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Is Finland a xenophobic and socially conformist society? (self.Finland)
TheSocialistWalrus が 1 日 前 投稿
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[–]TheSocialistWalrus[S] -47 ポイント-46 ポイント-45 ポイント 1 日 前 (35子コメント)
That's the only thing about the Scandinavian countries which has made me on the edge. It really does seem like racism is a serious problem over there and for someone like me, I just can't fathom even visiting a country which treat its non-white population like dirt.
[–]Jalmar 42 ポイント43 ポイント44 ポイント 1 日 前 (0子コメント)
Sounds to me like you had your mind set even before asking the question. You prolly just wanted to reinforce your own prejudice towards us Nordic people. Much like those backward Finns you are so afraid to encounter.
[–]tehzeroFIN 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 1 日 前* (0子コメント)
Tell me where you are from so I can tell you about your country.
Oh you're American? I'm not gonna say anything but this your comment is kinda ironic.
I just can't fathom even visiting a country which treat its non-white population like dirt.
[–]Biiviz 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1 日 前 (4子コメント)
Black people in the US are different from black people in Finland. The black population in the US has had many generations of integration, yet you still have problems (over-represented in crime statistics). Our black population comes directly from Africa, a broken and conflicted continent. It will take a long time to improve attitudes and often rightly so.
There are two sides to the story of xenophobia.
[–]irvman 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 23 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Well I will change your blacks for Mexicans for a moment. A big reason I avoid the latino community in Helsinki is because they create another Mexico like in many heavy latino communities in America. While proud of the heritage the modern latino has bad habits like dishonesty which in Finland is a big no no. An example is having played a season with a Mexican team in Helsinki. Forgery of names to bring in players to move up. I just saw on spl.fi their latest futsal game and one of the names they are using is a buddy of mine who has not been in the country since summer. I could not imagine working for a Mexican restaurant. They would hire me under the table with crappy hours and lower wage most likely. But to a Finn would not do that to. Mexicans with power positions are indeed biased. These trouble foreigners themselves choose when to adopt the Finnish customs and when to be their own nationality, very biased. As a foreigner I will always opt first to work with a Finn first but that requires hard work in adapting. I know people living here for over 20 years that just don't want to speak the language.
[+]TheSocialistWalrus[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-22 ポイント-21 ポイント-20 ポイント 1 日 前 (2子コメント)
There exists a difference. African Americans aren't marginalized verbally by most Americans. America's racism is more institutionalized, while Finland's is verbal. It doesn't sound like Finns are very welcoming of foreigners and that's a shame with a country that supposedly has one of the best education systems in the world. I'd expect more, but unfortunately, I can't say I'm not surprised as well.
[–]gerbaire 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 23 時間 前 (0子コメント)
In Finland, you can grow a thicker skin for the extremely rare occasion you actually do face racist slurs. In America, you would've just been better off not born a black dude, because you're pretty much fucked for life. To me, rare verbal racism from crazy people no one else agrees with is so much easier to suck up than constant judicial and institutional racism, but what do I know, right?
[–]J3NGA 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 日 前 (0子コメント)
It sounds like you're not from the south, because I mean, I went to high school and graduated with people who were proudly members of the KKK. It's definitely NOT just institutionalised.
[–]QpH 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 21 時間 前 (0子コメント)
/r/ShitAmericansSay
[–]LiJunFan 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 日 前 (0子コメント)
Well, I can only say I am anything but white, although I am not form any of the ethnicities that people mention here either (I'm mestizo: spanish+native american)
[–]jrohila 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1 日 前 (24子コメント)
Define treating like dirt. And define a country that makes things better than us in this matter.
I would say that while some people have pure racism against people of other color, which happens in every country and with every kind of people: yes, non-whites can also be racists. Many times people who come to here as immigrants, perceive racism where there isn't.
In Finland for example to get a job or go a head in your life, things such as having fluent Finnish, and no if you have an accent then your Finnish isn't fluent, and be it vocational, collage or university degree from preferably from Finland or other western country is a must. Not to mention to look and act as the rest of the people. I for example wouldn't ever hire a person that displays religious symbols or cultural artifacts in his or her clothing, including Christians.
