102
103

Let's have a talk... (self.UFOs)

Gibson1984 が 投稿

I don't know what the deal is with this sub anymore. Seems like the only upvoted comments on here are generic "debunking" terms such as:

Chinese lanterns

Shrimp boats

Flares

Drones

While these may be true in some cases, there are instances in which these explanations are totally incorrect even in terms of physical nature of said culprits; yet these posts skyrocket while anyone trying to post rebuttal is downvoted often without reason why. Now, I'm all about healthy skepticism, but the skepticism has turned into cynicism in this sub.

I often see people giving bullshit theories and getting praised even when their statement is laughable http://redd.it/2l9ois and although this wasn't as significant an example, the point still stands. It's like any answer except "that is literally an unidentified flying object" or "this is scientifically baffling and there is no practical explaination" is a good one.

I've had comments downvoted as soon as I post them, within seconds, as if by a bot or shill. Do any of you even have an interest in this in terms of extraterrestrial life? All too often I just see downvote brigades and really terrible excuses of debunking explainations.

Can we at least agree that the evidence something outside of this earth or dimension is visiting our skies, livestock, nuclear bases, and crop fields?? Is there really any doubt anymore? Idk... I'm just dissatisfied with the lack of support and healthy progressive discourse in this sub. I'm losing faith in it.

Please, I'd love to see some posts in here and hope we can address what I feel is an issue in the community and not to be downvoted out of sight...

Thanks.

*Thanks to the individuals with multiple accounts for downvoting all my comments. I really hate it when people take away my imaginary Internet points.

全ての 120 コメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
ベスト
トップ
新着
注目
論争中
古い順

[–]ademnus 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ok, you want to talk, let's talk -politely.

I have been a part of this sub for years. I came to sift through good, reliable, sourced information. I have found blurs, smudges, chinese lanterns and flares. This does not mean there is not good evidence to see -I just don't see it here.

If someone posts a smudge on a photo and you don't scream "omg loser that's nothing" but rather, very politely, say "this doesn't prove anything, we can't see any details, how can you discern the difference between a smudge and a UFO" people go nuts on you. It's like you MUST believe every speck and spot or they call you a wild skeptic.

Do any of you even have an interest in this in terms of extraterrestrial life?

Yes. I do not, however, have any interest in pretending worthless images and videos have value in the search for it.

But let me impress this upon you: you WANT skeptics. Not derisive ones that walk in with the pre-existing bias that this is all bunk but the ones that will try their best to find any and every rational, scientific explanation. Why? Because when they cannot do that, you know you have found something.

I haven't downvoted you nor do I intend to, and I expect the same courtesy in return. We can apply rigorous methods to weeding out hoaxes and misinterpretations in the hopes of finding viable evidence in the end.

I have no pre-conceived bias at all. They may be visiting, they may not. I certainly believe they exist. This entire vast universe is surely not the sole property of humanity. Whether or not they are actually coming here remains to be seen. If we want to KNOW rather than BELIEVE then we ought to try to be as skeptical as possible WHILE sifting through as much evidence as possible. Otherwise, we are just spinning our wheels.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree with you 100%. I welcomed skepticism and even mention it in my OP. However, the culture here can sometimes be deleterious to the cause of progress and constructive discourse and sometimes leads to a circlejerk behavior. That's what i wanted to address.

[–]ademnus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. I just didn't want to see it swing the other extreme. The circlejerk I usually encounter is "why can't you just believe."

[–]ASK47 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't forget to tell him what certainly means! JK, don't take it personally. I was going to respond to your definitions up there, but it was getting a bit absurd. But then I see "I certainly believe they exist" and it proves the point I was making - it is much more a statement of belief and opinion when someone is "certain" about something. It is hardly ever a scientist saying "I'm certain it's true because I have repeated the experiment myself and achieved consistent results". See what I mean?

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get that. It's just that he used the word in the wrong way and I took it literally. Kind of like how people use literally when they mean figuratively. I just didn't give the comment the benefit of the doubt.

[–]Onyyyyy 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (36子コメント)

I feel the same way.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (35子コメント)

I'm glad I'm not the only one. This is a subject I'm truly passionate about and am highly intrigued by. I feel the culture in this sub is shitting on an enlightening phenomenon usually without warrant. It's like believing in ufos makes you an outcast in /r/ufos.

Wtf happened?

[–]Onyyyyy 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure what happened. Maybe we need better mods or change the sub to private. When it comes down to it there are a lot of great members with the minority being the people you speak of.

[–]LiquidCoax 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hope nobody plans on getting a serious pat on the back or international praise for their beliefs in these phenomena. The message is clear and has been from the beginning; "If you come after this info we will do everything we can to make you out crazy or a fool". That's been the heart of many a government's position on the best way to keep secrets from seeing the light of day; destroying lives (largely via credibility). Paul Bennewitz would still be alive it were otherwise.

That being said, anybody who is serious about anything doesn't give a damn about how they might be viewed from the outside. My main point being; don't let anybody sway you from your course of free discussion, challenging ideas, or following the evidence you deem credible. Especially random people on the internet, or for that matter ANYBODY claiming to be an expert in this field. The only experts on them are them.

ALWAYS REMEMBER.

[–]PickerLeech 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah this is a good point.

I would hate for the sub-reddit to go private. That's just mean.

People are right to throw up terrestrial explanations - it's just a shame that frequently that's the point that discussions appear to end.

So I don't think it's the best thing to attack those that are pooh-poohing the subject, but the best thing to support those that are advancing it. Or at least attempting to.

In other words, become more active in the discussions.

[–]maximinus-thrax 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (27子コメント)

believing in ufos

What does that mean though? To a few people here that seems to mean "UFO's are Aliens, case closed". You can still be very interested in UFO's but be skeptical of what they are.

