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I'm from [Israel], as me everything! (self.AskACountry)

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[–]visvis 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (19子コメント)

What do you think about the Israel/Palestine conflict? Do you see a possibility for a solution?

Does the risk attacks make you feel unsafe and/or avoid public areas?

What do you think of the blockade of Gaza?

As an outsider it is hard to understand why Netanyahu keeps alienating his foreign allies (even the US) by proposing building new settlements. Why does he do this and do most Israelis support it?

[–]awakehope[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (18子コメント)

  1. It is unfortunate. We've tried to make peace with them for a long time but it ended up in Jews getting slaughtered. Even the extreme left-wing people here start do disbelieve in any future peace treaty.

  2. Yep, actually, funny thing is, I've just talked about this with my Mom and Dad. Even though we have an army, police, "safest place for Jews" and etc, it's bullshit. You can drive a road and get stoned, you can walk in the Old City and get stabbed, you can drive back home and get shot... Unfortunately it isn't and it never was safe to Jews here, our government is afraid of the UN and other countries so they don't protect us as they should. For example: Right now Arabs are rioting in Jerusalem (Our capital) and they throw stones, Molotov cocktails, pipe-bombs on busses, homes and etc but the police can't do a thing because we have balls-less govenment... So yeah...

  3. Well, I'm 100% sure that there are innocent civilians in Gaza, but, at the begging there was no blockade on Gaza. After the Hitnatkut Hamas, who constantly killed civilians, got elected by the Gazans and took control of it so we had to put a blockade in order to stop them from attacking us. It's unfortunate, but without the blockade many Israeli citizens would've been killed.

4.Well, I agree that Netanyahu is kinda dumb, also Liberman, but - We've already stopped building once and nothing happened. So why should we stop again? Why won't they stop building too? Look, the situation here is super complicated. I believe that Israel is my land, why should I stop from building if doing it once didn't help and they kept attacking us? Also, returning to the 67' borders will only impose a threat on us, think what would happen if ISIS will get inside Samaria? We've tried giving away land to them but it only ended badly like in Gaza

[–]Mr_Strangelove_MSc 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I don't want to come out as a dick, but in some way, this is also that place for debate. And by announcing the country you come from, you kind of exposed yourself, right? ;)

It is unfortunate. We've tried to make peace with them for a long time

Israel has never seriously considered peace on the basis recognized by international law (and the ICJ ruling), and the international community (i.e., 2 States on the 1967 borders, ending of the colonization, and a just settlement of the refugee problem). Never. Look up history books. Another question may be asked: what is the current proposal by the Israeli government for the peace solution? Do you know? No, and nobody does, because the Netanyahu government does not have one. They just check the proposals made by the Americans and the PO, and decide whether to accept or reject it; generally the later.

but it ended up in Jews getting slaughtered.

I don't know why you are making a causal relation between the peace process and Jews getting slaughtered. I would honestly would like to know what you are basing this assumption on.

For example: Right now Arabs are rioting in Jerusalem (Our capital) and they throw stones, Molotov cocktails, pipe-bombs on busses, homes and etc but the police can't do a thing because we have balls-less govenment... So yeah...

balls-less government

So what would you like to do? Shoot the masses? Seriously, the current uprising in Jerusalem has to do with being fed-up of the colonization and the constant human right abuses the Palestinian endure. It's not exactly fair to complain about their pity uprising means with what the means of the Israelis: destroying houses, expropriations, mass administrative incarcerations, the Wall, absence of liberty of movement. What the Palestinians want is freedom. Give it to them: oppression is not the correct way to solve these things.

After the Hitnatkut Hamas, who constantly killed civilians, got elected by the Gazans and took control of it so we had to put a blockade in order to stop them from attacking us. It's unfortunate, but without the blockade many Israeli citizens would've been killed.

This is correct. It's not that I feel that I know better so I should say it, but if I'm criticizing, I better recognize what I agree with. Nevertheless, it's important to remember the devastating humanitarian consequences of the blockade, and the almost insignificant deaths in the Israeli part. Not to mention the recent month-long massacre in Gaza. So maybe the Israelis are exaggerating the Gazan danger?

