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Does smoking on Church Street actually bother anyone? (self.burlington)

Landis9 が 投稿

I don't like smoking, but to have a 24 hour ban on Church Street seems not fair. The main reason for the ban that I keep hearing about is the secondhand smoke. Do people really believe secondhand smoke outdoors is hurting anyone?

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[–]nlpnt 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nobody's mentioned butts? That's the major component of litter, people who wouldn't dream of throwing out a candy wrapper, let alone a cup, think nothing of tossing a cigarette butt on the ground 10 feet away from an ashtray and walking away.

[–]pweeni'm back baby 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yes, littering is a huge problem and anyone who throws a butt on the ground should get ticketed.

[–]Yeti60Winooski 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think technically 2nd hand smoke outdoors can negatively affect people. For me though, speaking from a comfort perspective, it doesn't affect me.

[–]mramazerful 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For me its the type of people that are generally loitering, smoking and blocking the street.

[–]pweeni'm back baby 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

they arent going to enforce it (i believe the cops even said this).

unless of course you look like a bum or a rowdy youth loitering.

i'm mad surprised it's 24 hours, like they expect all the people in the bars to walk up the road to smoke at 12am...

dumb fucking law.

[–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (5子コメント)

the true intent of this law isnt public health related. it was made so there can be a legal reason to kick out the pan handlers and annoying teenagers that hang out in front of OGE because the business owners dont want them harassing customers.

[–]squidsquidsquidcat hotel 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep. To clean up the whole area around the bus stop.

[–]formerteenager 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds reasonable.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Rickyjesus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They've tried in the past but there was a lot of pushback from the community. It would actually make a lot of sense to have the bus terminal in a less congested traffic area, however it seems the cigarette smoking lugi hockers like church st.

    [–]Adrenaline_ -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm ok with that

    [–]Batch_5 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I may be in the minority but it REALLY bothers me. There have been numerous times I have been eating food outside when someone stops right near me and starts lighting up their cig and puffs away... nothing makes my meal more appetizing than some lovely cig smoke wafting in.

    I know this law seems to have an ulterior motive, and maybe it does but i couldn't care less about what people do on church st as long as it doesn't directly impact me (smoking). We all know the city is going to do as it pleases to maintain the yuppie rich playground that Burlington proper/downtown makes itself out to be.

    [–]Rickyjesus -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Does it really bother you physically? Like does it cause respiratory irritation? Or would you say it bothers you that someone's doing something you don't think they should be doing?

    [–]Samzsanzfinds cats 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    To be fair, people smoking near me does give me a sore throat and I start coughing. I have weak little lungs or something.

    That said, this law is obviously less about public health and more about public poverty, so even given my own particularly fragile lungs, I can't bring myself to approve of the ban. I find the people outside the OGX to be annoying as hell, but I don't think criminalizing their activities is helpful in the larger picture.

    [–]Batch_5 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Usually cigarette smoke causes my eyes to water a bit, and me to cough, plus ruins my ability to smell the delicious food i just paid a ton for.... so annoyance. I am slightly more sensitive to it than most i would say.

    [–]smacksawMontreal + Rouses Point 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It bothers me in the sense that it's like someone spraying cheap cologne in my face or squishing dog shit in my face.

    It's an revolting smell that is unwelcome. It's so rude to impose that on others. The worst are smokers with bad breath/shitty lungs. Their secondhand smoke is the worst.

    I don't know why smokers don't get that. I have clean clothes and hair. I don't wanna smell like your dirty teeth, phlegm lung and smoke.

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    i am a smoker and i dont smoke near people eating or children. but public space is public space. you will always encounter people you dont agree with. ban all of them and no one will be able to go outside.

    [–]Adrenaline_ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Don't be an ass. If you ask somebody if smoking irritates them physically, don't then give them shit for answering you.

    [–]ntmera 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I dislike the smell of cigarettes

    [–]YourAverageCracker 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    24 hour ban seams a bit over the top. As a smoker I understand that during the day when people are eating outside people don't want smoke blowing into their faces. But there is absolutely no reason for a smoking ban after, lets say 10 pm. Kids should be off the street and people are mostly done eating. Just your typical, we are better than you, we know whats best for you, Burlington City Council mentality.

