4465
4466

State of Emergency Declared in Missouri. (governor.mo.gov)

undue-influence が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
ベスト
トップ
新着
注目
論争中
古い順
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]blogginglife 519 ポイント520 ポイント  (581子コメント)

Please, please pray or think of us here in St. Louis tonight. I am glad that the people of Reddit are at least more understanding in this situation than the comment sections on other articles, which just call us "niggers" and tell us to "stop looting".

There has been an impending sense of doom here for days. To see my city destroyed by racism, by militarized police, by opportunists stealing and looting, and by public opinion has really been depressing. I have lost a lot of faith in humanity in the past three months.

No matter what Michael Brown did, he was a teenage boy, and it is sad when a teenage boy dies. There are too many teenage boys dying, period. To understand the response, you must first understand the racism that has existed in St. Louis long before his death. You must walk along Delmar Blvd, where blocks immediately south are 70% white with an average house costing $310,000, while immediately north is 99% black with homes averaging at $75,000.

Before you judge whatever response that will happen, please understand that this is an incredibly racist and segregated city, and that people are angry here. Not just because of Michael's death, but because they feel entirely neglected by the government. They do not feel heard. This is what they feel they have to do to be heard.

[–]reboticon 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

but because they feel entirely neglected by the government

That's unfortunate since they have the votes to elect anyone they choose if they but exercise the right.

[–]blogginglife 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't agree with this at all, but I've heard that they don't want to flock to a system that they don't feel benefits or cares for them.

But, of course, a ton of black people vote. I heard that from some Ferguson protesters, though. And they recently set up voting registry in Ferguson and registers sky-rocketed.

[–]apleaple 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (19子コメント)

with homes averaging at $75,000.

are they like the same quality homes? or is it like middle class and then BAM slums?

[–]blogginglife 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (9子コメント)

North of Delmar in St. Louis, these would be two to three story hundred year-old brick townhouse-type homes that are very dilapidated and falling apart. They would be beautiful homes if fixed up, but are in very dangerous neighborhoods where half the houses on the streets tend to be abandoned.

North of Delmar is mainly lower-income. Directly south is upper-class....I live directly south, and am upper-middle class. We do not own our house, but is a $600,000 three-story home built in 1904. However, crime is bad due to location. Once you head very south, you're in middle-class territory.

[–]BreadedWonder 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why are the homes dilapidated and not fixed-up?

[–]blogginglife 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

this city is incredibly poor. Median family income is under $30,000. That's not enough money to support a family, much less fix-up a home. You can watch about the Delmar Divide, BBC did a piece on it

[–]helpwanted1 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

People like stealing copper from these homes to scrap for money. It's not worth fixing up, because you won't get what you invested and the possibility of losses due to theft is high.

[–]Meeloptu 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trust me, stealing copper won't keep a serious developer out. Running fresh PVC is cheap, especially after looters exposed all the plumbing.

[–]Srirachafarian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just bought a small fixer-upper in a lower-half-of-the-middle-class neighborhood. We have spent a lot of time and money making it livable, but refused to put in things that would be considered "luxury" like expensive countertops and floors. The adage I heard from many people is "never have the nicest house in your neighborhood." First, if your neighborhood is that bad, it makes your house a target. Second, no matter how much you spend fixing your house up, there's a cap to its value. You can't buy a $75,000 home in a $75,000 neighborhood, fix it up to a $300,000 home, and expect to sell it for its value. So at a certain point, fixing it up more is just throwing money away.

[–]RollerRagerMD 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

>crime is bad

>$600k house

Christ even the Midwest isn't safe from the stupid home prices of the cosmopolitan metropolises is it? Here I thought it was like Texas.

[–]penguinn 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A $600k house in St. Louis is very unusual. You can easily find a nice 3 bedroom in a safe neighborhood for under $100k if you're willing to live 15-20 minutes from downtown.

[–]skunimatrix 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm glad I sold my Condo on Kingshighway and moved further south/west out into West Co.

[–]ClassicClassicOOf 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well you see, they started out as the same quality... But years of residency have "encouraged" these homes to reflect how they have been maintained.

[–]Y_orickBrown 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It is like this in many places.

For example, Palo Alto is one of the wealthiest places in northern CA. Separated by the width of highway 101, is East Palo Alto, a very poor area.

You go from 3 million dollar homes, to homes that barely clear 200K at auction. Just by crossing an overpass.

You have not seen a situation like this apleapie?

[–]lofi76 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Kansas City, too.

[–]Y_orickBrown 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe it is a common theme all over America.

[–]caskar 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

In some parts of the city, yes. That's exactly what happens. As stated by someone else, Delmar and the Loop is a prime example. The area around Forest Park is home to a college and the park itself is extremely popular for all kinds of people, but if you stray one or two blocks too far in a certain direction, you're in a really bad place.

[–]Yo5yoman2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its not quite slums but it is not the best housing, downtown Saint Louis definetly has a divide not only in housing but in racial populations.

[–]All_You_Need_Is_9 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

North of Delmar gets really bad. I had a friend get mugged by three men a couple of blocks north of Delmar in broad daylight on a Sunday morning walking back home. His abandoned his idea of saving on college housing after that.

Delmar itself has a lot of cool college bars and stuff to go to on the weekends but everyone knows to not go north.

[–]JonAce 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (12子コメント)

You must walk along Delmar Blvd, where blocks immediately south are 70% white with an average house costing $310,000, while immediately north is 99% black with homes averaging at $75,000.

I believe you, but checked out a map of St. Louis color coded by race. Wow.

Delmar is the street one block north of Forest Park for reference.

[–]Vzdubz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

check out detroit...its worse

コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

    [–]TheseModsAreCray 618 ポイント619 ポイント x4 (366子コメント)

    please understand that this is an incredibly racist and segregated city, and that people are angry here.

    Yeah, the same line was used in the 1967 riots which destroyed billions in property and resulted in hundreds of deaths, including law enforcement.

    According to the Kerner Commission, it went something like: Some of the rioters (all black) are angry over "injustice" in society and burned down buildings in their own neighborhoods and shot at police; and those looters (all black) are just strangers not from around here, of course.

    You're judged by the company you keep.

    Do you wonder why the city is self-segregated? Those blacks who didn't want to live in fear of having their house broken into, wanted to have decent schools full of well-mannered kids, and not worrying about Mike Brown shaking them down at the grocery move out years ago—just like my grandparents did.

    Militarized police aren't killing young black men—other young black men are the ones killing them.

