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A community vote on OppaWumboStyle (self.pokemon)

wtfRedditGiovanni does not like you asking questions[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

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[–]_Vote_EXTEEEEEERMINATE 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (64子コメント)

No. Don't do this. There's a very good reason I did not add him as a mod along with Abra, Thunder and Jensen way back when.

I should have commented before shit hit the fan and he convinced the sub to side with him, but it's too late for that now.

[–]faptastic_platypus[Danial 3909-7556-6583] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember when those events happened, then I saw him apply for mod a few months ago. Wasn't that happy. Wish your comment was higher up, Vote.

[–]pokemaniacausMake it Rain Baby 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (57子コメント)

Have you got some sort of personal vendetta against the guy?

I think we should respect that the mods are consulting the community, that can only be good surely?

[–]_Vote_EXTEEEEEERMINATE 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (46子コメント)

I do not have a vendetta against him. I'm saying is that his application to mod this community was purely a power grab for him. This is obvious with his previous actions with regards to the /r/svgiveaway and /r/svexchange situation.

All he wants is power, and he flips shit when he doesn't get what he wants, as seen by his sobstory post "explaining" why he was removed and how wrong the other mods are.

[–]Pokeyster 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (4子コメント)

sorry but can you go into a bit more detail with specific examples possibly? Not trying to sound harsh but I think it would be better to get the whole story before making a decision.

[–]_Vote_EXTEEEEEERMINATE 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You can find the entire situation here. It'd be good to have a read through it.

This as well.

[–]RogueX7` 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hey look its me!

Wow its already been 8 months since that happened?

[–]joescoolso i herd sheep 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/W3tbW.gif

[–]ThunderRoad5 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Come on, son!

[–]pokemaniacausMake it Rain Baby 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (32子コメント)

Oh ok, fair enough I suppose! I was out of line to say that!! Apologies. You'd have to agree community consultation is good though?

You used to mod this sub right?

[–]_Vote_EXTEEEEEERMINATE 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (31子コメント)

Nah, it's good to ask, you weren't out of line.

Community consultation is always good, but a strawpoll on a touchy subject so soon after it occurred is (imo) not a good idea.

And yeah, I did. I'm the one who added some of the new mods :)

[–]Ni2Roze 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I really agree that this should not be done this early. People who were not supporting Oppa was downvoted in the previous threads. Even some of the neutral ones were at around -10, it was stupid. People are just so pissed off that they just downvote everything that they don't agree on. I haven't been on reddit for that long, it kinda sucks that people don't use the voting system correctly.

[–]_Vote_EXTEEEEEERMINATE 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Exactly. The results from this are going to be extremely biased and not represent anything properly. Everyone is caught up in the hype/drama and not thinking straight.

[–]Ni2Roze 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yup, it is pretty much confirmed that he will be back as a mod in this rate. And I'm not really sure that they work out great together after all this drama between them. Well, I just hope it will work out well.

[–]PandaStyle00 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

From the votes right now it doesnt seem that way...

[–]Ni2Roze 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

At the time I voted and from the comments of the earlier threads, it was 75% in favor of Oppa. After 7 hours, things can change you know.

[–]pokemaniacemily 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just to update 2 hours after this comment, the vote is almost nearly split 50:50. I think it's less biased than you and the repliers to this comment may think.

[–]DoubleFriedDrizzle yo' shizzle 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even split does not mean that there isn't any bias. Proportions might be way different if people have time to properly discuss and cool down.

[–]Pokeyster -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, as it already is, this vote is going to be extremely biased hearing only one side of the story. I wish that we could start the vote over but hear BOTH sides of the story.

[–]Deathmask97Gen 3 for Life -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

From the OP:

For those that haven't been following the events:

OppaWumboStyle's version: http://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/2mi81a/my_removal_explained_in_full_detail/

Our version: http://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/2mj313/our_side_of_the_story/

Extract from the modlog: http://i.imgur.com/P0PiSiY.png

All you have to do is scroll up to see this, not to mention these links have been on the front page for a while now.

What are you talking about?

[–]Pokeyster 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's there now. Before when this vote first went out (around 7 am EST) there was only Wumbo's perspective on the top.

[–]ThundergrungeHistory's written today.[M] 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I agree with /u/_Vote_

I was really shocked the outrage the community had when Oppa posted 'his side'. People assumed he was immediately in the right, because he gave a bigger statement or more proof. It actually made me feel bad how some people talked about us (moderators), that shit just isn't nice and it forced us kinda into a corner.

I'm also not saying Oppa is wrong. I just think he 'forgot' to highlight some parts of the story. Besides that I have nor have I ever had any problems with Oppa. To me it was about his collaboration with other mods that I didn't seem fit (not gonna speak for other mods here) and that's okay.

It was just really depressing to see how everyone (exaggerated, of course) was siding with Oppa on this, while there's much more to the story and the decision wasn't made within a few minutes. But it is as it is now. I wasn't pro community vote (I was strongly against it), but it happened and I'm gonna stand behind the mod team, even though it might not necessarily represent my opinion ;)

Once more to clarify: I have nothing against Oppa as an individual, but as a moderator I don't think it really worked out. And again: that's my opinion on the matter ;)

[–]Statue_left 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Once more to clarify: I have nothing against Oppa as an individual, but as a moderator I don't think it really worked out.

