あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]AllInternalized 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (49子コメント)

Stop calling him a holocaust denier. That's Ghazi shit.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (43子コメント)

...but he IS a holocaust denier. There is a recording of it and everything. It's really hard to masturbate to Intnetnetaristocrat fucking his girlfriend on that stream when KoP is so busy slinging spaghetti.

[–]accountsaredumb 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (6子コメント)

What would it be called if someone thought the holocaust happened, however they thought the actual number of deaths in the concentration camps is unknown, with the figure in the millions of dead being war propaganda? War propaganda happens on all sides, history written by the victors, ect.

I can understand when people get upset with people trying to minimize the deaths in order to be anti-semetic, however it rather absurd to call someone a holocaust denier when they're simply questioning the official body count. They're not denying it happened, simply questioning the accuracy of the official records. Unless they're doing it to hide their obvious racism, I think it's bad for academia and society as a whole to shame people for questioning sensitive topics. It's akin to calling people misogynists if they question whether or not Mojo Jojo was harassed by GG'ers, or just random trolls.

[–]DrCoquenbols 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What would it be called if someone thought the holocaust happened, but it was perpetrated by the Jews as a false flag?

[–]accountsaredumb 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know what it would be called, but I know they would be called a retard.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I totally agree that it's important to have a near accurate number of holocaust deaths as possible. I just think that that's a job for people who know what the hell they're talking about I.e. Historians, statisticians, etc, not dumbasses like KoP.

[–]accountsaredumb [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Oh absolutely, wanna-be historians do more harm than good. I'm not a historian, so I tend to just trust people who are. I just think it's unhelpful to shame people by calling them "Holocaust Deniers" as though they are somehow pro-holocaust, simply for questioning the common belief. I think questions are good, blatant anti-semism is not, but the two shouldn't be conflated. It doesn't help that it's illegal in many countries to question the official story, just adds fuel to the fire for tin-foilers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Prosecutions_and_convictions

Laws against Holocaust denial have been enforced in most jurisdictions that have them. The accused are only allowed to plead insanity, or guilt. They are not allowed to simply say "I'm right,". Notable convictions and sentencings to November 2009 include:

"The accused are only allowed to plead insanity, or guilt. They are not allowed to simply say "I'm right,""

[–]autowikibot [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Section 23. Prosecutions and convictions of article Laws against Holocaust denial:


Laws against Holocaust denial have been enforced in most jurisdictions that have them. The accused are only allowed to plead insanity, or guilt. They are not allowed to simply say "I'm right,". Notable convictions and sentencings to November 2009 include:


Interesting: Freedom of thought | Holocaust denial | Gayssot Act | Hungarian Civil Liberties Union

Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words

[–]IrrelevantNexus15k get 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The term "Holocost Denial" is SJW logic in a nutshell, as it is literally redefining the word of denial to prevent any sort of discussion whatsoever.

Its a shitty term that is used to silence discussion in which there is legitimate concern to keeping accurate numbers due to the multiple conflicting official reports, and the general ignoring of the effect of propaganda inflating totals.

Believe that there may have been Typhoid deaths thrown into the gas chamber death count? Too bad, you are now labeled as someone who does not believe the Holocaust happens at all.

I was to the Holocost memorial museum in DC, and while it is a beautifully done memorial, they do not say a SINGLE WORD about Typhoid, even though they displayed shaved hair and piles of disinfected shoes. I have been to a concentration camp in Italy that did not gas anyone, however suffered horrible sickness at the hands of Typhoid. That pile of shoes and shaved hair were attempted means to reduce typhoid. Sickness was similar at all the concentration camps, and yet it is largely ignored in an attempt to make people assume those deaths happened more directly by humans hand.

By the definition of Holocaust Denial, what i just said above, which I fully stand by, labels me as a Holocaust Denial. It's ludicrous, because deaths by sickness would still be at the fault of the Nazis that put the people in that position to suffer, even if it is not as socially evil.

It's offensive and a dis-service to history as well as the dead if the numbers are purposely off or falsely categorized. I do not have an opinion on if I think the number is off or not, but I recognize the possibility of it.

I do not agree with KoP's stance on the Holocaust, and there is rarely a legitimate reason to bring up opinions on the Holocost, but the slandering term "Holocost Denial" is just as much a SJW riddled weapon as "sexist" or "misogynist". It is used as outright censorship to hide potential falsification of information.

Edit: and no, I am not from /pol/

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Interesting, I didn't know about typhoid. Can the head shaving and the shoes thing have more than one purpose, though? I'm sure it was part of the process of dehumanizing these people as well as for cleanliness reasons, but I'm not a historian.

How low does ones estimate of holocaust deaths under the official tally have to be before it becomes denial?