    They do not feel heard. This is what they feel they have to do to be heard.

    Well, you're going to consistently get poverty when that's what you practice.

    70% of black women having children out-of-wedlock is a recipe for more poverty, and it's only compounded when your think education and speaking proper english are "white" and find yourself jobless because of it and your unwillingness to develop skills.

    Senator Moynihan pointed this out 50 years ago and was shouted down as racist despite his assessments being an incredible work of sociology and factually accurate.

    I wonder how much longer we can pretend that personal choices and family structure don't matter in terms of outcomes, or that "poverty" excuses violence and disorder. These "poor" protestors are wearing more on their arms in ink or jewelry than I have spent on my entire wardrobe. Yeah, they're poor, culturally and ethically.

    [–]fzw 206 ポイント207 ポイント  (23子コメント)

    The Kerner Commission concluded:

    Segregation and poverty have created in the racial ghetto a destructive environment totally unknown to most white Americans. What white Americans have never fully understood but what the Negro can never forget--is that white society is deeply implicated in the ghetto. White institutions created it, white institutions maintain it, and white society condones it.

    [–]HankyPankyHank 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That was his point. Blaming whites.

    [–]redrobot5050 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This is way more informative than the smug asshole blaming the poor blacks living in Ferguson for not closing their legs and "moving somewhere nicer". Thank you.

    [–]TheseModsAreCray 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Notice the extreme lack of testing of assertions in the Kerner Commission Report.

    In fact, they make few citations, hardly academic, and make sweeping assertions with no data backing them up.

    It tangentially leaps from the idea that whites maintained the ghetto, despite Jim Crow laws not existing where the worst of the riots broke out in Detroit, Newark, and Watts; and somehow insinuates that it caused the senseless violence—in shooting police and arson—and looting of stores seen in the riots.

    The vital needs of the nation must be met; hard choices must be made, and, if necessary, new taxes enacted.

    In reading the Introduction, Conclusion, and The Welfare System sections of the report, one can see its authors had a vision that didn't require evidence or need to be tested against reality.

    Best intentions and government doing something were what mattered, outcomes and consequences be damned.

    [–]DrMikeTyson 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The fact that you seem to believe that Jim Crow was the only institution maintaining poverty and the ghettos in the 1960s is so willfully ignorant it has to be racism.

    Oh wait, let's revisit you earlier comment:

    the same line was used in the 1967 riots

    I love how decades of suppression is now a "line".

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

        [–]emberspark 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (30子コメント)

        Yeah, since when is "being angry" an excuse to cause potentially millions of dollars in damages, destroy your own city, and endanger the lives of people around you? I certainly understand racism exists, and these cycles perpetuate themselves, but at some point there has to be some personal responsibility. I have seen plenty of black people crying racism while using government programs, not bothering to look for a job, using drugs, etc. I've also seen plenty of black people who work hard and are forced to remain in a perpetual system that victimizes them. But that is not the case for every black person, and at some point you have to stop excusing every problem in the black community as systemized racism.

        [–]suegenerous 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (10子コメント)

        I think it is extreme frustration that causes rioting. I don't think it's possible for most of us to empathize. It's just constant, everyday oppression, big and small. It would drive me mad, for sure.

        [–]emberspark 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        But what do these people think rioting accomplishes? You're destroying your own city, you're lessening the impact of your argument, etc. That's why people like MLK advocated non-violent civil disobedience - because anything beyond that doesn't work. It just turns more people against you.

        [–]MsManifesto 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Radicalism is primarily for those who have little to no stake in the system. The system is broken for most of these people in question. They have little to lose, but gain the potential to be seen and heard, to exert power and force, and to destroy for the sake of the possibility of rebuilding something better.

        [–]Rakonas 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        People rioted and looted stores in the American Revolution. Fun fact, violence is always linked to social discontent. JFK said it, when you make peaceful revolution impossible you make violent revolution inevitable. It doesn't have to be planned and directed, the plight of the masses can be irrational and emotional.

        [–]emberspark 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        The question is, is peaceful revolution impossible? I have no problem with protests, sit-ins, etc. I have a problem with destruction and violence.

        [–]Rakonas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Impossible? Not exactly, even a marginally peaceful revolution will coincide with violent expressions of social discontent. It's not possible for the violence to be absent, but it's possible for it to not be endemic.

        The best way to have a peaceful revolution is if change is as quick as possible, but violence spirals out of control easily throughout history.

        [–]DrMikeTyson 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I mean, judging by the fact that sixty years after the civil rights movement racism is still a defining issue in America it seems pretty impossible to me.

        [–]PerkinsOhoolihan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy

        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

          コメントをもっと表示する (19 返事)

            [–]midwestwatcher 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (12子コメント)

            That logic cuts both ways.

            You really need to read this:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

            [–]HankyPankyHank 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (11子コメント)

            Over 90 years ago.

            [–]midwestwatcher 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

            Right. And have you ever heard of it? Was it in any history book from school? Not only do white people riot, they cut it out of history class. I would say WWI vets getting in their planes and attacking a residential neighborhood in the US would be pretty historical, wouldn't you?

            [–]HankyPankyHank 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            We didn't learn about black race riots either.

            [–]XLVIII_GOCOUGS 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Oh but Tuskegee is thrown around everywhere in our education.

            [–]scatmango 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            no no no - you don't understand. it's okay if they do it!

            コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

              コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                [–]Veskit 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                All of this does not negate the fact that the criminal justice system is heavily biased against black and brown people. Higher conviction rates and higher sentences across the board. THIS is ultimately what the people of Ferguson are protesting.

                [–]Notpan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                Well, you're going to consistently get poverty when that's what you practice.

                How are they supposed to practice anything other than poverty when that is all they know?

                70% of black women having children out-of-wedlock is a recipe for more poverty, and it's only compounded when your think education and speaking proper english are "white" and find yourself jobless because of it and your unwillingness to develop skills.

                How are black women, or anyone raised in a low developmental area with subpar schools, supposed to just know how to practice safe sex? Or practice good decision making skills if they are never taught them?

                I wonder how much longer we can pretend that personal choices and family structure don't matter in terms of outcomes, or that "poverty" excuses violence and disorder.

                How can anyone blame or assume personal choice is the issue when 70% of black women are having this experience? A few percent, I can understand, but 70%? That is a very clear indication of a catastrophic failure in our socioeconomic model. An entire demographic is being socialized to perpetuate their own poverty and you're blaming some sort of imaginary inherent fault within black people themselves.

