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[–]ragepaw 694 ポイント695 ポイント  (223子コメント)

To quote Penn Jilette on an episode of Bullshit!

"Baby twisting motherfucker"

[–]TheTwist 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (0子コメント)

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[–]Bingo_banjo 118 ポイント119 ポイント  (219子コメント)

They sell this shit as needed after an abnormal birth but classify that as a c section, use of pain relief, basically all births. Fair enough, the treatment is unlikely to cripple the newborn but there is zero benefit for the risk. People need to realize what charlatans that chiropractors are. Its a pretty sick scam

[–]travisestes 96 ポイント97 ポイント  (169子コメント)

I've had my back adjusted before by a chiropractor and it was great. Felt better after a few sessions (had twisted it working out). Surely I'm not imagining this.

[–]Donna_Freaking_Noble 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (4子コメント)

True, but I'm guessing you're not a newborn.

[–]ELEMENTALITYNES 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (3子コメント)

On the internet, nobody knows you're a newborn dog

[–]KING_0F_REDDIT 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

this is getting me right now. fucking corgi. every time.

[–]Enghiskhan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't worry, you son of a bitch.

[–]SynthPrax 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

On the internet, nobody knows you're a newborn, dog

Comma power!

[–]cybervalidation 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (35子コメント)

There's a massive hate on for chiropractors at the moment. I've had my problems and had to see several orthopedic surgeons, physiotherapists and chiropractors to get back to "normal" again. I found the chiro helped a lot with the specific problem he was working on. Though I have mentioned this on reddit before and been told I'm an idiot and don't know what was happening with my own body, so there's that.

[–]rycars 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Speaking as somebody who doesn't know much about the issue, the opponents of chiropractic (at least on reddit) usually reference and sometimes link lots of studies showing that it has no benefit, and the only responses seem to be along the lines of "well, I went to a chiropractor and I felt better after, so I don't get what the big deal is". It's pretty hard to side with such vague anecdotal evidence.

[–]kyleboddy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Spinal manipulation (SM) is of some useful effect for lower back disorders and not much else. I like my chiro for my back issues but others often say shit like subluxations cause headaches. That's where SM gets shit on, since that's obviously false.

[–]phx-au 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Plus it's usually "I went to a chiropractor and he totally cured me, and I was so happy that I go back once a week for the...."

[–]citation-is-needed -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Speaking as somebody who doesn't know much about the issue, the opponents of chiropractic (at least on reddit) usually reference and sometimes link lots of studies showing that it has no benefit, and the only responses seem to be along the lines of .

[Citation Needed]

I am a bot. For questions or comments, please contact /u/slickytail

[–]rycars 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Heh, not a literal quote, sorry =)

[–]starynght8 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's a few... I actually have thousands as a chiropractor. Feel like evidence is pretty important in any profession.

“[Chiropractic Manipulative Therapy] in conjunction with [standard medical care] offers a significant advantage for decreasing pain and improving physical functioning when compared with only standard care, for men and women between 18 and 35 years of age with acute low back pain.”

--Goertz et al. (2013), Spine

In a Randomized controlled trial, 183 patients with neck pain were randomly allocated to manual therapy (spinal mobilization), physiotherapy (mainly exercise) or general practitioner care (counseling, education and drugs) in a 52-week study. The clinical outcomes measures showed that manual therapy resulted in faster recovery than physiotherapy and general practitioner care. Moreover, total costs of the manual therapy-treated patients were about one-third of the costs of physiotherapy or general practitioner care.

-- Korthals-de Bos et al (2003), British Medical Journal

“Patients with chronic low-back pain treated by chiropractors showed greater improvement and satisfaction at one month than patients treated by family physicians. Satisfaction scores were higher for chiropractic patients. A higher proportion of chiropractic patients (56 percent vs. 13 percent) reported that their low-back pain was better or much better, whereas nearly one-third of medical patients reported their low-back pain was worse or much worse.”

– Nyiendo et al (2000), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics

In Comparison to Other Treatment Alternatives

"Reduced odds of surgery were observed for...those whose first provider was a chiropractor. 42.7% of workers [with back injuries] who first saw a surgeon had surgery, in contrast to only 1.5% of those who saw a chiropractor."

– Keeney et al (2012), Spine

“Acute and chronic chiropractic patients experienced better outcomes in pain, functional disability, and patient satisfaction; clinically important differences in pain and disability improvement were found for chronic patients.”

– Haas et al (2005), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics

“In our randomized, controlled trial, we compared the effectiveness of manual therapy, physical therapy, and continued care by a general practitioner in patients with nonspecific neck pain. The success rate at seven weeks was twice as high for the manual therapy group (68.3 percent) as for the continued care group (general practitioner). Manual therapy scored better than physical therapy on all outcome measures. Patients receiving manual therapy had fewer absences from work than patients receiving physical therapy or continued care, and manual therapy and physical therapy each resulted in statistically significant less analgesic use than continued care.”

– Hoving et al (2002), Annals of Internal Medicine

For Headaches

“Cervical spine manipulation was associated with significant improvement in headache outcomes in trials involving patients with neck pain and/or neck dysfunction and headache.”

-- McCrory, Penzlen, Hasselblad, Gray (2001), Duke Evidence Report

“The results of this study show that spinal manipulative therapy is an effective treatment for tension headaches. . . Four weeks after cessation of treatment . . . the patients who received spinal manipulative therapy experienced a sustained therapeutic benefit in all major outcomes in contrast to the patients that received amitriptyline therapy, who reverted to baseline values.” ‘

-- Boline et al. (1995), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics

For Neck Pain

In a study funded by NIH’s National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine to test the effectiveness of different approaches for treating mechanical neck pain, 272 participants were divided into three groups that received either spinal manipulative therapy (SMT) from a doctor of chiropractic (DC), pain medication (over-the-counter pain relievers, narcotics and muscle relaxants) or exercise recommendations. After 12 weeks, about 57 percent of those who met with DCs and 48 percent who exercised reported at least a 75 percent reduction in pain, compared to 33 percent of the people in the medication group. After one year, approximately 53 percent of the drug-free groups continued to report at least a 75 percent reduction in pain; compared to just 38 percent pain reduction among those who took medication.