[+]kuriosty スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12 ポイント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント 1 日 前 (23子コメント)
Your comment is hilarious because you go from blaming immigrants for perceiving racism, where supposedly there isn't any, to list things that are racist in part but that you perceive as not being.
[–]jrohila 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 日 前 (22子コメント)
So it is racists to...
[–]Darth_Tier 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 日 前 (16子コメント)
Non native Finnish speaking people will always have an accent, it's just ridiculous to think that would change. I studied Finnish 6 hours a day, five days a week for almost 2 years and even though I know the language well I'll probably never speak like a Finn.
Most time Western degrees don't even mean anything in this country and we need to get Finnish education anyways.
So you only want white people in this country?
I am a bit biased against religious people as well but I believe more in freedom of religion and people can believe whatever they want to without being judged or not having equal privileges as the rest.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but what you believe wouldn't make any country a better place. I love this country and it's forward thinking and it makes me sad to know people like you live here.
[+]TheSocialistWalrus[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-17 ポイント-16 ポイント-15 ポイント 1 日 前 (15子コメント)
How can you REALLY say Finland is forward thinking when it appears to be such a racist place? I'm sorry to keep harping back on this, but dear god, it bothers me that Finland wants to make themselves out to be some great country, yet won't even bother treating minorities with respect. Sure, the USA has its racial issues, but the verbal hatred and prejudice that exists in Finland just seems out of this world. I've always known it existed but this thread has really opened my eyes. Fuck the benefits or the education system. They're useless to me if your society wants to stay stuck in the 1950s.
[–]tehzeroFIN 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 23 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Are you fucking trolling now? Like seriously?
when it appears to be such a racist place?
Do you base this on reddit comments?
yet won't even bother treating minorities with respect
We give them housing, free education, welfare and a change to live in a western country
Sure, the USA has its racial issues, but the verbal hatred and prejudice that exists in Finland just seems out of this world.
You are comparing "i was called a kebab" or in worst case beaten up by drunks in front of grill kiosk at night to KKK, white power groups (that actually do something other than having a swastika flag on a balcony) and Koreans shooting blacks from the roof of a grocery store.
this thread has really opened my eyes.
This is how i imagine your opened eyes
Fuck the benefits or the education system. They're useless to me if your society wants to stay stuck in the 1950s.
???
[–]Darth_Tier 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 日 前 (5子コメント)
In my opinion Finn's as a whole aren't that racist At least not as bad as what I saw growing up in Alabama. I've been here for 4 years and only had 1 drunk guy want to start shit with me. Everyone else loves that I'm here, though being a white american probably helps. I would say with absolute certainty Finland isn't stuck in the 50's. Have you ever been here to experience it first hand? Or are you just believing whatever you hear on the internet?
[–]kuriosty -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 1 日 前 (4子コメント)
being a white american probably helps
Dude, seriously?
[–]Darth_Tier 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 日 前 (3子コメント)
I blend in more than an African so I wouldn't be automaticlly targeted from a racist. I'm sorry I can't help who people have problems with.
[–]kuriosty 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 22 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Precisely, that's why as a white person you can't judge very well whether people in Finland are racists or not.
[–]kerubi -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 15 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I would say that we are not any more racist than any other European nation. But we are backwards in some other ways, namely the laws on same-sex marriages and the policy on mild drugs.
[+]Traubert スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント-4 ポイント 1 日 前 (6子コメント)
it bothers me that Finland wants to make themselves out to be some great country
It actually bothers me too. It's too bad you've been downvoted so much by indignant Finns in this thread. Finland is what it is, not great, not terrible. It's my home but I can easily understand how it's not for everyone.
[+]TheSocialistWalrus[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12 ポイント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント 1 日 前 (5子コメント)
Finland is a country that gets some things right but likes to covers up its big social issues. For that, I just don't even think the country is warrented of a visit. Maybe I'm being ignorant, or maybe I'm overreacting. I don't know.
