WendyMcElroy.com

A Bit About Me Personally

Hello, my fellow WendyMcElroy.com forum members! Since this is the subforum entitled "On the Personal Side: Personal relationships, advice, mistakes, regrets...", I thought I'd share a bit about myself with you. Just so you know, the common name people in so-called "real life" know me by is Jamie Michelle. James Redford is my legal name, and I still use it as a *nom de plume*, since it is the name I originally started publishing my sociological articles under. In my below Tumblr blog you can see pictures of me, including one of me with my boyfriend Len:

Jamie Michelle, http://jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com , http://wayback.archive.org/web/20141014040526/http://jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com , http://www.webcitation.org/6TJE5pia4 , http://archive.today/Tz8Yv , http://megalodon.jp/2014-1014-1306-58/jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com/ .

In the the following links, you can read an erotic short story by me:

Jamie Michelle, "The Erotic Adventures of a Sissy Named Jamie, Part I: A Sissy in Need Is a Sissy Indeed", Feb. 19, 2008, http://www.webcitation.org/6TZfRaFyd , http://archive.today/SrdV1 , http://megalodon.jp/2014-1025-0831-15/archive.today/SrdV1 .

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Since the universe is deterministic we have already read your story.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Since the universe is deterministic we have already read your story.

There is nothing about determinism which implies that--quite the contrary. In fact, that is why Quantum Mechanics cannot be fully predicted, even though it is fully deterministic and indeed more deterministic than classical mechanics (since with the Hamilton-Jacobi Equation--fullest expression of Newtonian mechanics--one gets infinite caustics beyond which it is not possible to predict what occurs, even in principle): because most of the data required to make such an exact prediction happen in parallel universes which we are unable to have full information about.

Likewise, even with a single-universe view, a mortal human mind would still be working with incomplete data, and so would be unable to derive every event of the universe. In knowing the laws of physics, he could accurately predict the broad features of the universe, but without diverging to superintelligence--and that superintelligence itself diverging to infinite intelligence--he could not know all the infinite events that would occur in the universe.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

If quantum mechanics cannot be predicted then the end of the universe cannot recreate and play out the universe.

If the universe is deterministic then once the candle is lit the dinner is already served.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

If quantum mechanics cannot be predicted then the end of the universe cannot recreate and play out the universe.

As I said, that requires surperintelligence diverging to infinite intelligence.

If the universe is deterministic then once the candle is lit the dinner is already served.

Sure.

But human free-will is still perfectly allowed. Indeed, the very notion of free-will requires strict determinism, otherwise what one is proposing is just random events occurring, uncaused by any thing. In other words, pure magic in its most absurd sense.

Where almost all people go wrong in thinking about this matter is that they have not thought about it nearly deeply enough, for the simple reason that they don't know enough about physics in order to actually have deep thoughts about this issue.

In Quantum Mechanics, when a single particle has the ability to take, e.g., two paths, both paths will be taken. But these two different paths are taken in parallel universes.

And where this relates back to human free-will is that this particle divergence (i.e., a single particle taking two [or even more] different paths) is actually produced within that person's own body, i.e., it is not determined by the larger state of the universe, but instead is something that is purely a result of that person's own purely local Quantum-Mechanical system (particularly within their brain).

It really is a result of something that occurs strictly and truly within that person's own body (particularly within their mind, i.e., the operating portion of their brain--but of course, signals are sent by all the sense organs, and hence these have effects upon the brain, and thus also the choices it makes). The larger state of the universe does not determine it.

What could free-will possibly mean if not that?

What I, Prof. Frank J. Tipler, and other akin philosophers mean when we say that one has free-will is there is actually something within that person which is truly and literally the genesis of their actions, i.e., that their actions derive from within themselves. That is, that the larger state of the universe does not determine their actions.

Physics tells us that human free-will most definitely does exist, and it exists in the only way it could logically exist. It exists in the sense that (1) the future truly is wide open to us (so long as any paths do not violate physical law), and (2) our choices truly do originate within ourselves and are not determined by anything other than what is within ourselves (other than granting that the universe exists, since existence existing is required in order for the very notion of "choice" to have any meaning).

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

But human free-will is still perfectly allowed. Indeed, the very notion of free-will requires strict determinism, otherwise what one is proposing is just random events occurring, uncaused by any thing. In other words, pure magic in its most absurd sense.