    [–]MarconanO.N.E. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Good point.

    [–]Picardtrick 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Do people really believe secondhand smoke outdoors is hurting anyone?

    Peer-reviewed research shows us that smoking outside does hurt other people. Below I'll repost a portion of a comment I made when the ban was first passed. I am fully in favor of this ban for both public health reasons and because it makes it so much more pleasant on Church Street not to have to walk through obnoxious stenchclouds. (I should add that while you're likely to see mostly negative responses here due to Redditor self-selection, the general public is consistently in favor of public smoking bans, including outdoor bans.)

    Salivary cotinine, a marker of secondhand smoke particulate exposure in nonsmokers, is frequently used to evaluate exposure levels. One study compared cotinine levels in nonsmokers after time spent around outdoor smokers near hospitality businesses (outdoor bars or outdoor restaurants, much like we have on Church Street) or at an outdoor control site without smoking. Median increases in salivary cotinine were approximately 162% and 102% for nonsmokers in the outdoor areas of exposure, while the control level was just 16% (Hall et al. 2009).

    Another study measured salivary cotinine in saliva as well as NNAL (a tobacco processing metabolite, a known pulmonary carcinogen) in urine samples from non-smokers before and after being near smokers at an outside restaurant or bar or at a smoke-free control site (St.Helen et al. 2012). Cotinine in samples collected both immediately after and the morning following 3-hr visits to the outside restaurant sites were significantly higher than in the control samples, and "NNAL was significantly higher in first morning urine samples after bar and restaurant site visits." Again, NNAL is a nitrosamine metabolite - it's one of the most prominent carcinogens in cigarettes and leading evidence suggests that it's responsible for lots o'cancers.

    In 2007 a study in Air and Waste Management found that secondhand smoke levels near an active smoker, even one who was smoking outside, were a significant risk to nonsmokers. (Kleipeis, Ott & Switzer 2007). I shouldn't have to tell you that secondhand smoke has been proven over and over again to be very dangerous; one in ten cigarette-related deaths happen because of someone else's smoke. That same study found that microplumes of tobacco smoke near an outdoor smoker can reach levels over 1000 μg/m3. "Clean" background air pollution levels are under 20 μg/m3. It's also been shown that secondhand smoke is concentrated more in areas with blocked wind, walls and awnings - just like Church Street.

    Forget those of us walking around, how about the people who work in the businesses on Church Street? Those folks are even more at risk. In 2009 a study found that hospitality workers are at the exact same risk of secondhand smoke exposure from people smoking on adjoining patios/outdoor smoking areas as they would be if smokers were still allowed to smoke inside those businesses! (Cameron et al. 2009)

    In sum: outdoor bans are awesome, especially in areas with high concentrations of people and limited airflow. Outdoor bans also help denormalize outdoor smoking, which is an effective methodology in helping people consider quitting. This is getting into behavioral science and social norms research, which I can continue to cite if people are interested.

    Cameron, M.; Brennan, E.; Durkin, SJ; Borland, R.; Travers, MJ; Hyland, A.; Spittal, MJ; Wakefield, MA, Secondhand smoke exposure (PM2.5) in outdoor dining areas and its correlates. Tobacco Control October 21, 2009.

    Hall JC, Bernert JT, Hall DB, St HG, Kudon LH, Naeher LP. 2009. Assessment of exposure to secondhand smoke at outdoor bars and family restaurants in Athens, Georgia, using salivary cotinine. J Occup Environ Hyg 6:698–704.

    Klepeis, NE.; Ott, WR.; Switzer, P., Real-time measurement of outdoor tobacco smoke particles. Journal of the Air & Waste Management Association 57: 522-534, 2007.

    St.Helen, G, Bernert, JT, Hall, DB, Sosnoff, CS, Xia, Y, Balmes, JR, et al. 2012. Exposure to secondhand smoke outside of a bar and a restaurant and tobacco exposure biomarkers in nonsmokers. Environ Health Perspect 120:1010–1016.