For the record, I remain of the opinion that there is "something" to the UFO phenomenon, but they are almost certainly not "little green men form a different planet".

[–]laowhoo 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (11子コメント)

No, you were probably down voted for the dogmatic tone, careless generalization, conclusory dismissal, and derogatory phrasing. That might have been the first down vote. The other(s) might have been for your feigned surprise and mock neutrality. In short, you've just come across as uninformed and insincere, and probably as opportunistically off point as this isn't a post about UFO legitimacy and random opinions thereof.

[–]maximinus-thrax 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (8子コメント)

If your point was to back up OP's remarks about negativity in this sub, you've done well.

[–]laowhoo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

You've edited out part of your original post here so my reply no longer makes sense, but my point was clear enough. You asked why you were bein down voted and I told you how your post might have seemed to others. It was a service. Why continue to feign injury?

BTW, there's nuthin precluding an ID hypothesis from also bein an ET hypothesis, or vice versa, since you've actually made clear this ID preference below. But this was never the subject or scope of the thread, which may have also been why you were gettin downvoted. But just mischaracterizing or over-generalizing my reply as mere negativity is neither nuanced nor accurate. Maybe that had sumthin to do with the downvotes--your apparent attempt to use other people's words against them.

[–]maximinus-thrax -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Edited it out because I ended up with more upvotes than downvotes, that edit was only up for about 30 minutes.

there's nuthin precluding an ID hypothesis from also bein an ET hypothesis

I'm not sure this is possible, since part of the ID conjecture is that "the UFO phenomenon" is NOT ET based. In any case, I personally think the ET theory to be highly unlikely, based on the limited evidence we have.

[–]laowhoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not at all. The IDH adherents have generally gotten there first f/ the inadequacy of the ETH (of standard nuts and bolts), having also to acknowledge the anti-physical aspects they've encountered (e.g., Vallee, Skinwalker, and lotsa others). Even Penniston's inclination they "they" are "us" f/ the future requires some version of both ETH and IDH.

For those phenomena which manifest both physical and anti-physical properties, it's as likely that "they" use ID travel to traverse the ET universe as it is that they are simply crossing boundaries b/t dimensions or multiverses. Of course, there's also nothing to preclude that various of these are doing any of these three.

[–]maximinus-thrax 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not at all.

I'm not sure I understand your sentiment. As I've always understood it, ETH = UFO's are physical things from space, IDH = UFO's are not necessarily physical at all. They oppose each other.

Whilst it is possible to hold an opinion, almost all of these conjectures cannot be tested anyway, but my current thinking is that the ETH is wrong.

[–]laowhoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's not a sentiment maximus, itsa confusion which has led various researchers beyond an impossible either/or proposition. Even Ted Phillips, who was recruited by Hynek to conduct strictly physical trace evidence, has had to shift away from the strictly physical hypo based on his 11 years at Marley Woods. In other words, if it were a strictly IDH, then how does anything manifest physically here? Conversely, if they manifest here, what's to prevent them manifesting elsewhere in our universe? Hence both an IDH and ETH, and for those who do propose the IDH, they must still concede that, strictly speaking, our planet would be extra-terrestrial to the travelers. It's like various models in cosmology or inflation theory...there are all sorts of flavors, even among the standard model, but the multiverse models are quickly gaining sway today. Have you read "Dimensions?" Have you considered the "time-travel" hypo? There are so many different sorts of sightings that to say they must all be this or that is, well...truly mere sentiment. I mean, I hate to be obvious, but just becoming visible requires material manifestation.

[–]ASK47 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow. I didn't see any of that in max's posts. Weird.

[–]laowhoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Neither did I necessarily. I was only re-imagining what others may have been seeing in it...somebody said, "belief in UFOs," and max tried to make them pay for it, especially when he pigeon-holed it as "little green men from other planets." It isn't a stretch to read that he was hijacking the OP's original thread for his own purposes, or to infer that he was derogating people who incline toward the ET hypo. Whatever the case, his comments can reasonably be interpreted as a passive-aggressive, off-topic jab to push his own agenda. We look for such in voir dire, and apparently other people saw sumthin that, at the time, had him downvoted to -3. He's since edited the post that prompted these, but only after initially asking, "Why the down votes?" which I tried to answer.

In some ways this can serve as a model of what often happens...maybe the sub needs a sticky for term/phrase definitions, but with interpretations which render the broadest or most neutral meanings rather than the narrowest and most loaded. For instance, "belief in UFOs ... Term of art/common usage, in no wise to be confused with any religious connotation, but simply a concession, at least, that some phenomena remain beyond present understanding and explanation, or an insistence, at most, that there is exhibited some intelligent agency which cannot be man-made..."

[–]Gibson1984[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why not? What gives you so much confidence considering abductees over the past half century have mostly had the same depiction of smaller, usually greyish entities? Are they machines? If so, who built them? Are they just humanoids from other solar systems? Then still, by definition, they're aliens. All the eyewitness testimonies. Are they all in cahoots? Every one of those scared scarred people like Travis Walton or Betty and barney hill just having a giggle?

Doubt it. There's less a chance of that than it being little men of whatever color.

[–]CaerBannog 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

abductees over the past half century have mostly had the same depiction of smaller, usually greyish entities?

Actually, they haven't. The image of the Grey is largely a latter day phenomenon, most prevalent since the late '70s. Before then, UFO occupants took all sorts of forms.

If you study folklore, you'll find lots of linkages with UFO occupant reports and more importantly the kinds of stories in which they appear. It's very important not to take these things at face value, and it is even more important to understand how cultural symbology affects perception and reportage.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point.

[–]maximinus-thrax 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What gives you so much confidence considering abductees over the past half century have mostly had the same depiction of smaller, usually greyish entities?