-- Bronfort et al. (2012), Annals of Internal Medicine

Cost Effectiveness

Low back pain initiated with a doctor of chiropractic (DC) saves 40 percent on health care costs when compared with care initiated through a medical doctor (MD), according to a study that analyzed data from 85,000 Blue Cross Blue Shield (BCBS) beneficiaries in Tennessee over a two-year span. The study population had open access to MDs and DCs through self-referral, and there were no limits applied to the number of MD/DC visits allowed and no differences in co-pays. Researchers estimated that allowing DC-initiated episodes of care would have led to an annual cost savings of $2.3 million for BCBS of Tennessee. They also concluded that insurance companies that restrict access to chiropractic care for low back pain treatment may inadvertently pay more for care than they would if they removed such restrictions.

– Liliedahl et al (2010), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics

“Chiropractic care appeared relatively cost-effective for the treatment of chronic low-back pain. Chiropractic and medical care performed comparably for acute patients. Practice-based clinical outcomes were consistent with systematic reviews of spinal manipulative efficacy: manipulation-based therapy is at least as good as and, in some cases, better than other therapeusis.”

– Haas et al (2005), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics

Patient Satisfaction

“Chiropractic patients were found to be more satisfied with their back care providers after four weeks of treatment than were medical patients. Results from observational studies suggested that back pain patients are more satisfied with chiropractic care than with medical care. Additionally, studies conclude that patients are more satisfied with chiropractic care than they were with physical therapy after six weeks.”

-- Hertzman-Miller et al (2002), American Journal of Public Health

Popularity of Chiropractic

“Chiropractic is the largest, most regulated, and best recognized of the complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) professions. CAM patient surveys show that chiropractors are used more often than any other alternative provider group and patient satisfaction with chiropractic care is very high. There is steadily increasing patient use of chiropractic in the United States, which has tripled in the past two decades.”

– Meeker, Haldeman (2002), Annals of Internal Medicine

[–]ILoveLamp9 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rekt

[–]Pretzel_Boy 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The issue that people have, is that chiropractic treatment is definitively classified as "alternative medicine", which, in the words of Tim Minchin:

Alternative medicine has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work. You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine.

[–]wisdom_possibly 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reddit likes to take the extreme of something and treat it as the norm. So they hate chiropractors because some chiros believe strange things like it can help cure cancer or some shit.

If you take a reasonable look at chiropractic, that it's joint manipulation and structural alignment best used in conjunction with other therapies and exercise, it is much too reasonable for misguided outrage.

[–]I_have_teef 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They aren't helping their case by offering a kinesio tape class at the colleges.

[–]speak-zero 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Astrologists, blood letters, crystal healers, and aura readers are also unpopular right now. Want to know what they have in common with chiropractic? They all have been debunked with modern scientific methods for evaluating the benefit of medical treatments.

[–]SausserTausser 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Sounds like the chiropractor helped him where the surgeons, and physiotherapists could not.

Believe whatever you want to believe, but at the end of the day, the chiropractor made this guy feel better. Sounds like a good fucking job to me.

I don't know what the goal of this argument is. Would he be better off if he were in a whole lot of pain and with a jacked up back?

[–]Brettster 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's fucking ridiculously irresponsible to elevate pseudoscience which can actually damage people just because of a few dubious anecdotes.

If rational people were all like you, we'd be promoting voodoo dolls and wicca spells because hey, who knows rite? I mean, who are scientists and researchers to tell us that a would-be medical practice is based on zero evidence.

[–]SausserTausser 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

[–]crwcomposer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, he'd be better off going to a massage therapist, which accomplishes the same thing for cheaper, and without people pretending to be doctors.

[–]sarahbobera 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not cheaper, at least in my experience. Price is comparable, sometimes less if your insurance covers it (many do). Most chiropractors have massage therapists on staff too, so it's not just the snap-crackle-pop thing.

[–]velocide 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and antidepressants too.

[–]_Personage 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Meh. People are so set in their ways. I love my chiropractor and won't stop something I am 100% sure helps because of what a bunch of redditors said on the internet.

[–]Brettster 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People are so set in their ways.

This describes those who stubbornly defend chiropractors much moreso than those who actually listen to pesky doctors, scientists, and peer reviewed evidence.

The placebo effect 100% certainly helps people too.

[–]Bannedfromfun 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You can be 100% sure of something that's wrong.

[–]_Personage -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No you know what? I can't be wrong in this, because I know when I feel better. There is no wrong with this one.

[–]judokalinker 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one is discounting the placebo effect.

Nevermind, i guess you are right. Just like people who use Power Bandz can't be wrong in their argument because they feel better.

[–]Stunod7 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm right with you. I love my chiropractor. I woke up the other day with a terrible pain in my lower back. Couldn't bend over. Couldn't lift my son. It was awful. 1 trip and I walked out able to resume regular function. 1 more trip and all my pain was gone. If I went to a regular doc they would have probably prescribed me a bunch of pills. My insurance covers it 100%. People can hate on it all they want, but it's made my life better.

[–]Brettster 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I woke up the other day with pain, and after a couple days it was gone too. Imagine that! I'm going to attribute it to the diet coke I drank.

[–]_Personage -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Love it when my insurance covers it.

[–]pinko_zinko 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We just need to better differentiate old timey chiropractic care from modern physical therapy/message style care.

[–]ForeverInaDaze 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My dad and many of my friends' dads are doctors. Chiropractors are considered a joke because there's no real training involved. No med school or anything.

[–]furythree 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chiros are just masseurs you can see that you can claim the cost back on your imsurance

[–]Specicide89 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck em. They like to act like SOME chiropractors think that alignment of the spine effects your heart and stomach etc that ALL of them do.

My pelvis tilts. I can't walk when it does so. Chiropractor stretches and realigns my pelvis and I can walk. Douche bags read one article and they know all the subtleties of the issue.

[–]kubotabro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's probably because it's better to see a sport injury therapist then to see a dumb ass chiropractor.

No office I've been to has a consistent in their methods and average training time before you become Ugrah the neck breaker can be given to you in 9 months training time. (Average is supposed to be 4 years).

[–]doesntakethehighroad 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Other alternative treatments that gets Reddit's approval:

  • food as medicine
  • vitamins†
  • exercise
  • meditation
  • massage
  • hypnosis
  • rest and relaxation
  • spiritual journey using marijuana, peyote, mushrooms, etc

Yet, for some reason chiropractors are hated. Reddit viewpoints are rarely consistent.

Albeit vitamins sometimes catch some flack here.