                Yeah, they're poor, culturally and ethically.

                I sincerely wonder if by this, you mean the protestors or just black people in general.

                [–]TheseModsAreCray 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                Economist and Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Thomas Sowell, has written about this subject—specifically the welfare state's negative effect on blacks—for decades.

                A clip from his Charlie Rose interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmOpkQM9sOQ

                While out-of-date, one of his books is relevant to your questions, in that it covers the lack of consideration given to "cause and effect" or "preexisting trends" by the left's assertion that poverty is the cause of [increased out-of-wedlock births, crime, etc.] among blacks:

                The Vision of the Anointed: Self-Congratulation as a Basis for Social Policy

                Some of my other comments some of your questions, but you're going to need more than a reddit comment to change your mind.

                How can anyone blame or assume personal choice is the issue when 70% of black women are having this experience? A few percent, I can understand, but 70%?

                A quick point:

                When Senator Moynihan released his report on the deteriorating black family in 1964, the out-of-wedlock birth rate for blacks was 23.6 percent. Today it's 72.2 percent. That's a 205% increase in 49 years.

                Poverty was far greater and more widespread in 1964 than in 2014. What happened since then and when did the numbers begin to skyrocket? (Hint: Great Society welfare programs and cultural values/practices.)

                Sowell has many other juicy stats, including blacks' higher marriage rates than whites prior to the 1950s, black teen employment being higher than white teens' at the end of WWII, and many more. It puts a real damper in liberal theories of poverty and black dysfunction, hence why he's rarely discussed on the left, and met with disdain.

                [–]TheSourTruth 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                How are they supposed to practice anything other than poverty when that is all they know?

                Do you not think anyone has ever risen out of poverty to become wealthy and a force of good for the world? Jesus Christ.

                How are black women, or anyone raised in a low developmental area with subpar schools, supposed to just know how to practice safe sex?

                Do you really think black women don't know what a condom is? It sounds like you're the racist one, thinking they're so stupid they don't know what a condom is.

                [–]Notpan [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

                People who have risen out of poverty are clearly the exception, not the rule. Or do you think there are genuinely that many more white entrepreneurs, executives, politicians, professional level workers than black people because they just work harder and are more capable?

                Dude, don't be dense. Poverty is clearly linked to lack of education. It's not simply a matter of not knowing how to put a condom on, it's about not being properly educated on effective birth control, STDs, and the ramifications of pregnancy. In addition, their parent(s) aren't around as much because of working several jobs, and when they are home, they might have to split their time between 4 or 5 kids instead of just one or two because the same factors were at play when they were teens. These kids are only going to do what's expected of them, and when their schools have no funding, their neighborhoods are saturated with crime and drug use, and there are a limited number of positive role models in their lives, they are going to perpetuate the undeniable pattern that has these communities caught up in poverty.

                コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                  [–]undertherainbow 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (43子コメント)

                  I can't believe your blatantly racist post has been GILDED THREE TIMES.

                  THIS IS NOT A "BLACK" ISSUE. This is not something inherent to black people that asians or white people are immune to because they're all so well-mannered and civilized. This is an issue of extreme POVERTY across generations.

                  As someone who grew up in a poor neighborhood to two very hard working immigrants, I knew and grew up with many poor "thug" types of white/black/hispanic descent. Many of these people literally DO NOT KNOW how to live any other way. It's very easy to take for granted having a supportive family to mentor you and teach you good values and morals or having teachers who care about whether you learn. In poorer neighborhoods many don't have their parents to learn from, because their parents never learned either. So when they see a commercial, or hear a salesman telling them "if you do/buy x,y,z your life will be so much better" they believe it and buy that same thing.

                  TL;DR - Please don't be so quick to judge people you don't know or make rash generalizations about an entire race of people.

                  [–]noman2561 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  There's a difference between not adapting to modern society because you're poor and unable to and not adapting because you think it diminishes your heritage and culture. One is excusable but the other is a shame. Even a fool can see that when selecting any advise on how to live you take what suits you and leave the rest. If your culture and heritage leads you to destruction, perhaps you should keep only the parts of it that don't.

                  [–]TheSourTruth 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This is an issue of extreme POVERTY across generations.

                  True, but it is also a black issue, because it deals with culture. For example, look at the gun homicide rate of West Virginia, one of the countries poorest states.

                  Over the last 5+ years, West Virginia and Mississippi have been the two poorest states in the nation by GDP per capita, both having about the same. In 2010, West Virginia's gun murder rate was 1.5 per 100 thousand residents. Mississippi's was 4.0

                  West Virginia is 93.2% non-Hispanic White. Mississippi is the blackest state in the country.

                  My point is, if you don't think that subcultures have anything to do with violence, you're ignorant a very evident fact. Yes, poverty influences it too, but culture does as well, very obviously. And until we acknowledge that latter point, I feel the progress made in reducing these deaths will stifled.

                  [–]ArchieMoses 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I'm not buying what you're selling.

                  I am not judging, and not American but...

                  I see people every day from places like Afghanistan, Somalia, the Khmer Republic... People from places where they execute you for flying a kite or wearing glasses.

                  People dumped in North America without a word of English education, without any formal education, coming from literally nothing. Finding success and putting their kids through college.

                  The poorest person on the streets of Detroit or Baltimore is rich on the scale of the world. Perpetuating the "poor me" attitude, (not what I mean, but don't know a better way to say it) is only going to perpetuate the problems. Ultimately people need to take responsibility for themselves.

                  The tools are there, not to be a millionaire or retired home owner, but to find a degree of success and to live comfortably.

                  [–]HankyPankyHank 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  All I see is a post that lays out the facts and the history clearly and succinctly.

                  That's not racism. That's critical thinking and being open minded. You could use a dose of it instead of just yelling "RACISM" every time a new POV is posted.

                  [–]undertherainbow -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  I call it like I see it.

                  This isn't a "Black" issue, it's a poverty issue. Please don't pretend that this is a problem isolated to black people, because its not. It happens to poor whites, hispanics, asians, native americans, and anyone else that happens to be at the bottom of the totem pole. As I replied to another poster, if this was 100 years ago we'd be having the same conversation about those damn drunken irish and filthy italians.

                  [–]IM_AWKWARD_AMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  YOU seem to have the most sense in this thread. I cannot believe people are gilding and upvoting a post that is so racist. This is the one time where I am extremely confused why shit like that is getting upvoted. Tumblr-esque stuff gets made fun of here all the time, and while I agree they take it too far, sometimes they have a point. It's clear what reddit's opinion is of blacks.