I don't have "so much confidence". However, I do know that abductees over the past half century have not seen the same things. Examples:

  • Reed family abudction: "manufactured intelligent insect-type being"
  • Moody abduction: "six feet tall, the creatures wore skintight black clothing."
  • Wolski abduction: "tiny, delicate, of small height... they were green"
  • Kahill abduction: "void of color, about 7 feet tall, eyes glowing red."

But you are right, the majority nowadays are the classic greys. But that is certainly not the case of the 1950's, where alien reports were of classic "Tall nordics with blue eyes". So we can see that not all reports are of the same beings, and the majority reports have changed over time.

[–]LiquidCoax 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, weirdly A LOT of close encounters from the 1950's and Early 1960's were with small hairy creatures. Essentially the size of a small chimp and completely covered in fur. Oddly, most of those encounters were pretty violent, examples of either side being the aggressor against the others. I'm guessing it had a lot to do with the culture at the time too. Where as I want nothing more than to communicate, my hardnose, whiskey swilling Irish grandfather probably would have beat it with his belt and try and get money out of it somehow.

[–]maximinus-thrax 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oddly, most of those encounters were pretty violent

Seems to be fairly common among UFO reports. With the exception of a bunch of "space-brother" meetings of the 1950's, a lot of the more complex sightings often seem to scary, stress inducing and sometimes causing pain.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ok, so with all these instances do you believe that none of these stories have truth to them? There are no extraterrestrial pilots to these vessels?

[–]maximinus-thrax 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

do you believe that none of these stories have truth to them?

No, I think that the experiences have some external reason for happening (i.e. not just in the mind of the abductee).

However, I see no particular reason to say that these were all alien beings from a spaceship. Personally I lean towards the interdimensional hypothesis.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I lean that way too, friend. It's a very interesting theory and I feel it makes the most sense. There are even abductees that have mentioned the beings saying they are from other dimensions as well as a lot of unrelated science that compliments the theory in intriguingly coincidental ways.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

but they are almost certainly not "little green men form a different planet".

You were probably downvoted for that bold and baseless statement. That's not opinion based. That's a claim of alleged fact.

[–]maximinus-thrax 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, I did write "I remain of the opinion.....". Whether I am right or wrong is a different thing.

[–]ASK47 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

He said 'I remain of the opinion that there is "something" to the UFO phenomenon, but they are almost certainly not "little green men form a different planet".' Emphasis added.

That is most certainly opinion-based. It says it right there in the sentence I copied and pasted. Quite unfair to misrepresent and bash his statement that way.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He said there is something to it. Meaning anything from secret ops to illuminati or whatever. However, the key words are "certainly not" when referring to "little green men". Certainty is an absolute, not an opinion, and that's the part I was referring to.

[–]ASK47 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

An absolute... of what? I say certainty is a faith-based conviction any way you slice it. Especially when politely prefaced by "almost" and "IMO".

You seem to be saying his claim was presented as an objective fact by saying certainty is an "absolute", but I don't think that's the case. At its worst, it is a little dogmatic, but I still don't see anything he said as anything but polite discourse.

(hope max is not she - if so sorry about my assumptions)

[–]Gibson1984[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

An absolute... of what? I say certainty is a faith-based conviction any way you slice it.

cer·tain·ly ˈsərtnlē adverb undoubtedly; definitely; surely.

synonyms: unquestionably, surely, assuredly, definitely, beyond/without question, without doubt, indubitably, undeniably, irrefutably, indisputably; absolutely

Especially when politely prefaced by "almost" and "IMO".

"Almost certainly" is an oxymoron. Sooooo, yes I'm going to have to say his/her comment deserves a little scutiny.

[–]Jorlen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can you provide more examples of where you find this sub "shitting on an enlightening phenomenon"?

I think this sub hasn't changed, but your expectation (or perception) of it has.

ANY UFO discussion group, be it on reddit or elsewhere will always have contain overactive armchair debunkers and generally rude people who criticize stuff. It's kind of the point. Beyond all that noise though, I like it here; just have to be good at shrugging said noise off and extract what you're here for.

BTW - Why are you here? Asking honestly. What are your expectations?

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

ANY UFO discussion group, be it on reddit or elsewhere will always have contain overactive armchair debunkers and generally rude people who criticize stuff.

That's what I'm trying to address. Maybe raise some awareness so people use the upvote button where it's deserved, debunking statement or otherwise, and not the downvote button so much, unless it's warranted.

It's kind of the point.

No its not. The point is to share information and have healthy discourse and community troubleshooting sessions in a sort of peer review among like minded people. Not to be a cunt.

Why are you here?

Because I've always had an interest in this field and I browse reddit often. This is a sub dedicated to the subject I'm intrigued by, and it just happens to be part of reddit which I frequent, so I subscribed. It's interesting. I enjoy it. What I don't enjoy is the sometimes shitty culture here. So I made a post about my dislikes.

Can you provide more examples of where you find this sub "shitting on an enlightening phenomenon"?

Gimme a bit.

[–]Jorlen 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This sort of ... field or material will always attract more cuntish? (or cunty?) people.

I'll recall something Jacques Vallee said in one of his books, which he wrote in the early 60s I believe. He mentioned people who discuss UFOs will often get really nasty and start yelling at each other and it amounts to nothing. Even people he respected fell into this.

I've been thinking of that a lot, and why this subject seems to draw out so much hate and spite. And then it clicked in my head: it comes down to challenging someone's beliefs. You see, nothing in this field is concrete. It's all up in the air. So everyone is running around, getting pulled deeper in the rabbit hole and trying to figure it out. We all eventually fall into one of the silos; be it the extraterrestrial hypothesis or other such things to pin it on. It's human nature. I have been fighting very hard to stay neural on this; I do believe there IS something to this phenomena but I don't know what, and refuse to pin it on anything until there's solid evidence. The kicker? There will NEVER BE ANY SOLID EVIDENCE. How am I coming to this conclusion? it's been over 70 years! 70 years of having bright minds study this stuff, spend THEIR LIVES studying it. Some of them literally going mad and killing themselves in the process!

