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Stephen Colbert on cults. Sound familiar? (imgur.com)

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[–]ajrhugResident Trans FEEEEEEEMALE -11 ポイント-10 ポイント  (45子コメント)

colbert is a transphobe

[–]snacktivity 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (44子コメント)

actually he's one of the few people in the mainstream who treats trans people with respect. here's a link to recent interview with Janet Mock

[–]ajrhugResident Trans FEEEEEEEMALE -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (43子コメント)

sure

[–]mrsamsa 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Whilst I understand that "it's a joke" doesn't stop a shitty thing from being shitty, does it affect whether he's a transphobe to acknowledge that his whole routine revolves around the fact that his character is ignorant and bigoted with the point being that we laugh at him rather than with him?

If it doesn't, then surely we'd have to argue that he's also sexist, racist, homophobic, etc because those are all elements of his character as well?

To be clear, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the idea that it can still be harmful for him to promote these views even as a joke (especially since many people aren't aware that he's joking). I just think saying he's a transphobe because he parodies a transphobe might be a faulty jump.

[–]HollerSmarts 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's one thing to do satire, and another to just use slurs as a punchline. The fact that he's done it repeatedly and almost exclusively with slurs aimed at trans people certainly doesn't help.

[–]mrsamsa 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

But this is true of all bigoted opinions, he uses slurs and offensive terms for all groups, because he's playing a bigot.

Again, I don't think this necessarily makes the jokes okay, I'm just note sure we can use the comments to judge his character.

To put it another way, when we make fun of red pillers here we often engage in sexist humour, repeating slurs and stereotypes, etc, but I don't think we're necessarily sexists for parodying them.

Like I say above though, I am open to the idea that this kind of humor is still harmful.

[–]lifeoutofbalance 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm just note sure we can use the comments to judge his character.

You said it yourself, he's playing the character of a bigot, so judging his character as a transphobe is ok. The problem is wether it's ok to play a character of a bigot on TV and to question what you achieve by doing it. (besides greater ratings)

Maybe mimicking or playing a character is not enough. It is difficult for some of the audience (like the LGBT community) to see him and his character as a "joke", because people may just identify with the vicitms of his "character" (like the LGBT community) and others just repeat the same verbal repsonse later on (like bigots), which defeats the purpose of being satirical.

Sorry for the shitty grammar and spelling, i'm using my mobile phone.

[–]HollerSmarts 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

But this is true of all bigoted opinions, he uses slurs and offensive terms for all groups, because he's playing a bigot.

I don't know about that. I don't think I've ever seen him use the n-word as a punchline.

Again, I don't think this necessarily makes the jokes okay, I'm just note sure we can use the comments to judge his character.

No one's judging his character. I don't know or care if he's a good or bad person; I do know that he's frequently passed transphobic language off as humor on national television, and that definitely makes him transphobic to me.

To put it another way, when we make fun of red pillers here we often engage in sexist humour, repeating slurs and stereotypes, etc, but I don't think we're necessarily sexists for parodying them.

There is a line. I have no doubt people here have crossed it as much as Colbert has. In fact, the response to the original comment makes me doubt it even less.

[–]breadfollowsmeirrelevant gonads 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know about that. I don't think I've ever seen him use the n-word as a punchline.

Keep in mind that he does not write his own show. And there are certain words that our society will not tolerate, even as parody. The N word is one of those words. When the writers come up with a script, they are walking a fine balance between what will make people laugh, and what will offend the audience to the point that they refuse to watch any more. What you wind up watching is a result of what society will and will not accept.

[–]HollerSmarts 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Keep in mind that he does not write his own show.

Even a cursory look at imdb will show you he's credited as a writer on like 600 episodes of it. Even if he weren't, it's still a show he produces and stars in, so it's not like he's got no choice.

And there are certain words that our society will not tolerate, even as parody. The N word is one of those words.

What, so the n-word is more offensive than transphobic slurs? Christ. Listen to yourself.

[–]HAPiper 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What, so the n-word is more offensive than transphobic slurs? Christ. Listen to yourself.

