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EnoughLibertarianSpam

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Sick of all the conspiracy theories, racism, anti-Semitism and general douchebaggery of libertarians? You are not alone!
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[–]Newbunkle 27 points28 points29 points  (35 children)
Maybe it's because the ability to believe in their ideologies requires a blind spot when it comes to structural violence and the reality of life under capitalism.
[–]Ayncraps comment score below threshold-12 points-11 points-10 points  (34 children)
To be fair, that applies to liberals just as easily.
[–]moros1988Drinks government Kool-Aid 11 points12 points13 points  (7 children)
To be fair, that applies to liberals just as easily.
Shoehorning liberals into the conversation again? You're as bad as a libertarian.
[–]Ayncraps comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (6 children)
I'm not shoehorning shit, lol, liberals and liberal democracies suffer from structural violence pretty much universally.
[–]willfe42 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
I'm not shoehorning shit
You're probably right. Feels more like you're shoveling it.
[–]Ayncraps comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (2 children)
So uh point out the ways in which liberal democracies alleviate structural violence
[–]willfe42 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
Yup. Definitely shoveling shit. Combative, too. You should get that checked.
[–]Ayncraps -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
Can't answer because it's impossible. Liberalism perpetuates structural violence with a happy face. Congrats, you're like a libertarian-lite.
[–]luxemburgist 1 point2 points3 points  (1 child)
Well yeah, liberal democracies are still capitalist, and so still a system of structural violence.
Hence why socialists hate liberals and liberalism.
[–]Ayncraps -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Yep pretty much.
[–]jamescarl22[S] 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
DAE social liberals and progressives are just as bad as right libertarians!?
You know, the fact is that most center left people believe in some sort of social democracy or welfare capitalism, and instead of just knee jerk lumping them in with right libertarians, maybe you should find common ground and actually get something done, rather than just having a nice little socialist circlejerk.
[–]HildredCastaigne 3 points4 points5 points  (21 children)
That liberals have a blind spot in their ideology or that they have that specific blind spot? Also, just so we're on the same page, which liberals are you talking about?
[–]Ayncraps comment score below threshold-8 points-7 points-6 points  (15 children)
Liberals have pretty much the same conception of structural violence as libertarians do. Difference being, instead of letting people die, liberals just want to give the poor a meager and undignified existence through welfareism, instead of expropriating the MOP and letting workers decide their own fate. Liberal democracies are slightly less structurally violent than a libertarian paradise would be, but they still suffer from racism, patriarchy, ecocide, neo-liberal imperialism, etc.
I'm talking about your garden variety liberals.
[–]ThatDharmaBum 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
I'm pretty sure just described life in general and tried to put it under the umbrella of libertarian/liberal.
Most progressive folks I know feel that government although flawed does a better job at representing the people and protecting the people, than a private unregulated corporation ever would.
The welfare system is flawed but IMO it works exponentially better than relying on community donation and food banks to feed the poor. I'm glad the safety net is there in case me and my family of 5 ever need it. I had to rely on government assistance a few times in my life. Once when I was about 8 and my folks had just divorced my mother was making minimum wage at a Payless Shoes trying to feed me and my brother. We needed those food stamps.
Another time was after Hurricane Katrina and I had lost virtually everything. That FEMA trailer gave me a place to call home until I got back on my feet and my job was rebuilt.
[–]Ayncraps 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Sure, the welfare system is better than just letting people die in the streets, but we can do better. Poor people aren't lazy, poor people are often the hardest working people out there. The problem is capitalism and simply tossing a few hundred dollars a month to people who make minimum wage and have kids is a nice sentiment, but the reality is that, at the end of the day, we still live in an economic system that is oppressive and there are alternatives out there that would bring dignity to poor people instead of pity. Socialism would universally give people a reason to take pride in their work, and not just so they could eek out a meager existence, but to help themselves and help their community. Capitalism functions as a mechanism to tear that sense of community apart, violently. Government can try it's best to repair that connection, but it almost always falls short.
It's great that the safety net saved you and your family multiple times. Really, that's inspiring and awesome, but look beyond safety nets and think of a world that has a built-in safety net. Not a safety net that is constantly defunded and poorly run, but a safety net that helps people and gives them dignity.
[–]HildredCastaigne 4 points5 points6 points  (9 children)
Ok. "garden variety liberals" means something wildly different depending on where you are. "Liberal" can encompass everything from classical liberals, social liberals, economic liberals, Third Way, social democracy, neoliberalism, and probably like half a dozen other things. The liberals in China are different than the liberals in the UK and are different from the liberals in the United States (which is to say nothing of how liberals in each of those countries will differ on whether they consider other liberals to actually be liberal).
At minimum, we would need to know what country you're talking about and, preferably, it would be great if you could give an example of some "garden variety liberals" and what their ideologies are.
For that matter, would you kindly give some examples of ideologies that don't suffer from this blind spot? Perhaps you could also give some examples of states that have such an ideology. I would greatly appreciate it, if you could.
[–]Ayncraps -1 points0 points1 point  (8 children)
Your post is just a testament to the blind spot that liberals are getting accused of here. The thing you're missing is that, liberals, universally, still silently advocate for capitalism, think that welfareism is a dignified way to tackle poverty issues (that stem from their support of capitalism), plus the whole host of other ideas that go with their support of capitalism, such as patriarchy, ecocide, economic imperalism/colonialism, etc.