Which of course doesn't exclude the responsibility of the Hamas and its authoritarian regime for the fate of the Palestinians in Gaza.

We've already stopped building once and nothing happened.

You don't stop building and expect something to "happen". You stop building because it's not your land, you don't have the right to build there, because it compromises the peace process, and it encourages Palestinian resistance, period.

I believe that Israel is my land, why should I stop from building if doing it once didn't help and they kept attacking us?

It's questionnable whether the West Bank and East Jerusalem is truly "your" land. It was conquered during the 1967 war and has been colonized ever since. I don't want make "legalism", but conquest is not a acceptable way of acquiring territory under international law. Palestinian villages have been destroyed, families have been expropriated, pasts have been erased. It is Palestinian Land.

Also, returning to the 67' borders will only impose a threat on us, think what would happen if ISIS will get inside Samaria?

So you prefer to actually oppress an entire people whose land you conquered, so that you can protect yourself from a potential danger? Let me tell you this: ISIS will pop up in the West Bank one day or the other because terrorism is precisely born under oppression - it's an extreme form of resistance nurtured by religious fanatism. And fanatism only appears when one does not have anything to hold on to than religion. The Palestinians are slowly radicalizing themselves, and that is not good for Israel either.

We've tried giving away land to them but it only ended badly like in Gaza

First of all, the "Land for Peace" policy was never fully implemented, and, again, I don't see how you the second part follows. It's just not backed up by historical evidence.

[–]Mossyiscracked 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

You're dead right. It's a genocide that the world is witnessing Israel inflict on the Palestinian people, and everybody is afraid to speak out for fear of being labelled anti-Semitic for disagreeing with the Israeli State.

Objection is not based on a racist hatred of the Jewish people, rather the racist, supremacist state that claims to represent the Jewish people as a whole and perpetrates the same crimes of ghettoising, marginalizing, dehumanizing, and exterminating that the Nazis used on the Jewish people.

Supremacy is wrong at any level, we're all running this rat race together.

[–]Renownify 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How can they preach love - yet fight each other holding guns.

[–]Mr_Strangelove_MSc 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

state that claims to represent the Jewish people as a whole

I'm a Joo myself, and I think you've expressed it correctly. The responsibility also lies in the Jewish communities and organizations around the world who have never made the slightest effort to distance themselves, let alone criticize the Israeli governments.

[–]awakehope[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

נו... עוד אוטו-אנטישמי. תמיד דפקתם את העם שלכם. האנטישמי הכי גדול היה יהודי לשעבר. ברכות.

[–]visvis 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is what OP is saying according to Google Translate:

Well ... another auto-anti-Semite. Always knock your people. The biggest anti-Semite was a former Jew. Greetings.

What you don't seem to understand is that it is possible to be opposed to the policies of Netanyahu's Israel without being an anti-semite.

[–]awakehope[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Genocide? Give me a break. I'm not even going to answer it.

[–]Mossyiscracked 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't expect you to see it that way, you are from Israel. It is hard to see past your own state's propaganda. The successful state has its population constantly under threat from the "enemy within" in order to achieve obedience and compliance. The state as a structure is inherently evil, not just Israel, but all. Realising that is the first step to personal liberation, and then you can see past the lies your politicians tell you.

And while critiquing the use of the word genocide, look at the numbers of deaths comparatively and quotes from Israeli politicians. They see the Palestinians as lesser people, less entitled to a life than them. They don't see it as genocide, rather a necessary eradication of pests.

[–]awakehope[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'll answer to each and every quote -

  1. That's not true. We've tried so many times and it all ended up with Jews being murdered. I'll come back with a list.

  2. Oslo - Suicide Bombing. Hitnatkut - Rockets. Freezing the building in 2009 - Jews getting killed. 1929 - During the division process, the mufti of Jerusalem, Haj-Amin El-Husseini says "Everyone who kills Jews - Gets his place in Heaven", Jews getting murderd. 1936 - Jews getting murdered, though the Arabs should've got almost absolute control of Israel. Again, 1936, Peel Commission - Jews getting murdered. 1947 - Two states solution is accepted in the UN, again - Jews getting murdered the start of "Milhement HaAtzmaut" and since then constant murders of Jews and war between the Arab nation and us.