[–]PotemK [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Shaving heads would have been pretty standard in a context where people lived in squalid conditions and extreme promiscuity, captors being ofc equally responsible for the resulting death toll. In France you would receive no support to inquire upon such a subject, and it's so ingrained in culture I felt compelled to add the disclaimer above.

[–]IrrelevantNexus15k get [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Can the head shaving and the shoes thing have more than one purpose, though? I'm sure it was part of the process of dehumanizing these people as well as for cleanliness reasons, but I'm not a historian.

To be clear, I am not a historian either, however I am interested in this type of thing. Typhoid is a terrible disease which is often a primary killer of refugee camps (currently an issue with refugees of Syria). When you pack all those people together into really shitty living conditions, Typhoid quickly becomes the primary concern.

There certainly was an aspect of dehumanizing to certain actions in concentration camps, such as the serial number tattoos. Not everything in concentration camps was dehumanizing though. The Nazis allowed and provided supplies for the schooling of children, sports, and other recreational activities of the inmates. Take that with a grain of salt however, as it could also be observed as a mere attempt to distract inmates from the death factory.

Zyklon B (the chemical used in the gassing) was manufactured and used in most if not all concentration camps for the disinfectant of clothing. Health conditions at the camps were absolutely horrible. The primary purpose for destroying clothes upon arrival at the camps and the shaving of hair was first and foremost for preventative health measures. Similar practices were done in the Soviet Gulags, which also held terrible health conditions. There may have been an additional benefit of dehumanization to it, however that was most likely just an after-thought.

About the shoes - At Auschwitz, the DC memorial, and at the camp I was to in Italy, the mass piling of shoes and hair was used as a strong emotional tool to give a visual relatable sense to the number of people whom died. Its a chilling experience to see a massive room filled with bland shoes, knowing that the people whom wore them died because of the Holocoust. The reason they had so many shoes was because they had to be rotated out (actually I'm not as clear on this part) to be disinfected with Zyklon B. Zyklon B is powerful stuff, so when it was used, many articles of clothing were disinfected at the same time. The camps had buildings specifically for this disinfecting process.

How low does ones estimate of holocaust deaths under the official tally have to be before it becomes denial?

What defines something as sexist? Its in the eyes of the beholder, but once someone says the word sexist, its everyones problem. In our lovely tone policing world, any discussion surrounding the representative statistics of the Holocost can be labeled as denial, regardless of how academic. This has been used to make it practically illegal to talk about the Holocost in a factual sense at all in several countries.

There certainly are people who distort logic in order to justify true denial of the holocaust. It is hard to find the intentions behind an opinion on the Holocost because it can quickly degrade to a shallow attempt to promote a conspiracy theory. This has caused it to become a serious issue in discussion even within academics. On the purely academic front, they like to use the term Holocaust Revisionism, to move away from the stigma of the term Holocaust Denial.

[–]UnmotivatedNEET [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

If you're actually interested, there is a lot of evidence out there that casts some pretty reasonable doubt over the official stories of the concentration camps. What I'd like to know is whether it's still considered denial if you shift the blame, as every year it's looking more and more likely that the majority of the death toll occurred at the hands of Stalin, who also had a hand in many of the stories that pin the deaths on Germany.

But this is in no way related to anything and KoP is a moron letting his hurt ego send his bias out of control. I have no doubt that if he got on television he'd try to bring up the SJW menace as bluntly as possible. Jim's parting spiel is still ringing in his ears.

[–]qwertygue 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (30子コメント)

He was disputing the number of people killed, not that it didn't happen. Not the same thing, not that I expect you to understand.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (29子コメント)

You understand that holocaust denial also includes people who deny the actual number of Jews killed in the holocaust, right?

[–]feroslav 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Your definiton goes against the meaning of word "denial".

If I say that 10 million jews have died, I'm holocaust denier according to you...

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (20子コメント)

It's not My definition of holocaust denial, it's THE definition of holocaust denial. If you'd like to dispute it I'm sure /pol/ would be very receptive to you.

[–]feroslav 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (19子コメント)

No, it's definition of something which is not denial. If you accept this bullshit, then you have to accept also that you are misogynist because you critisize some women. Same SJW logic, same retarded defintions, same bastardization of words.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Okay mr contrarian, I'm just going by the official definition of holocaust denial. That was formulated long before social justice warriors were a thing.

Would you feel more comfortable if I said that he denies the official death toll of the holocaust instead? Why would he ever bring this up ona gamergate stream in the first place? It's like he gets off on self-marginalization.

[–]feroslav 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Don't derail discussion. I don't deny it's fucking retarded to speak about it, and I personaly don't think there is more idiotic person in GG than KoP, but that is completely different problem.

"He denies the official death toll of the holocaust"

"He denies the holocaust"

Please read each sentence 10 times. If you think it means the same thing, then I will have to change my mind about most retarded person in GG.

If "official" definiton of something makes no sense, I won't follow such definiton just beacuse of argument by authority.