[–]LatchoDrom42 2 points3 points4 points  (4 children)
Liberals don't necessarily advocate for capitalism.
We realize that we live in a capitalist world. That capitalism stretches beyond borders. It's world wide yet our power to vote and take part in shaping law that governs a country is not.
Until there is some sort of global unification against Capitalism a country that strays away from it is far more likely to be condemned to irrelevence as no country is whole self sustainable. We need to begrudgingly create policy that allows us to work within a capitalist society while doing our best to protect the working class.
[–]Ayncraps -4 points-3 points-2 points  (3 children)
If liberals stop playing into the game and instead radicalized themselves, we could have that unification against capitalism much sooner rather than much later. Liberals prefer instead, to just get in the way. It's more comfortable (for them), fuck those in the cracks and margins of society.
[–]LatchoDrom42 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Radicalization of any ideology is dangerous.
[–]Ayncraps -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
Liberals prefer instead, to just get in the way. It's more comfortable (for them), fuck those in the cracks and margins of society.
[–]HildredCastaigne 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
You didn't actually answer anything. You just preemptively declared yourself the winner in a debate I didn't know we were having.
You didn't say what type of liberals you were talking about nor did you suggest any ideologies that avoid your stated blind spots. You just repeated yourself (welfareism, ecocide, patriarchy, imperialism) slightly more forcefully. I get that those are your problems with liberalism: what specific type(s) of liberalism and what would be better? If it's all liberalism, then why didn't you say that instead of talking about "garden variety liberals"?
[–]Ayncraps -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)
I have no interest in categorizing different compartments of liberalism. I'm aware liberalism is a huge and diverse umbrella that even the KKK would probably fit under. That's my problem. I don't care about the minor differences between 'liberals' in the US and 'liberals' in Australia or the UK. They still silently advocate capitalism and that's enough for me to write them off. Full stop.
[–]HildredCastaigne 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
and what would be better?
If it's all liberalism, then why didn't you say that instead of talking about "garden variety liberals"?
[–]W00ster 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
Liberals have pretty much the same conception of structural violence as libertarians do. Difference being, instead of letting people die, liberals just want to give the poor a meager and undignified existence through welfareism,
And now I know you are just dumb and have no knowledge about any systems nor countries nor the outcomes nor the quality of life people have but go on and let me know more of what you have no knowledge about!
Edit: Oh and I am not a liberal, I am a Social Democrat. There is not one huge pot to the left of you but many different ideologies. I know this must be difficult to grasp for an American with only two right wing political parties but try, will ya?
[–]Ayncraps -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Edit: Oh and I am not a liberal, I am a Social Democrat.
hahahahahaha
[–]brightbluerocket -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
liberals just want to give the poor a meager and undignified existence through welfareism, instead of expropriating the MOP and letting workers decide their own fate
wow
[–]xxtruthxx -5 points-4 points-3 points  (4 children)
The cognitive dissonance liberals experience is between two ideas: defending international human rights & defending beliefs of every culture.
Ex: Believing all women should be free to do as they wish and dismissing women being killed in Muslim countries for wanting to get an education as culture relativism.
[–]HildredCastaigne 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
I honestly can't say that I have found many liberals who are cheering for dismissing the deaths of Muslim women. The few that I have seen are in an extreme minority and are either irrelevant to mainstream parties or members of parties that would be lucky to be a historical footnote. Liberals that are isolationists (and, once again, that depends on what liberals we are talking about) tend to be so not out of cultural relativism but because they oppose gunboat diplomacy and wars to "spread democracy".
But, I can certainly see the argument that there isn't enough being done to help foster human rights. Would you kindly give some examples of ways to do so?
[–]xxtruthxx -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
I honestly can't say that I have found many liberals who are cheering for the deaths of Muslim women.
I did not say this in my comment. The notion I presented is that liberals fail to dismiss bad ideas from other cultures as cultural relativism even though some of these bad ideas violate human rights. Hence cognitive dissonance.
[–]HildredCastaigne 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Okay. Fair enough.
What about the rest of the things I wrote?
[–]burrowowl 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
defending beliefs of every culture.
That man is so straw he envies Dorothy's scarecrow friend.
Liberals don't believe in defending the beliefs of every culture.
I mean I am sure you can find some shitty blog post by a college sophomore that is the exception to this rule, but please let's skip that inevitable and stupid phase of this argument. Moving on...
Liberals believe that cultures outside of western europe protestants have value. Liberals don't think you need to "make the world England", as the old saying goes. Liberals think you can learn a thing or two from African or Mayan history.
Doesn't mean we don't want the Taliban eradicated.
[–]Darclite 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
You know there are socialist subreddits right? If your intention is only to derail every single thread here with some variation of "since liberals don't entirely reject all of capitalism they might as well be KKK members" you might have a better time over there.
[–]Ayncraps -2 points-1 points0 points  (0 children)
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of liberals who smear libertarians because they're blind to structural violence, who then go out and vote Democrat and campaign for liberal causes, all of which are perhaps only slightly less blind to structural violence than libertarians.
[–]Ayncraps -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
Also, liberals love to invade the socialist subreddits proclaiming that voting Democrat and supporting Obama is somehow 'socialist'. This subreddit isn't a liberal hang-out, it's a hang-out to make fun of libertarians. What happens when the residents of the hang-out have views that are barely different than those they're making fun of? Guess it's my job to point out that hypocrisy.
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