Then you shouldn't be doing this. Being a mod isn't about who is the most popular, it's about who can mod effectively. The community cannot decide that. What this poll is doing is putting a band aid on a bullet wound. If he doesn't work with you guys, you can't mod effectively. Oppa has completely played you and it's almost admirable how easy he's made it look.

[–]ThundergrungeHistory's written today. 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It isn't about being popular. That wasn't at all what I tried to communicate.

As I said in the post too, his collaboration with the others mods didn't seem to fit. In other words not as a team.

And again: I wasn't for the community vote. I think it is ridiculous. But it is Oppa who made a post containing his story as 'unbiased as possible'. And everybody fell for it. Saying only we got played just doesn't go with the truth.

[–]Statue_left 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Saying only we got played just doesn't go with the truth.

I didn't say it was just you. Everyone here did. People saw his sob story and flocked to it and it took you guys too long to dispute it. The uninformed majority was already on his side. The fact that this poll was even created means he's won. The control has been taken out of the hands of the mods and into the hands of people who don't understand the issues. I've already seen witch hunt comments saying that there should be these polls for other mods.

It isn't about being popular

Except that's what this poll does. People have no idea what works best for the mods, they see the name of someone they like and don't think further. I don't blame you specifically for putting this up if you were against it, but the fact that it was creates unnecessary conflict and chaos within the sub. You should have just stuck by your decision. You are all here to moderate, not to appease the majority.

[–]ThundergrungeHistory's written today. 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't expect we would be on the same page, but I actually totally agree with you. That's also why I was opposed to the vote.

However, the problem is: we have a mod team from around the world and we need to communicate first and when we have sufficient feedback from each other, we can make good decisions.

I think we also should've sticked with our decision, but as I said: we're from around the world and the decision was made.

[–]FistingAmy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just my two cents. He posted the message you sent him explaining why he was removed, as I'm sure you've seen.

The way it read, and maybe you didn't mean it to, came across as accusatory and aggressive. And the fact that you told him that the decision would not be overturned may have made him feel that you back him into a corner. Like the the decision had been made without trying to correct it internally first and he could do nothing about it, because you wouldn't allow any conversation about it.

Edit: I've already voted, but for any good to come out of any this, both sides, Oppa, and the other mods, need to accept that they are both at fault and neither are victims. So they both red to stop playing victim cards and get over it, learn from their mistakes, and move on. The mods should never have removed Oppa to begin with. At the very most, give him some kind of serious warning that going behind their backs will not be tolerated. This should have been handled internally and should never have even been on the front page.

[–]ThundergrungeHistory's written today. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I get what you're trying to say, but I also think you are wrong.

The mods should never have removed Oppa to begin with.

That is obviously our decision to make, not anyone else. I get that there are remarks about it, we didn't expect otherwise. But this? Wow. Just wow.

At the very most, give him some kind of serious warning that going behind their backs will not be tolerated.

We did communicate the problems with him, several times. I don't think we have been clear enough.

This should have been handled internally and should never have even been on the front page.

Can't believe you're saying this. Wanna know who made it to front? Oppa. Not the moderators.

[–]FistingAmy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I didn't place blame on the mods for putting it on the front page. I said it shouldn't have been on the front page. I know who put it there.

I also understand that it is your decision to make. But I think it can be understood that mistakes happen, and if this was a first (if it was a first) then it should not have warranted an immediate removal.

I've made mistakes as a moderator before, and I was called out on them, but was not removed because it was a mistake. I owned up to it and accepted I messed up. Which both of you need to do. Mistakes were clearly made on both sides.

I stand by what I said.

[–]ThundergrungeHistory's written today. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, thank you for your input. It is always appreciated. I'm just glad it can be done in a civilized manner because I've seen otherwise in the last 24 hours.

[–]poll0080 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your writing style is super abrasive dude, and given some of the opinions you voiced in this post, you don't appear to have the qualities necessary in a leader of a community.

[–]ThundergrungeHistory's written today. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fortunately I don't see myself as the leader of any community.

[–]poll0080 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Regardless of how you see yourself, you must surely realise that given your status in the sub, others are going to see you as a leader and as a representation of the moderating group as a whole.

Additionally, I would like to point out that you stated:

To me it was about his collaboration with other mods that I didn't seem fit

Yet you then go out of your way to state in the same post:

I wasn't pro community vote (I was strongly against it), but it happened and I'm gonna stand behind the mod team, even though it might not necessarily represent my opinion

This statement is the exact same uncollaborative behaviour that you feel put Oppa in the wrong. I.e. actively voicing, or acting against the decision that the moderating team came to prior to said actions.

I see no value in making statements that undermine the decisions that you guys, supposedly as a team, decided upon. Simply put, what you have just said regarding the issue is rife with hypocrisy, and if you believe that Oppa should be removed from their position due to behaviour of kind, then how can you believe that you should still maintain the position when guilty, albeit to a smaller degree, of the same crime?

