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[–]CHINHLBadgerisbest 145 ポイント146 ポイント  (70子コメント)

I'm upvoting this purely for more Ice Girl Controversy.

EDIT: I'm also upvote all of your comments that promote more controversy.

[–]VANSkateNHLjobin_segan 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The discourse on here when it comes to this topic is the equivalent of watching fox news talk about white privilege

[–]PHINHLmcninsanity 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

well I mean the demographics for reddit is already extremely male, add in hockey its pretty much white make city

[–]CHINHLBadgerisbest 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I actually have just avoided watching any of those videos, I can't tell if it would make me laugh or horrified.

[–]LAKAltNHLBW4LL 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (55子コメント)

Can't wait to come back to this thread later and see all the top comments down voted to hell and replaced by comments about sexism and rape culture by flairless users.

[–]DETNHLMrEgg 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (40子コメント)

Yeah, people seem to forget that the ice girls do this by choice. They're not held at gunpoint to sweep the ice and wear those outfits.

[–]CBJNHLbuckeye_baker 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (6子コメント)

They do it by choice. But, I remember going to my first hockey game when I was a teenager and the only representation of women I saw were half naked with all the men around me catcalling. Just like the first NFL game I went to the only representation of women I saw were half naked.

I know a lot of the women who do it love it. And it isn't like this is the biggest issue in the world. But, that's just my experience with it.

[–]derpaderp1 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Maybe they like the attention? Or are using it similar to nfl cheerleaders as a stepping stone to a modeling career. Surely they don't hate it. Or they wouldn't do it. It's a very niche job / career and surely people wouldn't do it by force

[–]CHIAlt1NHLnickel_1988 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is a valid point. Some women do choose on their own to do it. But the concept of Ice Girls is still sexist.

[–]TBLOld2NHLthisguy130 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is a difference between the sexes. On the whole, women aren't going to be as attracted to any man, scraping the ice, regardless of what they're wearing, as they are to the players, in uniform, showing off their impressive skills. Conversely, men, on the whole, are going to be attracted to attractive women in flattering outfits, and some men are going to feel the NHL game day experience is better for having Ice Girls.

Whether or not that makes this sexist is up to you. I think there's a difference between gender differences and putting in as many extras as you can to create a fun arena experience, and sexism. (Discussions about specific outfits, etc. aside)

[–]derpaderp1 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

How? Because a woman is scooping ice up?

[–]CHIAlt1NHLnickel_1988 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because they have to be wearing next to nothing to do it while the male ice crew members wear track pants and jackets zipped up to their chins.

[–]WHLTriCityAmericansPNWQuakesFan -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A search for "LA Kings women's hockey" turns up 1.8 million hits on google. Searching "LA Kings ice girls" turns up 8.3. This is a problem. This is a serious problem.

[–]DETNHLFlowah 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Let's not pretend that the job market is anything in which people have their pick of employment and the ability to negotiate "No, I don't want to wear that and I don't need your job to live."

I have no idea what percentage of them actually enjoy it and what percentage do not. But it's more than possible that some of them "choose" to do this job the same way some people "choose" to work two shit jobs to provide for their family.

[–]TBLOld2NHLthisguy130 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ice Girls, at least when my sister was approached to be one when we were younger, are dramatically underpaid. It is a job in which you are paid peanuts because (even in Tampa Bay) the supply of capable workers far exceeds demand. Women are not choosing to be an Ice Girl because it pays better than their alternative, they're sacrificing potential earnings for the experience and prestige of being an Ice Girl.

[–]derpaderp1 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Do you know what nfl cheerleaders get paid? It's worse than minimum. If that's what is left in the job market there are more issues than unemployment.

[–]DETNHLFlowah 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I mean, the job market in this country is clearly not what you could call "good" for the employees.

[–]derpaderp1 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well of course not. But if a highly selective job that requires skating and somewhat good looks isn't exactly easy to get is what these girls are "forced to take" then something else is going on. I doubt they make beyond minimum.

[–]DETNHLFlowah 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

then something else is going on.

Yeah, the job market sucks dick.

[–]derpaderp1 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep because when the only jobs left are those for the gorgeous fit girls to shoe themselves into modeling careers, the job market sure must suck

[–]PITOld1NHLsitsthewind 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

if a highly selective job that requires skating

Does being an ice girl require skating ability? Wasn't there something about the Sharks not requiring their ice girls to be able to skate?

[–]derpaderp1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What? Their job is to skate around on the ice..... And even if they don't...? Have to know how to skate? It's still a very selective job

[–]DETNHLMrEgg -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And i dont know what being an ice girl pays, but if they were so opposed to wearing that outfit im sure McDicks would be able to hire

[–]CHINHLjustindaniel 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's my exact thought with people shit talking strippers and porn stars. No one is forcing them to do this.

[–]NJDNHLDevsMetsGmen 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's not really an appropriate analogy. Those are industries based around sexuality, so appealing to that side of your nature is logical.

Hockey is a sport. It's supposed to appeal to your competitive and physical side. Interjecting with ice girl objects seems a bit like pandering to the lowest common denominator of hockey fans. Fisticuffs, beer, and women! Come one, come all! And maybe notice a hockey game somewhere in the middle!

