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Ferguson Decision Megathread.Breaking News (self.AskReddit)

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[–]Anti-DolphinLobby 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (184子コメント)

My thoughts/comments on the Ferguson situation:

Even if there were no racial component. Even without the rioting in the streets, the outrage, and the level of symbolism this case has reached. Even if this had happened with no hint of racial motivation, in a town with an amazing history of racial tolerance...

A cop shot and killed an unarmed teenager. And that is a tragedy. And that should not have happened. And things should be done to analyze how that happened to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I think it probably does have a racial componant. But I don't think you have to give two shits about race to see this case and mourn for a teenager who should not have been shot, or to be angry at a cop who shot an unarmed teenager. Those are valid, human feelings. If this situation doesn't upset you for this reason alone, you need to reassess your priorities.

Those are my thoughts on the Ferguson situation.

[–]ZaltorTheMerciless 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (2子コメント)

His being unarmed does not excuse him physically fighting the police officer.

Sure it's relevant that he wasn't out to murder someone, but you commit robbery, fight with a police officer up close and personal (hand on his gun), you are a criminal, and can't be all that surprised that you end up shot.

His being unarmed engenders no sympathy on my part. He wasn't running away, he wasn't a harmless teenager. Everything we have heard about this story ends up being either not true or portrayed with a certain slant. "unarmed" "boy"- this only serves to gin up ratings. It's a great story until the facts come out

[–]Generic_Lad 120 ポイント121 ポイント  (158子コメント)

Except Michael Brown wasn't innocent.

If we want to be outraged about police brutality, there's much more outrageous things such as the Cleveland cop who shot a 12 year old boy. Michael Brown was a thug and a thief.

[–]a_nerdy_redditor 119 ポイント120 ポイント  (57子コメント)

Cleveland reporting. That 'kid' modified a realistic looking BB gun and painted it to look like a handgun. Said kid was pointing it at people in public and the police were called. When the cop who responded told him to stick his hands in the air the kid reached for the extremely realistic looking gun. At that point he was shot, and unfortunately it was fatal.

Now, the Cleveland police have a really shit record with minorities lately, but in this particular case I can't blame the police at all. They werent answering a call about a kid with a BB gun. They were responding to a person brandishing a handgun in a park. And unfortunately this kid thought it was funny to threaten an officer the same way as he threatened people in the park. You can see the weapon in slide #5. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_shoot_6.html?hootPostID=90b6c711248a3686a345fee21f5a2620

Quite frankly, the kid is lucky someone else didn't shoot him before the cops got there. The whole thing is very sad for everyone involved, but it wouldn't have happened without some really fucking stupid behavior on the part of the kid.

[–]sargent610 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

As an airsoft enthusiast I find these incidents fucking enraging. I have modified airsoft pistols that look realistic. You know where I keep them when im not shooting it at the range of my local shop it's in a gun case. People treat them like fucking toys when they should be treated like the real thing. People who brandish these things in public are morons and the kids who are shot in the streets because of them have absolutely shit parents. These incidents just hurt people like me who choose airsoft as an alternative to an actual firearm.

[–]Devaney1984 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

When the cop who responded told him to stick his hands in the air the kid reached for the extremely realistic looking gun.

The cop who did the press hearing said the kid "was ordered to show his hands and drop the weapon and the young man...ahhh pulled the weapon out... and ahh that's when the [rookie] officer fired"...if it was in his waist band then how is he going to drop the weapon without taking it out of his waist band first? It's a fucking 12 year old with guns drawn on him, he likely panicked and was not trying to bluff the cops into retreating or something.

They werent answering a call about a kid with a BB gun. They were responding to a person brandishing a handgun in a park.

The 911 caller specifically said that they thought the gun was "probably fake." The caller probably came to that conclusion because it was a "kid" (yes most people consider a 12 year old a kid, even if he's black) on a swing set, in a playground screwing, around.

edit: video of the police's statement, even if the 911 operator didn't relay to the police that the caller thought it was a fake gun, which I kind of question, shouldn't the police be able to come to that same conclusion as the 911 caller?? Do they lack common sense or are really that afraid of being murdered by a 12 year old? Why didn't they stay at a safe distance and give the kid clear commands if they were so afraid of him?

[–]a_nerdy_redditor [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

Safe distance from a gun?

[–]Devaney1984 [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

Yeah, say 30 yards kneeling behind your reinforced cop car door and I'd say you're pretty damn safe from a 12 year old with a possibly real and possibly loaded handgun. Hell make it 70 yards and the kid would have to be fucking Annie Oakley.

