(cache) SadCrittersがFemale game critic gets rape message from boys, reports them to their mommysについて記入したコメント

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Female game critic gets rape message from boys, reports them to their mommys (mashable.com)

rannie_pophe が 12 時間前投稿

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[–]SadCritters 278 ポイント279 ポイント280 ポイント 9 時間前* (120子コメント)

I think there's a really important quote from her in this article that sheds a bit of light on this entire "I'm a woman getting rape threats constantly" thing that's been going on for months now and is used by a certain sect of people that corresponds to the "internet shield":

“A while ago, I realised that a lot of the people who send disgusting or overly sexual comments to me over the internet aren’t adult males,” Pearce told The Guardian. "It turns out that mostly they’re young boys and the problem is they don’t know any better, so responding to them rationally didn’t resolve the situation. And it got to the point where their comments were starting to make me feel really uncomfortable.”

I want to put extreme emphasis on this part even though I know it will be overlooked by sensationalists.

A while ago, I realised that a lot of the people who send disgusting or overly sexual comments to me over the internet aren’t adult males,

I think it's pretty interesting that she made a point to state this; when she could have easily done the same thing that every other female critic has done thus far: Lump all males into a stereotype and denounce the term "gamer".

Kudos to her. She handled this well and was intelligent enough to find the correct way to word her frustrations instead of "all [insert way to describe a person here] are [insert negative attribute about sect of people]"...(You know...The exact same thing that a lot of female critics are saying males need to stop doing....but they apparently don't seem to mind themselves doing it?)---Unlike a lot of her peers. So honestly, she has my praise. She realized where the threats were coming from and did well to deal with them.

EDIT: Apparently someone believes I am stating ""all women think men are rapists". I'm not. I'm talking about a very small group of people that have chosen to be very outspoken on this social matter and have taken towards the same narrative. There's obviously a distinction being made between people, as I'm recognizing that Alanah Pearce is in a minority group---As I stated already by talking about how refreshing it was that she saw a distinction between the types of males sending these kinds of messages. I apologize if it appears as there's no distinction---But there is. Not every female is a critic. We're only talking about critics here. That's why I chose the wording I chose:

every other female critic

I'd like to stress this subsection of people:

critic

It's a pretty important distinction along the same lines of separating adult males from younger males. I was under the assumption that would be understood since that's what we're talking about...Making distinctions between the entire gender bracket and a subsection of it, but /u/ChiefGrayPaw has brought to my attention via angry-words that it's not and I'm apparently some kind of bigot for using the majority argument presented by said social commentary-makers....even though /u/ChiefGrayPaw goes on to make the exact same argument I presented via the same majority/minority subset of female critics.

[–]ChiefGraypaw 448 ポイント449 ポイント450 ポイント 7 時間前 (43子コメント)

[+]BananaHands007 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント 4 時間前* (9子コメント)

Alright, let's break this down Vulcan style.

Picture the population of male gamers vs female critics. There are millions upon millions of males who play video games, and there's probably a few hundred outspoken female critics. To be clear, I'm talking about female critics who have a voice in the media. Now that we've got that established, let's look at your claim. You're saying that SadCritters is "literally lumping every female game critic into a stereotype." Maybe he misspoke in his first post, but he has gone on to clarify that he doesn't mean all female critics, just a majority. As you can see, he has already pinpointed the group he wants to talk about. There is no "lumping" going on.

By comparison, some female critics have repeatedly made statements about male gamers as a whole. Yes, the MILLIONS of male gamers. These female critics have claimed that "gamers are dead." They paint a picture of the male gamer as a woman hating white boy living in a basement. They have literally said things like this, it's all there on the Internet. They are lumping in every single male gamer into a stereotype.

So we already have a clear distinction here. SadCritters is talking about a certain group of female critics, and female critics are talking about the entire male gaming population. Which seems more likely to be false? The sweeping generalizations about a group of female critics, or the sweeping generalizations about tens of millions of men?