[–]Ded-Reckoning 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (26子コメント)

Surely I'm not imagining this.

The placebo effect is pretty damn powerful. Also, there's no way of knowing whether or not your back would have just healed naturally in that same period of time. This is why double blind trials are mandatory for proving the efficacy of a drug, and as of yet no credible peer reviewed research has demonstrated that chiropractic procedures can beat a placebo.

If you have back problems severe enough to require intervention, go to an orthopedic physical therapist. They specialize in the same area that chiropractors claim to, only they have an actual medical licence and are backed by science, not anecdotes.

[–]ziie 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (25子コメント)

I hurt my back while on deployment. I went to the VA which recommended that I go see a physical therapist. I went for about 3 months and saw little to no improvement. The physical therapist at the VA hospital recommended me to go see a chiropractor and even gave me insurance paperwork for it.

Saw a chiropractor and after a few weeks my back isn't completely pain free, but I'd say at least 80 to 90 percent better than it had ever been since my injury.

Before reading this comment thread, I had no idea that chiropractic treatment was a taboo in the general reddit community. But from personal experience, I firmly believe in its uses.

[–]Miko00 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (9子コメント)

a little over a year ago i hurt my back pretty bad at work. i was unable to work for like a week, was pretty shitty. after like a week i was able to get up and go to work, but for months i would be in pain every morning from being so stiff. it was hard to even put socks and shoes on, but after about 2 hours of being up i was usually fine until the next morning. at one point it all of a sudden got way worse for me in the mornings, i was a 29 year old single guy in an apartment living alone, almost in tears from just trying to put my socks on because it hurt so bad. i called a chiropractor i found who was like 4 blocks from my apartment and made an appointment for after work one day that week. met with the guy and gave some history, he did a fast check up in his office and told me to have a seat until he called me back.

he put me on some table that allowed itself to "give" when he applied pressure, twisted and turned my body is strange ways and applied pressure. none of it hurt but i could feel strange things in my back happening, took like 10min and after he put a heating pad on my back and told me to stay there for 10min, he came back and said to come see him once a week for a month and we'll evaluate my progress. i was charged $35 and didnt actually feel any better when i left.

work up the next morning and felt amazing, no pain in the slightest and had full motion with ease. that was over a year ago and i have not once had a back issue since. i spent months in extreme pain, this guy did his shit 1 time and the very next day the pain was gone, fuck people who say it doesnt work. i never even went back for a second visit, saw him that 1 time, for $35 and a year later still 0 issues

[–]ziie 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. Very similar story. My back was feeling much better after the first visit and spent very close to the same amount. I went back once a week for a couple of weeks just to make sure but that was two years ago and while I don't think my back will ever be 100%, I'm not having any trouble getting out of bed or daily life. Glad you had the same experience. Having back pain is terrible, no matter how severe.

[–]Brettster 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If this was the case reliably, it would prove itself in every trial ever given with flying colors. What is so hard to understand about that?

You can find thousands of people claiming the same miracles with homeopathy and astrology and witchcraft.

[–]mrm1776 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Similar situation... I had a plethora of back problems while in the military. Saw doctors, physical therapists, etc. Anytime I'd do something wrong, my back would be jacked for weeks.

Threw out my back one day when I got out of the military. Extreme pain. Couldn't walk easily and certainly couldn't do my job as a car audio installer.

Went to a chiropractor. He did some x-rays and then I went back the next day. Did some adjustments and I was able to walk fully upright out of his office. By the next day, I was virtually pain-free. If it doesn't work, then how else can you explain that? That's a lot more than placebo effect.

Chiropractic care is about adjusting the joints. Physical therapy doesn't really cover that. I don't understand why the two can't co-exist. There are plenty of chiropractors who recognize that there is a place for medical doctors and know the limitations of their particular field of study.

[–]anon3737 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

While I am glad your pain is gone, this is not how medical data is gathered. In controlled tests where variables can be weeded out, and placebo effect measured and compared to actual effect, there is very little support for the chiropractic practice. From what I understand the one small area that there may actually be a glimmer of evidence is in pain management, so who knows maybe he did have an effect. But for making medical decisions, an anecdote is NOT evidence. Your back could very well have felt better the next day without doing anything. There is no way to control for that ex post facto.

[–]Miko00 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

i really dont give a fuck how medical data is gathered. i have all the "evidence" i need. to try and imply that i would have been perfectly fine the next day and still perfectly fine over a year later even if i didnt go see the guy is pretty ignorant, it's not like it was getting better over time, it was actually getting worse which is why i went to see someone in the first place

you dont know the pain i was in, you didnt see me struggle to do the simplest of tasks only for it all to go away the day after i went in.

so either what he did worked, or it was magic. and since magic doesn't exist im more inclined to believe what he did worked

[–]anon3737 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not implying anything. I'm simply informing you that actual evidence is gathered systematically and methodically. And this data doesn't support chiropractic claims.

When you go to a doctor for whatever the next health issue you have is, you want him to treat you with a treatment that has been proven through clinical studies to have an actual beneficial effect, not a product that has some dude on the box saying "This shit worked for me, that is all the evidence I need!"

I'm glad your back is better. For real. But its not evidence.

[–]eshinn 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

In truth I know absolutely jack about any of this. I just come here to unwind and go with the flow.

[–]ziie 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol. At least you're honest.

[–]coredumperror 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The main problem with chiropractic is that there are a lot of charlatans who claim that chiropractic can do a lot more than it actually can. Chiropractic does actually work for a narrow band of maladies, but that gets lost in the noise caused by all the people (rightfully) calling bullshit on the chiropractors touting their work as a catch-all cure for just about everything.

[–]XK310 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

A good massage licensed massage therapist would have probably had the same results

[–]travisestes 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Either way, they cost about the same but one is covered by my insurance the other is not.

[–]b-b-boots 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Any time I see the word "therapist" I read "the-rapist".

[–]ziie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When I saw your username I thought it was going to end with a B instead of a T.

[–]speak-zero 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not the reddit community, but in the scientific and medical communities. Because of, you know, science.

[–]ziie 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Thank you for the clarification. I just saw several comments completely dismissing it and figured that was a thing but just wasn't brought up as much.

[–]snoogans122 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

From what I hear it's an immediate yet short lasting relief from your pain. Ergo why you have to keep coming back. Did you find this to be your experience as well?

I only know one person who does it & she has to keep going back regularly or its even worse than before...