    [–]Rickyjesus 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    You will still have to walk through "stench clouds" when you visit church street as people will continue to smoke there. What you don't seem to understand is that just because something has a public health benefit doesn't automatically make it the right thing to do. We would all be safer if we stayed locked up indoors and sanitized everything we touch. The issue is that it's fun to smoke, it's fun to drive fast cars, or have unprotected sex. Sure everyone knows it isn't smart, but I wouldn't want to live in a world where fun was outlawed.

    [–]smacksawMontreal + Rouses Point 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Drive fast cars...on a racetrack. Not in public.

    Smoke in your bathroom at home. Not in public.

    Go nuts. Do whatever you like. But don't endanger the rest of us.

    [–]Rickyjesus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Have you never done anything reckless and enjoyed it? Being a teenager, smoking cigarettes on Church st and being rude to yuppies is a right of passage in this town. It has been since long long before the Marketplace was even built in 1980. Like it or not, Burlington's native sons have more right to any piece of that street than a bunch of whiny yuppies who don't want their precious children to smell smoke.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So much for not being insulting, eh?

    [–]Picardtrick 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    You will still have to walk through "stench clouds" when you visit church street as people will continue to smoke there.

    Mm-hmm, and now I can and will report them for ticketing. This is how the smoking ban in my previous city came to be pretty well self-enforcing, since most people are vocally in favor of these bans. Regardless, even if there are fewer stenchclouds it's a better situation for all.

    We would all be safer if we stayed locked up indoors and sanitized everything we touch. The issue is that it's fun to smoke, it's fun to drive fast cars, or have unprotected sex

    When you have unprotected sex, you're only endangering yourself. When you smoke in a crowd you're endangering everyone around you, including kids. I'm baffled that you can't understand the difference between those two scenarios.

    [–]Rickyjesus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Oh my goodness!!! I completely forgot to think of the children!!! It wouldn't be a moral stump speech without that classic argument.
    It really blows my mind how closed minded people are about this.
    Btw the police will not appreciate you calling ten times a day to report people smoking, they have many more important things to do.

    [–]smacksawMontreal + Rouses Point 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Closed minded?

    No one wants to smell that shit against their will.

    Where's the disconnect here?

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    its legal to smoke. so deal with it. your personal issues do not have any right to trump my freedom as a smoker. ecig ban is just stupid. this new law will die.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    No it won't. Smoking is legal, but not everywhere. Are you on the same tirade and mission to get smoking legal in bars and restaurants?

    [–]OrganicDanceMachine -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Personally I think there is a huge difference between smoking inside in what is essentially a non-ventilated space and smoking outside where the smoke dissipates. Don't like smoke in your face? Move ten feet down the street. You will encounter quite a few people in your life who live lifestyles contrary to what you believe is right, I suggest you start learning how to live with them now

    [–]Adrenaline_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Don't like smoke in your face? Move ten feet down the street.

    That's not possible when I'm sitting down enjoying dinner outside at Scuffer for half priced burgers. I can't just get up and walk away.

    The more reasonable thing to do would be to ask the smoker to walk 20 feet away off of Church street and have their cigarette. It's literally 20 feet from any point to a location you could smoke.

    I'm not making any judgement about if I think smoking is "right" or not. You can smoke all you want; just don't impose that smoke on me. That's where your lifestyle infringes on my rights to breathe. I don't care if you smoke. That's up to you and I'm not making a moral judgement, even though you wish I was because it would fit your world view and narrative about people that don't like to breathe your smoke. I suggest you learn how to respect people's rights to not have their health affected by your smoke. You could be a Nobel Peace Prize winner...I still don't want to breathe your smoke.

    [–]shizzy0 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Once I noticed that cigarette butts were all over Church street, my tolerance for smoking went way down. It's just ugly. I'll be happy to see smoking banned just to keep the litter off the street.

    [–]Rickyjesus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Maybe you're looking harder than me, but I think the marketplace does a pretty good job keeping the street clean. If the city wanted to start an initiative to regularly clean and maintain the sidewalks and gutters in the downtown core that aren't part of the marketplace I would support it.

    [–]whatsupvt 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Well yes, secondhand smoke does hurt people. I also don't like having to walk through it. How is it not fair for people to not want to have to think about the air that they're breathing while outdoors in Vermont?