If you go to a youth football game, there's a good chance a youth cheer squad is there, also. Cheerleaders engage the crowd to interact with the action. With hockey, having this kind of "entertainment" just seems desperate and tacked on. I've always felt like hockey is a really, really inclusive community, so even as a straight male it is awkward to see something like the content of OP's gif.

You want to put some women out there to clean up the ice? That's fine, there are some damn good skaters out there. How does dressing them like Hooters waitresses make them better at cleaning the ice, though?

TL;DR: It's not about the girls choosing to do this, it's about the teams choosing to let them.

[–]NJDNHLUnrelatedComa 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fisticuffs, beer, and women! Come one, come all! And maybe notice a hockey game somewhere in the middle!

and hockey definitely doesnt want money from those people. it should survive solely by die-hard hockey fans who have decades of hockey fandom experience and have over the years spent more money on knockoff jerseys than the price tag on a used honda. because thats a good business model that really appeals to my desire to be part of an elite group of tens of thousands of people. it all really validates the idea that im better than those other people that arent real fans.

[–]PHINHLmcninsanity -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

if they don't want money from those people then why are ice girls so popular

[–]NYRNHLseeking_perhaps 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he was being sarcastic.

[–]CHINHLjustindaniel 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Maybe I'm just playing devils advocate here. Hockey is a sport, but for individual teams its a business. Businesses will do particular things to boost sales. If this boosts sales then teams have every right to do it. It's also a free country and if a woman doesn't mind skating around the ice shoveling snow in a skimpy outfit she has every right to do so.

[–]NJDNHLDevsMetsGmen 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I just want to be clear that I am in no way questioning the women who take the role. They're free to do whatever they want.

I would love to see the business plan which states the added value of these girls, though. If anything, it keeps people in their seats during breaks in play where they might otherwise move towards concessions. It would take some really creative books to justify the "need" for this on a P&L or balance sheet or whatever. Maybe they take a lower rate than alternative workers because they're hoping the exposure pays off? That's about the only positive impact I could conjure up off the top of my head.

[–]WSHAltNHLmaveric101 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A TV/ice sweep break isn't really long enough to go get concessions without missing any hockey. If someone is willing to miss hockey to get concessions, they're probably willing to miss seeing some cleavage from 80 feet away.

[–]SJSNHLlorderunion 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ice girls are definitely the first thing that comes to my mind when thinking about buying hockey tickets. It's not like it's the 21st century and I get nude/revealing photos in seconds on my phone.

It may have made sense back in the 70s or 80s, but it's just boneheaded now.

[–]1056293847 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

People do a lot of morally dubious things by choice...what's your point?

[–]DETNHLMrEgg 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is being an ice girl really morally dubious?

[–]BUFNHLSkyline_BNR34 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Choice, partly true, they are also getting paid to do it.

[–]WSHOld3NHLRSquared 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I wonder how much, I know that NFL cheerleaders make bupkis.

[–]NSHPickNHLBouncyMouse 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like I remember reading somewhere that it ain't much.

[–]IIHFCanada2014bustabluth 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not very much apparently. source.

[–]VancouverMillionairesOLDNHLdunegig -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Ice Girls are one thing, but the cameraman focussing closely on a very specific part of their bodies is what skeeves me out.

[–]PITNHLsabreteeth 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm not mad at the ice girls, but I'm allowed to find them unnecessary. I used to feel cute enough walking into the arena with a jersey and jeans on, and now I have to compete with these part-time models with shovels. It's not even a feminist argument, it's just that hockey was one of the few places left where I don't have to be barraged with sexy people. I mean, how would you feel if movie theater ushers were replaced with shirtless Hugh Jackmans? Try to feel good-looking on dinner dates with that in your periphery.

[–]WSHNHLFun0nnABun 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why do you need to compete with anyone? What are you competing for?

[–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]WSHNHLFun0nnABun 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I'm sorry, but not really. Should a guy feel like he needs to dress to impress because there's a bunch of rich and sometimes VERY attractive athletes there?

    [–]Parkingguy11 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    HahahahahahahahahahahahahAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahHahahahahahahahahahahahah... What does that even mean?

    [–]HartfordWhalersOLDNHLKingTalkieTiki 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What was the comment? they deleted it

    [–]WSHNHLFun0nnABun 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She said it was human nature to feel competitive with ice girls. I mean I sort of get it, but who the fuck cares? Men get objectified too. It's worse with women, but we aren't talking advertising or general media. It's hockey. Fuck it. Get your beer and popcorn, get fucked up, and enjoy the game.

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]PITNHLsabreteeth -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      How about, don't tell me how to feel? I really don't need this explained to me, I know why they exist and I'm allowed to find them unnecessary. Y'all are missing the point and taking me too literally if you believe I actually think my guy's going to leave me for an ice girl.

      I deleted my other comments because I started talking about feelings in a thread where everyone's talking about boobs, and it was rife for pitchforking.

      Gonna get skewered as an evil jezebel feminazi here, but what you're doing right now is a textbook example of mansplaining. Jussayin'.

      [–]BOSPoohBearNHL-2crazy_canucklehead 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Why should they? Theyre wearing more clothes than normal in this.

      [–]ANAOldNHLDarkwingDeke 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I'm here for the other controversy... 2/3 are wearing disney outfits.

      [–]ANAOldNHLiminsideabox 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      those traitorous hussies!