[–]Piffles [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Since when is the average police cruiser's door reinforced?

That's news to me.

[–]JRutterbush [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Blame Hollywood. According to them every car door is reinforced six-inch thick steel.

[–]a_nerdy_redditor [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

That might work in a soybean field but this was in a neighborhood near a busy road. The officer has to keep the suspect in sight and talk to him. Stray bullets from a crazy person brandishing a gun (which is what this cop thought he was dealing with) will kill people and the goal is to minimize casualties. It also isn't the greatest neighborhood. It wouldn't be the most shocking thing ever to see a middle school aged kid with a gun. The remarkable and scary part would be waving it around and pointing it at people in the park. At that point it's a serious threat.

I'm not sure where you live, but I'm guessing things are different if you've got cop cars with reinforced doors and 70 yards of space to deal with potential criminals. This is Cleveland. We've had a couple problems with the economy in case you hadn't heard and we have the occasional crime, so we are a little more touchy about things like pointing gun-like objects at other people. Things are improving, thankfully, but we aren't at the point where we are going to stop and talk about feelings if it seems like someone is taking aim with a semi-auto.

[–]DrizztDoUrdenZ [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

If I were a cop I would shoot before I got shot. I got a life and I want to live it.

[–]TogeBara 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The boy was holding what looked to be a weapon. You don't screw around like that with cops. These people see so much shit and you think it's okay to do that crap? No. The cop must assume it is real even if the kid is 12. Gangs recruit that early, why should he assume, at the risk of his own life, that this kid has a fake gun?

[–]Anti-DolphinLobby 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (53子コメント)

I didn't say innocent. I said unarmed.

I don't know if he was innocent or not. That doesn't matter. What matters is that the police are trained to use lethal force only when lethal force in neccessary. When a suspect does not have a lethal weapon, it is not neccesary. This is police procedure. For more you can check wikipedia or look at this chart.

[–]solMachina 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So it could have been necessary?

[–]yourotherusername 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Did the officer know that the "unarmed" suspect was unarmed?

Did the officer fear for his life or for the lives of others? Was there a real possibility that lives were in danger?

[–]Coldproof [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Pretty sure all the autopsies showed that the suspect was about to be armed with the officers gun, since he had burn marks from it firing at close range.

I don't know the officers true perspective, but I have a feeling he was startled by the suspect's sudden attack; who the hell attempts to disarm a cop after committing a petty robbery?

I guess it sort of makes sense. The autopsies pretty much proved that countless "witnesses" were willing to lie for him, so if he managed to disarm the cop and kill him, he might have never been caught.

[–]swimming_upstream94 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is what I feel like is the most important component of the whole thing. People keep saying "but he was unarmed" but I don't know how you know that for certain until the attacker is down.

[–]TKardinal [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Consider the ramifications of a policy by which police can shoot people who MIGHT be armed.

[–]Twasnow [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

No, they can shoot people who pose a reasonable threat to their life given the information they have.

[–]Excitedpenguin [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

According to his own report the officer was loading him into his SUV and knew he was unarmed then an altercation happened and brown was shot in the hand then brow ran. For an unknown reason stopped and turned around and then allegedly went to charge and was shot 8 times including twice in the head. The shots occurred 35 feet from the police vehicle. Hard to argue he was a reasonable threat 35 feet away and unarmed.

[–]Generic_Lad 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Whenever you're attacked, its a fundamental right to defend yourself with whatever you have at your disposal if your life is in danger. You can kill someone with your bare hands, especially if you're large like Michael Brown.

Even then, what's to say he was unarmed? It was obvious Michael Brown was a threat, he wasn't some little kid, he had just robbed a convenience store! He could have just as easily had a stolen revolver in his waistband.

[–]Madmusk [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Wilson didn't know he robbed the store. I'm really surprised at how many people don't realize that. He was stopped for jaywalking.

[–]billegoat -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (13子コメント)

He could have just as easily had a stolen revolver in his waistband.

But he didn't.

[–]MOL3STACHE 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (11子コメント)

And how was the officer supposed to know this? Please tell me, I'm curious

[–]crafting-ur-end 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The officer hadn't even received the call on the robbery yet. At the time that he approached brown he didn't know he was dealing with a robber. I'm tired of people painting this picture when it wasn't a factor until later on. You're right he wasn't innocent but it seems like both sides are clinging to the smallest facts. We should've went into this case neutrally as a country. This is going to so NOTHING to help the racial divide.