It's like discussing religion or politics, but sometimes even worse.

Get used to it, man. These factors will follow the UFO phenomenon anywhere; it's just a matter time before it happens. The more passionate the people discussing the topic, the more cunt-like? they will become! I guarantee it. This sub hasn't changed and no MOD's efforts will permanently alter this. It is what it is.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn... never thought of it that way. Thanks! That makes a lot of sense.

[–]Hizz3r 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I find this hilarious because I said the same thing out loud right before I clicked on this thread. This is my first post here in r/UFO after lurking for a month, but I have to comment because I feel the same.

While I'm quite new to this sub, I applaud actual discussions about UFO's as apposed to having every possible conversation derailed with one comment, "idiot, that's a balloon". Until I witness an event beyond any plausible explanation, I will remain in skepticism like others but that should not limit intellectual discussions and constant debunking upon every single image/video.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Exactly! That shit is lazy and unproductive. What gets me is the confidence in which it is posted, usually with some smug, condescending undertone. Gtfo with that shit... especially considering most the time there is no source for their claim. Just a bold, bullshit claim and the upvotes fall in line because God forbid anyone disagree and get all those downvotes.

It's getting ridiculously predictable and becoming a parody in itself. Mods, pls halp.

[–]DiogenesofSC 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree; however that is just reddit in general. People are easily drawn to explanations that don't require them to think heavily. Cognitive Dissonance

[–]horse_architect -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Until I witness an event beyond any plausible explanation, I will remain in skepticism like others but that should not limit intellectual discussions and constant debunking upon every single image/video.

This sounds contradictory to me. "Beyond any plausible explanation" means we should examine the plausible explanations, yes? If a video / photo is consistent in every way with being Chinese lanterns, isn't it worth pointing that out?

[–]Solarslave 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

We're all interested in this subject but bring real evidence. If it doesn't stand then move on and focus on the hard facts. There is something going on, but chasing hoaxes & explainable events is a waste of time. Stop bitchin & focus on solid cases. Some of the shit on here is just click bait.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with that. Again though, when something as compelling as cow mutilations is brought to the table and one of the first comments that were being upvoted until I said anything about it to the contrary was:

I really like the idea that cattle mutilations are samples being taken from the population of cattle to secretly test for food-chain related issues...be it virus, poison, or other issue. However, the strangeness of the cuts and how the cows are found is puzzling.

That pisses me off. That's a bullshit theory and there's a million reasons why. I state my reasons in the thread and you can find it in my OP text of you care to see them. Point is I'm sick of LITERALLY anything other than ufos being the correct answer no matter how laughable the theory. Instead of challenging theories, people on this sub upvote bullshit blindly and most the time when someone has a decent rebuttal, it's downvoted without reason.

[–]CaerBannog 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've had comments downvoted as soon as I post them, within seconds, as if by a bot or shill.

Reddit vote algorithm most likely. I very much doubt even the most committed loonies are sitting here downvoting submissions as soon as they appear. Although anything is possible with UFO fans.

Can we at least agree that the evidence something outside of this earth or dimension is visiting our skies, livestock, nuclear bases, and crop fields??

I'm pretty sure that almost everyone here agrees that there is something anomalous going on in some UFO or UAP report cases.

I think it is a very good thing that we don't think every report is anomalous, because the research shows that only a very small percentage is unexplainable.

I'm losing faith in it.

I nearly have a few times, but for the opposite reasons; people posting any old shit without the slightest bit of analysis or research. But someone - I forget who, but they are very bright - said that we here have our own form of peer review which is very much more potent than you'll find in other forums, where the true believers validate each other and those that think critically are shunned. This made me feel a lot better. It gave me hope. Hope that we can actually discover something and not fall into the uncritical religious darkness that has hindered UFO research for nigh on 50 years.

It's a good thing that we filter out the explainable. Because we are going to find the really good stuff. The stuff that can't be explained.

Sure, there are jokes about weather balloons and swamp gas, but that is an old UFOlogy in-joke.

What you must understand is, yes, the truly anomalous factor among UFO reports is real. But it is very, very, vanishingly rare. Most of what you are going to see is just noise or misreporting. We have to be patient, out here on the fringe.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you. I appreciate the sentiment in your comment, and you bring up a good perspective. Maybe I've grown cynical in some ways as well. I'll work on that and try to look past the bullshit because you are right, there is a lot of good here. I've just found it to be fleeting lately.

[–]timmy242 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To tag on to Caer's comment, you also need to realize that any good, useful UFO research or thought must have skepticism (not debunking) as a cornerstone of core critical thinking. It is important to understand that more than 90% of UFO/UAP phenomena is explainable and have prosaic explanations. It stands to reason then that more than 90% of posts here are easily explainable too. I don't know too many debunkers who stick around this sub for long, but that there are a core group of solid UFO critical thinkers is a blessing. UFO, put simply, does not equal aliens. Researching UFO phenomena does not require one.lick.of.belief, either. There's nothing to believe, and UFOs are a scientific reality. What that reality is is anyone's guess...which is why many of us stay around this sub after years and years of mostly explainable videos, pics, and stories. Don't lose hope, however, and always think critically.

[–]Jorlen 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been hanging around this sub for a few months and I mostly see a healthy dose of skepticism. There are a lot of members who are quite good at identifying a lot of what gets posted here.

Many of us know there is something to his phenomenon. We just don't know what it is. We're no closer to finding out now than we were 70 years ago. Doesn't mean we'll accept any potato video as hard evidence, though.