[–]UhOhSpaghettios1963 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Hol·o·caust de·ni·al, noun, the belief or assertion that the Holocaust did not happen or was greatly exaggerated.

Stop being a fucking retard. KoP is a textbook definition Holocaust denier.

[–]DrCoquenbols 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Denial

the action of declaring something to be untrue.

If you're saying the reported number of deaths is not accurate or is untrue, then you are a holocaust denier, as you feel the story is untrue, at least in some crucial aspect. Though I take your point there's a difference between saying "it didn't happen" and saying "the number of deaths seems to be inaccurate."

[–]feroslav [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Mental gymnastics.

Holocaust isn't defined by one concrete number. You defined "denial", that's good first step. Now define "holocaust". Hint; it doesn't mean a story where 6 milion jews dies. It can't, because no one knows precise number, no one ever will.

If it was like that, then saying that 6,5 million jews died would be holocaust denial, because you would be saying that crucial aspect of "the story" is untrue.

[–]DrCoquenbols [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I think you're the one doing a bit of mental gymnastics. I don't think it's a stretch to say that someone claiming the death count of the holocaust is way off is holocaust denial.

But to respond to your challenge, the holocaust is defined as: the mass murder of Jews under the German Nazi regime during the period 1941–45. More than 6 million European Jews, as well as members of other persecuted groups, such as gypsies and homosexuals, were murdered at concentration camps such as Auschwitz.

If you're denying that 6+million jews died in that event then that's is denying the definition of the holocaust. Ergo, you're a holocaust denier.

[–]16intheclip -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Stop discussing with Romney2008. He's been a proven shill for weeks now.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yep, only shills believe that someone who denies the holocaust is a holocaust denier.

Please see my submitted threads about ethics in game journalism.

[–]16intheclip -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're a PC shill who whiteknights more than he talks about the issues. If you think he's a holocaust denier on par with Zündel and co don't associate with him and let him do his shit. If you think he'll harm the common cause get out there and do more work yourself to counter his shit instead of slandering him.

[–]AyChihuahuaDog-biscuit-flavored bait 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are one of the few GGers I've seen that actually seems to care about ethics in journalism without getting persuaded by all the nonsense and drama spewing out of GG.

If that makes you a shill, then that reflects extrememly poorly on GamerGate as a whole.

[–]AllInternalized 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What's important is motive. It's absurd to group together people with an obvious agenda against the Jews and someone that questions an event that is so set in stone and in many cases illegal to question out of historical curiosity.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Speaking of absurd:

Why take a controversial stance on an incendiary topic in a public gamergate related stream when you are also a prominent figure in gamergate? Why was that stream the proper venue for this? What makes kingofpol qualified to voice an opinion on this? Is he a historian? What research has he taken to come to his conclusions? From memory, his evidence seemed to be that he visited auschwitz and said that the gas chambers weren't big enough to kill that many Jews.

Really just why?

[–]AllInternalized 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It wasn't a GamerGate related stream.

It's just something he is interested in. It probably wasn't the best place to talk about it but I'm not going to burn him at the stake for having an opinion and being a bit socially inept while drunk on the internet.

[–]Romney2008Undeveloped pre-frontal cortex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think it was labeled as gamergate related off-topic stream but my memory is hazy. At the very least it involved a lot of GG major players and was put up for the public to see.

And I totally agree, people are allowed to have opinions, even if they're dead wrong or even reprehensible. I just don't want someone with those opinions within 200 yards of a movement that I identify with.

[–]AllInternalized 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's fine, but it's not like if KingOfPol and anyone else with controversial opinions are kept away from GamerGate we'll suddenly get honest coverage. The media took it's stance. Results from GamerGate is what matters, not PR.

[–]IrrelevantNexus15k get 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was, but god was it stupid of them all to do. all those "lazy" streams were 100% representative of GG. The outside really love looking for our "leaders", and yet our "leaders" failed to realize that they do not get an "off the record" pass, especially in an open stream, on the same medium and means used as a podium for GG.

[–]sweden_yes_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So the Aushwitz memorial is anti-semetic?

https://i.imgur.com/xoWVozd.jpg

The reason that the number went down from 4 million to 1.5 million was that the original number was found to be Soviet propaganda.

We should be striving for historical accuracy.

That's not to say I defend KoP, I don't, but its pretty dishonest to claim that anyone who studies the Holocaust and comes up with a different number is anti-semetic/holocaust denier.

On the other hand, with the amount of propaganda about the Holocaust online, I think its pretty dishonest for the layperson to come up with their own numbers. We should be relagating that task to historians.

[–]Osego8 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

His name is King of Pol, of course he's a holocaust denier. It's not a secret.

[–]AllInternalized 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

He's a holocaust denier in the same way someone who criticizes Sarkeesian is a misogynist.