[–]Traubert 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 日 前 (2子コメント)
It's really up to you. Both views are valid. I don't think you're ignorant, you just have a certain set of values. Your reaction is probably in line with them. My values are compatible with being a Finn, so yay for me.
[–]TheSocialistWalrus[S] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 1 日 前 (1子コメント)
I'm a man of egalitarianism and freedom. I'd be hard pressed not to find some people in Finland such as myself. Just wish more Finns could focus more on individuality instead of social conformity.
Nothing compares to first hand experience. Our girls are the most likely in the world to sleep with you on the 1st date :)
BTW are you sure you are not discriminating us now based on something you read/heard? Tsk-tsk :)
[–]kuriosty -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 1 日 前 (4子コメント)
So apparently you're not only racist but not very good at comprehensive reading. That might explain the racism in part; it's known that ignorance fuels racism.
But anyway, I said that the things you listed are racist in part. The first one (language requirements) is understandable. The others are not. In many fields having a degree from whichever university is no guarantee of competence. That's why there are assessment procedures, technical interviews, etc. It's even possible to validate your degree locally in some fields. So directly rejecting someone because their degree is not Finnish is an ignorant decision and xenophobe in part. Also not all non-western countries are Zimbabwe (being forgiving with your blatant generalization, anyway).
The other two things you list are the worst. You basically say that people need to fully embrace the local culture to be accepted. That you will judge them for their appearance (something that Finns have stopped doing long ago -- I've been served in the public health care by tattoed and pink-haired doctors). That they cannot dress or express their faith in whichever way they please, because in the predominant faith in Finland, it is not mandatory to carry any religious symbols. That you are not going to accept them unless they follow your norms and resign to theirs, even if their own cultural norms are in no way a detriment to their ability to do their work.
[–]jrohila 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 日 前 (3子コメント)
In many fields having a degree from whichever university is no guarantee of competence. That's why there are assessment procedures, technical interviews, etc. It's even possible to validate your degree locally in some fields. So directly rejecting someone because their degree is not Finnish is an ignorant decision and xenophobe in part. Also not all non-western countries are Zimbabwe (being forgiving with your blatant generalization, anyway).
Newsflash, the point of recruiting isn't to find the best possible candidate, it is to filter out as many candidates as possible as efficiently as possible. Yes, a degree is not the end of all, but it becomes really expensive if you are going to test out a larger number of candidates with technical interviews or aptitude tests. So if you have a large number of candidates, just sweeping away all degrees and schools that you don't know is one easy way to narrow down the list of candidates.
The other two things you list are the worst. You basically say that people need to fully embrace the local culture to be accepted. That you will judge them for their appearance (something that Finns have stopped doing long ago -- I've been served in the public health care by tattoed and pink-haired doctors).
You are always judged by your looks. If you are fat, ugly or have bad hygiene, you will get negative points from that. Of course sometimes people have something that isn't offered by anybody else, then you don't have any other choice. But in general, yes, how you does matter and it matters a lot. Do also note that you compare public sector to private sector.
That they cannot dress or express their faith in whichever way they please, because in the predominant faith in Finland, it is not mandatory to carry any religious symbols.
Like I said, you can dress however you want in private life, but when you come to work, then it is not just your business anymore. Religion is not mandatory part of life, it is persons own decision does he or she want to follow religion, if they do and they display it public, well... that there is a price to pay for doing so. Same thing with other cultural artifacts.
[–]mievaan 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 日 前 (1子コメント)
Are you really saying you make hiring decisions based on the applicant's beauty/ugliness?
[–]delicious_cheese 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 22 時間 前 (0子コメント)
There is a reason Finnish businesses prefer a photograph. Sometimes, looks are appropriate.
[–]kuriosty -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 1 日 前 (0子コメント)
Religion is not mandatory part of life
According to who? To your own value system, no? What gives you the right to assume that everyone else should agree with this?
Because at the end of the day, at the core of your argument is the belief that your own value system is somehow superior to that of others. Starting from this, arguing the rest of your points is meaningless.
[–]ikeatables 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 日 前 (0子コメント)
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