[–]MOL3STACHE 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree. Race should never have been a consideration in the case. I get sick of everyone pulling the race card. I'm not saying the officer's decision wasn't made because of race, I'm just saying it's a separate issue.

[–]crafting-ur-end 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly! It's an entirely separate issue that everyone needs to sit down and have a freaking discussion about like adults. Tonight and the following weeks are going to be absolutely terrible if we can't find a way to have a sincere discussion.

[–]Mr_Pwnsauce [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

Except according to the prosecutor he was responding to the robbery, and he recognized Brown by his yellow socks, white shirt, and red hat.

[–]crafting-ur-end [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

So the officer realizes he's dealing with somebody who just robbed a store and could potentially be more dangerous than he anticipated and his only words to this person are get out of the street?

[–]crafting-ur-end [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Additionally, the police chief made it clear that Wilson was not responding to the robbery and was only attempting to stop the jaywalking.

[–]Mr_Pwnsauce [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I'm talking about what the prosecutor just said after the hearing, which I'm more inclined to believe.

[–]whisperingmoon -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Police training; eyeballs. You're not supposed to shoot first and ask questions later.

I could have a stolen revolver in my waistband. You could have a stolen revolver in your waistband. Your grandmother could have one in her purse. I saw some punk teens steal a few bags of chips from a 7/11; the police were called and you'd better believe they sat those kids down on the curb and cuffed them and scared the hell out of them.

But they didn't shoot them dead because there was no reason to presume that the perpetrator of a petty theft was armed and dangerous. This should always be the response.

[–]MOL3STACHE 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So those punk teens you mentioned assaulted an officer and charged another? Also, you don't need to have a revolver in your waistband to be a threat. He reached for a gun, what do you think he was planning on doing if he got it?

[–]whisperingmoon -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you have evidence he reached for a gun? Bear in mind that the grand jury attested to the fact that social media evidence is effectively false.

[–]TKardinal [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

You don't have to know he's not armed to not shoot. You have to know he IS armed in order TO shoot. Consider the implications of a policy by which police can shoot people who MIGHT be armed.

[–]zane496 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

That's ignorant as fuck. Wilson didn't ask to look under his shirt (why would he comply anyway?) and he didn't need to. If he's threatened he has a right to defend himself. Why should he not defend himself? The other option being having his ass beaten.

[–]colejosephhammers [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

But the cop had other ways to defend himself besides murdering the guy. A baton would have done the trick. So would calling for backup.

[–]thrasumachos [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Backup that would arrive in 10 minutes? If the story is true that Brown reached for Wilson's gun, he'd be dead in seconds.

[–]Wet_Pidgeon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When a suspect presents a threat of death or serious bodily harm an officer is allowed to shoot you. There is a lot of evidence that Mike Brown was attempting to wrestle the officer's weapon away from him inside of his vehicle. If that is the case Mike Brown was treated no different than anyone else.

[–]Good_Housekeeping 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

In every police encounter, there is always 1 gun present.

[–]Anti-DolphinLobby 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not sure whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me.

[–]Good_Housekeeping 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're not entirely wrong, but when a large 290+lb man, or anybody, is reaching for your gun, it quickly escalates to a deadly force situation because their intention when they grab your gun is to obviously to use it against you.

A lethal weapon is also not merely a knife or a gun or some conventional device we normally think of. Lethal force justification can come from someone being in a full mount position bashing your head in with his fists or being placed in a choke hold.

[–]ZaltorTheMerciless 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What if he's grabbing for your gun? Is he still unarmed and innocent? Unarmed bs. He was fighting the officer for his gun, stop with the slant.

[–]trex-eaterofcadrs 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is nonsense. An assailant doesn't need to be armed for deadly force to be reasonably applied. For instance, if person A is stomping on person B's head, it's reasonable to apply deadly force to stop person A.

[–]TheFapman -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry I forgot the part of the story where Michael Brown was stomping on anyone's head?

[–]trex-eaterofcadrs 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't be a snide asshole. Here's a direct quote of the person I was responding to:

What matters is that the police are trained to use lethal force only when lethal force in neccessary. When a suspect does not have a lethal weapon, it is not neccesary.

I simply presented an example situation where that quote just isn't true.

[–]dabbin [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

And the grand jury decided the shooting was 100% justified.

Why do you think your rhetoric will change facts? The people with ALL the information said it was justified. They were well aware of what force options the officer had to use, and what the proper escalation of force is. Hell, that's what they were deciding on.