[–]foobastion 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I disagree with you. I think that you might be trying to get something out of this sub that it's not designed for. This is not a paranormal support sub. This sub is about documenting and identifying UFOs. Quite frankly I am tired of seeing all of the junk posts about aliens, and I am glad they are downvoted or removed. Yes, it's almost impossible to separate the topics of UFOs and aliens, but cattle mutilations, crop circles, and alien theories are really tangents and not the desired main content.

There have been some great posts and discussions on this sub and some real instances where we have taken UFO sightings and turned them into plausible IFOs. Yes, there are minimal effort thinkers here. Both believers and skeptics alike. It's easy to go back in the history and find posts about how a particular video or image is absolute proof of aliens. Only to find out later that it was a hoax, a quad copter, a fallen satellite, a camera anomaly, or a reflection. My own personal judgements have changed while I've been reading this sub. Why? because I've been wrong many times.

[–]Parrisgg 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am so tired of people thinking everything is a drone. Quadcopters can do a lot, but they cannot do everything.

[–]iHopeAliensReplaceUs 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

who says all drones are quadcopters?

[–]Parrisgg 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They aren't. But most of the maneuvers that we see ufos do normal drones can't do, only quad copters. And while quad copters can do these movements, it doesn't mean we should classify every ufo as quad copters.

[–]comrade_zhukov 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mufon report, Phoenix lights and battle of Las Angeles are enough to suggest the phenomenon is "real" enough to be taken seriously, and by seriously I mean reasonable public resources and scientific method as opposed to the shitty veil of secrecy and character assassination currently employed.

[–]Crimfants 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes there is plenty of doubt. Doubt is healthy. Embrace it. Whenever someone declares that have The Truth about UFOs, I know I can ignore that person.

Look, we know that most sighting reports are explainable as mundane phenomena, and that includes much of what is presented on this sub. Reality.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Whenever someone declares that have The Truth about UFOs, I know I can ignore that person.

So you just automatically know that anyone with this claim is a liar? Truth is you know nothing. Doubt is not healthy; research and open mindedness without bias is. You're supposed to form an opinion through investigation, not have your mind made up immediately.

That type of thinking is lazy and unproductive.

[–]Crimfants 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, not automatic at all. We all have to develop filters - little heuristics that help us focus our limited resources where they do the most good. It's called bounded rationality. From long experience, I have a very low expectation of anything helpful from dogmatists of any stripe, so I move on. Feel free to make your own judgments.

I am plenty open minded, but open mindedness without doubt is just folly. Or more likely, mental illness.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry for the confusion. You said you "ignore" people that get tangled in your natural filter. Typically ignore means to not listen to. Which is opposite open-mindedness.

[–]Crimfants -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not an opposite at all. You have to ignore most inputs. We all do it all the time, mostly without thinking about it. I've found that it helps to think about it.

[–]PickerLeech 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm relatively new to this sub-reddit, but I agree.

If someone relays a sighting any of us could throw up a potential terrestrial based explanation, and I don't think that it's bad to do that - but I do think it discourages discourse and further discussions.

At the same time, I've seen many discussions of valid, what I would call interesting points, be largely ignored.

This is, as far as I can see, common and somewhat normal in any discussion forums.

[–]DineLointHarpie 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm convinced the "downvote brigades" are sometimes the work of individuals with multiple accounts. It's just the way it happens, the downvotes all come in at once.

[–]tomsonxxx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm convinced the "downvote brigades" are sometimes the work of individuals with multiple accounts

"Team Bannog" = "CaerBannog", "god8myhomework", "solarslave" and some others. Same trolling or some sort of other "motivation" which is behind this.

Technics:

  • Establish a mythos in a forum. Someone "who knows the case". Who seems (or really is) into the topic "CaerBannog". This is the king. The kings work is to rule as an authority. To shine as a authority. The king, as the ruler, has to be protected.

  • Establish "a defensive team" like "solarslave","god8myhomework" which attacks every user who attacks "the king" or who has an opinion which the team does not accept. Goal is to intimdate other users and opinons and to intimidate. This "guards" also have the duty to repeatedly note and writing about that "<insertnameoftheking> is an earned User authority, who dares to question him?". Goal is to raise the credibility of the king and to show other normal users that others "respect" him.

  • Create "throw away" Users who posting some absurd things (one time posting). They get attacked immediatly by 1) and 2) in order to raise the credibility of 1) and 2) and to play a charade. The "Throw away" Users deletes himself after this immediatly

  • When one user is busted you see quickly the next day a new user which has similar behavior.

Goal is either trolling or to run and control a forum (motivation is debatable). It's some sort of game theory. It's obviously that in a lot of cases "TeamBannog" (or the "King" user) knows about what he speaks in the UFO Topic. So i doubt it's only trolling. There's more to it.

20 years in the internet and i have not seen such a "trolling" on this high level. I'm very thankful to see such a thing "in the wild" to study it. I came here for UFOs but i will stay to study this behavior, it's absolutly amazing in regards to its psychological background :)

-> https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/2ldsws/request_at_mod_user_with_multiple_accounts/

[–]HailBopp 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have long been irritated by CaerBannog's misleading, misguiding, dogmatic comments.

Thanks for the information you provided.

[–]DineLointHarpie 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

One of the annoying things with the pseudo-skeptics/debunkers is that they're so invested in being right that they're unable to honestly evaluate any case. They'll often say that they would love nothing more if there was a reality to all of this but that's bullshit, because if there is something going on it would upset their firmly held belief system. They're like religious fundamentalists in this regard.

[–]HailBopp 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've posted under a different account.

I believe there are some people here with a genuine interest. I don't believe the comments section will ever look any different from what it would be like if you tried to have a serious conversation in real life. In fact, if you understand certain things about the genre, it's probably worse here than it is in real life.

There is stuff here worth picking through, even if many of the posts and comments suck, and even if the same old "trusted, classic commenters" always show up with what seems like misleading comments.