[–]ziie 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As you can probably see in my replies to other comments, I haven't been back in two years and my back hasn't gone into remission or anything. I may have gotten lucky or went to a chiropractor that knew what he was doing. I'm not sure. Just saying what I've personality experienced.

[–]Jrook 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But what alternatives are there? For back pain especially I don't think there are any. I think you can get a pump installed inside you to pump morphine but if you've fucked up your back, its not getting better no matter what you do.

So saying that they never get "Cured" from the pain is kinda misleading, because it doesn't matter if they visit a chiropractor or a surgeon. The results will be the same

[–]Ded-Reckoning 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your physical therapist asked you to go see a chiropractor? Jesus, I guess the VA really is that bad.

Jokes aside, there are a few cases where chiropractic procedures could theoretically help. The problem is that manually readjusting someones spine can have serious consequences if done poorly, and the chiropractic field is divided between people who generally know their way around a back, and hucksters who still think that cracking your spine will magically cure every illness in your body. The 'good' chiropractors don't have very solid research behind them either, so overall its pretty sketchy.

Honestly it sounds a bit like your therapist just wanted to get you through the system and push the burden to someone else. If it worked for you, that's good; but be wary of reoccurring pain. Right now there isn't good evidence that manual readjustment isn't just a temporary band aid solution, and if your chiropractor decides to just keep using that on you I'd find someone else, because his bills will add up quickly.

[–]ziie 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was two years ago and I haven't seen him since. The guy I saw was awesome. Explained everything to me and showed me the x-ray he took and told me exactly what he would be working on. He himself even told me if everything went well, then I shouldn't have to see him after a few weeks. He was right. Super nice guy and from what I could tell, he knew exactly what he was doing.

Again, this is all through my personal experience. I'm not saying that people who believe that chiropractic treatment will cure polio aren't out there, but I don't think the guy I saw was one of them.

[–]Brettster 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Before reading this comment thread, I had no idea that chiropractic treatment was a taboo in the general reddit community.

Stop saying that. It has nothing to do with Reddit, it's literally not accepted science. That's like saying "oooh snake oil isn't trending on Reddit right now I guess".

[–]blafargle 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chiropracty is kind of like alchemy. There's a lot of bullshit pseudoscience that goes on, but in doing so the field has managed to discover many techniques that actually work. There's also an element of the placebo effect. There's also a ton of quacks you need to watch out for.

Basically if you find yourself needing to keep regular appointments with a chiropractor over several weeks or else you go back to being in pain, then you really should be seeing a physical therapist instead.

[–]thehammer217 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (64子コメント)

There is actually zero scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of chiropractic intervention. Any improvement seen after an "adjustment" is most likely due to the muscles being stretched, not "remodeling your skeleton". Your skeleton isn't composed of loose parts. It's rigid for a reason. When you don't move or use your muscles much (sitting in an office chair all day) they tighten up. This can lead to referred pain all over the place. Next time your back hurts spend 10 minutes stretching out your hamstrings, groin, glutes, and quads.

[–]chewp911 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (2子コメント)

When I get home from work I stretch my groin vigorously, but I'm still sitting in a chair while I do it.

[–]egokulture 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone with a super advanced degree in like medical stuff, I can prescribe an enhanced schedule of double vigorous stretching. You should also consider a variety stretching locations and positions. This is called the "Hammer217 method for enhanced kinetic stretchability. "

[–]djsidd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I stretch it like I'm pulling taffy

[–]Iamachiropractor 168 ポイント169 ポイント  (35子コメント)

There is actually zero scientific evidence to support the effectiveness of chiropractic intervention.

It gets really old to see this parroted everywhere.

This article shows benefit for chiropractic for chronic LBP:

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21245790)

This article shows benefit for chiropractic for chronic spinal pain:

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12865832)

This article shows chiropractic benefits acute non-specific LBP compared to nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug diclofenac and found chiropractic to be clinically superior to placebo:

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23026869)

This article shows significant improvement in condition-specific function with chiropractic treatment of acute mechanical LBP compared to medical treatment:

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20889389)

This article looks to provide insight on dose-response for chiropractic treatment of headache:

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2819630/pdf/nihms-147679.pdf)

This article is from the Annals of Internal Medicine and shows evidence of benefit of chiropractic for acute (non-chronic) LBP:

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909209)

This systematic review from the EUROPEAN SPINE Journal show

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21229367)

Adjustments better than drugs and placebo, new study from Spine.

(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23026869)

Any improvement seen after an "adjustment" is most likely due to the muscles being stretched, not "remodeling your skeleton".

Citation needed.

Your skeleton isn't composed of loose parts. It's rigid for a reason.

There are over 75 articulating joints in the human spine including the interverterbral disks between each vertebrae and the zagapophyseal joints...more if you count rib articulations. All quite movable.

Next time your back hurts spend 10 minutes stretching out your hamstrings, groin, glutes, and quads.

..and when that doesn't work?

Look, I'm not condoning what's going on in the .gif OP posted (if that's even a chiropractor). Not at all. I'm just kind of tired of reading these posts where people ignore massive swaths of published, peer reviewed literature on chiropractic care as it relates to pain relief, spinal function, and neurology.

Does chiropractic have enough evidence? No. The body of research is still growing and chiropractic colleges are increasing research at a pace that they never have before.

Are all chiropractors quacks? Some are...yes. Some are even dangerous. However, to lump ALL chiropractors into the same group is disingenuous.

[–]shouldbebabysitting 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (6子コメント)

re all chiropractors quacks? Some are...yes. Some are even dangerous.

So why not see a licensed physical therapist who does the working part of chiropractic (muscle stretching) without the quackery and danger?

[–]wisdom_possibly 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Joint manipulation specialists. As long as you vet your chiropractor you'll avoid the quacks.

[–]noobprodigy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My vet is my chiropractor, so I should be good.

[–]aironrain 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why can't you go to a licensed chiropractor who spent nearly the same amount of time for their college education?

[–]thatflyingsquirrel 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (11子コメント)

None of that evidence is specific to chiropracty and can be done by any physical therapist or massage therapists. Most of the tenants of chiropracty go completely against science and physiologic function. All of their specific chiropractor journals are just bullshit.

[–]James718 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Most chiropractors do not follow the dogmatic tenants written 100 years ago

[–]thatflyingsquirrel 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Their medicine has evolved around believing in subluxation. It's fundamentally untrue. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-end-of-chiropractic/

[–]username156 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has recently applied Hill’s criteria to neck manipulation as a cause of stroke: he found that it fulfilled all but one of the criteria for causation.