[–]pokemaniacausMake it Rain Baby 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think time will ultimately prove if you're right about OWS. :)

It's odd to think you're not a mod anymore, would you ever do it again?

[–]_Vote_EXTEEEEEERMINATE 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (4子コメント)

His past behaviour has shown me right, but that's just my opinion.

I don't have the time to mod big communities anymore, unfortunately. I'm sticking to smaller ones right now, and modding for me will probably completely stop within the next few months (university picking up since it's my third and final year). Might come back in a year or two though.

[–]pokemaniacausMake it Rain Baby 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good luck with university mate

I'm starting my medicine course next year, very scared

Hopefully you'll be back to modding big subs one day :)

[–]loveyouinblue -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

WHAT THE FUCK YOU DO MEDICINE? WHERE?

[–]LitaganoFC: 1521-4174-7990 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

...hey. Sorry for giving you so much shit while you were a mod.

Good luck with your studies!

[–]joescoolso i herd sheep -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

a strawpoll on a touchy subject so soon after it occurred is (imo) not a good idea.

ESPECIALLY a Strawpoll, as those with multiple browsers or devices can vote multiple times.

[–]loveyouinblue 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Who are you exactly?

[–]OppaWumboStyle 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

He is a moderator of /r/pokemontrades and /r/svexchange. He is also an ex-moderator or /r/pokemon

[–]loveyouinblue -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why ex-mod?

[–]Statue_left 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't want to mod anymore iirc. He wasn't removed if that's what you're thinking

[–]DoubleFriedDrizzle yo' shizzle 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/2mjveh/a_community_vote_on_oppawumbostyle/cm4wu7e

[–]OppaWumboStyle 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I believe he left on his own terms

[–]PandaStyle00 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cant believe people are downvoting you just for providing information

[–]ZhadebladeInkay kawaii desu. 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has previous experience, not a vendetta.

[–]ceol_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

that can only be good surely?

This isn't just consulting the community. It's letting the community have the final say. There's a reason it's called moderation and not representation: Subreddit moderators are expected to protect the interests of the subreddit, even if that happens to go against the community at that point in time.

For instance, hypothetically, what if /r/gaming happens to invade one day and post a whole bunch of Digimon stuff while downvoting everything Pokemon-related? Technically, it's the community deciding that, right? There's nothing about the /r/gaming invaders that's much different than any other random person on the sub. If we go by a "the community has the final say" logic, /r/pokemon would be about Digimon, because that's what the community has voted on, so therefor that's what the community wants.

Hopefully you can see the flaw in that sort of logic.

[–]FistingAmy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then we could invade /r/digimon and it would turn into an /r/trees and /r/marijuanaenthusiast thing.

[–]scorpzrage 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, /r/potatosalad and /r/JohnCena.

[–]jozaud 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Your argument here is a straw man, so yeah I DO see the flaw in this sort of logic. Those posts you're talking about would be against several rules and would be removed. Posts that aren't related to pokemon aren't allowed here, and brigading from another subreddit is grounds to get you banned from reddit by the admins.

[–]ceol_ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Huh? It's a hypothetical to point out flawed logic. Communities invading has happened before on reddit and caused the entire front page of that sub to be empty due to everything being downvoted into negatives.

Posts that aren't related to pokemon aren't allowed here

That's up to the community, though, as seen by OppaWumboStyle's original thread being left up despite having nothing to do with Pokemon. Going by the "let the community have the final say" logic, rules can be ignored or changed if the community wills it. This is why moderators are moderators and not democratic representatives.

[–]jozaud 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

a metapost about this subreddit obviously belongs in this subreddit.

And that SRD thread you linked is exactly why brigading is grounds for the admins to ban you from reddit.

[–]ceol_ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really? Because I don't see anything in the rules about meta posts, and it breaks the very first rule. If it were made by a mod like this thread, I could see it, but it was made by someone who had no authority.

Anyway, this is just to prove my point that a subreddit can't be run by the community. It has to have a vision, which is enforced by the moderation team.

[–]Deathmask97Gen 3 for Life -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep, definitely a Strawman.

You're technically not lying by using this hypothetical example, but you're definitely misrepresenting the situation seeing as this kind of behavior would awaken the elder mods to drop the legendary Site-wide Ban Hammer - aka the elusive Admin Intervention spoken about in Reddit lore - and the results would be catastrophic for the invaders.

You're not wrong, you're just being an asshole about this.

Your argument doesn't hold up.

[–]ceol_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait, what about my comment makes me an asshole? Just because it's counter to everyone else's? And what about it makes it a strawman, specifically? I never misrepresented anyone's position. I gave my own hypothetical example. Linking to the definition of a strawman does not an argument make.

The fact the admins might shadowban the invaders (considering /r/guns still exists, we can assume not every invader was shadowbanned, and not every invasion warrants admin intervention) is secondary to my point that relying on the "community" to moderate itself is flawed. (Not only that, but shadowbans are per-account, so the invaders need only make a new one to continue. Your assertion that a shadowban would be "catastrophic" is incorrect.)

[–]thedarkartistayy lmao 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh damn. I wish I read the replies first.