I've given up on hoping to enhance the overall quality of comments and posts - for now, anyway.

I see no reason to NOT believe there are others who quietly visit the forum and appreciate the same useful content and comments that I do.

I believe that too much of the quality gets drowned out to the point where someone looking for serious information probably won't find it without serious, continuous digging. I think the whole genre, due to its nature and participants, is perma-fogged to those who don't dig enough and notice the key information. I don't believe there's really anything I can do about that, but I still come to the forum - and I believe others here share this notion.

[–]killfluffy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP - I can't agree that there is evidence that something outside of this Earth or dimension is visiting our skies, livestock, nuclear bases, and crop fields. I might believe this to be the case, but I do not know it to be the case. I have seen absolutely nothing that conclusively proves this, and this is a fact that aggravates me.

I have seen things that defy explanation, and those experiences are what led me to this sub, but I cannot state conclusively what they are or are not. I don't know what they were. I like to think that they were physical vehicles filled with ET's, as my healthy upbringing mired in sci-fi suggests - as I want them to actually be vehicles filled with ET's, but the fact of the matter is that I don't know that to be the case. While I am open to discussing that which I believe vs. that which I know, the distance between those two points is vast.

To be quite frank, I see a lot of actual junk posted in this sub - stuff that is so incredibly badly faked or so easily identifiable (like the guy who posted the kiteboarding kites and identified them as "crescent objects"), and things that have been beaten to death over and over and over again.

I've seen my share of drones, flares, chinese lanterns, photos of lens dirt or lens element anomalies, time lapse photos of conventional aircraft in flight after dark - we've even seen photos of running lights on yachts after dark on this sub. And yes, these things are easily explainable. Yes, many of them deserve to be downvoted to oblivion without mercy (although some are still just so interesting that, while easily explainable, deserve the upvote).

But then we've seen things posted here that are remarkable. One example that comes immediately to mind was the object in mid air on a Mars photo hosted on a .gov domain. Another were the objects seen through those high end night vision goggles moving erratically at very high altitude. Yet another was that object that came across that Florida highway. The truly remarkable posts are far less common, as they should be, as one would expect them to be.

While it's important to point a finger at people who will claim to have debunked anything regardless of the validity of their debunking, it's also important to take a good long look at people who will look at a smudge on a camera lens and declare that aliens have landed.

The thing about Ufology is that it has attracted a wide array of people. Unfortunately, it has attracted many fraudsters, hoaxsters and nut-cases who have thoroughly debunked it as a proper field of study to the point where the only way it will likely ever regain credibility is if aliens landed on the White House lawn and brought the cure for cancer as a housewarming gift instead of a tray of brownies.

Considering this, above all else, (credibility), I would strongly caution everyone here to not pay attention to the upvotes and downvotes on comments or posts on this sub. Instead, look at each post and decide for yourself what you're actually seeing. Consider the offered explanations. Given everyone here is a stranger, decide for yourself what you believe. Avoid falling into the trap of explaining things away as well as the trap of assigning credibility where it is not due and believing in hoaxes. Arriving at your own conclusions on the subject matter addressed in this sub, or really anything in life, is critical.

[–]ASK47 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm fairly new here, and to Reddit in general, and keep seeing similar complaints. I must be missing something, because I don't see any evidence of this.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Either search by controversial posts, search through the history, or stick around. You'll see it.

[–]ASK47 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

So, there hasn't been any of it lately? Hopefully things are improving then!

[–]Gibson1984[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

[–]ASK47 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, please - I actually meant what I said. I will endeavor to place smilies and other cues in actual sarcastic posts. But I don't do that often. It won't help this sub to be sarcastic much.

If I have to sort or search through history, then you're saying it used to be like this, but not so much at the moment. Which is coincidentally when I started reading it, it seems.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry for jumping to conclusions then. Hopefully it will get better. I think the best course of action would be to practice healthy debate and challenge anyone with bold statements to produce bold supporting evidence. The ks for contributing to the convo!

[–]laowhoo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd agree, but maybe only conditionally. It's the nature of the beast to elude any type of consensus reality, and let's be honest, we're programmed to believe that reality is comprised of objective truths which must hold the same for everything and everyone everywhere and always. Failing that, people seem to have precious little to agree upon. Worse still maybe is when some feel the need to package the phenomena into currently acceptable modalities, the nuts and bolters who want science but have to disregard all the anti-physical aspects of reports. And on it goes.

Which brings me to something I've been wondering lately...except for those of us who've had these anomalous experiences, why are the rest of us interested? Are we masochists? Bored? Do UFOs maybe restore our need for a universe that isn't just explained away, that's still bigger than us? I wish I knew why the hell I ever got started...don't even remember when it happened or how...but I know that a lot of what people have seen and experienced isn't what it gets reduced to by people who weren't there.

But you're right. I've been working my way through a 136-page thread at ATS, and after 18 pages I've yet to see any nastiness or thoughtless dismissiveness. Not even any sarcasm, nevermind ridicule. Everyone posting there is engaged, almost as if it's just a matter of staying on point, but to do that it probably helps to have members who think there's a point to begin with. And those who don't simply don't seem to post there, which seems the most natural thing in the world. Why that wouldn't be true here makes me wonder about the caliber of reddit generally, unless it's something about having the "fringe" leanings of the entire ATS site as a starting point. But still...even here, why come to this sub if just to derogate, preach against, dismiss, or set conditions upon something which by its very nature sometimes seems to exist only to confound and defy?

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know that reddit has had issues with disinformation and shills in the past. I'd imagine there is a level of that here and that people in this sub aren't as inclined as they are at ATS to call them out and evolve their board through that method essentially cleansing themselves of the burden that is the douchebaggery we see here from time to time.

Just my theory.