                  [–]pierce_the_heavens -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  A well spoken racist is still a racist.

                  Its an issue of generational poverty cause by institutional racism. A lot of us (typically white, middle class) Redditors like to think we worked hard and earned what we have, but we forget the vast amount of time our families have had to keep a standard of living and education that has afforded the opportunities we have now. Of course some folks really did "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" as they say, but that is not easy. Especially when a single slip up means you'll be locked up or shot by the people that are supposed to protect you, or when your school receives less funding, and the wealthy people don't put their resources into your school because they don't want their children to be around your kind.

                  To make it worse, even if you have the forsight at 13-14 to stay out of trouble and study hard and make a better life than your parents, who do you ask for advise? Who can help you? You're in a community that has been abandoned by those with money and resources, and your parents have no higher education and no idea of how that process works. Your school is terrible so even graduating top of your class you will have a less compelling application than students who lived in an area with better schools, instead of an area where the wealthy whites pulled their students from public school and left it with the dregs of the government budget and teaching staff.

                  Most wealthy white people are racist as hell, want to say its a poverty problem instead of a race problem. And they're right, to a degree, a lot of the tensions come from the fact that people are poor and not given a hand to help them break out. But these people conveniently forget the way their own actions are complicit in keeping minorities poor and disenfranchised, and try to claim they aren't racist when in fact they are contributing to the problem by supporting the institutions that act against minorities interests and the institutions that work diligently to keep minorities out (I'm looking at you every single private school in the South).

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]TheNewJerseyDevils 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                    So you would say there ISN'T an issue with black culture?

                    I'm sorry, but a large number of the black guys I know (growing up in North Jersey, not exactly a white neighborhood) "think education and speaking proper english are "white" and [have found themselves] jobless because of it and [their] unwillingness to develop skills". TheseModsAreCray hit the nail right on the head.

                    This isn't an isolated incident either.

                    Too many young black men are growing up being told that life isn't fair and that they should cry "white privilege" every time something doesn't go their way.

                    Sure, I used to party my ass off back home when I was in my young 20's, but you know what, I grew the fuck up. I make a great living as a programmer and I came from just as broken a home as any of my old friends.

                    Is anyone seriously going to argue that it's because I'm white?

                    Fuck. That. Shit.

                    I am where I am today because I worked my fucking ass off studying for hours a day and regulating myself to a normal, quiet life of being a god damn adult. Meanwhile, every. single. one. of my black friends from Jersey is still sitting around smoking weed all day and acting like fucking children every time I speak to them.

                    You CAN'T say there isn't a problem with black culture because you're just making it worse. You CAN'T say that the media doesn't exacerbate it because they do. And you CAN'T keeping pulling the racist card because it fucking isn't.

                    It IS possible for cultural differences to exist without it being racist.

                    [–]undertherainbow 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                    Well, just so happens I also grew up in North New Jersey and I can honestly say that I've seen an equal number of hispanic and black gang bangers who don't like to "act white."

                    Please don't confuse "thug" "hood" or "ratchet" cultures as "black"

                    Edit to be clear: It just so happens that these two races are what the poorer areas consist of in north new jersey at this time. Any white people I knew that grew up in the same areas were very likely to be just as "hood" as any one else. Its true even for myself, god help you if you get me seriously mad. I go from white girl next door to ratchet real quick.

                    If this was 100 years ago we'd be having the same conversation about those damn drunken irish and filthy italians.

                    [–]TheNewJerseyDevils 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                    You make a fair point, but the argument still stands.

                    I HATE Bill O'Reilly 99% of the time, but when talking to Stewart about this issue, he made a VERY valid point. When you shove the idea of "white privilege" down the world's throat and make them all agree to it, you're just giving people an excuse to not work as hard. Sure, it is a valid excuse sometimes. But life is fucking hard.

                    The fact remains that if you work your ass off, ANYONE can make it in this country.

                    But no, instead we now have a ton of ethnic youths using the excuse that "it's going to be harder because I'm not white".

                    All I can say to that is get the FUCK over it. Everyone is going to have shit pulling them back, and it's infuriating to have people act like I had it fucking easy. Like I didn't take risks and put my entire future on the line to get where I am today.

                    The majority of people who bitch about their place in life have only themselves to blame but for some reason we have self-segregating nonsense flooding the system with "equal opportunity" bullshit.

                    [–]IM_AWKWARD_AMA 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    But no, instead we now have a ton of ethnic youths using the excuse that "it's going to be harder because I'm not white".

                    Could it be because whites typically are of higher class then minorities therefore giving them an advantage? Genuinely curious.

                    [–]TheNewJerseyDevils 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    That's absolutely true.

                    Does that make it a valid excuse to not work hard?

                    Fuck no.

                    Is that the message they are getting?

                    Fuck yes.

                    Would your assumption be less true if they weren't getting that message?

                    Probably; it's worth a shot.

                    [–]IM_AWKWARD_AMA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Oh yeah, everybody needs to work hard to get somewhere. I'm sure there are people crying "injustice" and just want to have everything served on a silver platter. Still validates the claims that whites have an advantage.

                    [–]TheNewJerseyDevils 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    They absolutely do, but it's not anywhere near as large as some people seem to be claiming lately.

                    [–]undertherainbow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    The fact remains that if you work your ass off, ANYONE can make it in this country.

                    Yeah, I don't think we're arguing at all. I completely agree with this statement and the point you're making. From my experience, I find it baffling that most people don't understand the vast opportunities available in the US, even for poor people. However, at the same time, I can't help but think that because they are poor, they don't understand the opportunities available, or don't think that they're worthy or capable to take on those opportunities. Life is fucking hard, but its even more so when you don't believe in yourself.

                    Also, kudos to you for making it through!

                    [–]TheNewJerseyDevils 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    We're definitely on the same page then, but I still don't think the first guy was being racist. I think you're right, and a lot of people don't know that they have options available to succeed, but I don't think that a lot of those people are honestly looking.

                    It's a rough situation without a simple fix, but I think the initial post was basically saying that it's not an individual problem, it's a cultural problem, and I truly believe that.

                    [–]undertherainbow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I'm glad we agree for the most part. The culture in these areas is definitely a huge culprit, but I think OP was being racist because he's calling the ghetto/ratchet/hood culture "black culture", which is inherently associating an entire race of people to a stereotype.

                    [–]TheNewJerseyDevils 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Lol "ratchet".