Oh shit.

[–]Temnothorax 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Then they should become physical therapists, and stop referring to themselves as doctors.

[–]James718 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well Doctors of Chiropractic have more autonomy than PTs. Chiros can perform bloodwork, order MRI's and other tests and well as diagnose. They also don't need a referral from an MD to bill insurance. Modern chiros are very similar to DCs. Why do you believe PTs are the better choice? Because of a few bad chiros? Ive been to some terrible PTs and I dont discredit their whole profession.

[–]Temnothorax 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The question is whether Chiros should be allowed to have such autonomy. There is no good reason why chiropractic should exist beyond mainstream medicine. What few parts of chiropractic that work can easily be performed by practitioners of mainstream medicine. The only reason PT's often aren't allowed to perform the few effective chiropractic treatments that exist is due to lobbying from chiros fearful of losing their jobs.

[–]mattlikespeoples 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm so glad to see some defense of chiropractic in this thread. I live in Atlanta where pretty much the biggest DC school, Life University, is. I've worked with chiros for many years and can attest to their benefits without question. Have I run I to a couple not-so-good ones? Yeah but that happens in any profession period. Have I seen well over 1000 patients come and go in the 3.5 years I've worked at my current office? Yup. Its not a fluke that most of our patients go from 6-8/10 pain to 2-4/10 in a couple visits. We offer pt and other rehab to reinforce proper alignment because we understand that simply moving the bone back into place won't have a very long lasting effect without also reeducating the musculature around said joints.

[–]pinko_zinko 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is a problem for people defending them. If you are getting physical therapy from a "chiropractor" don't go crying that people disparage the field.

[–]Iamachiropractor -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All of their specific chiropractor journals are just bullshit.

Some are...yes. I agree.

None of that evidence is specific to chiropracty and can be done by any physical therapist or massage therapists

I think it's safe to say that chiropractors, by-in-large, do the lions share of spinal manipulation in the health care industry which makes this research completely relevant to the field of chiropractic.

Also, the word you're looking for is "Chiropractic" not "chiropracty".

[–]creamyturtle -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yo dawg. so i slept on my neck funny and woke up in extreme pain one day. I get an MRI, turns out i herniated 2 discs in my neck. doc sends me to a spine neck specialist and that guy says there's nothing modern medicine can do for you, your neck needs to be in worse condition and then we will surgery. surgery being we will fuse 2 bones together with metal. i was like WHAT

fast forward 2 years later of daily neck pain and the bones in the back of my neck feeling clearly out of alignment, i go to the chiro. first couple visits i was a pussy and wouldn't let him adjust my neck cuz i've read so much about strokes and this and that. then 3rd visit i'm like fuck it i'd rather be dead than have this neck pain. dude pops my neck, and it was a pretty crazy feeling. my neck was reallllly stuck and it was scary to get it cracked in that spot. i've been back a couple times since and feel somewhat pain free now, but the bones are only like halfway back towards their correct position, imho.

i now have hope that the rest of my life won't suck and for that i am grateful. i don't give a fuck if it's called science or magic but it seems to be working so far for me

[–]username_deleted 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The problem I see with it is that the solution is temporary and doesn't actually address the issue. If your skeletal structure is moving out of alignment, it is probably supporting muscle weakness, and physical therapy would be the best solution.

[–]wisdom_possibly 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why not both? After all most therapies for physical and mental health are best used in conjunction with other therapies. Doing your PT with good alignment will more easily engage the proper muscles. E.g if you're doing side bends with nasty scoliosis vs side bends with "not-bad" scoliosis.

[–]colbinator 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A good chiropractor should tell you exactly that, even if it puts them out of business more or less. I've seen a chiro+massage+PT combo and the PT at first then home maintenance and massage could do what the chiro does. If I couldn't keep up or had some kind of acute issue (like a fall) it was more helpful. I am not sure I could have maintained that relationship with the PT though I know some do stuff like active release in the same facility.

My favorite chiro disclaimer is for this: http://www.craniobiotic.com/cbt/AboutCBT.htm - head tapping fixes everything, even allergies. (We've actually seen this guy before finding someone more realistic and it was fascinating.)

[–]mrjimi16 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You seem like a guy who knows his shit, so I will ask this of you. You point out, accurately I think, that there isn't a huge amount of evidence for chiropractic effectiveness. However, there are two things to consider when deciding a course of treatment. Efficacy is one, but so is the risk-reward relationship. I have to wonder if the risks of chiropracty are better than those of alternative non-alternative medicine treatments.

[–]Iamachiropractor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chiropractic is extraordinarily low risk. For example, we pay lower malpractice insurance rates than any health profession I am aware of.

That's not to say that there are NO risks however, in my opinion, a skilled practitioner can reduce those risks greatly.

[–]GingerSnapBiscuit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And sugar pills have proven medicinal effects in patients. Scrap all drugs I say. /s

[–]razorbladecherry 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My daughter sees a chiropractor for cranio sacro therapy. It's helped our breastfeeding so much!

[–]zeissbickham 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And it doesn't help that the AMA had a very focused campaign to discredit chiropractors and their modality, ultimately leading to a lawsuit of Wilk et al VS the AMA, which found the AMA "engaged in an unlawful conspiracy in restraint of trade 'to contain and eliminate the chiropractic profession.'"

Like you, I would never condone whatever is going on in this gif, but it would be nice it reddit wasn't so quick to shit on anything that isn't cutting edge medicine.

[–]kcroftlmt 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I absolutely agree with you, it seems everyone thinks they're an expert on reddit. I have worked with several professional sports teams, Cirque Du Soleil athletes, and many others who regularly include chiropractic care.

[–]Murrabbit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right, and sports teams and stage performers never fall for quackery - they're immune to that sort of thing!

[–]ibanez-guy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

good work, bonus points for using the word "swaths"

[–]bmueller91 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is amazing and thank you for taking the time to reference articles to prove your point!

[–]Frostiken -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to understand the difference between a chiropractor and a physical therapist.

If I stab you in the head and you were suffering an epidural hematoma, I might have saved your life, but it wasn't really what I was trying to do. Chiropracty, in principle, is the belief that spinal alignment has some shit to do with curing cancer and improving organ function and shit like that.