    Even if the "true intent" isn't public health minded, I still appreciate it.

    [–]Rickyjesus -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I don't think fairness should factor into it. Smoking is bad and that's okay. It's just something we have to live with and that's okay. Some people like to panhandle on church st while chain smoking and taking occasional heroin breaks in the few remaining public bathrooms. Is smoking really what's wrong with church st?

    [–]whatsupvt 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Why do we have to live with it? Burlington is taking a step in a positive direction so that we don't. I'm not saying there aren't other problems with church street. I'm saying that the ban makes one less.

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    in theory maybe. in practice this would make things worse. where are the smokers going to go? this is not a solution. this is a sham. have smoking areas. have non smoking areasif its a privately owned business. also have people shut the fuck up about being disturbed in public. i dont like the smell of roasting coffee beans on church street when they do it every day at 5. should we ban that? pussies.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    20 feet in either direction. Church street is narrow. It's not a Burlington ban, it's a church street ban.

    Coffe smell doesn't harm your body. Smoking does. The real pussies are the people that can't walk 20 feet to smoke instead of imposing that health risk on other people.

    [–]bluepied 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The truth is...no one cares about giving smokers more places to smoke! Cigarettes suck --- why spend a penny on trying to create a solution for a shitty habit? You forget we live in a state that proudly beats its chest over health and wellness promotion...smokers are a dying breed. I also think cig smokers should be fined for littering.

    And probably have their internet speeds throttled as well, since they clog up our air.

    [–]Rickyjesus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    As ninth generation Vermonter I think I'm safe in saying that you don't speak for the state. The reason our air used to be clean because we didn't have quite so many yuppies whining about organic produce and cigarettes. Burlington only ever had clean air for you because all our mills closed down before you moved here. That's why we built Church st in the first place, to save the town from becoming a post industrial ruin. All the Vermont charm the community poured into that project back in 1980 has long since been stripped away by gentrification, I'm not sure there's more than one or two of the original businesses left. This smoking ban is not a public health initiative. It is class warfare aimed squarely at the children and grandchildren of the people who literally built this city.

    [–]whatsupvt 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't understand how this could make things worse. People aren't going to stop going to church street. A walk to a smoking area isn't going to be different from a walk down the street to another street. And again, until the smell of coffee starts truly polluting the air or causing reactions in people with asthma or coffee smell sensitivities it shouldn't be banned. People aren't pussies for wanting clean breathing air.

    [–]duncym 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (30子コメント)

    Ita horrible sitting near or being near a smoker. so yes

    [–]pweeni'm back baby 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (29子コメント)

    it's horrible sitting near or being near someone with a lot of perfume or really bad body odor as well. so i avoid those people.

    [–]smacksawMontreal + Rouses Point 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know why people think they have a right to do shit that disturbs other people.

    If someone was yelling in your face, it's unwelcome and rude. You'd maybe get a ticket for disturbing the peace. But some fuckwad can wear a bottle of Drakkar on an airplane and make everyone miserable for 6 hours?

    Ticket people for that shit.

    [–]Darth_Awesome 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Good point, ban that too!

    [–]whatsupvt 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (26子コメント)

    You cant compare body odor to something that physically harms your body.

    [–]pweeni'm back baby 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    which raises a new point: at what point do we draw the line between harm to the body (someone else smoking) and harm to the mind (someone else's foul smell)?

    also, it's outside dude. those cars driving past you and the wood burning for your electricity nearby and countless other air pollutant sources nearby are still there and probably more prevalent than the brief exposure to a teeny bit of cigarette smoke blowing in the wind.

    [–]Adrenaline_ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Do you have a source that says those things are more harmful and prevalent than standing near a smoker?

    [–]squidsquidsquidcat hotel -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'd way rather be near a smoker than someone doused in cologne or perfume.

    Edit: And I love it when a South End mom doused in something stinky walks by and gives a smoker a bad look. People wearing perfume or cologne make me want to go buy a pack of cigarettes to light up near them so they know how it feels. Ugh.

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (21子コメント)

    who says horrible BO doesnt? wheres the studies on that?