They still said it was a good shoot.

Your wikipedia article pales in comparison to the facts made available to the jury.

[–]Viperbunny [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

There was gun residue on his hands from attempting to grab the officer's gun. Also, unarmed or not a 290 pound man can kill someone without a weapon. He charged the officer and the officer did what he was trained to do. What should he have done? Wait to be tackled? Run away and not do his job? He did what he was trained to do.

[–]Metalhead242 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (9子コメント)

He was 6 foot 4 inches and 292 pounds. His BODY was a lethal weapon. He could have easily killed the cop with his bare hands.

[–]Anti-DolphinLobby 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

If a professional boxer steals a purse from a woman off the street, are the police immediately licensed to kill him just because he's large and in good shape so his body is a lethal weapon?

[–]DJBunBun 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is he running towards them like he's gonna beat their asses? Then yes.

[–]CranialFlatulence [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

If said boxer threatens, charges, or attacks a policeman...then yes. I would imagine the police are cleared to use deadly force.

[–]Lentil-Soup [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Actually yes. If you are trained in martial arts, your body is legally a deadly weapon. Fucked up, right?

[–]shamrockjew 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

So I can draw and fire on anyone bigger and stronger than me?

[–]Fixshit [非表示スコア]  (2子コメント)

If they're attacking you, yes.

[–]dabbin [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

I love the simpletons on this forum (not you, the jew... god that sounds bad LOL)

[–]living_lightning [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I'm so smart and everyone that disagrees with me is a simpleton...

[–]lofi76 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

So is it ok to fatally shoot a large person running at a cop, but a smaller person not? No. The cop's JOB, the reason we employ these people, is to keep the peace. If he can't find a non lethal way to shut an unarmed teenager down, he is unqualified.

[–]CaptainGPro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

How about you start getting punched in the face by a 6 foot, 290 pound black man then you can see what type of force is necessary. I can give you a hint its not going to be non-lethal.

[–]Anti-DolphinLobby [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Or, as a different thought experiment, you could go get yourself tazered and then come explain how easy it was to continue attacking with 50,000 volts shooting through your body.

Because it sounds to me like you're saying there was absolutely no nonlethal action the police could have taken that would have been effective.

Shooting is a last resort, it should only be used when there's nothing else that would work.

[–]CaptainGPro [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Or as another thought you could try being alone with the same type of man i mentioned before charging you. Then you can pull out your tazer and pray to God that it doesnt fail. Because guesa what if that fails you are most likely going to die. Tazers can fail they are not infallable as you like to think. Tazers and other non-lethal means are used with lethal cover in the very case that it does fail. When you are alone and your tazer fails you do not get a second chance and you don't get a chance to pull your gun. If he's charging you and your tazer fails it's already to late.

[–]PmYourWittyAnecdote 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The officer at the time had reason to believe he was armed though, the revelation of him being unarmed came after the fact.

[–]tiedownsgud [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

How do you know exactly what happened in this case? Were you there? I don't understand the thinking behind people drawing definite conclusions when they aren't certain of what occurred. How do you justify "should not have happened?"

[–]MrTurkle [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

So the officer should have known it was a toy gun?

[–]Anti-DolphinLobby [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I was responding specifically to the part of the comment relating to Michael Brown, because that's what my original comment was about. I don't know enough about the other case to make any comments on any side.

[–]rendevouspoo [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

You see? This is exactly why people need to learn self defense. Unarmed does not fucking mean not dangerous or life threatening.

[–]KiraOsteo 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A kid who they thought was pulling a gun, and was pulling an airsoft gun that had been modified to look as real as possible.

If you're going to talk about being innocent, that child is on the same level as Michael Brown.

[–]Metalhead242 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn right. The media is actually using a picture from the fuckers graduation. Look up more recent photos, he doesn't look innocent at all, he looks intimidating and threatening and he's HUGE. Like you said he's a thug. Innocent kid, my ass.

[–]ozzyman700 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Cleveland kid had a bb gun with no red tip and a man called 911 saying he "might have a gun". The police got there with the predisposition of " this kid has a gun".

[–]lofi76 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Being a "thug" or "thief" doesn't garner the death penalty in America. Or it's not supposed to. ಠ_ಠ

shooting to kill is a huge problem. The 12 year old should not have lost his life for having a toy. Really scared, copper? Shoot his arm! Fuck. We have a gun lobby that is filling white people's heads with fear, so they are super arming themselves, and then a few nutty ones are popping off and killing people, and so we have twitchy cops who think every movement by someone with darker than pale skin is an attempt to reach for a gun. It is seriously fucking absurd. As a white woman I am appalled at my country!!!!!