I think what /u/breadfollowsme is saying is not that transphobic slurs are or should be less offensive, just that society is far, far less tolerant of the n-word on television. Whether that's right or proper is not the issue, it's just the way things are today. There is a longer history of use of the n-word that that plays into that as well. Society as a whole is less aware of issues regarding transphobia than they are of racism.

[–]ajrhugResident Trans FEEEEEEEMALE 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

if you throw a brick at someone and say "its a joke sorry!" right after, you still threw a brick at someone. it doesnt matter if it was a joke

[–]lifeoutofbalance 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Many people don't see it that way. The "joke" is still being perpetuated and he being in "character" is not satire when he's not being satiral, and just mimics. People are in "character" all the time when in different environments, stepehn colbert is a transphobe in character at comdey central, I wouldn't know about him in different environments. It's not satire when he doesn't give or present the criticism or irony of being a transphobe. Without that doing that, he's only bringing the verbal behavior of a transphobe to broader audience.

[–]LordCaptain 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow this almost sounds like satire. Wouldn't it be nice if we had some way to find out if this Stephen Colbert person often played a satirical character expressing views nearly the polar opposite of his own... oh wait.

[–][削除されました]  (31子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]mrsamsa 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    ... This is a bit of a shitty thing to say. We know that jokes about minorities can be hugely damaging and I think your comment glosses over those problems.

    Your comment about allies below is a little mistaken as well. If someone is contributing to the harm faced by a group of people then they don't need to treat them as an ally.

    "Allies" who make jokes that harm the groups they supposedly care about aren't really allies. That is picking your battle wisely.

    [–]snacktivity 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    he's making the jokes in character as a right wing pundit. apparently satire is off limits? and if ally isn't the right word, what do you call someone who invites a trans women onto his show to plug her book?

    [–]Transleithanianalpha fucks, beta bucks, gamma radiates via bremsstrahlung 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It is not a bit of a shitty thing to say. It is a very shitty thing to say.

    [–]ajrhugResident Trans FEEEEEEEMALE 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (27子コメント)

    literally all the shit i sent you has tranny or shemale in it. i don't care if you write jokes about us, but all of these are blatantly offensive and dehumanizing

    [–]snacktivity -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (24子コメント)

    I see so many trans people do this, where they antagonize their allies when they should be picking their battles more wisely. I understand there are many different struggles that a trans person must face in life, but the fact that you take umbrage towards jokes meant to make people laugh makes your struggle illegitimate in my eyes.

    [–]totes_meta_bot 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

    If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.

    [–]neveranerevarine 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I see so many trans people do this, where they antagonize their allies when they should be picking their battles more wisely.

    When, as an ally, you start asking to be treated in a particular way by those you support and telling them how they should fight their struggles, you stop being an ally.

    [–]snacktivity -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    it just seems so petty in the grand scheme of things. there are trans men and women dying every day, and this is who you choose to shame? it all just reeks of a victim complex to be honest.

    [–]evergreennightmare 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    it's not mutually exclusive ffs, we can care about both

    [–]snacktivity -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    never said it was. I'm just saying one is small potatoes compared to the other meatier option.

    [–]neveranerevarine 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Recognizing problematic statements =! shaming or petty

    If trans* folks die every day, it's not just because there are outlier shitbags committing acts of violence against them. It's because the perspective that trans* people are less worthy of dignity than others - that they are the butt of our jokes and therefore beneath us - is the default viewpoint.

    That viewpoint is reinforced when we reject out of hand any critique of individuals for what they say, and especially so when we couch it in humour.

    [–]snacktivity -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    your approach to equality doesn't make any sense to me though. if transphobia is so heavily ingrained into society, why focus on the effects of it rather than the cause? it feels like it's wasted effort going after comedians when there are people out there actively working to keep you from receiving equal rights. Colbert is not one of these people.