[–]Jrook 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

sure but even if you're just paying someone to stretch you out... isn't that enough?

Like I'm not going to get some random person to push and pull on me, at least chiropractors have some sort of training in it.

[–]themcjizzler 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yea but my insurance will cover a chiropractic visit, not a massage.

[–]thehammer217 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is true, and quite a shame too. What about a physical therapist?

[–]kcroftlmt 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone who has practiced manual therapy on professional athletes and performers for over 8 years, your assessment of chiropractic work is very closed minded and misinformed. Depending on the type of injury, chiropractic work can allow muscles and movement patterns to realign much more effectively. Im not saying every chiropractor is worth trusting, as with any medical professional, you should do your research. I have worked with several doctors and physical therapist who safely and effectively perform adjustments or refer their patients to chiropractors. Do you have experience working in this field?

[–]bantamfarmer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had excruciating middle back pain for a week after a hard karate sparring session. Finally went to a chiropractor, said my rib was out, adjusted. Praise Tom Cruise! Relief. Fixed. Took three more weeks of adjusting and haven't had an issue since.

Not a huge fan of chiropractors but I don't think they are quacks.

[–]JohnnyDread 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Quackwatch.org maintains a huge amount of research and other information on Chiropractic at http://www.chirobase.org/.

[–]footinmymouth -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow. You're really mis-informed mr. thehammer.

Verifiable scientific source with solid methodology here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1663160/

"RESULTS--Chiropractic treatment was more effective than hospital outpatient management, mainly for patients with chronic or severe back pain. A benefit of about 7% points on the Oswestry scale was seen at two years."

I have been seeing a chiropractor for the past year, starting with a set of x-rays showing the curvature %ages for my spine. It's slowly been adjusting back into the correct range. You don't understand that chiro isn't "remodelling your skeleton" it's helping your body re-adjust how your spine carries your weight and prevents presure on the nerves running throughout your spine. If you don't think that misaligned bones pressing on nerves actually causes a problem then I don't think you've ever actually experienced real back pain before.

[–]thehammer217 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a 20 year old study and, if you look at the top of that pub med page you linked you'll see four separate links to four separate articles all of which call out this study you linked for being conducted poorly, analyzed poorly, and drawing conclusions that are not there. Essentially that link proves the exact opposite of what you were trying to.

Here is a meta-analysis (the gold standard for research papers) on the effectiveness and efficacy of chiropractic written in 2008: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18280103

"The concepts of chiropractic are not based on solid science and its therapeutic value has not been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt."

it's helping your body re-adjust how your spine carries your weight and prevents presure on the nerves running throughout your spine

that's also the exact kind of pseudoscientific bullshit that chiropractors feed their patients to keep them coming back for their "adjustments".

[–]Brettster 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

rekt

[–]Bosticles -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, my chiropractor identified and cured my chronic, debilitating headaches when several neurologists went "meh, no idea". So, there's that..

[–]secondsbest 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had an adjustment from a licensed chiropractor and experienced twitches in my arm the same day. The twitch progressed and I was having seizures the next day. I guess our anecdotes cancel each other out.

[–]LordGalen -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

TL;DR - A masseuse is cheaper and just as effective.

[–]XK310 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct. They'd be better of just visiting a licensed massage therapist

[–]eshinn -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait what? I thought that's what chiropractics was - just stretching. They seriously think they're "remolding" the skeletal system? Is there an extended vinegar bath before hand?

[–]Brettster -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chiropractic therapy is based on fundamentally retarded pseudo-science. It's like the homeopathy of physical therapy.

There might be a very narrow set of symptoms that it might help a little, but not in the way that it professes to.

[–]wisdom_possibly -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No chiropractor is ever going to say that they reformed your bones. They're talking about skeletal alignment not your skeleton.

Stretching helps your posture / alignment. Good alignment helps prevent overly engaged or disengaged muscles. Doing both is probably best but not necessary.

[–]mj1176 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah, but that doesn't make it anything more than a good massage. It's not a branch of medicine...

[–]textual_predditor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But... But... They call themselves "doctor".

[–]brekus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's entirely possible you are imagining it or it's a coincidence or any number of possible explanations.

[–]PandaEatsRage 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I work doing Xray equipment for urgent cares, clinics, and a SHIT ton of chiropractors. My back is shit randomly, and the few times I've had them adjust me, I've felt instant relief and was better for a few weeks.

That being said, from what I've read is chiropractors can do the same thing that going to a physical therapist can do. Seem to have roughly the same benefits.

BUT, that subluxation is utter fucking bullshit, and thats the part I think a lot of people associate with chiropractics.

[–]facaDe577 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

chiropracty(?) dabbles a bit into pseudoscience, some chiropractors go beyond physical therapy. not all, though.

[–]nobody2000 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chiropractic education exists on a spectrum from scientific methods to quackery. Research your doctor's credentials before going to see one. Generally speaking, if they went to school in the northeast US, you're good. Southern or western US has a few schools rooted in homeopathy and pseudoscience.

My old chiropractor was a well known diagnostician when it came to seeing patients and looking at xrays, mris, and cat scans. He advocated for vaccination and refused to adjust individuals who had questionable scans because they needed an allopathic doctor.

[–]boogiemanspud 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chiropractors are great. This guy in the video is fucked. I don't know any legitimate chiropractor who would even work on a baby.

[–]Jrook 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

they certainly would be more gentle, you would think.

[–]wysinwyg 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You'd probably feel better after going to a masseuse too.

[–]travisestes -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you going to say masseuses are BS and do nothing as well?

[–]wysinwyg 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No

[–]phx-au 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actual real science suggests that chiro manipulations help with lower back pain more than a placebo.

Then again, so does therapeutic massage.

So I guess the question is, who would you prefer performing a deep tissue massage - someone with an understanding of the science of the various bits of your body, or someone that has been trained the root cause of all disease is spinal misalignment undetected by modern science?

[–]roidoid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What wonderful anecdotal evidence you have. But seriously, chiropractic is quackery. It's not that none of it works, it's that a lot of their claims are bollocks.

[–]boxsterguy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are you a newborn?

Also, what you want is not a chiroquacktor but a physical therapist. Both will "adjust" your back, but where the chiroquacktor will give you bullshit about "subluxations" and schedule you for 3-times-a-week appointments for the rest of your life, the PT will give you strengthening exercises to do to prevent issues in the future.