[–]RKRagan [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I think the "No knock" search where they threw a flash bang grenade into a baby's crib to catch a drug dealer is more of an example on excessive force.

[–]Dinoshores [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Mike Brown wasn't innocent, he was an 18 year old kid who made a really bad decision. He will never get the chance to turn his life around or even say he was sorry because he was shot. 6 times. And his body laid in the street for nearly 5 hours while the cops fumbled around 'cause they KNEW Officer Wilson had really messed up.

[–]Angrydwarf99 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

The kid pulled out a realistic looking gun and pointed it at the cop. It was completely ok for the cop to shoot him in that situation.

[–]nodice_gaming [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Are you supporting cops shooting all the 'thugs and thieves'?

[–]jerryDanzy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The thievery is irrelevant, and your character judgment is fairly irrelevant as well, I think. Regardless of Mr.Brown's guilt, or character, I do not believe death is the proper price to pay for what he did.

[–]elcoyote399 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you think would have happened if brown did get ahold of the gun. Let's day Wilson was somebody you love. Think brown would have put the gun down and said lol jk? When he chose to fight he knew the risks. He chose poorly. The facts support the general narrative of the officers story.

[–]Greathunter512 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

But that 12 year old boy was waving a gun. They couldn't tell if it wasn't fake or not. That is a quite a VERY BIG MISTAKE. The cops don't want to hurt anybody but I guess some people don't believe that.

Edit- Here allow me to explain a little more on what I'm getting at. If I were in a public park and I had a real gun but I said it was fake. Now I'm 5'7 and 17 years old. I can lie and say it's a Airsoft gun. But we're talking about a 12 year old. This kid did not deserve to die but his mistake of just not listening and not telling the police it was fake and a Airsoft gun was something he should've done.

Edit2- read /u/theblindservant comment

[–]theblindservant -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

IIRC, the original call the police got about the kid identified that it wasn't a real gun.

[–]Greathunter512 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If that is true. Then police are at fault but if they were not told about that crucial information then they would've not drawn their guns on a 12 year old.

[–]NOVMBER [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

No, the person who called the dispatcher said it was "probably fake," but the dispatcher neglected to pass that information along. :(

[–]Generic_Lad -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Except its a fucking 12 year old.

Cops expect to be treated as "heroes", they claim how they "put their own lives in danger" if you're really a hero, you can do better than shooting a 12 year old.

[–]Greathunter512 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They told him to put that gun down. What does he do keeps waving it. If you were cop and what if it was real. He could've took a life of a cop or a innocent person. Why on gods green earth would you remove the only symbol that makes a Airsoft gun identifiable. That kid messed up right there.

I'm not saying he deserved to die but read the manuals for Christ sake people. But he made look like a real weapon which scared people.

[–]OldGuy98 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He was 100 feet away from the car when the final shot was fired. Innocent or not, lethal force was not necessary.

[–]jeepdave 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because guns have such a limited range....

[–]OldGuy98 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

sorry i dont understand, can you elaborate a little.

not trying to start an argument, i genuinely want to hear your opinion.

[–]Ultimate_Cabooser 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The fact that I had to Google about the 12 year old being killed is pretty much proof the media is so fucked up. If Michael Brown was ANY other race the news stations wouldn't give two shits after reporting it once, if even.

[–]Pipthepirate 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I heard about this case on NPR yesterday

[–]Ultimate_Cabooser 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, but it won't even last half as long as this thing did.

[–]Pipthepirate -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There isn't a lot on controversy about a person who pulls what appears to be a gun being shot

[–]Funkyapplesauce 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You wouldn't shoot at a shadowy figure pointing a pistol at you? There are valid human feelings on both sides, and if you overlook either one you are hurting the situation.

The real problem in America is that law enforcement feels more threatened by people of color than they do by white people. Leading to racial-profiling and things of that nature.

This is self-sustaining racism.

Black people live in poverty because of racism, so many (like any group in poverty) resort to crime to survive. This gives the whole group a bad name and encourages more racism.
It's a vicious cycle, and I believe the riots that will happen in Ferguson tonight are because of this. Downtrodden, angry people vent in exactly this manner.

A white cop is scared because he thinks a young black man hates him and a young black man is scared because he thinks a cop hates him. Each person's fears are warranted but acting on them will never break the cycle.