Moving on. I don't wanna say anything that might be taboo, but it's obvious what SadCritters is getting at. In the past few months many female AND male critics have attacked the gamer identity and made all sorts of stereotypical claims. They are reacting to harassment from individuals on the internet, but instead of blaming those individuals they are blaming every single man who plays video games. Alanah Pierce has taken a different approach, calling out her attackers one by one instead of smearing an entire population.

Which strategy seems more effective and/or rational?

[–]Bananasauru5rex 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 2 時間前 (7子コメント)

hey are blaming every single man who plays video games

Are we supposed to take this seriously?

I'm sorry, I'm going to be very short with you, but I find this tedious.

First, even though this guy you're defending said, "every other female critic," I mean, his words are saying literally 100% of female critics, you excuse this very sketchy thing to say as an accident. However, in the case of women critics (and I'd like to see some evidence for these dubious claims), you're over-exaggerating and stretching their actual words. They aren't claiming anything about "every single man who plays games." How do you expect that to have jobs if they said anything even remotely like that?

As for "gamers are dead" and whatever strange way you've interpreted it: I will provide an analysis. "Gamers are dead" is referring to the evacuation of a certain kind of exclusionary cultural identity. That is, "gamers" for a long time (even now) argue that their (Western) games don't need women or non-white characters because "gamers" themselves aren't women or non-white people, and so the industry needs only to cater to this specific demographic. To say "gamers are dead" is to say that the industry as a whole (and this is true in various degrees) recognizes that the demographic and voice of people who play games is so utterly changed from the exclusionary and insular old community that the term "gamer" hardly seems to apply (and an argument that the ugly policing of the "gamer" identity probably puts it beyond salvageable at this point).

Anyways, what do you think is more likely, that this SadCritters guy said what he meant (with, you know, the physical evidence of his statement right up there), or that the majority of female critics actually mean all these things which they've never said (which are so inflammatory and ridiculous that they probably would no longer be critics if they'd have said them)? And if they've said them, feel free to back it up.

[–]BiohazardBlaze 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間前 (6子コメント)

The fact that the "Gamers are dead" articles require this kind of lengthy explanation of the authors esoteric logic is direct evidence of how terribly written and stupid they are. The word "Gamer" is just far too broad a term. It can be applied to tens, if not hundreds, of millions of people. The fact that you and others can't see how its use doesn't have the extreme potential to offend many many people and become incredibly inflammatory is super alarming.

(which are so inflammatory and ridiculous that they probably would no longer be critics if they'd have said them)? And if they've said them, feel free to back it up.

Here you go: https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585

Also look at one of The Guardian's tdaily columists, Jessica Valenti: https://twitter.com/jessicavalenti/status/494591618519805953

[–]TempAccFuckReddit101 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]Bananasauru5rex -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 52 分前 (3子コメント)

"There’s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."

This isn't saying anything about the attitudes or behaviour of "all men." This statement references the dynamic of the cultural codes "men" and "women." I don't think the people upset at "all men are blank" are worried beyond attitude and behaviour.

"I took a special picture for all the misogynist whiners in my feed today."

She isn't talking about "all men," but the subset of men who are mysoginists. She isn't calling all men mysoginists.

Look, I'm not saying these may not be inflammatory in their own way, or you aren't free to disagree with them to whatever degree you like. However, these are emphatically not examples of critics who are women making an "all men are blank" statement. I personally believe that mysoginists and bigots exist on the internet, and I don't think that criticizing a mysoginist is the same as criticizing a man, and I haven't seen any critics who are women that operate under that logic.

The fact that the "Gamers are dead" articles require this kind of lengthy explanation of the authors esoteric logic is direct evidence of how terribly written and stupid they are.

Well, the thing is it took me about two seconds to understand all of that "esoteric logic." I don't think a good rebuttal against a position is that "it's too hard to understand." I don't think any alternative interpretations of "gamers are dead" are more likely, charitable, or fitting than the one I provided.

[–]Solumindra 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 21 分前 (1子コメント)

[–]Bananasauru5rex 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 16 分前 (0子コメント)

[–]BiohazardBlaze 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 10 分前 (0子コメント)

Well, the thing is it took me about two seconds to understand all of that "esoteric logic."