[–]theblindelephant 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Op, you forgot 'swamp gas'.

[–]Mechanikal 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've said it before in a similar thread. Everything posted is shit on. Its either too shakey, too blurry, or too far away. And if it happens to be a really solid shot, well then its Photoshop or CGI. There could be a 1080p video of a UFO in someone's yard making cows levitate, and people would complain it looks too good or is obviously fake.

I've read things about people who are paid disinformationists, whose sole job is to get on sub's/boards/pages like this and immediately discredit, subvert and generally shit on whatever is posted. Take it with a grain of salt.

[–]fexfexfex 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

this subreddit is thoroughly manipulated on an industrial scale. along with a whole string of other subreddits, if not all of reddit. do not believe that what you see here today is the same reddit of 2007. most people commenting are no longer, what you or i could call, normal casual users.

[–]Chrythes 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are giving this subreddit and reddit in general too much credit.

[–]tomsonxxx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What do you mean with "mainpulated on an industrial scale"? As a moderator are you able to see ex. from which IP Ranges users posting and things like that?

[–]Gibson1984[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your comment being downvoted without reason is exactly what I'm talking about. You asked an honest question and some asshole somewhere decided "fuck that question bullshit" for literally no real reason. Shit gets annoying doesn't it??

I don't have an answer to your question though, but I'll upvote because I too am inclined to ask. That's how this process should work, dammit!

[–]tomsonxxx 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dont give too much about votes in this reddit, it leads to nowhere. There's is a guy here which has a personal issue with me, he is using multiple accounts and everybody knows who he is (--> http://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/2l7mar/mj12_member_vannevar_bush_fbi_file_released/ )...so probably he is voting

I'm sure he's is not the only one (regardless of the their stance on the topic itselve) with multiple accounts here for trolling or whatever reasons..

[–]laowhoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have a new theory, and I just got it from here

http://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/2ld7qv/is_there_a_difference_between_what_is_filmed_and/

A brand new post that asks the simple question of whether there's possible discrepancy b/t what's viewed and what's photographed. Seems reasonable enough. I suggest additionally that there seem to sometimes be inhibitions to even photographing the sightings, and that people often report such, and express my bewilderment at there being no photographic evidence of the Phoenix Lights...

The first reply to come down the pike is that, somehow due to optics generally, there could be no quality pics of the Phoenix Lights. This is either deliberate obfuscation or genuine confusion, right?

Wrong. There's another possibility. I pictured a mom or dad trying to educate their 10-year-old, and the homeschooled "science" lesson of the day is, "Let's go to a reddit UFO sub thread and teach the poor misguided miscreants some science."

You just never know, but man it sure seems to happen here a lot.

[–]velezaraptor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

With new editing technology and the arrogant, narcissistic, introverts; THIS will continue to happen with each new post. Good Talk. To ignore a potential farce allows you to shut off the input to the innocent subconscious mind, keeping consciousness more exposed to reality. Those who have access to a developed subconscious, can allow all content in and still maintain a firm grasp on what's real.

[–]sommervr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's just disinformation. The secondary consideration is to destroy communities where meaningful discussion can take place. Sounds like they are winning.

[–]WonTonBurritoMeals 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its the CIA coming in to lay a smoke screen and make us bicker with each other in stead of a logical and thoughtful discussion.

[–]bigtaterman 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Drone lanterns.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Swamp balloons

[–]ASK47 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Venus shrimp

[–]Relevant_Truth 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can we not turn r/UFOs/ into a huge "I WANT TO BELIEVE, in wilful ignorance" buffet like every other major UFO forum.

OP wants for us all to be get around the campfire and share cosy "kids gazing at the stars" theories about how it might be transdimensional demonic entities visiting us, and how they are tied to the ancient nephilim, atlanteans and hybrid grey who are walking amongst us.

Every discussion has to be nice, friendly and supportive of whatever claim was made, every abduction/UFO/Gray/Timetravel/X/ claim has to be considered, accepted and entertained. Nobody is wrong. Everything is cosy all theories are facts even if they contradict each other.

Who cares if someone is "wrong", as long as we keep the ball rolling and we keep talking and talking and keep making each other yearning for more theories?

Can we not do that? Can this be the only UFO webpage that forgoes that at least a little bit?

I'm waiting for OP to slip up and start religiously name dropping some deranged author who claimed he was visited by his future self from planet X, or some other.

Make your own reddit page where people can constantly claim and build upon even the most inane theories to no end.

To this I'll add that I've been browsing these kind of topics for well over a decade now. It's just sickening that I keep seeing grown people stoop to these lows all to defend their own little theories or lunartic authors which they somehow got attached to and therefore are very important and infallible.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I said. Thanks for clarifying.

[–]CopperTorus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a refreshing post to read, I thank you Gibson 1984 for posting it.

From my personal experience, I do know, for a fact, there are inter dimensional shifts and many (most) are unaware. The thing is that ego gets in the way because everyone has to hang onto a reality that they anchor themselves to--and to yank that chain, yanks their chain. The key to inter dimensional awareness and slipping in and out is to be completely ego-free. There has to be no sense of ownership, but pure openness.

As for proving this to others, I have attempted several avenues. Pictures have the ability to be photoshopped and this is what causes any reliable photos to be "debunked". Keep in mind too, the meaning of "debunked"--for many are unaware. For example, if I were to show you a video of a inter dimensional being or "craft", and I stated: "Here is an inter dimensional craft moving above the oak trees." All someone would have to do is debunk a stated "fact" about the video. So someone debunks my video. It is declared "debunked"--now no one will look at it with discerning eyes because it is debunked. BUT all that was debunked was not the craft but the trees--they were not oak, they were sycamore trees. But it doesn't matter. Forever it is debunked. This a fictional example.