The world truly needs another MLK jr.

[–]shizza_ [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

I hope I can add on to your comment with a little bit of information that explains some processes behind racial bias - implcit attitudes..

One way attitudes are currently being measured, the Implicit Associations Test is pretty interesting, and made for some awkward lecture-hall side glances. Try it out yourself!.

In relating this to law enforcement's propensity to more quickly shoot black people, there are some great research studies that outline the phenomena. This one is a good place to start, but it's worth checking out other work.

If you do some digging, there are many studies that also support that the fear-reaction cycle can be broken down if approached correctly. I have hope.

[–]Funkyapplesauce [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Thank you for backing me up. This is one of the highest quality posts I've seen in a while.

[–]cheapeasymeals 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Playing devil's advocate: Supposedly, he reached for the cop's gun. What do you think he would have done with it if he was successful?

He had just robbed a store. He also supposedly attacked the cop. Not saying it's true but I don't think anyone can say with confidence that it's not either.

[–]NorthKoreanJesus 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

IF in the initial headline, the public knew the man was reaching for officer's firearm, the story would be polar opposite. The man, if still shot dead, would be unknown to the entire country because he was SO OBVIOUSLY in the wrong. However, the original (I saw first) was: White officer shoots unarmed black teen, dead. Wowza

[–]Antagonistic_Comment 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that he was a teenager is irrelevant. The fact that he was unarmed is irrelevant. In 2008 there was a case of an unarmed teenager who got into a fight with a 26-year-old marine and the teenager KILLED him. Actions can still be lethal.

[–]Pipthepirate 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If only there was a way to avoid being shot after attacking police officers

[–]WhiteFalcon56 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Michael Brown was a scumbag. Pretty obvious from the surveillance tape that he used his size to intimidate others. So on top of being a thief, he's also a bully. So no, I don't mourn him a single bit.

[–]allittakes222 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

It was a clean shooting. Brown deserved to be shot. When I say deserved I am in no way speaking off the cuff. I mean deserved. He robbed a convenience store and attacked a cop. He deserved to be shot. It was him or the cop, because of him. And it should have been him.

[–]Viperbunny [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

An unarmed teenager who rob and assaulted a man then tried to steal an officer's gun and charged at that officer. It doesn't matter that he was unarmed. He facilitied his own death. The tragedy is what is happening to the community and the shit this officer's family is going to deal with ad a result of all this. It doesn't matter that charges won't be filed. This officer and his famuly are going to be targeted. All for doing his job and trying to protect the community against a criminal. Teenager or not, he was a criminal and a real threat whose selfish actions have caused tremendous upheaval within his community.

[–]WasARealBoy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is my thought process as well. It was the same thing with the Treyvon Marshall case. Everyone is discussing racial issues or things like that and I'm just going "some guy KILLED a kid. Why isn't that what we're focused on?!"

[–]TogeBara 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

He was not innocent. He was a violent offender. He assaulted and robbed a store and the clerk. This man was a criminal.

[–]Anti-DolphinLobby 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I never said innocent. You're the one who read innocent into what I said. All I said was "unarmed".

We don't execute every criminal. We send them to jail. We try to rehabilitate them. That is the system. So whether he committed a crime is irrelevant to the shooting. The cop did not even know about the robbery at the time of the shooting. Criminal, not criminal, absolutely irrelevant.

The fact that he did not possess a lethal or even a nonlethal weapon at the time of the shooting is relevant. Because the police are trained to use the least amount of force necessary to handle a situation, and dealing with an unarmed teenager did not require lethal force.

[–]TogeBara [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

He was responding to the robbery call. He definitely knew about the robbery. The court case revolved around his responding to the call. Clearly the chief was not up to date on the facts, as one of the reasons the indictment turned out how it did, is because this officer was, in fact, responding to the robbery call.

The thing is, that you don't KNOW what the guy had at all. Anything that even remotely LOOKS like a weapon will be assumed to actually be a weapon in the moment. The least amount of force to be used against a possibly violent offender that might be armed, is a handgun. The cop does not know you or anyone else is unarmed until they themselves check, they should not and will not assume that the person is unarmed.

[–]Moebiuzz 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"innocent until proven guilty" goes to shit as soon as we feel threatened

[–]Toa_Ignika 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the thing. We should move on and improve.

[–]jerryDanzy -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you really hit the bigger picture here. Even if the officer was within the bounds of the law, that doesn't make what happened right.