There would not be free will in that case since in a deterministic system the outcome is already "preordained". You're not making a decision you're brain is simply bouncing billiard balls around and that rerunning history to the same point will always result in the same decision. So I will always decide to eat corn instead of peas.

As I said, that requires surperintelligence diverging to infinite intelligence.

You apparently have a jaundiced grasp of infinity.

What I, Prof. Frank J. Tipler, and other akin philosophers mean when we say that one has free-will is there is actually something within that person which is truly and literally the genesis of their actions, i.e., that their actions derive from within themselves. That is, that the larger state of the universe does not determine their actions.

The human body is not an independent system from the universe. Our bodies are formed from the matter in the universe that derives from the same determinism that is the universe. So you have a deterministic simulation that runs a deterministic simulation. It does not matter. The human is not independent of the universe. They are affected by outside elements all the time.

Even IF the human is independent they are still deterministic. If the universe is deterministic and I run a pool table simulation programmed on a computer in that deterministic universe, the pool game will result in the same outcomes. Now I can restart that pool game on any machine and it will run deterministically and result in the same outcomes but it still is in the same deterministic universe.

Now you could argue that by the rules of mathematics that you can have mini deterministic subsystems by always following the same rules (that's why my shot on my end of a two play game plays out the same as on the other person's machine) but you're still dealing with determinism.

Simply put under determinism you have no true free will. The best you can argue is you have a subsystem of determinism.... but its STILL determinism.

The real question is, if we play the universe over again and get to this same point, is it possible for me to type something different? If not then there is no true free will, just private deterministic simulations... which BTW I don't agree with. Universe effects everyone.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Quote

But human free-will is still perfectly allowed. Indeed, the very notion of free-will requires strict determinism, otherwise what one is proposing is just random events occurring, uncaused by any thing. In other words, pure magic in its most absurd sense.

There would not be free will in that case since in a deterministic system the outcome is already "preordained". You're not making a decision you're brain is simply bouncing billiard balls around and that rerunning history to the same point will always result in the same decision. So I will always decide to eat corn instead of peas.

That's not the case in the least bit.

Since our bodies are Quantum-Mechanical systems, it is actually the multiversal state of our body which determines our actions.

But since a given state can diverge into two (or more) different states, it makes no logical sense to say what a given state will diverge to.

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As I said, that requires surperintelligence diverging to infinite intelligence.

You apparently have a jaundiced grasp of infinity.

If my view be jaundiced, it is nevertheless correct.

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What I, Prof. Frank J. Tipler, and other akin philosophers mean when we say that one has free-will is there is actually something within that person which is truly and literally the genesis of their actions, i.e., that their actions derive from within themselves. That is, that the larger state of the universe does not determine their actions.

The human body is not an independent system from the universe. ...

It is when it comes to such Quantum-Mechanical actions. Causality propagates at the speed of light. But the events that occur within a light-cone truly are undetermined by events outside of that light-cone.

... Our bodies are formed from the matter in the universe that derives from the same determinism that is the universe. So you have a deterministic simulation that runs a deterministic simulation. It does not matter. The human is not independent of the universe. They are affected by outside elements all the time.

No. See above. The fastest causality can propagate is at the speed of light. Anything outside of a light-cone can have no effect upon it.

Even IF the human is independent they are still deterministic. If the universe is deterministic and I run a pool table simulation programmed on a computer in that deterministic universe, the pool game will result in the same outcomes. ...

No, because in the multiverse, all results are obtained.

... Now I can restart that pool game on any machine and it will run deterministically and result in the same outcomes but it still is in the same deterministic universe.

See my previous statement.

Now you could argue that by the rules of mathematics that you can have mini deterministic subsystems by always following the same rules (that's why my shot on my end of a two play game plays out the same as on the other person's machine) but you're still dealing with determinism.

Again, see above.

Simply put under determinism you have no true free will. The best you can argue is you have a subsystem of determinism.... but its STILL determinism.

Not so, because not even God Himself can say what result will obtain within any particular universe given a particular quantum state.

All God knows is that all results will be obtained. But even God Himself cannot say what action you will take next. Except that He knows that you will choose all actions.

The real question is, if we play the universe over again and get to this same point, is it possible for me to type something different? ...

Yes, very much so. Everything gets typed.

However, there are probabilities involved in this. So some collections of universes are more dense in their results than other collections of universes.

... If not then there is no true free will, just private deterministic simulations... which BTW I don't agree with. Universe effects everyone.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

That's not the case in the least bit.