What you're saying is: "I don't understand why people who are not me and don't have my perspective don't view things from my perspective."

I don't think a good rebuttal against a position is that "it's too hard to understand."

Effectiveness in communicating ones critique is essential and more than qualifies as a rebuttal. If the "Gamers are dead" articles were better written or more effective in the communication of their critique then the outrage of their content would be significantly smaller or nonexistent.

I don't think any alternative interpretations of "gamers are dead" are more likely, charitable, or fitting than the one I provided.

Totally irrelevant. You're still espousing the idea that because you think a certain way, that therefore others do too. What you think is irrelevant.

The facts show that people have been offended by the articles written, thus rendering your point completely moot. The size of the outrage about these articles is directly comparable to the failure of the author/s to make the point effectively.

You're trying to use some logic, again esoteric logic, to explain away criticism. It's not about what the authors final intent or meaning is, that's also not relevant. It's how they can be interpreted. It's ultimately the critics responsibility to ensure that the reader understands their critique.

[–]MacDagger187 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 54 分前 (0子コメント)

[–]is_greece_italy 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]ilikeeatingbrains 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 11 分前 (0子コメント)

[+]SadCritters スコアが基準値未満のコメント-37 ポイント-36 ポイント-35 ポイント 7 時間前* (22子コメント)

Stating what the majority of social female critics have said about the male gaming populace isn't exactly a "stereotype" while acknowledging that the female in this article has taken the opposite path is an example of people that aren't doing what the majority are. Acknowledging that other types of people exist =/= stereotyping...

I'd appreciate if you could find me some sources of female social commentary by these critics on this subject that's mainstream that isn't slanted towards the: "The term 'Gamer' is over with." logic people are trying to shove down people's throats, while the opposition sits there and screams at them besides this.

Unlike the complete comparison you are trying to make ( which it's not because they are arguments on different axis ), I am not saying "All females think men are [x]." where-as their comparison is "All males are [x]." There is a very specific subsection of females that I chose specifically---Female Critics on this matter. 'Just like I chose to say that younger males are probably to be likely to be doing these things. It'd be a bit more of a stereotype and less of a "social commentary" if I were to actually, you know, make a stereotype without acknowledging that people like Alanah Pearce are a minority....It's pretty hard to stereotype when you're stating that other types of female critics clearly exist because of the narrative she's using instead...But I mean...

I'll wait and gladly make an edit and apology to reflect my clearly hypocrite ways. 'Do educate me, as I'm always supportive of growing as an individual.

[–]ChiefGraypaw 51 ポイント52 ポイント53 ポイント 7 時間前 (19子コメント)

[+]SadCritters スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 7 時間前* (18子コメント)

So it's appropriate to do it to females because a lot of them are doing something? But it's not appropriate to do it to males when a lot of them are doing something? You really don't see the ignorance in this? Sure a lot of these "SJW feminists" are complaining about nothing, but some of them have a legitimate claim against people like you.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that/imply that. You sure are making some wild assumptions here.

...The argument you are making would be comparable if I were to lump all females together...You know...Like a stereotype about the female gender would require me to do...?

I am clearly not doing that...And I think that's where you're having a rough time.

There are two distinctive arguments being made by me. Young males are likely a very strong reason these threats happen. Not every male. The argument being presented by a lot of the female critics is "all males".

The argument/statement I made is that the female critics on the other side aren't making any distinction between the males. There is a distinction being made here for females, because not every female is a critic on this matter--Just like not every male is a critic on the matter or not every male is young or adult respectively.

Many people just go about their lives ignoring this stuff and not worrying about our little video game world.

It's frightening that you see no distinction between critics and everyone else. Not everyone is a "journalist"/"Critic"/"Social Commentary Creator"/Feminist/MRA/Whatever you want to call them.