                    But yeah, I can see your point. I think it was more due to the subject at hand that he used that terminology, but I agree that it is an easy slip to make that can turn a valid argument into something unintentionally pretty racist.

                    [–]toclosetotheedge 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    I think the idea that by working hard everyone can somehow "make it" has been pointed out to be bullshit so many times that it's almost a joke

                    [–]doodads 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    I agree with you, this is some of the most blatant racism I've ever seen in a gilded post. I really hope this is not the line of thinking for most of today's young people, because this kind of attitude only engenders more violence and less understanding.

                    The problems in Ferguson are problems in all impoverished communities. These are the same type of problems that you find in (90% white) trailer parks all across the south.

                    [–]HankyPankyHank 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    Except poor white states don't riot or have the same rates of crime. Look at Appalachia.

                    [–]undertherainbow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    only crazy meth-heads.

                    [–]IAmTheMartian 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    There's a difference between rural and urban areas when it comes to crime rates.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                      [–]TheSourTruth 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      These are the same type of problems that you find in (90% white) trailer parks all across the south.

                      Do you think subcultures just don't exist or something? Yes, it's related to poverty, but it's also related to subcultures of violence that are stronger in black communities than others. I said this to another person in this thread:

                      True, but it is also a black issue, because it deals with culture. For example, look at the gun homicide rate of West Virginia, one of the countries poorest states. Over the last 5+ years, West Virginia and Mississippi have been the two poorest states in the nation by GDP per capita, both having about the same. In 2010, West Virginia's gun murder rate was 1.5 per 100 thousand residents. Mississippi's was 4.0 West Virginia is 93.2% non-Hispanic White. Mississippi is the blackest state in the country. My point is, if you don't think that subcultures have anything to do with violence, you're ignorant a very evident fact. Yes, poverty influences it too, but culture does as well, very obviously. And until we acknowledge that latter point, I feel the progress made in reducing these deaths will stifled.

                      I don't know how acknowledging this fact is akin to hating a race of people. Cultures exists, and they aren't all equal, believe it or not.

                      [–]cp_redd_it 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Justified right? In the real world, the Saudis have all the gold and are throwing it at any shit head who can strap a C4 on his chest.

                      [–]RobotPigOverlord [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

                      My dad grew up in poverty with no support system, absent father, abusive stepfather. No money for things like college. He made himself into a fully functioning member of society, with a great job, that takes great care of his family. He never resorted to being ghetto or stealing. Saying these people have "no way of knowing" how to act civilized, is utter bullshit. Stop excusing people for their shitty behavior by saying they have no personal responsibility in how uncivilized they are

                      コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                        [–]Maxplatypus 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Police aren't to blame. Blah blah blah. It is your fault. Blah blah blah. If you would only embrace a racist structure that looks down on your existence you would just be fine. Blah blah blah. Not my fault.

                        [–]TheSourTruth 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Police aren't to blame. Blah blah blah. It is your fault. Blah blah blah. If you would only embrace a racist structure that looks down on your existence you would just be fine. Blah blah blah. Not my fault.

                        This is the response, guys, of someone who has zero retort to a well made point.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                          [–]hamburger_helpster -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                          they feel entirely neglected by the government.

                          yeah and I wonder just how many of these neglected individuals recieve food stamps/welfare/unemployment. hmmmm.

                          [–]pewpewlasors 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          Militarized police aren't killing young black men

                          Well, yeah they are. Everything you said could be true, but its still true that American police are murdering innocent people nearly every other week here.

                          [–]jpepper07 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          You are just assuming this. As well as assuming anyone they kill would be innocent.

                          [–]RobotPigOverlord [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

                          They also kill white criminals too but apparently it only matters when they kill black thugs (but have thr media paint them to be nice guys)

                          [–]beautyspots 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          More African Americans are born out of wedlock today than fifty years ago. And yet poverty among African Americans was far worse fifty years ago.

                          It's almost as if the relationship isn't strictly causal.

                          [–]SenorRaoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          I didn't know Thomas Sowell had a reddit account.

                          [–]drosebrokemyheart -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          This is probably the best post I've ever read on reddit. Thank you.

                          [–]brandnewlady [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

                          Why are you blaming blogginglife for all of that? He didn't get to choose where he was born, and he most certainly can't alter what blacks there do.

                          [–]Maxplatypus -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (33子コメント)

                          Culturally and ethically poor? What are you, an old colonial master or just a good ole fashioned white supremacist?

                          [–]skankingmike 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                          You know black people who immigrant here seem to do just fine... they work hard and force their kids to do well.. in fact there are black families here that do well and force their kids to work hard... but there's a culture of ignorance. It's not just blacks I see plenty of rural poor idiot whites love to be stupid. It's just that there is more wealthy whites than blacks but this culturally ignorant aspect is not black exclusive. It's an American ideal that both poor blacks and poor whites keep except a poor white is white and can escape this easier.

                          [–]the-Tao 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          As a black immigrant, I hate being used as an excuse for America's racism. So much I didn't renew my green card. It's not worth raising a family here to see this primitive level of racism that seeps into every facet of black life. Just look at the racism on this thread alone.

                          [–]skankingmike 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          There's racism in some forms in every walk of life. It's human nature to have groups and be different. If it wasn't race it would be something else.

                          コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

                            [–]MuffinPuff -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                            ... I don't even know where to begin correcting your flawed logic and obvious bias.

                            [–]jpepper07 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                            That is because he is missing flaws. His bias appears to come from data. Research, it is a hell of a thing.

                            [–]MuffinPuff 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                            Research, especially from the sites listed in his post, mean absolutely nothing. I'm a criminal justice major, and I have to do research reports on issues like this frequently, and even in our textbooks, it explains the reports gathered are often based on faulty or completely inaccurate information. The OP touched on the essence of some of the issues poverty brings, but he was WAY off base for the most part.

                            [–]TroutFishingInCanada 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            It's numbers, so it can't be presented with any bias or agenda or omissions at all.

                            Please don't. Don't be a useful idiot.

                            [–]myxzyp -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            70% of black women having children out-of-wedlock

                            proof? becuase otherwise, wow that's racist.

                            edit: the day asking for proof, skepticism, and not rushing into something becomes frowned upon, that would be a very sad day for the human race.

                            [–]HankyPankyHank 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/

                            [–]dabbin 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            http://www.chron.com/life/mom-houston/article/72-of-black-babies-born-to-unwed-moms-data-1709669.php

                            First google result. Isn't it easier to research/read than make comments that make you look lazy?