Since our bodies are Quantum-Mechanical systems, it is actually the multiversal state of our body which determines our actions.

But since a given state can diverge into two (or more) different states, it makes no logical sense to say what a given state will diverge to.

That simply is not true. You're playing both sides of the fence. Either will is deterministic or its not. Its not some special case where you can play the quantum mechanics card when you choose. Given that ALL things would be governed by the quantum rule. If quantum mechanics IS deterministic then our lack of understanding is irrelevant. And there is no proven multi-verse. What makes humans special they have some multiverse state. That's sailor moon science.

It is when it comes to such Quantum-Mechanical actions. Causality propagates at the speed of light. But the events that occur within a light-cone truly are undetermined by events outside of that light-cone.

Complete bunk. Events cannot occur in a vacuum that would mean the first event in that chain would have to be random. Even if the outside causes the first event in the chain the outside effected the chain. Again I can run a computer sim of a pool table that is deterministic but when that is played is determined by all the events going back to the big bang according to determinism. The sim is merely part of the whole. And again the sim IS DETERMINISTIC. The balls will always play out to the same place when struck the same way. Even in a closed deterministic case the outcome is still determinism. You state nothing here.

No. See above. The fastest causality can propagate is at the speed of light. Anything outside of a light-cone can have no effect upon it.

That would mean my comb is an independent system... clearly not the case. That would mean all in the universe is independent deterministic systems. And again SO WHAT. The sub systems are STILL deterministic. And if you claim they are independent then you are stuck defying causality since NO event can occur without a previous event. So those independent deterministic systems cannot occur independently.

No, because in the multiverse, all results are obtained.

There is no evidence there is any universe outside this one.

Not so, because not even God Himself can say what result will obtain within any particular universe given a particular quantum state.

The the universe cannot be deterministic. If understanding quantum mechanics requires infinite intellect and infinity is unobtainable then your premise cannot be proven. You haven't even proven quantum mechanics is not predictable without infinite intellect. could very well be we understand it in 100 years. False premise.

So your argument is that the universe IS deterministic BUT that its so complex none can understand it. Given this then there can never be this Omega point you argue about since no one can attain infinite intellect. If God can't do it then neither can some advanced humans.

Yes, very much so. Everything gets typed.

However, there are probabilities involved in this. So some collections of universes are more dense in their results than other collections of universes.

Ok you don't understand determinism. AND if this is so then the Omega point cannot "replay" history since as you state ALL will be typed... all outcomes occur and you can never know the outcome in advance. so the universe can never be replayed.

What is sounds like to me is you have a grab bag of responses to each separate objection but when you tie those together they are not logically consistent. You're not arguing a principle, you're dismissing objections and making it sound all "sciencey". This is in effect sophistry.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Jamie Michelle, http://jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com , http://wayback.archive.org/web/20141014040526/http://jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com , http://www.webcitation.org/6TJE5pia4 , http://archive.today/Tz8Yv , http://megalodon.jp/2014-1014-1306-58/jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com/ .

Am I missing something? Why the five different links to the same material?

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Am I missing something? Why the five different links to the same material?

Number of links == weight of authority.

</sarc>

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Quote

That's not the case in the least bit.

Since our bodies are Quantum-Mechanical systems, it is actually the multiversal state of our body which determines our actions.

But since a given state can diverge into two (or more) different states, it makes no logical sense to say what a given state will diverge to.

That simply is not true. You're playing both sides of the fence. Either will is deterministic or its not. Its not some special case where you can play the quantum mechanics card when you choose. Given that ALL things would be governed by the quantum rule. If quantum mechanics IS deterministic then our lack of understanding is irrelevant. And there is no proven multi-verse. What makes humans special they have some multiverse state. That's sailor moon science.

If Quantum Mechanics is true, then the multiverse's existence follows as a mathematically-unavoidable consequence. For the details, see Frank J. Tipler, The Physics of Immortality: Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead (New York, NY: Doubleday, 1994), pp. 483-488.

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It is when it comes to such Quantum-Mechanical actions. Causality propagates at the speed of light. But the events that occur within a light-cone truly are undetermined by events outside of that light-cone.

Complete bunk. Events cannot occur in a vacuum that would mean the first event in that chain would have to be random. Even if the outside causes the first event in the chain the outside effected the chain. Again I can run a computer sim of a pool table that is deterministic but when that is played is determined by all the events going back to the big bang according to determinism. The sim is merely part of the whole. And again the sim IS DETERMINISTIC. The balls will always play out to the same place when struck the same way. Even in a closed deterministic case the outcome is still determinism. You state nothing here.

