can wear shoes onto the boat. I currently have a rule of no shoes, because I don't like cleaning up dirt, let's say.

You cannot force this law on me at all, but you could try to bribe me. Now what's the difference between a bribe and a payment under this scenario? Undoubtedly if you offered me more money than cleaning dirt out of my boat was worth to me, then I'd accept your rule. But this wouldn't be a bribe. A bribe is always less than the policy is worth to the affected party.

If instead this society had a central government administrator capable of making laws for all the boats at once, then we could bribe him to make the 'shoes okay' law, and by that means force that law on me.

But since the administrator doesn't care about shoes on his boat, he is likely to accept a far smaller bribe than I would be willing to accept for the same law.

That's how it works.

By rejecting the idea that some people in society must be able to force laws on everyone else in society you setup a situation where bribery is effectively impossible, because no one could possibly bribe you to accept a law that was worth less to you than the cost of the law they want you to accept.

What's more, if I wanted to hold-out and never accept any amount of money for that law, i can do so, because it's up to me. But if there's a law creator, he can override my will calling it the decision of the collective, the democracy, and by that means force law on me.

Voluntarist law then is inherently individualist law. This is partly why conservatives are undoubtedly collectivist / socialist, because they are supporting a political system based on democracy which uses the collectivist means of decision-making known as voting, to justify forcing laws on everyone in that society.

In an individualist system, if two people want one law and a third wants a different law, the two get their law and the one gets his law. This is virtually impossible in a democracy.

[–]imperator-vitae 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get that there aren't many real-world examples to draw from that's favorable to autarky, but the incessant hypothetical scenarios your lot spews gets annoying, and while not entirely useless, is far from self-sufficient. Coming in, calling conservatives socialists, and gabbing on about boats does little to convince anyone to buy your snake-oil.

[–]pumpyourstillskin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Anarcho-Capitalism is one of those things where you can legitimately say every single believer is a fucking moron. Liberals are misguided, but are often quite intelligent. But, when someone tells you they are an Anarcho-Capitalist, you can immediately write them off as stupid and incapable.

So, thanks for being open about your beliefs.

[–]Anen-o-me[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a contentless post without supporting rationale that you should be ashamed of.

At the very least give one reason why you think this way.

I'm sure you believe one of any number of things that I realized were untrue when leaving conservatism myself to become ancap, and I could then disabuse you of your mistaken notions.

But either way I don't really care if you answer or not. The conservative political influence in the US is continually waning and ancaps / libertarians are where the future is headed.

[–]imperator-vitae 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not an ancap, but I think it's something of the other way around. Ancaps tend to read a lot of libertarian literature, which can skewed and is objectionable in its own right, but some people like Bastiat, Mises, and Hayek can get some things right. There are some more cosmopolitan ancaps that are just in it for the sex and drugs, but some are really nerdy about it.

[–]jgardnerReagan Conservative 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You don't understand what conservatives believe and why. Go do your homework before trying to tell us why we're wrong. Go start your own political movement and convince people rather than trying to hijack ours.

[–]Anen-o-me[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't understand what conservatives believe and why.

Oh I think I do, considering I called myself one for a good 20 years or so. I think you need to believe this in order to discount my opinion however.

Go do your homework before trying to tell us why we're wrong.

It was doing my homework that turned me into an ancap, my actual political beliefs didn't change, they only became more consistent. Conservatives talk about liberty and supporting markets, but don't apply it consistently across their ideology. Ancaps do.

Go start your own political movement and convince people rather than trying to hijack ours.

You should feel threatened, yes, because libertarians are actively infiltrating the republican party. However I don't believe in political power and do not support that tactic myself.

[–]imperator-vitae 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The thing with ancaps is that they have such a broad definition of socialism that it's almost meaningless. For a conservative, socialism is more akin to overtaxing and forcing people into government services "for the public good". Maybe there's a bit of a hazy line in this, but to reduce socialism to "government doing literally anything" is a laughable definition that only ancaps will ever use. You're also ignoring the most prominent aspect of conservatism, which is conserving cultural values, not necessarily government institutions, although the two can be linked (e.g. valuing self-defense translates to a robust military, militias, and high private gun-ownership). Socialists vary wildly in this dimension; I have a friend who's a socialist, and is a member of some socialist rifle association, but there are socialists who only want the state to own and use arms "for the public good".

My suggestion, stop sipping the kool-aid long enough to read a book on political philosophy not heavily biased towards libertarianism.