                            And calling someone a racist on the off chance he is wrong, without verifying it, while he is right? Wow.

                            [–]TheseModsAreCray 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            proof?

                            Of course, you think people make up those kinds of statistics for fun? And what would be "racist" about statistics?

                            See: Table 13. Selected demographic characteristics of births, by race of mother: United States, 2012

                            I've saved you the trouble with a screenshot.

                            You can find the data in the large PDF file here from the CDC:

                            http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_09.pdf

                            [–]HankyPankyHank 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            edit: the day asking for proof, skepticism, and not rushing into something becomes frowned upon, that would be a very sad day for the human race.

                            Dude its not 1993, we have google in our pockets on our phone, right next to our dick cream.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                              [–]Avant_guardian1 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Gold for this ?

                              Jesus Reddit, this place has become a racist shit hole.

                              Every Ferguson thread is full of racist talking points, excuses and thinly veiled racist arguments. It's disgusting. What happened to this place?

                              コメントをもっと表示する (108 返事)

                                [–]weird-fishes88 170 ポイント171 ポイント  (82子コメント)

                                i think your cries will fall on deaf ears here on reddit. the majority of people here, in my experience, live in a bubble when it comes to social issues. they have already made up their mind about the "type of people" that feel the need to be destructive because they feel they, themselves, are being destroyed. unless you've lived it in some way, you can't judge how a community reacts to this level of dehumanization. i'm from jersey city, lived in Missouri for a few years growing up, so i feel you. i think wherever there is economic disparity and governmental neglect, there's going to be anger and a lot of people who are misrepresented and marginalized by the system. people can't see past the end of their own noses and as i've gotten older, i realize more and more that white people will never truly understand what the black experience is and will continue to write off our actions unless they are made to know empathy for the conditions and systematic injustice of our environment now and throughout the history of this country.

                                [–]blogginglife 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                Thank you.

                                Truly, unless you have lived here (or done some extensive personal research), all you really know of us is from the sensationalized media.

                                It is so easy to dehumanize a group of people by calling them "thugs" or "niggers" or whatever. These are people. Real, living, breathing people with breadth of personal experience that you may never understand.

                                Living in St. Louis, I can understand more. I can understand the EXTREME economic disparity and the governmental neglect. I can experience second-hand racism, from being friends with/attending school with majority black students, and watching them being ignored or typecast by officers and the government. I can never empathize, but I can sympathize.

                                The world needs more sympathy. Just because you aren't a part of a group doesn't mean that they don't exist. Just because you think, as a white person, that racism is over, doesn't mean that it is over. Just because you, as a man, aren't a misogynist, doesn't mean that women don't deal with misogyny every day. Imagine others complexly.

                                [–]wackylol 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                I don't think racism is over but I'm also not comfortable giving rioters a pass. For example, with the Rodney King riots how do you feel about Koreans being targeted en masse by rioters? That takes white people out of the equation, now it's immigrant shop owners vs black people. Is it still as easy to just act like this an issue of white people not listening?

                                You are right it's not simple like you can just dehumanize everyone involved, but it's also not really fair to throw it in the faces of white people hundreds of miles away.

                                [–]blogginglife -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I'm not throwing anything in the face of any white person hundreds of miles away...I don't really understand what you mean.

                                I just think people should try to see the people of Ferguson. If you imagine them complexly and not just as "black people who can't get jobs", then you might feel more sympathy.

                                I don't agree with all the protesters, I agree with very few of the rioters. But I understand where they come from. And today, that's important. It's so easy to hate arbitrarily or kill arbitrarily, but if you imagine people complexly, it's nearly impossible.

                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                  [–]Accidental-Genius 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I did sympathize with them until they started setting innocent businesses on fire, and hurting innocent people. These "poor disparaged protesters" are upset because a cop used excessive force, so they protest by.... Using excessive force? Makes a whole lot of sense to me.

                                  These rioters are a bunch of thuggish fucktards, I do not sympathize with them whatsoever.

                                  Oh, I've spend a considerable amount of time living in St. Louis and working with an organization called "Love the Lou" to help bring people out of poverty. I realize the rioters are a minority. Stop trying to get people to sympathize with these thugs. Let's spend our time and energy helping the poor disparaged folks who are bright enough not to destroy their own community.

                                  [–]PerkinsOhoolihan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Moved to Columbia recently. I'm with you man. These people are just unwilling to care and I'm sorry.

                                  [–]yabo1975 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  It's funny to hear all of this- My sister lived in STL until her death in a highly publicized trial there. Her murderer was somewhat famous, and the press was all over it. What struck me most, though, was that coming from Chicago like we did(which feels very self segregated), STL seemed very mixed, and everyone seemed to get along(at least where she lived by Gravois Park). Even at her funeral, and the trial, etc, I only got the impression that STL was a blended city unlike Chicago. I even bragged to my friends back home how "different" and "welcoming" it was to see such diversity!

                                  While the news seemed to play up the whole white girl victim/black man killer thing, we actually wound up befriending some of his family members, and he was actually a close friend of my sister for years prior to what happened. Never once was I given the impression that STL was racist other than the idiots posting online, or the news trying to "Give you the REAL story". Vultures.

                                  I'm sorry to hear that I was so wrong about a place that seemed to have such a shining light beyond what happened there. I wish you guys all the best, and that you find what I thought I saw once, when I was looking for hope.

                                  [–]muhnooer 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  The economic disparity is a huge issue.

                                  Sadly the people in the most economically distraught regions are the ones that keep electing all the assholes into the government that are making it impossible to fix.

                                  [–]weird-fishes88 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                  word, i wish i could give this response more upvotes haha. well said.

                                  [–]blogginglife 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  thanks. Seems more people in these comments are interested in dehumanizing people than being rational.

                                  [–]skunimatrix -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  Thing is I look at my Dad's generation, dirt poor white family but they emphasized getting an education. Blacks in the same neighborhood weren't taught by their families to value things like education. 50 years later he went on to become successful in the corporate world, where the black families in those same neighborhoods still live in those neighborhoods in as bad if not worse poverty today than they did 50 years ago.

                                  It's not that things couldn't be better, but almost as if they don't want it to be any better.

                                  [–]cheesynirvana 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  50 years ago systematic racism was well embedded into American culture. Black soldiers were returning from the war and not being given educational subsidies as part of the G.I. Bill because of such discrimination. Houses were being sectioned off to specific areas of cities, and despite not being explicitly states as segregation, minorities were the victim of it even today, as they make no effort to undo the wrongs of before.