[–]UnderscoreAsterix 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 7 時間前 (10子コメント)

[+]SadCritters スコアが基準値未満のコメント-16 ポイント-15 ポイント-14 ポイント 6 時間前* (9子コメント)

[–]throwawayhaydayy -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 4 時間前 (7子コメント)

[–]SadCritters -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 3 時間前 (6子コメント)

[–]throwawayhaydayy -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 3 時間前 (5子コメント)

このスレッドの続きを見る

[–]ChiefGraypaw 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 7 時間前 (5子コメント)

[+]SadCritters スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント 7 時間前* (3子コメント)

The point I'm trying to make is that I seriously doubt every female critic, like you very clearly said, is lumping every male into the group. There are most definitely level headed female game critics out there. I'm sure they're a big minority, but they exist.

Please point me to them then. I said I'd like to be educated. Find me mainstream social commentary

I'm sure they're a big minority, but they exist.

...Which is why we are discussing how refreshing she is in her take on the subject...Do you understand the majority/minority thing here?

If I already stated she is part of a minority for taking a "different" stance on the subject...That serves to leave that there are other people in a majority....You, yourself, just lumped people together in a majority/minority mix like the post you're trying to reply to, that I made, did....

You're confirming exactly what I just said by stating there's a majority of female social commentary on this subject that is lumping all males together and a minority, like this woman, that realizes there's a possible distinction somewhere to be made...You're saying the exact same thing I just did...You just did the very thing you tried to accuse me of...'Which is kinda' adorable.

And it's frightening that you're ignorant enough to believe they don't.

If I felt this way I wouldn't be celebrating someone that is going against the majority....Now you're just being dramatic. I clearly am not ignorant about the subject--Because I wouldn't even consider what she is saying if I was ignorant and "blind".

[–]lemonadegame 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 3 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]ctrl_alt_karma 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間前 (0子コメント)

Why should the onus to educate you fall to anyone but you yourself?

Do you realize how nonsensical the claim that ANYONE is saying 'all men' are hidden internet rapists sounds? No critic, and no woman, is saying that. Please drop this ridiculous straw man you've concocted. You may not realize how prevalent abuse of women is, in society and specifically on the internet. Again, that's on you to learn.

I also disagree with the idea of hiding behind the 'young male' shield. Even if, though this is not the case, the vast majority of attacks against the women who are speaking out happened to be perpetrated by 'young males' it still would not change the discourse. Where are these 'young males' getting these ideas? Is it their nature to utter death and rape threats? Why? It's not a natural part of growing up, I never said that shit to anyone when I was a 'young male'.

We, the 'adult males' have the responsibility of making sure EVERYONE is welcome in gaming, that everyone has their voice heard, and that we root out fuckers who do things like this. It is (Y)OUR RESPONSIBILITY. All this time you're spending arguing that it's those darn YOUNG MALES, you're missing the point.

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This just has to be it. I was a little fucker who did and said awful things not too long ago in my past, but I never used rape as a threat.. most I ever did was use it to describe to my friends how horribly I was beating them at Halo or Tekken. The culture of the internet has always had a strong representation of anonymity which is at its core a good thing, but what we ended up with is a lot of really horrible people using that as a shield to get away with doing/saying things that there is no way anyone would ever do/say to someone face to face. As time moved on this became more the norm than a subsect and has overtime bled into the mainstream where now we have 9 year old kids telling me about how they fucked my mom and such without fear of repercussion despite me having information to report them with. This above all else is the one thing I would like to see stamped out before it goes further. It is a dangerous line to be on and I sincerely hope we do not go much further across than we already have as a society.

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They of course have a role as interpreter, authority figure and general 'control valve' of the deluge of stimuli but truth is that TV, internet and the general 'culture' they encounter on a day to day basis is far more responsible. What is more oft repeated and thus echoed in the social interactions of a kid day to day? Some dusty old lesson his dad gave him or dat meme?

This is why 'rape culture' is a term that has a lot of merit. Granted, it has a sort of reactionary and simple minded sense to it. A seeming lack of nuance I guess. Regardless of the nomenclature, I think there's some truth to the idea that it's worth pointing at the intersection of social attitudes, pressures, memes, circulating language and images that foster the prototypical sensibilities that end up informing scumbaggery like rape denial, justification and even the act itself as shaped by flippancy towards basic social boundaries.