In the multiverse, all events happen. But still causality is a strictly local phenomenon.

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No. See above. The fastest causality can propagate is at the speed of light. Anything outside of a light-cone can have no effect upon it.

That would mean my comb is an independent system... clearly not the case. That would mean all in the universe is independent deterministic systems. And again SO WHAT. The sub systems are STILL deterministic. And if you claim they are independent then you are stuck defying causality since NO event can occur without a previous event. So those independent deterministic systems cannot occur independently.

See above.

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No, because in the multiverse, all results are obtained.

There is no evidence there is any universe outside this one.

Quantum Mechanics has been confirmed by every experiment to date. And if Quantum Mechanics is true, then the multiverse's existence follows as a mathematically-unavoidable consequence. For the details, see Frank J. Tipler, The Physics of Immortality: Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead (New York, NY: Doubleday, 1994), pp. 483-488.

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Not so, because not even God Himself can say what result will obtain within any particular universe given a particular quantum state.

The the universe cannot be deterministic. If understanding quantum mechanics requires infinite intellect and infinity is unobtainable then your premise cannot be proven. You haven't even proven quantum mechanics is not predictable without infinite intellect. could very well be we understand it in 100 years. False premise.

You are not at all very good at expressing yourself, so if you have an actual point in your head regarding your foregoing statement you have been unable to articulate it.

So your argument is that the universe IS deterministic BUT that its so complex none can understand it. Given this then there can never be this Omega point you argue about since no one can attain infinite intellect. If God can't do it then neither can some advanced humans.

I have never put forward that argument.

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Yes, very much so. Everything gets typed.

However, there are probabilities involved in this. So some collections of universes are more dense in their results than other collections of universes.

Ok you don't understand determinism. AND if this is so then the Omega point cannot "replay" history since as you state ALL will be typed... all outcomes occur and you can never know the outcome in advance. so the universe can never be replayed.

Nothing about your above statement follows from anything. It's just random bare assertions.

What is sounds like to me is you have a grab bag of responses to each separate objection but when you tie those together they are not logically consistent. You're not arguing a principle, you're dismissing objections and making it sound all "sciencey". This is in effect sophistry.

You obviously haven't understood what I have posted, even though it was in clear English. I recommend that you stop worrying so much about arguing against something that you do not understand and instead actually educate yourself.

Regarding the multiverse, see David Deutsch, The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes--and Its Implications (London: Allen Lane The Penguin Press, 1997). Prof. Deutsch is the leading quantum physicist in the world and the inventor of the quantum computer, being the first person to mathematically describe the workings of such a device, and winner of the Institute of Physics' 1998 Paul Dirac Medal and Prize for his work.

For how free-will is physically allowed, see Chapter 7 of Frank J. Tipler, The Physics of Immortality: Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead (New York, NY: Doubleday, 1994).

See also my following resources:

James Redford, "The Physics of God and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), Sept. 10, 2012 (orig. pub. Dec. 19, 2011), 186 pp., doi:10.2139/ssrn.1974708, http://ssrn.com/abstract=1974708 , https://archive.org/details/ThePhysicsOfGodAndTheQuantumGravityTheoryOfEverything .

James Redford, "Video of Profs. Frank Tipler and Lawrence Krauss's Debate at Caltech: Can Physics Prove God and Christianity?", alt.sci.astro, Message-ID: jghev8tcbv02b6vn3uiq8jmelp7jijluqk[at sign]4ax[period]com , July 30, 2013, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.sci.astro/KQWt4KcpMVo , http://archive.today/a04w9 .

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Quote from: James Redford on October 24, 2014, 05:09:08 PM

Jamie Michelle, http://jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com , http://wayback.archive.org/web/20141014040526/http://jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com , http://www.webcitation.org/6TJE5pia4 , http://archive.today/Tz8Yv , http://megalodon.jp/2014-1014-1306-58/jamiemichelleblog.tumblr.com/ .

Am I missing something? Why the five different links to the same material?

Redundancy. Resources on the internet are often ephemeral.

Re: A Bit About Me Personally

Quote from: Bitjuggler on October 25, 2014, 05:45:16 PM

Am I missing something? Why the five different links to the same material?

Number of links == weight of authority. ::)

</sarc>

That is incorrect. Rather, it is for purposes of redundancy. Resources on the internet are often ephemeral.