                                  Watch as minorities are rejected from renting apartments (even today!), watch as they were turned down for jobs they are well and truly qualified for. You say no progress is made because of culture? Try and consider it was not an equal playing field for your father and African Americans! It's not like it's embedded in their genes to prioritize education less, its the surrounding factors that have beaten them down in many cases.

                                  [–]Sharin_the_Groove 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Could you please elaborate on "governmental neglect"? What is it that's causing the community there to feel ignored?

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                    [–]ILovePhysics 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                    I live in the Greenville section of Jersey City (one of the most diverse cities in the world). I've lived here my entire life and I am so thankful for that. Even though there is some disparity between Greenville and the gentrified downtown area, compared to other places, people of many races and cultures are generally mixed together here with very very little (if any) racial tension.

                                    [–]weird-fishes88 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                    oh yea i agree but you cant deny the evident moves by our politicians over the past 5 years to "clean up" the area and large part of that plan includes bringing in developers to increase property values that, in the end, will marginalize a lot of people and diminish the cultural melting pot that the area has been for generations.

                                    [–]ILovePhysics 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                    Yes - totally agree with you. And these developers don't give a shit about the community at all. They are building as fast and cheaply as possible and people will pay a shit ton for it, because now this is the "cool" place to be.

                                    [–]weird-fishes88 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    yep, i think Mayor Fulop is the final nail in the coffin for the working poor of the city. he's a complete hipster that's here to go after Starbucks and Whole Foods development contracts. he doesn't care about the city or the citizens, Jersey City will become the "new Hoboken" in the next 10 years and the minority groups will be forced into smaller subsections of the city that will see less money invested in their schools and infrastructure and more police presence. and the beat, as they say, goes on...

                                    EDIT: no offense if you voted for Fulop ;) lmao

                                    [–]ILovePhysics 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    None taken! I can't stand him. My neighborhood association and I have been fighting him on many things (the trash transfer station, ambulance contract, etc...). He's lost a lot of support here.

                                    [–]weird-fishes88 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    you guys have a website or something? i was working with the "West Side Community Alliance" for awhile volunteering. there are a few organizations springing up in JC, people are taking notice and starting to take control i feel.

                                    [–]TheSourTruth 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    the majority of people here, in my experience, live in a bubble when it comes to social issues.

                                    Are you kidding? That's basically completely what our generation is about. The strides made toward drug laws, transgender communities, sexism, gay marriage, etc. have been astounding given the short time spam, and it's particularly evident that it's being driven by young people, which is what reddit is predominately made of.

                                    [–]oEMPYREo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Can you please explain the dehumanization?

                                    In what way is the poverty they live in dehumanization? Is that the government's fault? What I see here is people waiting to explode over unfair treatment due to their race over a completely justified instance. I whole-heartedly believe that this was a justified shooting.

                                    I watched a video on live leak a couple weeks after this shooting. The man stole something from a convenient store to get the police called. He was pacing back and forth waiting for the police to come while people recorded. The police came and you can hear some inaudible police shooting and the man pulls a knife and rushes the cop. They shoot and kill him. The black guy shooting the video immediately cries out, "man they killed him over a soda man! Really? This man lost his life over a soda. The police out here are Doing too much."

                                    Is that accurate at all? This man brought the police out and intended to commit suicide by police and what does the man video taping immediately cry out? Should there be riots over that shooting too? Let's rob the stores because we are poor and not being treated fairly. Where is the logic in that? I understand the fact that it's been a powdered keg waiting to explode, but at least let it be over an ACTUAL racial killing or other event.

                                    I also don't see how the people living in poverty can blame anyone else at this point in time. Is the government purposely trying to keep them there? I personally would love for them to have jobs and not need governmental aid. At some point you have to stop making excuses and start making changes in your own life and stop asking for everyone else to make changes for you.

                                    [–]hootenanny 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    unless they are made to know empathy

                                    That's not how empathy works. That's how hate breeds.

                                    If you think you've a right to force anything, including thought or perspective, on another human, you've got a fucked up worldview.

                                    Good luck with that.

                                    [–]apolloreddit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    So what kind of government neglect? What does the gov need to provide more of?

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (16 返事)

                                      [–]HankyPankyHank 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                      To see my city destroyed by ... militarized police

                                      Here's where I stopped taking your rant serious. Militarized police were called in after the rioters ran about and they were effective.

                                      No matter what Michael Brown did, he was a teenage boy, and it is sad when a teenage boy dies.

                                      Not when its a strong armed robber. People like him are the ones destroying communities.

                                      You must walk along Delmar Blvd, where blocks immediately south are 70% white with an average house costing $310,000, while immediately north is 99% black with homes averaging at $75,000.

                                      How do the crime rates look like between the areas?

                                      and that people are angry here. Not just because of Michael's death, but because they feel entirely neglected by the government. They do not feel heard. This is what they feel they have to do to be heard.

                                      Because no one bothered to register to vote.

                                      People are sick of this liberal line of thinking. Most people don't feel sympathy for the protestors, nor do they feel sympathy for a criminal, or for the criminals family, who are also criminals. People don't feel sympathy for looters burning down their own neighborhood, then yelling at the police going in there to stop it, who in turn get shit on by the "protestors" and media. People don't feel sympathy for a group of people who stay relatively silent for the far more prodigious black on black crimes, which is what drives whites out.

                                      People are sick of the excuses.

                                      [–]GoiterGlitter 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Because it's not like anyone is writing laws in Missouri to make it harder or virtually impossible for many elderly, poor and young people to vote.

                                      Oh, wait. That's exactly what's been happening.

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

                                        [–]M_Night_Slamajam_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I understand the anger, the reasons why. I just can't bring myself to support the actions taken. Best of luck to St.Louis, but I can't support this.

                                        [–]FakeyFaked 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        I am glad that the people of Reddit are at least more understanding in this situation than the comment sections on other articles, which just call us "niggers" and tell us to "stop looting".

                                        You must be new to reddit.

                                        [–]BJ_FROM_GRANDMA 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                        All I see is a lot of excuses. So I AM going to tell you to stop looting, stop reacting violently. If black 'boys' (just little tiny baby boys just like tiny baby harmless Trayvon right?)would stop behaving criminally they would reduce the chances of being shot by the police.

                                        If black people riot after this verdict. Then it's their choice, to do so. If they die because of their actions, it's their fault.