  3. Well, if someone will try to kill me I'll definitely shoot him. Do you support the killing of innocent civilians? The Wall? Well, thank god that we have the wall. Since then the number of terror attacks went down by hundreds of %. They have more freedom than I do. They're the ones who can walk fearlessly wherever they want. I'm the one that will get burned and beaten to death if I'll accidentally enter their places. They don't want freedom. They want us dead. We're here for a longer time than 67'. The history haven't started after The Six Days War.

  4. We're not exaggerating a thing. Hamas can choose what he wants - Peace or Violence. But they chose to bring death. And the moment most of Gaza's population chose to support terror. Even the Egyptians don't want them, it's a hive of terror.

    and the almost insignificant deaths in the Israeli part well, thankfully we have developed some solutions to protected us. Do you have a problem that we're not getting killed?

  5. Well, in my opinion, it is and it was our land. Whose land is it? Jordan's? Turkey's? Byzantine's? When was there a "Palestinian" state? When was there a "Palestinian" ruler? Why are the no evidence for such thing? Because there was never a "Palestinian" state. Even their great leader, Arafhat (May he burn in hell if such exists) was burn in Egypt. He was Egyptian. Most of the so-called Palestinians are immigrants brought by the Turkish empire to build the railroad here. By the way - Here's the origin of the name Palestine. We're the true Palestinians, my grandmother was called Palestinian, every one here were Palestinians until 48-67.

  6. Again, from whom was it conquered? From the great empire of Palestine? From the might Palestinosaurus Rex? There was no regime on this land except the Jordanian one. It was a legit move. Also, though it was 2000 years ago, we we're deported from here. Fortunately we're here and we demand our land back. Wait a second? What do you mean that it's questionable if East Jerusalem was ours? Haven't you heared about King David? Should I give you a list of archaeology evidences found? There are tens of thousands of evidences that show that we've been on this land for thousands of years.

  7. Look, they're not "radicalizing" themselves, they've always been. We have a say - The Arab is the same Arab an the sea is the same sea. Nothing have changed. Since Battle of Chaiber they've always tried to kill us or oppressed us under the Islamic rules. Do you know about a thing called The Farhud? Was there an oppression in Iraq? Short answer, no. It's in their Quran, in their heritage -

    Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be >established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a >Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, >so kill him."

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who >disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip >of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual >struggle.

That's why most of the Christian-Arabs and Druze support us.

  1. I'll give you a list soon.

[–]Mr_Strangelove_MSc 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oslo - Suicide Bombing

You seem to forget that it's precisely the Oslo agreement - which was a humiliation for the Palestinian for the right it gave to the Israeli ruler - precisely allowed to end the First Intifada. Palestinian wanted to settle. When they had even a minor settlement of their situation, the uprising stopped.

Hitnatkut - Rockets

True, but not a whole lot of Israeli victims. Again "Jews being slaughtered" is not proven here.

1929 - During the division process, the mufti of Jerusalem, Haj-Amin El-Husseini says "Everyone who kills Jews - Gets his place in Heaven", Jews getting murderd. 1936 - Jews getting murdered, though the Arabs should've got almost absolute control of Israel. Again, 1936, Peel Commission - Jews getting murdered. 1947 - Two states solution is accepted in the UN, again - Jews getting murdered the start of "Milhement HaAtzmaut" and since then constant murders of Jews and war between the Arab nation and us.

None of what you quoted was part of the peace process. Since 1881, Palestinians had seen the land where they had spent all their lives slowly being taken over by the Jewish Zionists, and with the support if not assistance of Western powers, and of the British ruler after 1919, for example with the Balfour Declaration. In this regard, the Palestinians started opposing pacifically the Zionists who they felt - and history proved them right - would end up expelling every one of them from the Land of their forefathers. As all uprising, they were some violent incidents and belligerent discourse.