    [–]whatsupvt 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    So just because there aren't studies on other things being harmful, we can't ban one that is known to be?

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    you want to ban everything thats harmful? smokings not illegal. smokers have a right to smoke outside. its outside. if you dont like being around someone whos smoking then walk around them. walking on city streets with car exhaust is more harmful than second and smoke from a few people on church street is. quit your bitching.

    [–]whatsupvt 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I don't see what the harm is in banning smoking on church street, an extremely populated area. How do you expect people to walk around smoke that is directly outside of a shop? They don't have a choice for whether or not to breathe that in. Yes, traffic pollution is harmful, but again, does that mean that we have to add more shit to our air?

    [–]0verfluffed 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yeah, you gotta watch out for that rogue smoke that only lingers around entrances of shops and outside restaurants.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's not that it's only in those areas, but that those areas are where people are most affected and where it's most annoying. Anybody who has shopped or eaten on church street more than a couple times has experienced having to smell cigarette smoke when they didn't want to.

    [–]Picardtrick 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    walking on city streets with car exhaust is more harmful than second and smoke from a few people on church street is.

    Citation needed, please.

    In reality, the CO concentration and particulate matter in the emissions from a reasonably well-maintained vehicle are far below the CO concentration and particulate matter from a cigarette (Jaffe & Chavasse 1999, Invernezzi et al 2004). Sorry.

    Jaffe D & Laurie Chavasse. Comparing the CO content of cigarette smoke and auto exhaust using gas chromatography. J.College Sci. Teaching: 172-176, Dec. 1999.

    Invernizzi G, Ruprecht A, Mazza R, Rossetti E, Sasco A, Nardini S, Boffi R. Particulate matter from tobacco versus diesel car exhaust: an educational perspective. Tob Control. 2004 Sep;13(3):219-21.

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    maybe one reasonable maintained vehicle. but not the hundreds youre likely to pass on a stroll down a typical city street. i recall a paper published not that long ago that said walking downtown in nyc for a handful of blocks or something is equal to smoking a pack of cigarettes. ill look it up in a bit im out for a smoke.

    [–]bluepied 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    dude your argument is soooo weak... Picardtrick referenced actual studies using real data and you make up some half-baked stat using a city that has roughly 8 million people vs 43,000 in Burlington! Must still be out for that smoke huh?

    [–]Rickyjesus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You sound like Fox News anchor spouting out meaningless studies showing correlation between teen pregnancy and the decline of prayer in school. Slapping citations on a reddit post does nothing to advance this discussion, the point is to shock people into submission with a few things they found on Google scholar. If you'd like to prepare a meta analysis on the subject that considers more than just google results that agree with what you think I'll happily read it, though maybe link to it as it would be to long to post. Don't give this person undue credit just because they employed google.

    [–]I_FUCK_PRINGLES 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Way to grasp for those last few straws in your shitty argument. One smells bad, the other gives you cancer. One is natural hormones coming from the body, and the other is hundreds of different chemicals and smoke.

    [–]Rickyjesus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Hasn't this sub heard enough of this anti smoking bullshit? No one is arguing that smoking isn't harmful. There are a lot of smells and people in Burlington that I don't like, but only anti smoking advocates ever talk about how wronged they are by what some people are doing. It's the same ignorant mind set behind book burning and vigilante border patrols.
    Anti smoking education and quit lines are public health initiatives, outdoor smoking bans are just a minority of loudmouth moralists demanding that someone pay attention to them.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Trying to enjoy a sit down dinner on church street without having somebody standing next to you smoking doesn't make you a loud mouth moralist.

    It's less about morals and more about not having smoke in crowded areas and places where many people are eating.

    It's why smoking in bars is banned.

    If you want to smoke, walk 20 feet off church street and smoke. Don't be selfish and impose your smoke on everybody else.

    [–]OrganicDanceMachine 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you're that particular about the environment you wish to enjoy your meal in, then eat inside.

    Are you going to request a ban on mosquitos because they bother you when you eat outside? To be honest, when I'm eating outside and there's a poorly behaved child screaming and wailing next to me, I find it disrupts my meal. Know what I do? I deal with it, rather then suggesting that the parent kindly take their child elsewhere so I can enjoy my dining experience to the fullest.