                                        Not burning your own neighbourhoods might help in brining your property prices back up too.

                                        [–]I_TAPE_BUTTHOLES 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        Destroyed by racism? Blame the black race who declared the cop guilty before the facts came out because he was white.

                                        [–]EdgarAllanNope_ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Blame the black race

                                        Have you no shame? You don't even make any attempt to make yourself not look like a racist. Fuck off.

                                        [–]Velshtein 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        So he's no different from the protesters who only blew this out of proportion because Wilson is white, right?

                                        95% of blacks are murdered by other blacks.

                                        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                          [–]P2000Camaro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          St. Louisan here. Am I the only one who, if I didn't hear about this on Reddit, wouldn't even know anything was happening? Seriously. NOTHING has changed around here. I live in Affton, work in Manchester, visit St. Peters often... I've seen/heard NOTHING except like 2 days ago, my boss said "If all hell breaks loose here, call the cops and leave." That's it.

                                          EDIT: Also, used to work in Richmond Heights. I'm being dead serious when I say I've never met more racist people in all my life. And they were all black people. I was called racist on a daily basis solely because I couldn't help them with their problem, or they waited too long in line. It seriously got to the point where if I had to go on break, but the next customer in line was black, I HAD to take them otherwise they would SCREAM racism. Every. Single. Day.

                                          [–]lagavulinlove 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          I have lost a lot of faith in humanity in the past three months.

                                          YOU are part of the human race my friend, and you can set the example that leads to a renewal of that hope in your heart.

                                          Since you understand the issues, you can help to bridge them. Help even one kid not make that mistake. Take the hand of someone who's afraid, take the hand of someone who's grieving. Set the example and help end the cycle.

                                          You can be that person. My prayers are with your city

                                          [–]blogginglife 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Trying to do so. Meeting with the governor tomorrow.

                                          And thank you.

                                          [–]JellybeanMonarch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          The circle-jerks seem to be going strong in both directions here...

                                          There is undeniably a problem with descrepancy between race in the U.S., but in modern times it is rooted far too deeply to just claim (modern-day) racism as the cause. Any Black Americans descending from slaves were at such a great disadvantage in terms of wealth and education. Racism in the 20th century continued to keep Blacks from holding the good jobs or attending good schools. From parent to child this poverty and withheld education passed on.

                                          Even if, for example, the entire community of Ferguson suddenly became blind to race, the tension that exists currently would still be there because of the distribution of wealth. To me the predicament is not whites vs blacks, it is rich vs poor. Imagine if the teenager who was shot was Black and from a very very rich family. The reactions of everybody would be completely different. There still would have been outcry about the death of course, but I doubt that it would have caused such a reaction as the death of Michael Brown did.

                                          [–]jakealake4 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          stay up, friend.

                                          [–]zaturama008 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          is there any subreddit where he can public with pictures if the police commit injustice?

                                          [–]simsimsalasalsa 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          To see my city destroyed by racism, by militarized police, by opportunists stealing and looting, and by public opinion has really been depressing.

                                          Sounds like your city is being destroyed by niggers to me.

                                          [–]Curing_stupidity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          No matter what Michael Brown did, he was a teenage boy, and it is sad when a teenage boy dies.

                                          Even when the world is a better place without him? How long before he killed somebody?

                                          [–]bogahtir 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          "No matter what Michael Brown did"

                                          Oh okay, so let's all disregard everything he has done wrong since he's black. Got it, thanks.

                                          [–]britneymisspelled 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I've always been very....sympathetic? toward the plight of black people. That sounds condescending but that's not how I mean it. I've always considered myself forward leaning on the scale of social justice, try to see where people come from, etc. I'm a St. Louisan, raised in Olivette. I knew St. Louis was as racist as I expected most places are, but I thought the racists were confined to the outer counties or the few pieces of trash that I know. It wasn't until all this happened I really grew to realize how fundamentally segregated this city is. I live in the city and was recently driving home from North County, in an area Id never been. I was traveling down a street that became McCausland - the street I live off of - but at one point I looked up and realized I may as well have been in another town, it was so foreign to me. I LOVE the city, I go everywhere in it, but I thought "Where the fuck am I...." Looking up I saw the moon on The Moonrise Hotel. You could have knocked me over with a feather. I felt like I was in another world and I was only a mile from home, but just "on the wrong side of the tracks". It's really opened my eyes in a way I didn't think was possible.

                                          [–]_tom_crews_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          He wasn't a boy. He was a grown ass man.

                                          [–]11l1l1l1l1l1l11 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Yea all the rioting is really going to help businesses that create stable middle class jobs to start opening up there.

                                          [–]anaspiringengineer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Neglected by our government. Hahahahahaha

                                          [–]anaspiringengineer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          It's not a government or racism problem. I'm sorry but truthfully it's an African American problem.

                                          [–]agreeswithevery1 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Please understand that when you attack a police officer you might get shot.

                                          [–]RXisHere 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Why is it racist no one stops a black person who can afford housing to buy one

                                          [–]oEMPYREo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Are they (or you) not supporting racism by supporting a person that, according to the evidence, was probably justifiably shot?

                                          They (or you) don't care about the facts of the case, only that it was a white cop and black person that was shot and therefore wrong. Isn't that the real racism?

                                          [–]hmcbabe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          You don't see white people rioting like this. Just saying...

                                          [–]Buddynorris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Your entire reply is a shining example of why you nor the people you speak of will ever learn to change themselves or the area they live in. Keep making excuses. Excuse rioters and give passes for wrongoing and blame the white man. The comment gilded in reply to yours summed it all up. Funny how you didnt reply to that i wonder why?

                                          [–]hotsizzlepancakes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          No matter what Michael Brown did

                                          No actually, it matters

                                          [–]jeremythelee 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          No matter what Michael Brown did, he was a teenage boy, and it is sad when a teenage boy dies. There are too many teenage boys dying, period.

                                          So you're saying if he did attempt to assault a police officer, as many have speculated, he did nothing wrong because he was young?

                                          [–]SundayBeatle 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          I can't believe your comment was gilded once and a blatantly racist reply to yours was gilded 4 times. Pay no attention to TheseModsAreCray, or his bandwagon. There are likeminded people that acknowledge the massive wealth inequality and problems it causes, and at the end of it all we just want to see everyone walk away alive. Reddit just happens to not be that place.

                                          [–]Perniciouss [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

                                          He wasn't a boy though. He was a man. The guy was bigger than me for christs sake.

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)