[–]Spacebotzero -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wow. I'm famous. I had no idea my theory would hit a nerve.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't flatter yourself. You were just the icing on the cake.

[–]Spacebotzero -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The best part!

[–]Gibson1984[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

;)

[–]thereisnosuchthing -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because this subreddit is filled with a bunch of people who venture here slightly off their beaten path of normal social media, whose brains and minds have been filled with the 'mainstream' officially-authorized and distributed social narrative since they first began understanding language. As such, they think they're being intelligent, and of course we all know that the only point of social media is to make yourself look good to yourself through your own perceptions of yourself and others' perceptions of you.

[–]NoGodizGood -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

i gives a shit what the clowns say. until your ass is standing there saying "wtf?" i care not if you think its real.

this is the internet and youre always going to find people who are skeptical. probably the same way im skeptical about ghosts and demons and shit like that.

ive never seen an alien, and i wish i could, but ive seen UFOs on 4 occasions and its an awesome feeling.

drive on gentlemen, drive on.

[–]Gibson1984[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for your contribution.

[–]opiatekingman -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

with all of the space out in the solar system, people are really just in denial or just don't want to atleast give the thought a chance. millions and millions of earth like planets and just the sheer size of space itself and people really don't believe that something like another civilization can exist?

[–]atworksonospacedicks -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't buy this post... your skepticism is nothing but a Chinese drone flaring over a shrimp boat.

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (16子コメント)

You know why this subreddit is going to shit? because ufology is going to shit. everyone is all about aliens in this field. humanity is getting too bored for this bull. we can't see nor contact them yet we are all so EXCITED. GET SOME FUNDING AND FIND US SOME ALIENS. if not, i suggest you realize, as we can see how the last 2 decades have gone, that there is nothing you can do for humanity by discussing ufos on this internet. on the other hand, trillions of dollars are unaccounted for. maybe everyone should be looking into that. that's why this shit is downvoted.

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

trillions of dollars are unaccounted for. maybe everyone should be looking into that.

It's possible to have more than one interest.

this field of study is going to shit. everyone is all about aliens in this field. humanity is getting too bored. we can't see nor contact them yet we are all so EXCITED. GET SOME FUNDING AND BRING US SOME ALIENS. if not, i suggest you realize that there is nothing you can do for humanity by discussing ufos on the internet.

This is a potential source for intriguing and thought provoking discourse concerning a phenomena you don't normally see discussed anywhere else. If it weren't for forums like this I personally wouldn't be as informed as I am, so use it as the tool it is. Just because tabloids are in line at the supermarket doesn't mean you have to buy them and believe them. Same goes for sensationalized content in any other subject, including ufos. People try to make a buck out of everything. You have to wade through the bullshit.

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

no how is it impossible to be uninterested in you being a slave?

[–]Gibson1984[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I don't understand what you're saying/asking

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

that is why i am here. no one does understand how to use their mind well enough to be here talking as much shit as they do. since you are listening now, i would like to try to get you to understand what happens for people when we take 3 trillion dollars from 300 million people...

  1. when people do not see this as an issue, they (guvment) have done their job well

  2. when people see this as an issue, but do not have a fire to even discuss it more than (possible) fictional stories of the past, then they (guvment) have done an extremely exceptional job

  3. when you take 10 dollars from every man, woman, and child in the united states, and do not give them something for it before they die, that is robbery.

  4. we are not slaves, but we feel as slaves did back in the day. because we feel as if we would die for what we want, but are scared, we will all create a paradigm for that. this means we are unable to act on how we feel because we cannot fathom the consequences with an intelligent group mind. people, as a whole, do not have this. we have to have leaders. this has turned out very unfortunate.

  5. we have regressed so hard for the past 10 years as an economy and no one can really figure out much why. it is because 90% are on the internet trying to learn what we may come to a conclusion on today. we aren't as one anymore.

  6. all that is, comes down to one thing. communion through cooperation. we see all of this sequence and wonder what the hell it all means. we don't stand up for ourselves anymore. we have the worst education system in the world for it's funding. they have done an extremely exceptional job. they want you here on the internet for the next decade again so they can buy more time for themselves. everyone cannot be happy on earth when they have everyone else's knowledge. if everyone knew what everyone else knew then, we would all be very modest, and all be very well off, and healthy of mind, and body, but look at us!

  7. our lives are too short to waste 2, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 years on researching anything secret. our creativity is very underwhelming, and we are ready for it. we are trying to work for it, but we are still not equal.

am i getting anywhere?

[–]pasher71 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

and this is jackass

[–]fortean 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

am i getting anywhere?

No idea what you're talking about in the context of this subreddit really...

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

why are you talking to me then?

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

There's a sub that specifically pertains to this subject: /r/conspiracy as well as others. This is /r/ufos, so we generally talk about ufo related content. You won't find basket weaving in /r/basketball ; same goes for what you're talking about won't be found here.

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

this was in the news you crazy person! how is it more of a conspiracy than aliens? in all that is, i am having trouble comprehending what the universe is trying to tell me right now.. should i just kill myself? why are you not realizing that 3 trillion missing dollars probably goes into a lot of ufos?

[–]Gibson1984[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Do you have proof to support this claim? I am well aware the people of the world are being robbed on a grand scale. A lot of it goes toward black ops projects and black list contract companies; you're probably right. Why don't you start a thread on the subject if you're so passionate about it and include some of your evidence for us to review? So long as it applies to the subs rules and deals with, in some way, unidentified flying objects, what's stopping you? This isn't the thread to discuss those matters, so make one!

[–]MAD_OR_NAW -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

i think i'd be the next steven greer. thanks. what else should i fucking answer? america is as fucked as your comment. nothing can be done by one person without support.

but yeah i'm working on funding because that's all i know

[–]Gibson1984[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks for your informative and well articulated contributions to my thread. Have a great day.