The 1936 revolution was part of it, and a pinnacle of Palestinian resistance to Zionism. The Peel Commission was not a instrument to solve the existing conflict, but rather a British institution whose role was to realize the Zionist dream in Palestine, hence the revolt. And again, the UN partition plan was seen similarly by the Palestinians and the Arab countries. They hadn't given their agreement, and didn't want to leave their land. You may say that they should've respecter the UN ruling and left, but the Israelis themselves have shown over the years nothing but contempt for UN resolutions, and therefore this argument would not work.

Your original statement has not been proven.

Do you support the killing of innocent civilians?

I don't which is why I oppose the Israeli government. What was the civilian death toll in Gaza, again?

They have more freedom than I do. They're the ones who can walk fearlessly wherever they want. I'm the one that will get burned and beaten to death if I'll accidentally enter their places. They don't want freedom. They want us dead.

That is plain wrong. Do you know you need an official authorization to enter in Israel as a Palestinian, but not the other way round? Do you know how hard this authorization is to get? Do you know some people have died from sickness because they were not authorized to access a hospital in another part of the country? Should I talk about the mobs who "protect" the settlements in the West Bank, also beating a Palestinian to death from time to time, even it their own territory and in total impunity?

I will also advise you to get informed about the different massacres perpetrated by the Israeli forces over the years. It might open your eyes.

We're here for a longer time than 67'. The history haven't started after The Six Days War.

Not true either. No Jews were present in the Israel except in Jerusalem from the first exode until 1881, and even there, they were an anecdotal minority. If you want to go back to before 1967, we can do that, which will show you - even according to Zionist sources - that Palestinians were present in mass these territories before 1967, unlike Jews.

We're not exaggerating a thing. Hamas can choose what he wants - Peace or Violence. But they chose to bring death. And the moment most of Gaza's population chose to support terror. Even the Egyptians don't want them, it's a hive of terror.

Quoting the Hamas Covenant is the straw man argument of the Gaza conflict since the Hamas has never applied the Covenant, and that it's a completely anecdotal element. Hamas has set a number of conditions (the list come from a protected article of Gideon Levy for Haaretz) for a cease-fire, none of which are eccentric or extreme, but that Israel refused.

Well, in my opinion, it is and it was our land. Whose land is it? Jordan's? Turkey's? Byzantine's? When was there a "Palestinian" state? When was there a "Palestinian" ruler? Why are the no evidence for such thing?

Again, from whom was it conquered? From the great empire of Palestine? From the might Palestinosaurus Rex?

And a just after:

There was no regime on this land except the Jordanian one.

See? You answered your own question.

He was Egyptian. Most of the so-called Palestinians are immigrants brought by the Turkish empire to build the railroad here. By the way - Here's the origin of the name Palestine. We're the true Palestinians, my grandmother was called Palestinian, every one here were Palestinians until 48-67.

Historically wrong.

If you want to play with words, we can do that, and call Palestinians "Arabs of Palestine", like most historians do. Do you feel better now?

Also, though it was 2000 years ago, we we're deported from here. Fortunately we're here and we demand our land back. Wait a second? What do you mean that it's questionable if East Jerusalem was ours? Haven't you heared about King David? Should I give you a list of archaeology evidences found? There are tens of thousands of evidences that show that we've been on this land for thousands of years.

It's correct, but what exactly gives you the right to a certain land because you were here 2'000 years ago? I'm pretty sure that my ancestors 2'000 years ago did not live on this lot where my house is built. Does that mean they have the right to take it back? No, it doesn't. The fact that you ruled a land once doesn't give you the right to claim it eternally. In the mid-time, people have built things there, they have cultivated the land, they have their families and their history. In a 2'000 years gap, things irrevocably change, and there's unfortunately nothing you can do about it.

Moreover, you won't find any serious Zionist theoreticians who claims historical right to the Land of Israel. They all agreed, as I do, that Israel has a special relationship with the Jewish people, but that's not sufficient at all to oppress, conquer, and slaughter the preexisting populations for the sake of your beliefs.