    [–]OffensiveUser 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (13子コメント)

    tank u alli for being powerful alli and deeming trans struggles illegitimate cuz those uppity trans people don't like being dehumanized in the media.

    u r truly the hero the lgbtA community deserves and I capitalized the A cause i need to stress the importance of allies in the lgbtA community ok.

    Really, you are a wonderful and unique snoflake that deserves their own highlight in the wonderful ally safe space that is /r/allies bcuz allies should be able to enjoy tasteless jokes that punch down and normalize the dehumanization of trans ppl.

    upvote if u crey about opressed allies evrywhere

    [–]snacktivity -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

    hate to destroy your narrative, but I'm not an ally. I'm a queer person myself, and trying to have a dialogue with you folks only to be ridiculed makes me understand why so many queer people want the t taken out of lgbt.

    [–]kurmeemurmeli 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Nice transphobia there. You know that being queer doesn't give you a permission to dictate things like whether T belongs in LGBT? Especially since transphobia is already an issue in so many queer circles?

    Jokes aimed at trans folk aren't anything new in this society, and dehumanizing shit is dehumanazing shit no matter if it's xXEdgeLord420Xx or Colbert spewing it. It's not clever, funny or challenging in the way it probably is meant to be.

    [–]snacktivity -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    so why is a transphobe like Colbert giving a trans women time on his show to plug her new book? you throw that word around so carelessly, it lessens the impact of the accusation.

    edit: holy shit, now I'm transphobic! didn't realize that suggesting gays, bis, and lesbians are not the same as someone experiencing gender dysphoria makes me a transphobe.

    [–]OffensiveUser 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    u r right, nobody should be called out on transphobic stuff especially when one transwoman has been on their show what was I thinking.

    so if I have a conversation with a black person does that mean i can use the n word?

    [–]snacktivity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    yes because that's exactly the same thing. (actually, you're allowed to say whatever words you want. you have free will, no one can take that away from you.)

    no one has been able to answer me, why is a transphobe letting people promote their shit on his show? doesn't that sound trans-inclusive to you? why aren't you willing to accept the fact that tranny and shemale is used by everyone to refer to not only transgendered people, but also transvestites?

    what do you think about rupaul saying, in regards to trans people taking offense to the word tranny, "No, it is not the transsexual community. These are fringe people who are looking for story lines to strengthen their identity as victims. That is what we’re dealing with. It’s not the trans community, because most people who are trans have been through hell and high water and they know -- they've looked behind the curtain at Oz and went, 'Oh, this is all a fucking joke. But, some people haven't... You know, if your idea of happiness has to do with someone else changing what they say, what they do, you are in for a fucking hard-ass road."

    [–]ajrhugResident Trans FEEEEEEEMALE 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    are you fucking kidding me? you're saying that, by getting angry over blatantly, incredibly transphobic jokes consisting of nothing but slurs, that i'm fucking illegitimate? what allies? colbert? colbert isn't anything close to a fucking ally, he uses my entire being as fodder for his fucking jokes. am i a joke to you?

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]HAPiper 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Let me throw this example out there. A few months ago there was a lot of controversy about the Washington Redskins' team name. Their owner, Dan Snyder, created a charity called the Washington Redskins Original American Foundation. This is pretty offensive because the name of the charity uses a slur for the group it is supposedly supporting.

      Colbert tweeted "I am willing to show #Asian community I care by introducing the Ching-Chong Ding-Dong Foundation for Sensitivity to Orientals or Whatever." This is clearly a direct reference to Dan Snyder's blatant ignorance in his use of the Redskins name.

      Out of context, referring to Asians with that kind of language is unquestionably ignorant and racist. IN CONTEXT however, as satire, it is obviously meant to illuminate ACTUAL racism. It's not fair to take comments made in the context of satire as truth, or as indicative of one's true feelings. Colbert does what he does to show that these opinions are WRONG, not to support them.

      [–]ajrhugResident Trans FEEEEEEEMALE 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      yes, but society at large realises tht racism is bad. but thy do NOT realise transphobia is bad, so when colbert says that shit, people think its funny because HaHaHa Trannies! not because Oh Jeez Thats Really Bad So Its Funny