[–]travisestes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I guess I just haven't been to a bad one. I've always gone to one's with medical degrees. They usually do physical therapy as well.

[–]boxsterguy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's no such thing as a chiropractor with a medical degree. Nobody would spend the time and money on that and still call themselves a "chiropractor".

There's a "Doctorate in Chiropractic" (DC), but that's categorized as "alternative medicine" and is not a medical degree.

[–]travisestes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I had a chiropractor who could prescribe medicine (pain killers, muscle relaxers, etc). Can't only doctors do that?

[–]boxsterguy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All sweeping generalizations are false.

I'm sure there exist people stupid enough to waste a medical degree on chiropractic. Or people smart enough to con a population. There may even exist areas where non-doctor chiropractors are legally allowed to prescribe medicine. But in general, most chiropractors do not have true medical degrees and are con men at best, quacks at worst.

[–]CapWasRight 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I mean, that's just a massage at that point. The problem is when chiropractors claim dicking around with your joints will cure your asthma or your cancer.

[–]travisestes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will readily agree with you that claims outside the scope of helping with joint issues is BS.

[–]aliceismalice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just did some research on chiropractic offices in the area and quite a few of them claimed to treat ADHD, allergies, asthma, constipation, and ear infections. Uhhhhhh.......

[–]Seicair 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Depends on the chiropractor. Most of them are total quacks, some rare few are semi-legitimate practitioners similar to physical therapists. You're better off going to a real physical therapist though.

90%+ of things they claim to be able to treat, chiropractic performs no better than placebo.

[–]speak-zero 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are imagining any long term benefit, yes. Sham chiropractic works just as well. This is called placebo, and it is a very powerful bias for why you can't rely on anecdotal patient results for medicine. Unfortunately that's ALL chiropractic evidence. Ask them. They use the word anecdotal like it isn't a bad thing. It's shamefully unscientific and not really medicine. It's the reason blood letting and other bogus treatments lasted so long. Because people think, "surely I'm not imagining this."

[–]shouldbebabysitting 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Surely I'm not imagining this

Or you could have gone to a licensed physical therapist that would have given the same results without any quackery or potential danger.

[–]The_Gage 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would it have felt better if you'd hadn't gone to a chiropractor? In other words, would it have just healed on its own?

[–]skibumatbu 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Um. No.

First, all kids undergo an exam by a pediatrician that looks similar (just much slower than that one). They basically test all joints to make sure things aren't dislocated and are moving properly. They do this at every appointment until the kid is old enough to move around on their own.

Second, I've had bulging and herniated disks in my back. A surgeon recommended fusing my lower back. This would have resulted in months of me out of commission on my back and lots of pain. Instead I went to a chiro. He's the trainer for the local NFL team. In his office he loosened the muscles and made sure the joints move as they are supposed to. He also showed me how to stretch and some PT to do when I work out. In 3 months the herniations and bulges were mostly gone. The point... a good chiro doesn't just crack your back. Back aches can be a symptom of a different problem and not the root cause. They know how the muscles and joints all work in that area. They can look at how you move/walk/stand and help to identify the root cause.

[–]downloadacar 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm a physician (M.D.) and agree with the /u/Bingo_banjo that a lot of Chiropractors are charlatans. However the good ones do awesome stuff for people with back pain like you had.

But this neonate didn't have back pain. And the newborn examination that my Pediatrician colleagues perform is not 'basically this but slower.' And even if it was, the velocity of that kid's head movement matters.

[–]Mercuryblade18 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Brain hemorrhage is a bad thing. Don't shake the baby.

[–]judokalinker 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He also showed me how to stretch and some PT to do when I work out.

You mean he told you what a physiotherapist would?

[–]skibumatbu 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yes. He saw that the issue with my back was primarily due to tight muscles in my leg. So by loosening them it straightened my back. To ensure that the nerves in my back weren't pinched we did a number of simple movement exercises whose aim was to ensure that things moved how they were supposed to.

[–]grammer_polize 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i had a herniated disk, got an xray, guy immediately said i should have back surgery. i was 23. i was like fuuuck that, started doing light yoga, and trying to sit properly, i can now do all my normal activities (golf, snowboard, soccer) without any debilitating issues. i'm pretty sure the guy was just trying to make money, pretty fucked up.

[–]jrice441100 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish I could give you a million upvotes

[–]AmIStonedOrJustStupi -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (23子コメント)

People need to realize what charlatans that chiropractors are. Its a pretty sick scam

Chiropractic isn't a scam. I have a bad back and need it desperately sometimes. Most of the time what I need is core exercises and stretching to prevent my back issues, but there are those times when I tweak my back that only the chiropractor helps.

It also helps babies with colick.

[–]VladTheSoviet 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Please read this article. It clearly states that based on all studies done, none have effectively proven any benefit of chiropractic adjustment on babies with colic.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1742-1241.2009.02133.x/full

[–]AmIStonedOrJustStupi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Without reading the article, didn't I provide one?

[–]VladTheSoviet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not a peer-reviewed one with legitimate backing medical sources. It actually is mentioned in the article I posted.

[–]DemonDog47 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Chiropractors have been tainted by homeopathic "doctors" calling themselves chiropractors

[–]Neri25 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually no, the profession itself has had a long, sordid relationship with quackery to the point that sorting out the bullshit from the "hey this actually works" is something of a slog and too hard to represent in a snappy summation.

[–]boxsterguy 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chiropractors have been tainted by chiropractors.

[–]eshinn -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chiropractors have taint.

[–]hoosierstateofmind 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the real answer. However they make up probably 40%+ of "chiropractors" now. Even the good chiros should be treated more like a massage therapist than a doctor. They're a supplement not a be all end all.

[–]Realik 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope its all actually not science based medicine

[–]CormanT 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]AmIStonedOrJustStupi -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting article.

In two recent studies cited in the Mirtz et al. article, 98% of chiropractors believed that “most” or “many” diseases were caused by spinal misalignments 

This is disturbing.

That said, no physical therapist has done what a chiropractor does, and no physical therapist provides the short- to medium-term relief that chiropractic does. THAT said, no chiropractor has given me the long-term plan of prevention that a physical therapist has.

And that's how I view the two. The chiropractor gets me back on my feet when things go awry, but the PT is better at keeping me on my feet.