Too bad you have the loudest voices on the internet doing nothing to make a case for themselves. Inarticulate femi-tweens and the opacity of the intellectually motivated providing the straw-men fodder for proto-misogynists to lament over, the latter doing nothing to avail themselves of their very conformation to the very terms they protest against and the former simply adding nails to the coffin of their nebulous movement.

TLDR: It's as much bad parenting as it is bad society/culture. Rad fems and reactionary red pill types are only making things worse.

[–]Kiltmanenator 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 36 分前 (0子コメント)

[–]Bananasauru5rex 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2 時間前 (1子コメント)

I think it's pretty interesting that she made a point to state this; when she could have easily done the same thing that every other female critic has done thus far: Lump all males into a stereotype and denounce the term "gamer"

Let me comment not on the incredible amount of careful research you would have to do in order to figure out what "every other female critic has done thus far" (you're talking about 100% of women game critics since the beginning of game criticism- I'll let you decide which kind of "logical argument" that is).

Let me only comment on the fact that the majority of death/rape threats that women journalists bring up are anonymous. Therefore, there is no "tracing their facebook" or "finding their mother."

Most importantly, there's no way to find out their age. You're asserting that "every other female critic" is part of some large conspiracy where they're actively covering up the truth about rape and death threats, as if they know they're all coming from kids and pretending they're coming from adults. I don't think you need me to explain that they haven't commented on the age of the harassers because they, simply put, don't know the age of the harassers. I also don't think you need me to explain that when she says most are young teenagers, many are still older teens and 20-30+ year olds (and so we have to be careful of lumping the harassers all together as "kids" at our own risk).

Finally, I would challenge your shallow distinction and ask you to provide evidence of a critic who is a woman who actually says "all men are blank" or even "all gamers are blank." Apparently, you should be able to find hundreds of instances. This is the epitome of a straw defense, and really is an example of deep hypocrisy: you're upset that "all women say all men are bad! But not all men are bad!"

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[–]srsiswonderful -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 2 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]MewKazami -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 2 時間前 (0子コメント)

[+]Okichah スコアが基準値未満のコメント-39 ポイント-38 ポイント-37 ポイント 8 時間前 (10子コメント)

[–]partanimal 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 7 時間前 (2子コメント)

[–]Okichah -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 7 時間前 (1子コメント)

[–]P_V_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]Evan_dood 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 8 時間前 (1子コメント)

[–]TierceI 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 6 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]a_supertramp 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 7 時間前 (2子コメント)

[–]Okichah 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 7 時間前 (1子コメント)

[–]a_supertramp 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 5 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]acidmademecrazy -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 7 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]Ragnalypse -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 5 時間前 (0子コメント)

[+][削除されました] 8 時間前 (8子コメント)

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[–]SadCritters 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 8 時間前 (7子コメント)

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[+][削除されました] 8 時間前 (6子コメント)

[deleted]

[–]SadCritters 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 時間前 (4子コメント)

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[+][削除されました] 8 時間前 (3子コメント)

[deleted]

[–]fwipsy 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 8 時間前 (0子コメント)

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[–]SadCritters 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間前* (1子コメント)

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[–]OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 8 時間前 (0子コメント)

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[+]Intortoise スコアが基準値未満のコメント-40 ポイント-39 ポイント-38 ポイント 8 時間前 (4子コメント)

[–]Amazinglagann -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 時間前 (3子コメント)

[–]Intortoise -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 2 時間前 (2子コメント)

[–]Amazinglagann -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 2 時間前 (1子コメント)

[–]baardson -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 1 時間前 (0子コメント)

ユーザインターフェイス用言語	(*) 未完成翻訳ボランティアに立候補する

π Rendered by PID 18382 on app-137 at 2014-12-02 15:00:06.421406+00:00 running dcf8ce1 country code: JP.

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