Look, they're not "radicalizing" themselves, they've always been. We have a say - The Arab is the same Arab an the sea is the same sea. Nothing have changed. Since Battle of Chaiber they've always tried to kill us or oppressed us under the Islamic rules. Do you know about a thing called The Farhud? Was there an oppression in Iraq? Short answer, no. It's in their Quran, in their heritage -

Good old racism. I had forgotten that even existed. As a Jew, you should be ashamed to be racist against another people, since your own people have suffered greatly of the same vice and similar positions. I don't see why your personal hatred of the Muslims gives you the right, again, to conquer a Land you have no right on, and to kill and oppress civilians. This is not a holy war, buddy. This is the real world. You are not fighting just jihadists, you are fighting people who just want to live in peace on the Land of their forefathers.

Hebron massacre

You know who were the perpetrators of the deadliest bombing in modern Palestine? Jews, my friend.

Quran quotes

Sorry, but I don't have the energy to quote you parts of the Bible about the genocide of the Amaleks, the conquest of Palestine (oh yes, you forgot that Palestine was conquered by Jews in the first place), and the multiple reminders that Jews are better than all the other races.

Open your mind and think for yourself.

[–]awakehope[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

  1. So, so called "Humiliation" support by their leaders is a good reason to kill hundreds of innocents?

  2. And yet, would you accept if I'll fire rockets at your country? Do you want us to get killed?

  3. The whole talks were surrounding the peace talks. And again, they've slaughtered innocents without a reason. Oh well, there's a reason. They want us dead. How surprising.

3.Well, the civilian toll was unfortunately high but that's because Hamas used houses, schools, mosques and hospitals as shelters, bunkers, rocket launchers places, hideouts, ammo warehouses and etc. If you help a terror organization during war don't expect to get flowers. Expect to get bombs. And if we're already talking about wars... How many innocent people did the allies killed in WW2?

  1. They need an official authorization because sadly, before the barriers they've decided to explode in our cities. >mobs Yeah, cause teens shouting around are much more dangerous than sick bastards that stick a broom into someones face also, they're the minorty, not like most of your friends who support killing of 3 month old babies

Well, I'm ending this discussion because it seems like you're supporting the killing of Jews, quoting from "Intifda" sources and etc. I won't be surprised if you're happy when we're getting killed.

And about the racism part - I'm not racist. That's the truth, since Chaiber Arabs are trying to kill us. It's not our fault that it's written in their Quran. About the Amaleks, back then they've always attacked us, no matter what we've done. They were our enemy.

Edit:* One more thing. Please don't stick your nose. You know nothing about this place and what's going on here. Stay back in your country and mind with your own businesses.

[–]Mr_Strangelove_MSc 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you want to end the discussion I won't insist.

In case you would like to know, half of my family lives in Israel, and that includes a grandmother who lives in Ashkelon. I go there 4 - 5 times a year, and have read quite a few thousand pages on the conflict.

[–]Hummusmonster10 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

When I visited Israel a few years ago, it seemed very safe. The media makes it seem like a warzone, but that couldn't be further from the truth in most places. Israel is really no more dangerous than most developed countries, we just hear about everything bad that happens in Israel.

[–]awakehope[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, the media does makes it worse but - It is dangerous for Jews. If I'll walk by myself in Ramallah or even in Sachnin/Um-El-Fahem most chances are that I'll get killed.

[–]fleeter 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's built on conquered land, though...

[–]autowikibot 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Israeli disengagement from Gaza:

The Israeli disengagement from Gaza (Hebrew: תָּכְנִית הַהִתְנַתְּקוּת, Tokhnit HaHitnatkut; in the Disengagement Plan Implementation Law), also known as "Gaza expulsion" and "Hitnatkut", was the withdrawal of the Israeli army from Gaza, and the dismantling of all Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip in 2005. Four small settlements in the northern West Bank were also evacuated.

The disengagement was proposed by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, adopted by the government on June 6, 2004 and enacted in August 2005. Those Israeli citizens who refused to accept government compensation packages and voluntarily vacate their homes prior to the August 15, 2005 deadline, were evicted by Israeli security forces over a period of several days. The eviction of all residents, demolition of the residential buildings and evacuation of associated security personnel from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005. The eviction and dismantlement of the four settlements in the northern West Bank was completed ten days later.

Image i - Israeli-Palestinian coordination effort, 2005

Interesting: Ariel Sharon | Gaza Strip | Israeli settlement

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