[–]Timedoutsob 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Scam is a very subjective word. I think the point people are generally trying to put across here is that Chiropractic practices are not founded in science even though some of their practices may in some circumstances appear to have beneficial therapeutic effects. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic_controversy_and_criticism

[–]AmIStonedOrJustStupi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. I'm just fighting against the blanket statements against it.

[–]forgiveness 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I took my colicky kid to a chiro out of desperation. My poor baby just screamed and screamed, every waking moment, and slept barely 20 minutes at a time.

Ironically, he sat alert and quiet on my lap in the waiting room for the 45 mins it took for the doc to call us in. She cranked his head, just like in that gif, there was an enormous CRACK and my poor baby screamed like a girl in a horror movie. I near shit my pants and burst into tears. He did calm down quickly though, and did sleep through the night that night.

It wasn't a miracle cure though. He still screamed a fair share, until a few weeks later I discovered something critical about the nipples on the bottles I was using. I switched to orthodontic nipples, and that helped enormously.

I never forgot that chiro visit though...I thought she'd broken his neck. Jesus!

Edit: nvm fixed it

:)

[–]chewp911 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You should probably share what the actual solution was, not just the parts that didn't work. I imagine there are countless others living through that hell.

[–]brilliantjoe 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

  • Hey guys I can't get my Windows 7 to boot up. - Poster A
  • Hey man, I have the exact same problem, any progress? - Posters B-Z
  • Figured it out. Poster A.

Fuck you poster A.

[–]BabyNinjaJesus 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

her comment reminds me of when you get a weird error on your pc and you find one lonely guy in a forum having the same error from like 2008, and its just two posts, him describing your exact error and another one where he says "nvm fixed it"

[–]chewp911 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]forgiveness 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

NP, done.

[–]eshinn 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]CCNeverender 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chiropractice itself is not a scam, however, many chiropractors would have you believe that their procedures can cure diseases, and other ailments, which is not true. Penn and Teller did an episode on chiropractic medicine that talks about the benefits and the problems with the field. Here's a link to episode. Part 1 and Part 2

[–]AmIStonedOrJustStupi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll watch them later, but even without watching them, your statement appears true. No objection here.

[–]Realik 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is. Science has not shown it yo be useful

[–]AngryData 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Many chiropractors are just expert physical therapists. While I disagree with what some of them do, most of them are not trying to pass bullshit on to you. It would be like calling dietitians and nutritionists a scam because a few of them try and pass those scam diet programs.

[–]thiskirkthatkirk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Physical therapists are physical therapists, and chiropractors are chiropractors. The education is different, the philosophy is different, and the licensure is different. I don't want to make this and us vs. them thing, but as a physical therapist I do not want the lines being blurred between my profession and another.

[–]AngryData 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ive never met a chiropractor that didn't have a degree in physical therapy or atleast one medical PhD.

[–]thiskirkthatkirk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, so then they have a degree in both. Calling a chiropractor a physical therapist is still wrong, as they are completely separate degrees with completely separate educational processes.

I'm not saying you can't pursue an education in each, because obviously you can. I did have one professor that also had a chiropractic degree, so they are out there, but they are still entirely different licenses.

[–]Flik 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This! I'm entering my last year in a DPT program, and while I cannot speak for Chiropractic programs, my education has been very focused on evidence based practice. Any treatment or intervention plan must be based on strategies that have been tested and analyzed. The majority of my school placements have been in acute and post-acute hospital settings, where we are under the supervision of qualified physiotherapists, and we work alongside physicians, nurses, occupational therapists..ect.

While there may be some crossover between the professions, (particularly in the MsK area:manipulations and mobilizations for example), I believe the way the two professions handle patients are fundamentally different. Like /u/thiskirkthatkirk already stated, I don't want the lines being blurred either.

[–]thiskirkthatkirk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, like you said, I am not passing any judgement on chiropractors here, but it's just not correct to say that one is the other. Also, I don't actually believe that most chiropractors have DPTs, as this person also claimed. I know that there are practitioners out there that are licensed in both, but to say that it's anything more than a small percentage is probably far from true. I just get a little irritated when people play fast and loose with the facts about something like that.

Really, the professor that I had who ended up also getting a chiropractic license did it just so he could order radiographs (which we should be able to do, although that's a whole different discussion).

[–]RedheadsAreNinjas -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

*some chiropractors! Many are fantastic and very well educated in their practice. This guy though... this guy is a fucking idiot.

[–]nobody2000 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If nothing else, chiropractors are skilled at diagnosing ailments related to the spine. In most states, a chiropractors diagnosis will be enough to get you a referral to an allopathic specialist.

[–]danisnotfunny 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not saying that doing this to a baby is acceptable, but hasn't it been well established that chiropractors do actually help people?

[–]stginger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My father was a chiropractor for 30+ years, has a doctorate and ran his own practice. Time and time again i've seen his patients return for adjustments because the pain relief they experiences was real. I've been adjusted by him dozens-hundreds of times and I experience a marked relief wherever the pain originates. I had horrible tension after a bad event in my life, most of it mentally caused, but the adjustments helped enormously. Just my two cents, but growing up with it as part of my life, i've always seen it as alternative and preventive medicine. It's also covered by every major insurance carrier in the nation.

[–]GoiterGlitter 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shaking the baby's head like that makes it incredibly likely to die. Shaken Baby Syndrome is not fucking joke.

[–]amgoingtohell 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

people need to realize what charlatans that chiropractors are.

Good thing the guy in the video is an orthopedic then

[–]boatliker88 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

this isnt chiropracty, its an exam to make sure the babies joints work..

[–]razorbladecherry 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My daughter has been through 3 cranio sacro therapy sessions with a chiropractor and it has helped. We were struggling with her latch during breastfeeding and the chiropractor adjusted the plates in her upper palatte, adjusted her jaw to loosen it so she could open it fully, and adjusted the plates in her skull so they're in the proper position to grow into their proper places, among other things. My kid was uncomfortable and unhappy and she showed a change within 3 days. A year ago, i would have called it crap. But, now, i believe it works. It's nothing like what's in that gif though. It's closer to a massage; gentle touch and gentle movement of the parts of her body. Her latch was so bad, my nipples were raw and every time i fed her, i was in pain. Now, i'm pain free and she nurses so much easier, and she's HAPPIER. That's what is important to me and my husband.

[–]TheDirtyFresh 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That episode was all I could think of with this clip. Starting watching again from season 1.

[–]Overlord_Prime 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I came here to say this. One of the best lines in the whole Bullshit! series.