    It sounds like your issue isn't health, but rather personal comfort

    [–]Rickyjesus -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I'm tired of you u/Adrenaline_. You're completely incapable of having a rational discussion on this issue, all you seem to do is call people selfish. If you want me to just fire insults at you I'd be happy to, but all it will lead to is the end of dialogue in this thread.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You're the one calling people "loudmouth moralists," but I can't say "don't be selfish?" Think about that hypocrisy, Ricky. You don't practice what you preach.

    Sounds like you're really mad, buddy. I didn't hear a single argument in retort from you there. Just a big temper tantrum.

    If you are capable, and want to discuss the issue maturely, let me know.

    Edit:

    More insults by you. Practice what you preach, Ricky.

    Here's a link to the last time we discussed this

    [–]Rickyjesus -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    So that's a yes? You are a busybody. You lack the capacity to myob. Your brain says "look at that person smoking... I don't like smoking and I'm a good person....that must be a bad person... I better summon the police." I know I won't convince you of anything you're aren't really interested in anything other than being a douche, so have at me fiend.

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ^

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    horrible BO can some from anything. bacteria, mold, disease.... and i wasnt making an argument i was making a point.

    [–]Adrenaline_ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's a giant stretch. That's not BO anymore when you start talking about diseases and mold. Be real.

    [–]iron_flutterbyscience & trees 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Pot's OK. It's the tobacco that bothers me.

    [–]0verfluffed 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I used to be a smoker and am against this ban. IMO the people calling for the ban are throwing a bigger hissy fit than the smokers actually cause.

    Whenever I see someone smoking outside I...

    • take note of wind direction
    • walk around the smoker in a way that the wind blows the smoke away. It's Burlington, people, there's always a breeze.
    • If all else fails, I hold my breath.

    Honestly when I hear someone complain and bitchfest about smoking I just want to slap them and say "walk around them, you're outside!" I may think smoking is useless (except for when I'm drunk), but I'm not getting my panties in a tangle because someone is slowly killing themselves.

    [–]formerteenager -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    So let me get this straight...you...a smoker...are okay with people smoking...and don't understand why someone who is a non-smoker would be annoyed with smoke blowing in their face? That's super duper surprising.

    [–]0verfluffed -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Are you aware of how smoke functions? Because if you don't like smoke "blowing in your face", it is easy enough to go around. One little breath of second hand smoke isn't doing anymore damage to your body than yakking away on a cellphone eating processed foods does.

    And let's face it, what this ban will do is consolidate all the smokers around the ends of Church street, thus causing an unavoidable line of smokers at every corner.

    [–]pweeni'm back baby 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    haha yea imagine that, all the smokers chilling at the very corner of church street and the crossing roads. people are going to be walking through massive clouds of the smoke when they only had to deal with occasional whisps here and there.

    [–]formerteenager -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The burden shouldn't be on the non-smoker to have to go out of their way to avoid second hand smoke. I see your point about the ends of Church Street, and it's s good one so I don't know what to say about that.

    [–]dropkickninjaಠ_ಠ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    they said former smoker.

    [–]formerteenager -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He said he smokes when he's drunk. I know a lot of people who say that...they aren't former smokers, they are smokers.

    [–]ninjaplease26 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If a sign that says bacon ahead can bother someone, smoking most certainly will. Leave it to the assholes to destroy anything fun.

    [–]xcalibure 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Doesn't bother me in the least.

    I certainly don't think it's so bad that we should have armed individuals threatening people with fines or arrest.

    I think threatening people is much worse than smoking outside in public.

    [–]pweeni'm back baby 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    i bet they hire the yellow shirts to enforce it. in which case, "ooh sorry didnt know i couldnt do that!" and hurry away into the crowd before they pull out their little ticket pad.

    [–]Rickyjesus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Mouthing off to yellow shirts is the official teenage pastime in Burlington. Fond memories.

    [–]xcalibure 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Or just walk away anyways. They don't have detention powers, and can't require you to ID so I would tell them to fuck off.